WineHQ 6.3 Breaks Stuff

[Glennbo]

I got updated to winehq-staging 6.3 tonight and it killed Superior Drummer which is in my default REAPER template. REAPER would freeze trying to load and I had to terminate it.

So I removed all traces of WINE, then installed winehq-stable 6.0 and winetricks, and now REAPER loads up my projects again. It may be that none of my Windows plugins would have worked, but since REAPER froze on startup, I'll never know. I did go back and forth a couple of times to confirm that at least on Xubuntu 20.04 using winhq-staging 6.3 does not fly.

[4duhwinnn]

I've had better luck with 6.3, in Ubuntu Studio 20.04 with windows Reaper 6.23. I have Drumburst midi-out playing Battery 4 and MTPower Drumkit2, recorded the good bits. Tried some 32 and 64 bit synths, K6 was OK. Massive X updated it's sounds, Syntronik loaded/played OK, Vital vst3 updated sounds when I logged in, discoDSP Vertigo vst3 worked fine, Amplitube 4 and 5 in the same session OK.

Haven't tried the linux/linvst part yet. It's always good to have
a stable wine version to rely on, although in 2019/2020 I had more
linux gotchas than from wine itself.
Cheers

(knocking on wood-grain formica, just in case)

[Glennbo]

I did a more thorough test where I was able to get into REAPER with winhq-staging 6.3 and all of my bridged Windows plugins would cause REAPER to freeze trying to load them, and all 16 threads on my thread monitor became about 10% busy.

As soon as I killed all things WINE and installed winehq-stable 6.0, all my bridged with LinVST Windows plugins started working again.

[Glennbo]

Some more observations about the latest WINEHQ drops. I use an old Windows NNTP newsreader, which stopped working before the issue of REAPER freezing up when attempting to load WINE bridged Windows VSTs.

Well, it looks like the v6.2 drop that was done a week earlier is what killed my newsreader app, and v6.3 totally kills Windows VST bridging.

After rolling back to v6.0 both my newsreader app and REAPER with Windows plugins work like they have for the last two years.

I'm starting to think I should turn off the repository for WineHQ, and freeze v6.0 on my machine so it can't be updated.

[JamesPeters]

I've never had a problem with Wine or WineHq, any version.

Oh that's right, I don't use Wine at all because WINDOWS SUCKS.

[Codesound]

Hi,
same problems here.... is there one way to install wine 6.0?

thanks!!!

https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34998

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

I've never had a problem with Wine or WineHq, any version.

Oh that's right, I don't use Wine at all because WINDOWS SUCKS.

While you are correct that Windows sucks, Kontakt does not suck!

And Kontakt is all the other instruments besides bass, drums, and guitar that I need for composing. Point me to a native Linux VST or LV2 with a similar library of quality sampled instruments as Kontakt, and I'll become a non WINE user like you.

Looks like someone who has an account at WineHQ has posted about this issue, but they are running Linux Mint and seeing the exact same crashing of REAPER with winehq-staging 6.3 as I see. Hope they fix it soon. I'm still considering turning off WineHQ as a repository so they can't fuck my system up again.

https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34998

[Held]

I have the same issue with wine-6.2 that comes with Manjaro.

To downgrade install the package with the same name

pamac install downgrade

Next run downgrade and select an older version of wine

sudo downgrade wine

Unfortunately, that only works if you had an older version installed previously.

I don't know how to get an older version that isn't already on your computer.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Codesound

Hi,
same problems here.... is there one way to install wine 6.0?

thanks!!!

https://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=34998

What I did was fire up Synaptic, search for wine, and then do complete uninstalls of every version and library so that nothing wine existed any longer. Then I searched again for wine, scrolled to the bottom of the list and only checked winehq-stable 6.0 and winetricks. That of course added additional things to be installed.

Once winehq-stable 6.0 and winetricks were installed, REAPER fired up and worked like it has for the last two years. I'm concerned that WineHQ will update winehq-stable to v6.3 and blow stuff up on my machine again, so I'm about a heartbeat away from disabling them as a repository.

[Codesound]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

What I did was fire up Synaptic, search for wine, and then do complete uninstalls of every version and library so that nothing wine existed any longer. Then I searched again for wine, scrolled to the bottom of the list and only checked winehq-stable 6.0 and winetricks. That of course added additional things to be installed.

Once winehq-stable 6.0 and winetricks were installed, REAPER fired up and worked like it has for the last two years. I'm concerned that WineHQ will update winehq-stable to v6.3 and blow stuff up on my machine again, so I'm about a heartbeat away from disabling them as a repository.

GLEMBOO you are a best linux/reaper supporter! Thanks again!!!

I don't use synaptic but I install Wine via terminal. Is there a valid command to install wineHQ-staging 6.0, or is better that I install Synaptic for search and install it?

the list for install wineHQ-staging that I use is:

sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386
wget -nc https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/winehq.key
sudo apt-key add winehq.key
sudo apt-add-repository 'deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/ bionic main'
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:cybermax-dexter/sdl2-backport
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
sudo apt install --install-recommends winehq-staging


thnanks again!

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Codesound

GLEMBOO you are a best linux/reaper supporter! Thanks again!!!

I don't use synaptic but I install Wine via terminal. Is there a valid command to install wineHQ-staging 6.0, or is better that I install Synaptic for search and install it?

the list for install wineHQ-staging that I use is:

sudo dpkg --add-architecture i386
wget -nc https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/winehq.key
sudo apt-key add winehq.key
sudo apt-add-repository 'deb https://dl.winehq.org/wine-builds/ubuntu/ bionic main'
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:cybermax-dexter/sdl2-backport
sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade
sudo apt install --install-recommends winehq-staging


thnanks again!

I was unable to get a v6.0 of staging, but v6 was still the current version for stable, and that's what I installed.

I NUKED WineHQ as a repository, which made the other versions of winehq-staging and winehq-development no longer appear in the list below, but since I installed winehq-stable, it still appears in the list. Before killing WineHQ as a repository it showed v6.3 for staging and development versions, but v6.0 for the stable version.

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

And Kontakt is all the other instruments besides bass, drums, and guitar that I need for composing. Point me to a native Linux VST or LV2 with a similar library of quality sampled instruments as Kontakt, and I'll become a non WINE user like you.

Or just stop using that crutch and be a real musician.

[Codesound]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I was unable to get a v6.0 of staging, but v6 was still the current version for stable, and that's what I installed.

I NUKED WineHQ as a repository, which made the other versions of winehq-staging and winehq-development no longer appear in the list below, but since I installed winehq-stable, it still appears in the list. Before killing WineHQ as a repository it showed v6.3 for staging and development versions, but v6.0 for the stable version.

Hi,

I can confirm that if wine-stable 6.0 is installed, all works fine!
Thanks GLENNBO, THANKS!!!
I inform the wine forum about this problem, I hope it will be resolved soon

THANKS AGAIN!!!

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

And Kontakt is all the other instruments besides bass, drums, and guitar that I need for composing. Point me to a native Linux VST or LV2 with a similar library of quality sampled instruments as Kontakt, and I'll become a non WINE user like you.

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

Or just stop using that crutch and be a real musician.

I don't have the space to store a bari-sax, tenor sax, trombone, trumpet, French horn, oboe, violin, viola, cello, contrabass, clavinette, Wurlitzer, Rhodes, sitar, tablas, and a few other things, or I would have the real instruments.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Codesound

Hi,

I can confirm that if wine-stable 6.0 is installed, all works fine!
Thanks GLENNBO, THANKS!!!
I inform the wine forum about this problem, I hope it will be resolved soon

THANKS AGAIN!!!

Very cool. Glad you are back up and running with REAPER.

I no longer trust the WineHQ guys and removed them as a repository. They've broken stuff twice now on my machine.

When they rolled out v6.2 of staging it broke a newsreader app I use, but I didn't make the connection until they rolled out v6.3 a week later and it broke REAPER with LinVST and Windows plugins.

[4duhwinnn]

I've never had a wine-staging version auto-update itself.
In synaptic, the user must choose the action, and OK it in separate steps.
It's pointless to disable a repo, when the 'Enter' key is the real villain

Synaptic prefs allow us to keep downloaded files in the cache
( /var/cache/apt/archives ) and we can choose to download packages
without installing them, so it's easy enough to collect wines
and stash them in a cellar on a backup media.

Having all the eggs in one basket, when dealing with the volatility
and diversity of linux audio, is just begging for things to interrupt
fun and productivity. (same goes for win/mac users, but it's easy for us to have several high-functioning but different linux systems that are bootable inside one computer) I suspect people have inadvertantly been updating some key system libs along with their wine versions, so mileage will vary, and there's plenty of room for regressions...we're fortunate they are few and far between.
Cheers

[4duhwinnn]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

Or just stop using that crutch and be a real musician.

Smilely noted, it must be remembered that creativity and hard work
in the practice arena are far more prevalant among those using crutches,
than those wearing fanboi boxers, and waving the various GPL's around,
while futzing with source codes instead of populating the top 100 lists...

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn

I've never had a wine-staging version auto-update itself.
In synaptic, the user must choose the action, and OK it in separate steps.
It's pointless to disable a repo, when the 'Enter' key is the real villain

Synaptic prefs allow us to keep downloaded files in the cache
( /var/cache/apt/archives ) and we can choose to download packages
without installing them, so it's easy enough to collect wines
and stash them in a cellar on a backup media.

I'm too anal and do autoremove and autoclean all the time. I will have to check out what's in that folder on my machine though, as now I'm thinking I might like having some known to work stuff backed up.

Having all the eggs in one basket, when dealing with the volatility
and diversity of linux audio, is just begging for things to interrupt
fun and productivity. (same goes for win/mac users, but it's easy for us to have several high-functioning but different linux systems that are bootable inside one computer) I suspect people have inadvertantly been updating some key system libs along with their wine versions, so mileage will vary, and there's plenty of room for regressions...we're fortunate they are few and far between.
Cheers

Well, I saw on the WineHQ forum they were wondering why REAPER users were using winehq-staging and not winehq-stable, which I only switched to because they broke a lot of things with the staging version. When I installed Kontakt two years ago, you needed winehq-staging or it didn't work. Now it appears that it does work with winehq-stable, so I'm on v6.0 of that for now.

By removing WineHQ as a repository I can now issue "sudo apt update" and "sudo apt upgrade" without worrying that I will be upgraded to winehq-stable 6.3, which I might get with the repository enabled.

[osxmidi]

The Wine 6.3 bug has apparently been fixed, so Wine 6.4 should be ok when it's released.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by osxmidi

The Wine 6.3 bug has apparently been fixed, so Wine 6.4 should be ok when it's released.

Cool, so million dollar question would be, is staging the better version to be on at this point? When I was installing Kontakt two years ago it needed to be staging to get it to install and function.

I don't know about installing it, but running a previously installed version seems to work fine on winehq-stable.

Sounds like it would be safe to re-add the WineHQ repository, but maybe keep using winehq-stable? I just want stuff to work.

[osxmidi]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Cool, so million dollar question would be, is staging the better version to be on at this point? When I was installing Kontakt two years ago it needed to be staging to get it to install and function.

I don't know about installing it, but running a previously installed version seems to work fine on winehq-stable.

Sounds like it would be safe to re-add the WineHQ repository, but maybe keep using winehq-stable? I just want stuff to work.

I would tend to use Wine-Stable unless something is needed from Wine Staging.

Some plugin registrations needed Wine-Staging in the past but that might have changed.

Also, Waves Central needed Wine Staging, but then Waves Central started to use Powershell and it doesn't work with Wine anymore.

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn

Smilely noted, it must be remembered that creativity and hard work
in the practice arena are far more prevalant among those using crutches,
than those wearing fanboi boxers, and waving the various GPL's around,
while futzing with source codes instead of populating the top 100 lists...

Nope. Windows and all its software sucks. Linux or die.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by osxmidi

I would tend to use Wine-Stable unless something is needed from Wine Staging.

Some plugin registrations needed Wine-Staging in the past but that might have changed.

Also, Waves Central needed Wine Staging, but then Waves Central started to use Powershell and it doesn't work with Wine anymore.

Is it cool for me to have nuked WineHQ as a repository when I'm running winehq-stable 6.0? Everything is working fine now, so I don't really want any updates if they aren't necessary.

[Jack Winter]

If you don't need an updated wine, then it ought to be fine. You can always enable it again if you find that you'd like to update it.

On Archlinux there is a different mechanism to disable certain packages from updates which I occasionally use when I don't want a package to be updated.

[osxmidi]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Is it cool for me to have nuked WineHQ as a repository when I'm running winehq-stable 6.0? Everything is working fine now, so I don't really want any updates if they aren't necessary.

I think it's pretty easy to add it back.

Unless you want Wine Staging 6.4 etc, I don't see much need for it, Wine 7 will be much further down the track.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Jack Winter

If you don't need an updated wine, then it ought to be fine. You can always enable it again if you find that you'd like to update it.

On Archlinux there is a different mechanism to disable certain packages from updates which I occasionally use when I don't want a package to be updated.

Cool. Thanks!

I'm going to just leave it as is then. I'll never install another Windows program or plugin, because the few of them that I need are already installed and working.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by osxmidi

I think it's pretty easy to add it back.

I think I might have disabled the repository when I was on Xubuntu 18.04 because when I upgraded to 20.04 WINE broke and would not upgrade due to mismatched packages or something. I'm guessing WineHQ's stuff has some dependency on some OS packages or something. Anyway, I had found that the winehq-staging that I was running had not been upgraded for a long time and it took some finagling to sort it out.

Unless you want Wine Staging 6.4 etc, I don't see much need for it, Wine 7 will be much further down the track.

For me, winehq-staging 6.2 broke one of the two actual Windows apps I use, one is a programming editor, and the other an ancient NNTP newsreader.

Then a week later v6.3 broke REAPER with LinVST and Windows plugins. Running winehq-stable 6.0 has all the Windows stuff I use working again, so I don't have need for any different version, just so long as the one I'm running doesn't break.

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by Jack Winter

On Archlinux there is a different mechanism to disable certain packages from updates which I occasionally use when I don't want a package to be updated.

Synaptic has "lock version" as well.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

Synaptic has "lock version" as well.

Killing the repository the REAPER killing updates were coming from should also be effective.

[JamesPeters]

I just wanted to mention you have options. Do whatever makes the most sense under the circumstances. Next time you have an issue with some software though, you may not want to nuke an entire repo. It's good to know about these things.

In Manjaro (I suspect also Arch) you can go into Pamac preferences, advanced, and tell it to "ignore upgrades" for a package.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

I just wanted to mention you have options. Do whatever makes the most sense under the circumstances. Next time you have an issue with some software though, you may not want to nuke an entire repo. It's good to know about these things.

In Manjaro (I suspect also Arch) you can go into Pamac preferences, advanced, and tell it to "ignore upgrades" for a package.

I've always disabled repositories in the "Software and Updates" applet on the "Other Software" tab. I currently have the Google Earth repository disabled there (did that even before launching GE the first time), but where I could flip it back on if there were an udate/upgrade that I wanted, but I don't expect I'll ever want any updates/upgrades for the WineHQ versions of WINE, so I just removed them as a repository.

[4duhwinnn]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

By removing WineHQ as a repository I can now issue "sudo apt update" and "sudo apt upgrade" without worrying...

It's good luck to click the 'details' button in synaptic to see
exactly what is going to happen. There is often plenty listed there
to worry about, like changes to dependecies, deprecated or
conflicting items to be removed in the name of progress,
C and gui libs and/or their derivatives...etc

[4duhwinnn]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

but I don't expect I'll ever want any updates/upgrades for the WineHQ versions of WINE, so I just removed them as a repository.

I sometimes buy up products that don't yet work in wine, if they are
on sale at no-brainer prices. Usually it's dumb registration failures,
or eccentric reliance on 'shaders' and the like in graphics drivers,
which I hope wine will address, so I have a spear-catcher distro for new wine updates, which I use 'with hope' more in mind than productivity. Izotope. Propellorheads,
and Korg among other brands, are ones I hope will work in the next year.
I keep other distros in the safe zones, until test results are in.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn

It's good luck to click the 'details' button in synaptic to see
exactly what is going to happen. There is often plenty listed there
to worry about, like changes to dependecies, deprecated or
conflicting items to be removed in the name of progress,
C and gui libs and/or their derivatives...etc

I've kept my DAW current for the 2+ years it's been running Linux, and the only problem I've encountered so far has been with WineHQ, but to be fair I've used winehq-staging for more than two years with no problems, while updating/upgrading along the way.

I hear they are attempting to fix five year old permission issues with some Windows installers that require elevated permissions. All my five or six Windows instrument plugins and a couple Windows apps are all working, so I don't need the fixes they are working on, especially if it's going to break my working system.

[robbert-vdh]

Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn

I sometimes buy up products that don't yet work in wine, if they are
on sale at no-brainer prices. Usually it's dumb registration failures,
or eccentric reliance on 'shaders' and the like in graphics drivers,
which I hope wine will address, so I have a spear-catcher distro for new wine updates, which I use 'with hope' more in mind than productivity. Izotope. Propellorheads,
and Korg among other brands, are ones I hope will work in the next year.
I keep other distros in the safe zones, until test results are in.

I know there are a few people in the yabridge Discord that use the old KORG plugins without issues, so they should work fine! Someone posted a screenshot running the entire KORG Legacy Collection a month ago:

[Codesound]

Hi,

ALSO WINE-STAGING 6.4 HAS THE SAME PROBLEM...

has anyone managed to warn the wine developers of this problem?

[robbert-vdh]

Originally Posted by Codesound

Hi,

ALSO WINE-STAGING 6.4 HAS THE SAME PROBLEM...

has anyone managed to warn the wine developers of this problem?

Wine Staging 6.4 doesn't have the same issue. It got fixed with a one character change on the batch of commits after Wine 6.3 got released. I've already had a number of yabridge users report in saying that everything worked again after updating to Wine Staging 6.4.

[Codesound]

Originally Posted by robbert-vdh

Wine Staging 6.4 doesn't have the same issue. It got fixed with a one character change on the batch of commits after Wine 6.3 got released. I've already had a number of yabridge users report in saying that everything worked again after updating to Wine Staging 6.4.

Hi,

Thanks for your info! You're right! I forgot to change the old LinVST/LinVST3 system files with the newer.... Now all works fine!

Thanks again at all....

[wastee]

Originally Posted by robbert-vdh

Wine Staging 6.4 doesn't have the same issue. It got fixed with a one character change on the batch of commits after Wine 6.3 got released. I've already had a number of yabridge users report in saying that everything worked again after updating to Wine Staging 6.4.

Very helpful. Thank you.

[windeguy]

Thank you for this thread. I had just installed AVL-MXE-2020 and linvst bridged plugins I was trying were working. I then did a general update and the bridged plugins no longer worked. This thread indicates that wine-staging was the culprit. I had already done a re-install and will be careful about any updates from here on in.

Is it only the wine staging the needs to be held back from updating?

I currently have wine-staging 5.22~buster installed and held in synaptic.

If I were to upgrade, synaptic has wine-staging 6.4~buster as the option, which seems to be safe versus 6.3.

Dare I not do that upgrade or am I reading correctly that it is now safe in version 6.4? I am not familiar with yabridge, having only used the Linvst wrapper until now.