v6.63+dev0707 - July 7 2022

[Justin]

Originally Posted by vsgrt

Even when this is disabled in settings (and disabled individually on the plugin), this messes with the delay plugin "Fuse Audio Labs Bucket-500" (https://fuseaudiolabs.de/#/pages/product?id=300808669)

I also tried the different compatibility settings to no avail.

The echo feedback of the plugin cuts off as soon as the sound drops off.

Thanks! There are a couple of issues with the VST3 version of that plug-in, I'll email the developer to see if they can fix.

[Sexan]

Should item volume, mute etc also work?


I know if you enable "select one select all" does it (volume) but seems inconsistent since fade handle works.

Also cannot figure out why is this happening (not related to pre but related to grouping behavior):


"Select one select group" is enabled but this is happening (items get deselected)

[Sexan]

UI refresh is missing when moving items to tracks that are not in group (items are still highlighted)

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by Justin

Thanks! There are a couple of issues with the VST3 version of that plug-in, I'll email the developer to see if they can fix.

Sorry for bringing this up here Justin but I just remembered that the Soundtoys guys will contact you via email regarding the upcoming VST3 versions of their plug-ins. Apparently there are some problems with REAPER detecting and/or replacing instances from VST2 to VST3.

Carry on, people. Sorry to all.

[musicbynumbers]

Sexan.

I think it's good to have the option for both via the selected or not selected so we have the option. I hope that item envelopes too like volume could follow the same rule (at some point).

I don't know if I consider the fades to be inconsistent since those item edges are all in line with each other and also, if you have lots of splits, if the items are selected you can get unexpected behaviour when you might only want to edit the left edge you can also end up editing other edges if the items are selected.

I can see your point about being consistent, just think that always having both options should maybe overrule it in these cases. See what others say too.

[Sexan]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

Sexan.

I think it's good to have the option for both via the selected or not selected so we have the option. I hope that item envelopes too like volume could follow the same rule (at some point).

I don't know if I consider the fades to be inconsistent since those item edges are all in line with each other and also, if you have lots of splits, if the items are selected you can get unexpected behaviour when you might only want to edit the left edge you can also end up editing other edges if the items are selected.

I can see your point about being consistent, just think that always having both options should maybe overrule it in these cases. See what others say too.

I'm talking about volume handle, why is that different from fade? (fade works but volume does not, thats why I said inconsistent). Not the volume knob but volume handle when you are on top of the item


Its not new behavior in any case (item grouping works like this for a long time), just mentioning it

[musicbynumbers]

Ah. I see what you mean now. Good point!

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

Mainly this example would be so you can make the top track master/lead and the others below it slave/follow so that the master item acts as a container and master editing point for items below it.

Right, that's my point. You are looking for the Lead track/folder to act as a container (and also the workflow/feature I would be looking to use in this case as well). That's a very different feature than track-based edit groups. I don't think your expectations of this feature should be based on how containers/track folders function in other DAWs. Once the dust settles and the core functionality is refined, then have a go but for where this is right now, I don't think your use case applies.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Sexan

"Select one select group" is enabled but this is happening (items get deselected)

Fixing, thanks!

[Sexan]

Will track envelope work with this grouping at some point of development (as razor lead)?

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by Klangfarben

Right, that's my point. You are looking for the Lead track/folder to act as a container (and also the workflow/feature I would be looking to use in this case as well). That's a very different feature than track-based edit groups. I don't think your expectations of this feature should be based on how containers/track folders function in other DAWs. Once the dust settles and the core functionality is refined, then have a go but for where this is right now, I don't think your use case applies.

I was making a point for editing behaviours that still affect all types of group editing regardless of whether I want to make it work as a folder item or not

I also made the case for a more standard "everything controls everything" track/item grouping where the points I made are still valid regarding the behaviours.

It turns out that I just had some mouse modifiers set up for a particular behaviour and had forgot. I've now set them up better and so I'm happy with where it's at for fake folder items anyway.

I edit a massive amount of drums, multichannel audio (atmos and ambisonic) so I'm all up for proper track grouping too.

Been here long enough to know the difference between what you mentioned I'm well aware this is not folder items and there's no way I would expect it to become that and know from experience it won't but.. There are behaviours that work well enough for me to get some use out of it whilst still being useful for normal (whatever that is) track grouping

Besides, the leader/follower way of grouping literally allows for a master item and most of the time, for drums, acoustic, atmos etc I'd rather edit with a dummy master item anyway.

All good!

[srdmusic]

I'm still getting lots of glitches and print errors with auto bypass. When a plugin becomes active it sometimes will have an audio glitch at the start of when a midi note is playing back.

I think the problem when audio comes back it's not starting at a 0 crossing.

One solution maybe be to have auto bypass activate and deactivate based on region starts and ends instead of triggering from the audio passing through the plugin. This would allow a user to put a bar of region start before a midi note is triggered. Thus giving the plugin time to activate before audio needs to start.

Another possible solution would be to force all plugins to start audio playback at a 0 crossing before it becomes reactivated.

[Mercado_Negro]

@Sexan

This is why I was wondering if adding new options to the grouping dialog so the user can define what's actually included in the group for media items like "fades", "volume", "left edge", "right edge", "move item contents (slip audio)","split item", should be the best approach in this case.

[Klangfarben]

Originally Posted by sonictim

Also, it gives immediate visual feedback as to which tracks are in your group. If you click a track and a bunch of other ones light up... it lets you know it's part of a group (i mean, aside from the colored little ticks) and also lets you know whether grouping is suspended or not (because maybe they didn't all light up when you thought they should have)...

I think there are a couple issues with the visual indicators right now. In the GIF below all tracks are set to both lead/follow. When you highlight an item in the lead track you get a green outline for each item in the follow tracks. In the case of the first track being selected, it sort of visually indicates you've selected a group. However, when you go down and select the track below, now the selection does not look contiguous because you have a green outline for the track items above and below being "split" visually by the track that is highlighted.



I think a better option would be to just highlight the grouped items the same as the lead track is highlighted. There would be much less ambiguity there and the user would know they were grouped. You could also just put one green outline around the entirety of the grouped items instead of an individual outline for each grouped item but I think the simpler solution and the more expected one is if you highlight an item on the lead track, the follow track items are highlighted the same.

Also, the razor edit selection is a bit problematic as well. In the GIF below you can see when making the initial razor edit selection that it is only showing on the lead track, not the follow tracks. It only shows on the follow tracks after the razor edit selection has been made. So while making the selection, the user has no visual indicator showing them they are actually making a razor edit selection for the group. It would be much more elegant that when making the razor edit selection on the lead track, it shows the selection on the follow tracks WHILE the selection is being made. This would again make it very clear the user is making a grouped selection, not an individual track item selection.



There are a couple other options that might help with this down the road as well. For example, putting the group name in the TCP of the track itself (with an enable/disable). The difference between track based edit groups vs previous grouped elements is that grouped elements like volume, solo etc. can be seen in the TCP, while media item/razor edit groups can't. If the group name was displayed in the TCP, this would basically account for that. Another option would be a toggle action to override track colors with group colors so one could visually see the grouped tracks by color. Putting a simple group color selector in the track grouping parameters would allow users to customize coloring for the group and they could then toggle between track/group colors as needed.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by srdmusic

I'm still getting lots of glitches and print errors with auto bypass. When a plugin becomes active it sometimes will have an audio glitch at the start of when a midi note is playing back.

I think the problem when audio comes back it's not starting at a 0 crossing.

One solution maybe be to have auto bypass activate and deactivate based on region starts and ends instead of triggering from the audio passing through the plugin. This would allow a user to put a bar of region start before a midi note is triggered. Thus giving the plugin time to activate before audio needs to start.

Another possible solution would be to force all plugins to start audio playback at a 0 crossing before it becomes reactivated.

This indicates the plug-in in question is either not properly reporting its tail, or doesn't flush properly. If you can come up with specific examples we can try to narrow it down...

[srdmusic]

Originally Posted by Justin

This indicates the plug-in in question is either not properly reporting its tail, or doesn't flush properly. If you can come up with specific examples we can try to narrow it down...

Thanks for helping look into this. I'll find try to narrow down the specific plugins.

Question for you. Are vsti instruments allow to auto bypass? I'm wondering if it's kontakt or if it's the other plugins causing the glitches.

[MrTsonts]

In this version, the video stopped working for me. Just a black screen.

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by MrTsonts

In this version, the video stopped working for me. Just a black screen.

Not just you. it's being fixed.