Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[airon]

You can see an example of the Select buttons having a certain colour in the Channel zone.

[cjewellstudios]

Originally Posted by airon

You can see an example of the Select buttons having a certain colour in the Channel zone.

A certain color, yes.

Not the "Track" color. I think this was talked about before I got deep into CSI. Not sure what happened.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by cjewellstudios

A certain color, yes.

Not the "Track" color. I think this was talked about before I got deep into CSI. Not sure what happened.

I can't speak for the Faderport but following track color does work with Geoff's most recent Eucon builds. If you try it out in the Avid Control app, you'll see it in action there. That's Eucon though where the hardware is tightly tied into the protocol, not CSI.

[cjewellstudios]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I can't speak for the Faderport but following track color does work with Geoff's most recent Eucon builds. If you try it out in the Avid Control app, you'll see it in action there. That's Eucon though where the hardware is tightly tied into the protocol, not CSI.

Yeah I noticed it was working there. I sort of assumed it was a product of eucon itself. That would be great if we can get that working in CSI.

As of right now, in the osc layout I'm working on, I'm using very hacky ways to get track color that involve adding suffixes to my track names. It was a fun experiment for me to do some coding but it would be SO nice if we were able to use { Track } on the tracks.

[jazznfunk]

Hi all!

This is probably a bug.

When using X-Touch with CSI on Win 10 x64 track VU LED's are not working if channel is panned hard right. Seems like VU is connected only to left channel.
Of course X-Touch channel meters is very rough, consists only from 8 LED's, anyway this is nice visual feedback what's going on on track.

Can anybody else confirm this bug?

[MixR]

Originally Posted by jazznfunk

Hi all!

This is probably a bug.

When using X-Touch with CSI on Win 10 x64 track VU LED's are not working if channel is panned hard right. Seems like VU is connected only to left channel.
Of course X-Touch channel meters is very rough, consists only from 8 LED's, anyway this is nice visual feedback what's going on on track.

Can anybody else confirm this bug?

Confirmed on SSL UF8 - thank you!
Been wondering for ages what was going on without diving into it.

[Funkybot]

Geoff, I know you're working on VCA's right now, but perhaps a feature request for when that's complete...

Proposed feature request: some encoder-based CSI actions for navigation. The idea being that CW turns move or zoom in one direction, and CCW turns move or zoom in the opposite.

I'm thinking the full list of actions would be...

EncoderZoomHorizontal
EncoderZoomVertical
EncoderScrollHorizontal
EncoderScrollVertical
EncoderSelectTrack
EncoderScrubJog
EncoderMoveEditCursor

Right now we can't assign Zoom In and Zoom Out to a single encoder without resorting to some tricks (jogwheel hack). I think having native CSI actions that were specifically designed for encoders would be really helpful. Particularly for surfaces like the Faderport, but really anything with a jogwheel or an encoder that someone wants to use for things like track navigation.

Bonus points if these could work with acceleration.

Comes up fairly often as a feature request and I'd certainly use it myself. These would essentially replace the native Reaper actions that work with "MIDI CC relative/Mousewheel" that CSI can't utilize because it utilizes the MIDI ports that Reaper would need for those actions to work.

[cjewellstudios]

CSI sending "2.0" on TrackSolo on for me.

So its toggling between 0 and 2 in OSC. Very strange. I haven't gone nuclear and stripped down my layout to basically nothing yet to see if I caused it somehow. But I thought it worth mentioning still.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by cjewellstudios

CSI sending "2.0" on TrackSolo on for me.

So its toggling between 0 and 2 in OSC. Very strange. I haven't gone nuclear and stripped down my layout to basically nothing yet to see if I caused it somehow. But I thought it worth mentioning still.

I'm seeing that here too with my OSC surface.

This is a TrackSolo action...

OUT->iPad Pro /RotaryPushA1 2.000000

TrackMute sends 1.00000.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by cjewellstudios

CSI sending "2.0" on TrackSolo on for me.

So its toggling between 0 and 2 in OSC. Very strange. I haven't gone nuclear and stripped down my layout to basically nothing yet to see if I caused it somehow. But I thought it worth mentioning still.

Just coded a possible fix, will be in next build.

[cjewellstudios]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Just coded a possible fix, will be in next build.

Nice! Thank you!

And thanks FB for confirming

Hey Geoff, I mentioned that rgb didn't work on lines that had FXParamValueDisplay or FXParamNameDisplay, but in my usual fashion I bookended that with word vomit, did you happen to catch that?

[Funkybot]

My first ever Mac shows up on Tuesday (one of the new 16" Macbook Pros): does CSI run on Reaper ARM version? Not sure if Reaper UserPlugins need to be specifically compiled or anything for Apple silicon...figured I'd ask.

[siniarch]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

My first ever Mac shows up on Tuesday (one of the new 16" Macbook Pros): does CSI run on Reaper ARM version? Not sure if Reaper UserPlugins need to be specifically compiled or anything for Apple silicon...figured I'd ask.

Congrats on the new purchase. I'm sure it's going to be a speedy DAW.

[ivanmihaljevic]

Originally Posted by jazznfunk

Hi all!

This is probably a bug.

When using X-Touch with CSI on Win 10 x64 track VU LED's are not working if channel is panned hard right. Seems like VU is connected only to left channel.
Of course X-Touch channel meters is very rough, consists only from 8 LED's, anyway this is nice visual feedback what's going on on track.

Can anybody else confirm this bug?

Try this:

Replace

     VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeter

with

     VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR

in your Channel zone.

That should solve it! It seems the TrackOutputMeter is intended for two collumns of leds, one left and one right. The TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR & TrackOutputMeterAverageLR versions sums the two. See which one you prefer out of the two.

[ivanmihaljevic]

It seems plugin mapping doesn't work for LV2 plugins! Can anyone try and confirm?
I just created a map for Harrison's XT-CC compressor plugin and it doesn't work although I've checked and everything seems right.
I've made 20 plugin maps so far (all VST) which all worked, so I guess there's something about the LV2 implementation that messes up the behaviour.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by ivanmihaljevic

Try this:

Replace

     VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeter

with

     VUMeter|                 TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR

in your Channel zone.

That should solve it! It seems the TrackOutputMeter is intended for two collumns of leds, one left and one right. The TrackOutputMeterMaxPeakLR & TrackOutputMeterAverageLR versions sums the two. See which one you prefer out of the two.

I did not know about these two additional output meter actions. Thanks! I created a wiki page for the Output meter types.

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ackOutputMeter

If anything is wrong or needs updating, someone let me know. But wanted to get that documented real quick since it was even news to me!

[ivanmihaljevic]

Originally Posted by ivanmihaljevic

It seems plugin mapping doesn't work for LV2 plugins! Can anyone try and confirm?
I just created a map for Harrison's XT-CC compressor plugin and it doesn't work although I've checked and everything seems right.
I've made 20 plugin maps so far (all VST) which all worked, so I guess there's something about the LV2 implementation that messes up the behaviour.

I experimented with some other LV2 plugins and I did manage to make the knobs move the parameters, but very weird things are happenening... Like the full range of the V-Pot only stays within 10% of the values on one parameter and then on another it's also a limited range, but maybe more like 20% and while the first one only spins around the bottom values, the second one stays in the middle of the range. Very weird, but I'll just conclude that for now LV2 plugins can't be mapped.

[cjewellstudios]

Originally Posted by ivanmihaljevic

I experimented with some other LV2 plugins and I did manage to make the knobs move the parameters, but very weird things are happenening... Like the full range of the V-Pot only stays within 10% of the values on one parameter and then on another it's also a limited range, but maybe more like 20% and while the first one only spins around the bottom values, the second one stays in the middle of the range. Very weird, but I'll just conclude that for now LV2 plugins can't be mapped.

I take it you can't look at the code like you can with jsfx, right?

That sounds like maybe they don't deal with ranges that are always 0 to 1 like all vsts do.

Jsfx also have ranges that can vary wildly, but you can open up the plugin and see what it actually is. I would try using ranges that the gui of the plugin says, maybe?

[Cragster]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I did not know about these two additional output meter actions. Thanks! I created a wiki page for the Output meter types.

https://github.com/GeoffAWaddington/...ackOutputMeter

If anything is wrong or needs updating, someone let me know. But wanted to get that documented real quick since it was even news to me!

While on the subject of meters do the meters work CSI on the m c u Pro? I know they are cheesy but I'd still like to check them out I just have the one line for meters and they never worked on the mcu.
Maybe I need that second line in my zone file?

[ivanmihaljevic]

Originally Posted by Cragster

While on the subject of meters do the meters work CSI on the m c u Pro? I know they are cheesy but I'd still like to check them out I just have the one line for meters and they never worked on the mcu.
Maybe I need that second line in my zone file?

Are the VU meters defined in the MCU mst?
And do you have them assigned in the Channel zone?

[Cragster]

Originally Posted by ivanmihaljevic

Are the VU meters defined in the MCU mst?
And do you have them assigned in the Channel zone?

Yes and yes. I'm not at my computer now but I'll double check . I'll try that other meter zone action you suggested a few posts ago.
I knew nothing of those other 2 meter actions either. Just curious bout the MCU meters . They never worked . Thanks for the reply

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Cragster

Yes and yes. I'm not at my computer now but I'll double check . I'll try that other meter zone action you suggested a few posts ago.
I knew nothing of those other 2 meter actions either. Just curious bout the MCU meters . They never worked . Thanks for the reply

That's on me I'm afraid They were so useless I thought it would be better to just leave the lower display line for text readout.

If you put the meter action in the Zone it will operate the channel 'signal present' LEDs, which, for me, is as good as those useless meters

[Cragster]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

That's on me I'm afraid They were so useless I thought it would be better to just leave the lower display line for text readout.

If you put the meter action in the Zone it will operate the channel 'signal present' LEDs, which, for me, is as good as those useless meters

Oh okay got you yes I agree I'd rather have the lower display for text I didn't realize it was one or the other

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Cragster

Oh okay got you yes I agree I'd rather have the lower display for text I didn't realize it was one or the other

It did flip back and forth depending on whether the track was playing, but i'd rather see the track info all the time, particularly as each channel has that signal LED.

[ivanmihaljevic]

Originally Posted by cjewellstudios

I take it you can't look at the code like you can with jsfx, right?

That sounds like maybe they don't deal with ranges that are always 0 to 1 like all vsts do.

Jsfx also have ranges that can vary wildly, but you can open up the plugin and see what it actually is. I would try using ranges that the gui of the plugin says, maybe?

Oh, I missed this. I don't think you can open the LV2 code. Harrison are selling their plugins, so I don't think they're open source. I can try to play with the ranges. How do you do that btw?
But I can't even get the values to display on my controller screen. It just stays blank.
It seems like it just doesn't work currently.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

My first ever Mac shows up on Tuesday (one of the new 16" Macbook Pros): does CSI run on Reaper ARM version? Not sure if Reaper UserPlugins need to be specifically compiled or anything for Apple silicon...figured I'd ask.

While Reaper does come in a native ARM 64 version, many 3rd party plugins don't. Many run via Rosetta in a native DAW. But e.g. Kontakt is not specified to run neither native, nor in a native DAW via Rosetta, nor in a x86 DAW running via Rosetta.
-Michael

[cjewellstudios]

Originally Posted by ivanmihaljevic

Oh, I missed this. I don't think you can open the LV2 code. Harrison are selling their plugins, so I don't think they're open source. I can try to play with the ranges. How do you do that btw?
But I can't even get the values to display on my controller screen. It just stays blank.
It seems like it just doesn't work currently.

Like this:

RotaryA1 FXParam 21 "Filter1 Gain" [ -18.0>18.0 ]

This is from the js plugin ReEQ. The filter gain range goes from -18 to 18.

There is a detailed explanation on acceleration, range, and stepped parameters in the encoders section in the wiki.

FWIW the feedback wont work properly this way because CSI doesnt interpolate feedback for ranges outside of 0 to 1.

On the other hand, if my hunch was right, you wouldn't really see much feedback at all because 0 to 1 would just be a small chunk of the actual range.

Btw, can you get those plugins moving with normal means outside of CSI? The regular midi learn or even parameter linking to other plugins?

[Geoff Waddington]

Close to a final design for VCA's.

Found an old action -- ToggleVCAMode.

This will be unnecessary in the new design, is anyone currently using it ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Close to a final design for VCA's.

Found an old action -- ToggleVCAMode.

This will be unnecessary in the new design, is anyone currently using it ?

I played around with it back in the day (I think on the Artist Mix). Was handy for seeing VCA faders only. But I haven't been using it in my current setup.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I played around with it back in the day (I think on the Artist Mix). Was handy for seeing VCA faders only. But I haven't been using it in my current setup.

Cool, the new design always shows VCA faders only.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Cool, the new design always shows VCA faders only.

As long as we can turn that on and off!

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Close to a final design for VCA's.

Found an old action -- ToggleVCAMode.

This will be unnecessary in the new design, is anyone currently using it ?

Err, me That's the command that makes the surface switch from displaying all the tracks normally to just showing the VCA leaders.

Does the new design work differently?

[Geoff Waddington]

Ok, it's been a while, let's see if the design I remember is the design we need

We'll use Alt+Select to ToggleTrackVCASpill.

The surface starts out in normal mode with all tracks displayed.

Let's say Track 8 (now displayed on Channel 8 of the surface) is a VCA Leader.

We push Alt+Select on Channel 8.

Track 8 is now displayed on Channel 1 of the surface and it is pinned automatically.

Any Track 8 VCA followers are displayed to the right of Channel 1 -- i.e. Channel 2, Channel 3, etc.

Let's say the Channel 3 VCA Follower is also a VCA Leader itself.

If we push Alt+Select on Channel 3, the track on Channel 3 jumps to Channel 2 and is pinned automatically.

All the VCA Followers of this Track are displayed on Channel 3, Channel 4, etc.

By this means we control drill downs.

To get back to the non VCA mode, just Alt+Select Channel 1, voila


Does this make sense ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Ok, it's been a while, let's see if the design I remember is the design we need

We'll use Alt+Select to ToggleTrackVCASpill.

The surface starts out in normal mode with all tracks displayed.

Let's say Track 8 (now displayed on Channel 8 of the surface) is a VCA Leader.

We push Alt+Select on Channel 8.

Track 8 is now displayed on Channel 1 of the surface and it is pinned automatically.

Any Track 8 VCA followers are displayed to the right of Channel 1 -- i.e. Channel 2, Channel 3, etc.

Let's say the Channel 3 VCA Follower is also a VCA Leader itself.

If we push Alt+Select on Channel 3, the track on Channel 3 jumps to Channel 2 and is pinned automatically.

All the VCA Followers of this Track are displayed on Channel 3, Channel 4, etc.

By this means we control drill downs.

To get back to the non VCA mode, just Alt+Select Channel 1, voila


Does this make sense ?

I think the thing that I see as missing is that lots of folks use VCA's for stem mixing type of approaches and they'll want the option of seeing only that initial layer of VCA's.

So for example, you may have VCA's leaders for various instrument group submixes:

1. Drums
2. Bass
3. Guitars
4. Keys
5. Lead Vocals
6. Backing Vocals
7. Incidental sounds
8. FX

And maybe there are some additional VCA's within those groups. Example: maybe I've got some VCA Leaders within the Keys and Background Vocals groups.

It sounds like you covered the use-cases for going up and down the VCA chain, but ToggleVCAMode worked for quickly allowing users to see the top level of VCA Leaders on their surface. So in the above example, we'd engage ToggleVCAMode and the 8 VCA leaders above would be mapped to the 8 faders and nothing else.

Then users may want to drill down deeper into the VCA groups and navigate from there. Then turn the VCA Mode off and go back to an "all tracks" type of view.

I'm not sure if that adds a ton of complexity with drill downs, but I think keeping ToggleVCAMode is worth it. As I think back to the Artist Mix setup (when that was still part of CSI) that's exactly how I had that surface setup.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I think the thing that I see as missing is that lots of folks use VCA's for stem mixing type of approaches and they'll want the option of seeing only that initial layer of VCA's.

So for example, you may have VCA's leaders for various instrument group submixes:

1. Drums
2. Bass
3. Guitars
4. Keys
5. Lead Vocals
6. Backing Vocals
7. Incidental sounds
8. FX

And maybe there are some additional VCA's within those groups. Example: maybe I've got some VCA Leaders within the Keys and Background Vocals groups.

It sounds like you covered the use-cases for going up and down the VCA chain, but ToggleVCAMode worked for quickly allowing users to see the top level of VCA Leaders on their surface. So in the above example, we'd engage ToggleVCAMode and the 8 VCA leaders above would be mapped to the 8 faders and nothing else.

Then users may want to drill down deeper into the VCA groups and navigate from there. Then turn the VCA Mode off and go back to an "all tracks" type of view.

I'm not sure if that adds a ton of complexity with drill downs, but I think keeping ToggleVCAMode is worth it. As I think back to the Artist Mix setup (when that was still part of CSI) that's exactly how I had that surface setup.

Cool, now I recall, and we decided we wouldn't remember the drill down state, since that was complicated.

The good news is, with the new navigation, it's trivial to remember the drill down state, so you will be able to return to the VCA location as you toggle VCA mode on/off.

Thanks for reminding me folks.

[airon]

It seems it's possibly to control foduced Take FX as well.

Has anyone tried to implement this for CSI yet ?

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by airon

It seems it's possibly to control foduced Take FX as well.

Has anyone tried to implement this for CSI yet ?

Focused Take/Item FX don't seem to get picked up. But not just in CSI, but also ReaLearn. It may be an API limitation of Reaper itself.

[Apokalipsis]

Hello Geoff,
if it possible, please add actions for CSI:
NextFXParam
PrevFXParam

For example as use this:
SomeButton NextFXParam [ 2, 18, 113, 942 ] / In brackets - array paramnumbers
SomeButton PrevFXParam [ 942, 113, 18, 2 ]

It can be convenient for the controller with a small number of regulators.

Example for zon file:

Zone "any_vst_plugin"
ButtonLower1 NextFXParam [ 1, 3, 5 ]
ButtonUpper1 PrevFXParam [ 5, 3, 1 ]
Fader14Bit FocusedFXParam
ZoneEnd

Very big thank for you work!

[helgoboss]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Focused Take/Item FX don't seem to get picked up. But not just in CSI, but also ReaLearn. It may be an API limitation of Reaper itself.

I think it's not an API limitation. Each TrackFX_* function has an analog TakeFX_* function and I would assume that latter work as expected. GetFocusedFX and GetFocusedFX2 have an out parameter named "itemnumberOut", so it should work with take FX as well.

Regarding ReaLearn, the main reason why it's not in there yet is that almost nobody has been asking for it It's definitely on the list and by the looks of it wouldn't be that much of an effort (though probably a bit more effort to integrate it very nicely).

[EskoMastering]

Originally Posted by helgoboss

I think it's not an API limitation. Each TrackFX_* function has an analog TakeFX_* function and I would assume that latter work as expected. GetFocusedFX and GetFocusedFX2 have an out parameter named "itemnumberOut", so it should work with take FX as well.

Regarding ReaLearn, the main reason why it's not in there yet is that almost nobody has been asking for it It's definitely on the list and by the looks of it wouldn't be that much of an effort (though probably a bit more effort to integrate it very nicely).

Asking for it, very nicely