Old 09-24-2021, 08:36 AM   #1
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Default v6.36+dev0924 - September 24 2021

v6.36+dev0924 - September 24 2021
  • * Includes feature branch: multichannel, multi-mono, multi-stereo ReaPlugs
  • * Includes feature branch: ReaLimit and render limiting
  • * Includes feature branch: MIDI editor note reordering
  • * Includes feature branch: media item lanes
  • + FX: JSFX, ReaFX VU meter clip indicator behavior matches track VU meters
  • + MIDI editor: obey Preferences/Keyboard/alt key opens main menu option on Windows
  • + Render: VU meter clip indicator behavior matches track VU meters
  • + Track panels: improve behavior of FX parameter knobs for toggle parameters
  • # FX: delta control is a first-class parameter
  • # VU meters: fix loudness readout when input is silent
This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:16 AM   #2
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[*]# FX: delta control is a first-class parameter
What does that mean?
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:20 AM   #3
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What does that mean?
Dude, I don't understand nine-tenths of the gobblelygook...
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by juan_r View Post
What does that mean?
They realized how amazing it is?

In all seriousness, I think it maybe has to do with the ability to pass it as an argument to another function? Would be interested to know myself...
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:36 AM   #5
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extremely happy with the delta solo fx thing... thanks!

can we get sidechain input in ReaLimit? (maybe it does already and I've missed it)

use case:
stem rendering for layered music (game audio)
each stem has a ReaLimit whose input is a sum of all stems to be exported (via sending all folder/stem tracks to another track -- this would be the sidechain signal)
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juan_r View Post
What does that mean?
It means you can assign it to a controller or automate it.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:46 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by kytdkut View Post
extremely happy with the delta solo fx thing... thanks!

can we get sidechain input in ReaLimit? (maybe it does already and I've missed it)

use case:
stem rendering for layered music (game audio)
each stem has a ReaLimit whose input is a sum of all stems to be exported (via sending all folder/stem tracks to another track -- this would be the sidechain signal)
An earlier build supported this as part of the render-limiting process, you could limit stems based on the gain reduction that would have been applied to the master mix. But we removed it because it seemed too weird/risky to print the master mix gain reduction into the stems, because that means all you can usefully do with the stems is sum them back together into the original master with no additional mixing or processing.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:48 AM   #8
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Quote:
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It means you can assign it to a controller or automate it.
Woo-hoo, first class indeed!
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:01 AM   #9
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because that means all you can usefully do with the stems is sum them back together into the original master with no additional mixing or processing.
This is very useful for interactive music for games

it maybe seems weird as an option in the render dialog limiter

a sidechain input in the standalone FX it would be more... straightforward? at least to me

thanks schwa
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:15 AM   #10
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Could you explain the use case more? When do you want to brickwall limit (not just compress) one signal based on the levels of another signal?
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:21 AM   #11
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Thank you for your work on the delta function, guys.

Could we get a mouse-modifier shortcut for it, like CTRL+left click the wet/dry knob, please?
(Doesn't need to be user-definable.)
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:29 AM   #12
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is it time to fix the background color of the mix knob yet?

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Old 09-24-2021, 12:07 PM   #13
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Media Item Appearance/Media Item Labels. The option "Except when the media item height is less than the label height" is still not there. Has this been removed for a reason?
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:24 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by bodfum View Post
Media Item Appearance/Media Item Labels. The option "Except when the media item height is less than the label height" is still not there. Has this been removed for a reason?
The height-dependent display preferences have changed in the +dev build, in the media item lanes branch, because of the interaction between the preferences in Appearance/Media and Appearance/Media Item Lanes. The label display is now controlled by the preference "hide labels when the media item height is less than X pixels".

It will still be a while before that branch is merged into the release version of REAPER so the old label height preference remains as it was previously, in the released version.
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:52 PM   #15
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Could you explain the use case more? When do you want to brickwall limit (not just compress) one signal based on the levels of another signal?
I can try!

when rendering stems for layer based music for games (layers mapped to some game parameter such as player health, boss phase...) it is nice to have a predictable peak level when playing all the stems together, even if those files are not being played back at the original level

I think if we use the sum of the stems for the input signal of the individual stem limiters (those would be the ReaLimit FXs), then the max peak level of all the files when played together would be the ceiling parameter (if we actually hit the threshold and engage the limiting)

am I making sense? it is very clear in my head but in another language
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:29 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
+ FX: JSFX, ReaFX VU meter clip indicator behavior matches track VU meters
+ Render: VU meter clip indicator behavior matches track VU meters
Great, now all the clip indicators behave consistently as they should! Thanks
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Old 09-24-2021, 03:22 PM   #17
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holy wow!
no more clip indicators at a simple 0.0dB

Thank you
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Old 09-24-2021, 03:24 PM   #18
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btw

I've installed the portable version of reaper and copied/imported all the files from the previous (installed program files version) and I've lost all the favorite marks for the samples in the media browser :/

is there a file or a way to keep my favorite samples marked??
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Old 09-24-2021, 03:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kytdkut View Post
I can try!

when rendering stems for layer based music for games (layers mapped to some game parameter such as player health, boss phase...) it is nice to have a predictable peak level when playing all the stems together, even if those files are not being played back at the original level

I think if we use the sum of the stems for the input signal of the individual stem limiters (those would be the ReaLimit FXs), then the max peak level of all the files when played together would be the ceiling parameter (if we actually hit the threshold and engage the limiting)

am I making sense? it is very clear in my head but in another language
I totally agree with this. The idea is that you can export stems of a mastered project and the sum of all the stems will sound exactly as if you had the limiter in the master.

I needed this exact setup for the soundtrack of a game not so long ago, I used Pro-L 2 which has a sidechain input.
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:09 PM   #20
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2 requests.

ReaLimit: Keep resized amount the same when closing and re-opening Reaper.

JS Loudness Meter Peak/RMS/LUFS: Add stereo peak output meters that work just like Reaper's Master peak meters that will hold the values when play is stopped. (That is if I missed it somewhere)

PS: I think these 2 plugins have taken Reaper to a new height.
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:28 PM   #21
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Nomenclature nitpick:
First class parameter is called 'Delta' but Dry/Wet context menu says "Delta solo".
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Old 09-24-2021, 04:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonileys View Post
I needed this exact setup for the soundtrack of a game not so long ago, I used Pro-L 2 which has a sidechain input.
ReaComp’s multichannel mode does what y’all are asking for without any need for sidechain. Does ReaLimit not?
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Old 09-24-2021, 06:08 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
btw

I've installed the portable version of reaper and copied/imported all the files from the previous (installed program files version) and I've lost all the favorite marks for the samples in the media browser :/

is there a file or a way to keep my favorite samples marked??
That info is stored in the REAPER resource folder under MetadataCaches.
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Old 09-24-2021, 08:21 PM   #24
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Default brickwall limiting on stems

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
An earlier build supported this as part of the render-limiting process, you could limit stems based on the gain reduction that would have been applied to the master mix. But we removed it because it seemed too weird/risky to print the master mix gain reduction into the stems, because that means all you can usefully do with the stems is sum them back together into the original master with no additional mixing or processing.
I'm fine with that. I think brickwall should be an option for the common gain setting and the channels should sum to the same as the composited mix (which wasn't occurring in previous versions).

If someone wants to improperly use such a feature it's their mistake to make but there is a legitimate use for it.
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Old 09-25-2021, 01:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
v6.36+dev0924 - September 24 2021
[*]# FX: delta control is a first-class parameter
Awesome! I've been testing the delta feature for a while now and it's super useful as it is! A few observations to make it even more useful:

1. The delta signal seem to be applied only on channels 1-2. If I route the plugin output to for example 3-4 and have delta enabled, then the normal output is routed to 3-4 and the polarity inverted input signal stays on output 1-2.

2. It would be great to have output-input as the delta signal, instead of input-output as it is now, ie flip the polarity of the current delta signal.

These things would make it easy to, for example, have a compressor in delta mode, with its output routed to 3-4 (and thus having the clean signal untouched at 1-2). I could then manipulate the delta signal independently on 3-4, and then combine them again by summing 1-2 with 3-4 afterwards. Hope this makes sense.

I understand that this is not the intended use, but this feature would really simplify some things for me and open up some creative ways to more easily (ab)use plugins in ways they weren't meant to be used...

Also, it would be great if there was a way to keep the delta mode more "sticky". As it is now, it's very easy to disable it by accidentally clicking the dry/wet. I understand that this is good for the intended use case though.

/T
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Old 09-25-2021, 01:32 AM   #26
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+ Track panels: improve behavior of FX parameter knobs for toggle parameters.

I don't really know exactly what the improvement is here, but while you're at this:

In preview mode, toggling the parameter on/off up in the right corner checkbox takes a few clicks if the envelope doesn't already exist. Same with creating new envelopes inside the FXs. At least a double click on buttons of a VST before Reaper activates the parameter is usually required.

It feels like the intended behavior should be one click at the parameter to activate it?
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Old 09-25-2021, 02:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasE View Post
These things would make it easy to, for example, have a compressor in delta mode, with its output routed to 3-4 (and thus having the clean signal untouched at 1-2). I could then manipulate the delta signal independently on 3-4, and then combine them again by summing 1-2 with 3-4 afterwards. Hope this makes sense.

I understand that this is not the intended use, but this feature would really simplify some things for me and open up some creative ways to more easily (ab)use plugins in ways they weren't meant to be used...
Love this
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Old 09-25-2021, 03:23 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
That info is stored in the REAPER resource folder under MetadataCaches.

thanks!
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Old 09-25-2021, 04:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans View Post
+ Track panels: improve behavior of FX parameter knobs for toggle parameters.

I don't really know exactly what the improvement is here, but while you're at this:

In preview mode, toggling the parameter on/off up in the right corner checkbox takes a few clicks if the envelope doesn't already exist. Same with creating new envelopes inside the FXs. At least a double click on buttons of a VST before Reaper activates the parameter is usually required.

It feels like the intended behavior should be one click at the parameter to activate it?
Is this related? https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=254674
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Old 09-25-2021, 05:57 AM   #30
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Default Brickwall limiting on stems

Oh, I missed this reduction in its time.
Why not to leave stems limiting as an option?
For more safety just mark it "caution".

I often render mix, or a couple or three variants of the mix using stem rendering. That gives me more naming possibilities. And I would be glad to use limiter during render.
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Old 09-25-2021, 06:34 AM   #31
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Yeah when I said the delta thing should be in with the pins I was actually meaning it something like “polarity per pin” which we have discussed in an FR a while back. Even just “per output pin” would be great, but if we could invert input pins, too, it would unlock all sorts of fun.
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Old 09-25-2021, 08:12 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
Yeah when I said the delta thing should be in with the pins I was actually meaning it something like “polarity per pin” which we have discussed in an FR a while back. Even just “per output pin” would be great, but if we could invert input pins, too, it would unlock all sorts of fun.
Now we're talking!

Having something like normal/inverted/delta available per output pin, as well as normal/inverted per input pin would be absolutely amazing!
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Old 09-25-2021, 08:18 AM   #33
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^^ not sure if is related i just made this request "playback time offset" and "MS" next to wet knob per FX instance". Maybe this "normal/inverted/delta available" which i really don't know what is about could be there too.

Could be interesting. no?
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Old 09-25-2021, 07:42 PM   #34
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I'm really happy with the delta function and this may be totally pushing it, but it would be nice if there was an action to toggle the delta for the entire FX chain and another to toggle for selected FX only (similar to Toggle selected FX bypass).

I won't be upset if neither happens, but this is a great feature and would be nice if it could be expanded to entire chains of effects. Right now, let's say you have a saturator/clipper after your dynamics processor to shave off some peaks, you want to hear what both are doing. When you delta the compressor, you're impacting what's being fed into the saturator/clipper. But if you delta solo that too, you're still hearing the saturator's effect on the delta of the compressor. If there was an "FX Chain Delta" and "Selected Track FX" delta, I'd want both the compressor and saturator to get fed the original signal, but hear the summed difference between both FX.

Now, because sometimes the first FX in the chain may actually be a virtual instrument, or because we may want to hear the delta of only a portion of the chain, I think that supports the desire for a "Toggle delta solo for selected FX" action.
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Old 09-25-2021, 08:35 PM   #35
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Moving item between tracks produce different results using the mouse or using
Move items/envelope points down one track/a bit

When is the only item on a lane > 1:
Mouse : Moves to a track and delete the empty lane.
Action: Moves to a track and dont delete the empty lane.
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Old 09-25-2021, 09:52 PM   #36
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Regarding the stuck notes problem in the Media Explorer I voiced here:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=27


It looks like it's a compatibility issue with specific plugins. I have tested various virtual instruments and synthesizers, and only two of them cause stuck notes problem:

Serum - notes freeze when switching between different midi samples in the browser and when playback is stopped in the explorer.

Spire - notes freeze only when playback is stopped in the explorer. When switching between samples, notes are cut off correctly.



Plugins that do not cause problems in the media explorer:
Synth1
Sylenth1
Vital
Avenger
Zebra2
TAL-U-NO-LX v2
Dune CM
Kontakt 6
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Old 09-26-2021, 06:36 AM   #37
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I apologize in advance for this anecdotal bug report, but I can't reliably reproduce this issue.

The Media Explorer keeps opening up on my pre-release, usually in response to some key action (which is not close to the opt-cmd-X shortcut which is set here). Once it was "delete" (of an item in the Arrange timeline), once spacebar.

If I can figure out a way to make it happen consistently, I'll certainly write again...
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Old 09-26-2021, 09:37 AM   #38
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LUFS and TP values look spot on now. RMS and LRA are still about 0.5dB off. And render stats doesn't include RMS-M max, is this intended?

Play:


Render:
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Old 09-26-2021, 10:03 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Paul Eye View Post
LUFS and TP values look spot on now. RMS and LRA are still about 0.5dB off. And render stats doesn't include RMS-M max, is this intended?
As an aside, I'm still not sure why in 2021 we are not all just using LUFS-I, LUFS-S, LUFS-M and (true) peak...I'm sure there must be a good reason
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Old 09-26-2021, 10:14 AM   #40
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Yeah, RMS is pretty much ancient history by now.
The only reason why I enabled them is for the sake of testing
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