Old 02-21-2021, 05:00 PM   #1
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Default v6.24rc4 - February 21 2021

v6.24rc4 - February 21 2021
  • * Includes branch: LV2
  • * Includes branch: razor editing
  • # Razor edit: fix erratic pasting of multiple envelope areas [p=2408763]
  • # Razor edit: split action and mouse modifier respect preference to crossfade on split
  • # Razor edits: respect "automatically show affected envelopes when moving edits across tracks" only after razor edit is complete [p=2407799]
This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 02-21-2021, 06:06 PM   #2
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Regular old copy item + AIs to track acting weird in RC3 & RC4.



Clean RC4, All Defaults,


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Old 02-21-2021, 07:22 PM   #3
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# Razor edit: support customizing mouse modifiers to initiate razor edit over media item edge
When Starting a razor edit from a media item edges mouse hit zone I feel like the razor edit edge should snap to the media item. I have to imagine that's what most people would expect. As it is now, it's really easy for the razor edit and media item edges to end up being off from each other by a small sliver if you're not zoomed in super close.

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Old 02-21-2021, 09:15 PM   #4
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When Starting a razor edit from a media item edges mouse hit zone I feel like the razor edit edge should snap to the media item. I have to imagine that's what most people would expect. As it is now, it's really easy for the razor edit and media item edges to end up being off from each other by a small sliver if you're not zoomed in super close.

I came up against this a few months ago.

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Old 02-21-2021, 09:18 PM   #5
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The ability to snap media items to each other on same track while also not snapping Razor Edits to media items (and the inverse of that combination) are not possible because there's no matrix yet for Razor Edit snapping.
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Old 02-22-2021, 05:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
The ability to snap media items to each other on same track while also not snapping Razor Edits to media items (and the inverse of that combination) are not possible because there's no matrix yet for Razor Edit snapping.
yes, explicit snapping rules for Item, AI, and RE snap would be great.
yesterday i finally realized why my AI sometimes "drift" away from my items when i'm moving them separately: AI ends snap to grid lines, while items do not. i'd like both of them (and RE endpoints, edit: while in motion) to not snap to the grid line.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=249783

i might be missing an AI snap setting somewhere other than the snap settings, but i doubt it.
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Old 02-22-2021, 05:23 AM   #7
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# Razor edits: respect "automatically show affected envelopes when moving edits across tracks" only after razor edit is complete [p=2407799]
this is working fine for me, i hope it's a good solution for non-media-lane envelope users. thank you!
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Old 02-22-2021, 07:10 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
The ability to snap media items to each other on same track while also not snapping Razor Edits to media items (and the inverse of that combination) are not possible because there's no matrix yet for Razor Edit snapping.
Doesn't (Alt+L) 'Snap/Grid Settings', select 'Snap RE to Media Items' do the trick? Then set Mouse Mod 'Arrange View; Ctrl+Shift+Right drag' to 'Razor Edit (ignoring snap)' if you want snap-free RE while snap is enabled.
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Old 02-22-2021, 07:12 AM   #9
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# Razor edit: do not allow moving across tracks if the edit would cause all envelope areas to be discarded
this is in regards to rc3: to be honest i'd rather have the option of being able to shed AI by RE-dropping media items from 1 track to another, if there is no corresponding FX on the target track. it feels unexpectedly jerky to have RE movements disallowed.

note that track params (pan, volume, etc) never experience this, because the params are always there, waiting to be engaged. due to this, it comes as a surprise when an RE suddenly "sticks" because it contains an AI from a unique FX.

i see 3 optional answers to this:

1- disallow movement (current)
2- discard envelopes
3- propagate FX and AI from source to target upon RE release

in my opinion, 3 is the most valuable, but i'd also use option 2 from time to time.

however, if we're definitely going in the direction of 1 (disallow), here's some inconsistent behavior: tracks with multiple non-overlapping AIs seem to override this changelog's described behavior.

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Old 02-22-2021, 08:25 AM   #10
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this seems a bit clunky!

1 item is included in the RE , and the RE envelopes still move in same track. Would make more sense if this is not allowed no? if i want to move a lane area i select just a lane area , not an item too.

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Old 02-22-2021, 08:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinGShore View Post
When Starting a razor edit from a media item edges mouse hit zone I feel like the razor edit edge should snap to the media item. I have to imagine that's what most people would expect. As it is now, it's really easy for the razor edit and media item edges to end up being off from each other by a small sliver if you're not zoomed in super close.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
note that track params (pan, volume, etc) never experience this, because the params are always there, waiting to be engaged. due to this, it comes as a surprise when an RE suddenly "sticks" because it contains an AI from a unique FX.
I thought about that when i just read the changelog, but i think reaper don't count with the track params when not visible on the target.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:33 AM   #13
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I think I missed this happening!
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
i think reaper don't count with the track params when not visible on the target.
for example, my pan envelopes are never active/visible, but REs containing pan AIs can move seamlessly across the project. i like this a LOT, please don't change it!
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:46 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
for example, my pan envelopes are never active/visible, but REs containing pan AIs can move seamlessly across the project. i like this a LOT, please don't change it!
i am not sure if this is what is happening. but you have 2 other modes!


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Old 02-22-2021, 08:49 AM   #16
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I think I missed this happening!
not only you
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:55 AM   #17
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Issue: the envelope data after the drop is not what it should be.


1- On the 2nd track, it shows Osc 1 FM envelope which is settled to 0%. Inside the synth, FM is settled to 0%, too.

2 - I drop the FX envelope on the 2nd track, and now... the envelope is settled to 45,35% or the patch of synth of the 1st track is the same patch than the synth of the 2nd track!







Plus, when we drag/drop or copy/past envelope item, no points should be created outside the envelope item.




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Old 02-22-2021, 08:57 AM   #18
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IMO it would be nice if clicking (or double clicking like for deleting notes in midi editor) inside an RE could reset the area. It allows less mouse travelling when we want reset an RE edit that we did in the wrong place or not intensionally.

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Old 02-22-2021, 09:13 AM   #19
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2 - I drop the FX envelope on the 2nd track, and now... the envelope is settled to 45,35% or the patch of synth of the 1st track is the same patch than the synth of the 2nd track!
I'm not able to reproduce that. Do you see the same behavior with built-in fx?
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:13 AM   #20
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" IMO it would be nice if clicking (or double clicking like for deleting notes in midi editor) inside an RE could reset the area. It allows less mouse travelling when we want reset an RE edit that we did in the wrong place or not intensionally."

+ 1000
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:20 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
" IMO it would be nice if clicking (or double clicking like for deleting notes in midi editor) inside an RE could reset the area. It allows less mouse travelling when we want reset an RE edit that we did in the wrong place or not intensionally."

+ 1000
This already exists. Just set your mouse modifier for razor edits left click to clear razor edits. I can’t remember if it was in the menu, or if I pointed it to the action.
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:31 AM   #22
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Thx you. "remove one area".
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:40 AM   #23
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Thx you. "remove one area".
plus one! "remove all" here! works great ! Thank you!
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:45 AM   #24
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I'm not able to reproduce that. Do you see the same behavior with built-in fx?
Yes:

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Old 02-22-2021, 09:46 AM   #25
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REs draw strangely when they end on gridlines. the ants seem to draw 1 pixel further than the RE drawbox ends. see here, when REs originate from the left to the right: a glimmer of the item/AI is visible beyond the draw-box.



thumbnail below

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Old 02-22-2021, 09:52 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
plus one! "remove all" here! works great ! Thank you!
There is a little issue for me with the mouse cursor with "remove one area" or "remove areas".
Because, when the cursor is in on the razor area, this cursor can make us believe that we can only remove the area!

It would be possible to have the beautiful razor cursor, instead, please?


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Old 02-22-2021, 12:01 PM   #27
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I have to thank everyone involved in RE ! it's almost there ! =) wawaweee!
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Yes:
I don't see anything unexpected in that screencap. The new reasurround scale Y envelope being created with a default baseline value of 0.5, which is the correct default value for that envelope. The copied automation item has the correct envelope value of 0.245.

The only unexpected behavior I see is in this screencap:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=35
... where the osc 1 fm amount envelope is created with an unexpected baseline value of 43.5%.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:14 PM   #29
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This seems not good behaviour!
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:16 PM   #30
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This seems not good behaviour!
What's the problem there?
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:22 PM   #31
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i am dragging 1 item and they both move! they get pooled after RE copying when RE boundaries are same size or bigger then the source AI being copied as you can see in the licecap!

i have this option enabled but is irrelevant. (disabling produces the same)


maybe it's me and i am interpreting something wrong.

edit: it happens in more then 1 selected AI too, not just one

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Old 02-22-2021, 12:29 PM   #32
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Quote:
The new reasurround scale Y envelope being created with a default baseline value of 0.5, which is the correct default value for that envelope.
The correct value should be 0.245 because I have copy/past reasurround from the top track and the Y value was 0.245. So the value of the two reasurround is 0.245 and not 0.5.



Quote:
The copied automation item has the correct envelope value of 0.245.
There is no issue about that, apart the envelope extra points.

New exemple:

y baseline should be 0.895
x baseline should be 0.926


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Old 02-22-2021, 12:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
  • # Razor edit: split action and mouse modifier respect preference to crossfade on split
yeah, was hoping for this, awesome!
Quote:
  • # Razor edits: respect "automatically show affected envelopes when moving edits across tracks" only after razor edit is complete [p=2407799]
and to me, this is a fine solution ^
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:51 PM   #34
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" respect "automatically show affected envelopes when moving edits across tracks" only after razor edit is complete [p=2407799]"
yeah, was hoping for this, awesome!
and to me, this is a fine solution ^
yes and actually could be applied more often , so that there are no sound changes while dragging RE edit and still not committed with a drop! anyway i told this manny times
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:20 PM   #35
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i think the fix only works here because the envelope data was/is there all along, subject to the playcursor, even if it was hidden. deferring the un-hide is just a handy way to suppress lane-creation of envelopes on the move -- in contrast to the idea of ghost REs, which the playcursor would ignore until the were released.

i agree it'd be great if objects (REs in particular) "in hand" got muted until released, but i also think i remember hearing pretty conclusively that such behavior wasn't in the cards.

this is obviously not a critical issue, but it makes for a pretty noisy process during loop editing. thankfully, that BANG bug got squashed some years ago, so it's not so bad.
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:21 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
The correct value should be 0.245 because I have copy/past reasurround from the top track and the Y value was 0.245. So the value of the two reasurround is 0.245 and not 0.5.
OK. This is the same as the existing behavior when editing media items, FX parameter envelopes that are auto-created during a media item edit are initialized to the default value, not the current value, but we can try improving it for razor edits.
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:23 PM   #37
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OK. This is the same as the existing behavior when editing media items, FX parameter envelopes that are auto-created during a media item edit are initialized to the default value, not the current value, but we can try improving it for razor edits.
Great! Thx you.
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:30 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by deeb View Post
This seems not good behaviour!
This is because two preferences are enabled: "editing behavior/automation/pool source data when copying with tracks or media items" (default), and "preferences/mouse modifiers/automation item/edits affect all pooled automation items at the same position" (not default).
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:36 PM   #39
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RobinGShore reported this yesterday, but i came up against it a lot in the past few hours so i thought i'd document it, too.

changing the state of "move envelope points with items/razor edits" from "on" to "off" does not update existing REs



1: toggle the action off
2: create an RE over envelope content
3: move the RE. behavior: as expected.
4: toggle the action on
5: move the RE. behavior: as expected.
6: toggle the action off again
7: issue: envelopes still move with RE despite toggle state.
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:49 PM   #40
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and to me, this is a fine solution ^
Why? For me, it's a regression. Now, we can't see which envelopes will be affected by the drop and where items will be dropped.

But the previous behavior wasn't always perfect because sometime, some envelopes weren't hidden:


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