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Old 08-09-2022, 10:24 AM   #1
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Default v6.64+dev0809 - August 9 2022

v6.64+dev0809 - August 9 2022
  • * Includes feature branch: track grouping manager dialog
  • * Includes feature branch: .SD2/PCM/RAW file support
  • * Includes feature branch: CLAP plugin support
  • * Includes feature branch: track media/razor edit grouping
  • * Includes feature branch: pan law/function improvements
  • * Includes feature branch: improve experimental silent-track CPU reduction option to include FX tail length
  • * Includes feature branch: media item fixed lanes
  • * Includes feature branch: internal pin management overhaul for future extension
  • + MIDI quantize: fix some unexpected behavior when quantizing all notes vs selected notes
  • + Media item fades: fade edits (without relative edge editing) affect other selected item fades as the edited position changes
  • + Media item fades: when not using relative edge edit mouse modifier, edit selected item fades only if the fade start and end both line up with the edited item
  • + Region manager: add option to add/remove child tracks to render list when adding/removing parent
  • + Region manager: disable option to display track dropdown list nested by folder, by default
  • + Region manager: when not displaying track dropdown list nested by folder, indent tracks in folders
  • + Track group manager: add option to add/remove child tracks when adding/removing folder track to group
  • + Track grouping manager: add option to display track dropdown list nested by folders
  • + Track grouping: add razor edit left-click mouse modifier to remove one area ignoring track grouping
  • # CLAP: send CLAP musical events to plugin note ports that prefer it, MIDI events to note ports that prefer it
  • # Clap: support clap_host::request_callback [p=2584761]
  • # MIDI: retroactive record does not input quantize when events were recorded during stop/etc
  • # MIDI: retroactive record note-interesting threshold is now 1 while stopped
  • # MIDI: retroactive record tracks notes/CCs/pitch across loop iterations
  • # MIDI: retroactive record treats CCs as interesting if they occur during playback
  • # MIDI: retroactive record will obey overdub for events recorded while stopped
  • # Track group manager: when option enabled to set track selection from group selection, update track selection more quickly
  • # Track grouping manager: adjust radio buttons for dark themes on Windows
  • # Track grouping manager: improve behavior when swipe-dragging below last group in list
  • # Track grouping manager: improve interaction between preference to select tracks when group selected, and grouping parameters dialog
This thread is for pre-release features discussion. Use the Feature Requests forum for other requests.

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode
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Old 08-09-2022, 10:42 AM   #2
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[*]# MIDI: retroactive record treats CCs as interesting if they occur during playback
Thanks very much for this. All of the use cases that were brought up yesterday applied only to transport playing, not stopped so I think this is a good compromise.
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Old 08-09-2022, 10:46 AM   #3
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You guys are really awesome!

First a bug with group manager:


If you do semi-fast (sometimes not even fast) clicks tracks get reselected


Regarding fades new non-relative mode not sure is it intended:


The only difference here is that smaller item does not move group fades when not selected but NEW non-relative mode works in both scenarios.

Is this intended or ?
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Old 08-09-2022, 10:55 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
If you do semi-fast (sometimes not even fast) clicks tracks get reselected
Hm, we have a little delay built in because of the quirks of listview selection notifications on various OS (for example I think macOS delays the selection change notification if multiple rows are selected, while it waits to see if the user is going to double-click). In any case the delay may be a live-with-it.

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The only difference here is that smaller item does not move group fades when not selected but NEW non-relative mode works in both scenarios.
Ah, I think we can improve that.
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Old 08-09-2022, 10:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klangfarben
Possible bug - "show track dropdown list nested by folders" shows nested folders whether enabled or disabled.
In non-nested view the list is broken into groups of 10 or 20 tracks for manageability. We could increase that to like 50 maybe?
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Old 08-09-2022, 11:12 AM   #6
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[*]+ Track group manager: add option to add/remove child tracks when adding/removing folder track to group
[*]+ Track grouping manager: add option to display track dropdown list nested by folders
Could we have options like these also for the normal (non group) track manager, as requested here?
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Old 08-09-2022, 11:16 AM   #7
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even more fun with retroactivity.

Quote:
# MIDI: retroactive record treats CCs as interesting if they occur during playback
ok bear with me, but much like the single note threshold, if you lifted this limitation, users could employ retroactive record to punch in precise CC values at specific time positions from the Arrange screen, rather than A, entering MIDI editor and drawing it in, or B, entering it during track record via controller. this would be so handy for confidently zeroing out pitchbends, creating stepped filter patterns, controlling other software/devices via CC in a quantized fashion...this would make working with certain CC based lighting systems/video samplers so much easier.

all MIDI is interesting, given the right application. i realize that would mean that retroactivity would be triggered at every first MIDI message - is there a downside to this that you're trying to mitigate with this "interest detection" filter? if not, i support "# MIDI: retroactive record message-interesting threshold is now 1 while stopped"

Quote:
# MIDI: retroactive record will obey overdub for events recorded while stopped
seems like under these conditions, retroactively recorded MIDI content gets inserted at item start rather than at edit cursor, as expected:



above, i am playing single MIDI notes, inserting retroactive MIDI, clearing buffer, advancing to the next position, and repeating. ISSUE: notes/edit cursor are returned to the item start.

when you remove the underlying MIDI item into which we're trying to overdub, you get something more expected: the notes are entered at the edit cursor position.



Quote:
# MIDI: retroactive record does not input quantize when events were recorded during stop/etc
# MIDI: retroactive record tracks notes/CCs/pitch across loop iterations
+ MIDI quantize: fix some unexpected behavior when quantizing all notes vs selected notes
all looking good here. this feature is bonkers and it came together so fast.
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Old 08-09-2022, 12:05 PM   #8
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Thanks for the tweaks on the group manager. Just wanted to make some overall comments that mirror some of the other users as this evolves.

While the nested folders option helps, the track dropdown list is pretty clunky, especially if you want to enable/disable a specific track in the group. Here is a simple example of adding track 5 to group 1 and then removing it from the group.



There are several problems with this. One, it's slow. It shouldn't take this long to simply add/remove a track from a group. Two, it is terrible when the user wants to add/remove multiple tracks from the group, which will then have to be done one at a time. This is a workflow killer. Three, with this horizontal track listing, there is no way to get a good overview of the tracks in the group. See below:



That is not at all ideal.

There are two things that would really help with this:

Add Selected to Group
First, on the top of the group manager, could you add a "add selected to group" button? This way, you could select the tracks you want to add, click on the group you want to add to, then they would be added to that group. Something like this.




Drop Arrow instead of drop-down list
Second, rather than the dropdown/nested drop-down, several of us have posted support for a down arrow in the group manager instead as proposed here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...4&postcount=17

So rather than having to spend extra time finding the tracks one at a time from a dropdown list, the user would just click the down arrow to show the tracks in the group and easily enable/disable them.



Compared to the horizontal track listing screenshot above, this is much, much better layout.

ALL Group
Another thing that has been requested a few times now by different users, could we get an ALL group and have it listed either at the top or bottom of the group manager list? Users could then enable the ALL group and easily perform edits across all of the tracks in the project.

Group Colors
It would be great if the group color shown in the Group Manager could be clicked to then edit the group color. Also, a contextual menu item to match group color to the first track in the group would be really appreciated.

Group Manager/Track Manager Parity
Obviously this is still evolving, but it would be great down the line to get a little more parity between the group manager and track manager so that in the group manager you could solo/mute group, show/hide group, lock group etc. as you can in the track manager.

One last thing, whatever happens with the drop-down list, in its current form, double-clicking to show the dropdown list makes no sense. One, because it doesn't comply to standard convention and two, because single click does absolutely nothing. So you are making the user double-click every time for no reason.

Thanks so much for being open-minded on this feature and incorporating so much of the user feedback here.
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Old 08-09-2022, 12:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
[*]# MIDI: retroactive record treats CCs as interesting if they occur during playback
Thanks so much for this!

Cheers,

Andrew K
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Old 08-09-2022, 12:21 PM   #10
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#CLAP

Still getting that odd missing parameter issue in the generic UI - a bit more investigation reveals something interesting (for some value of 'interesting'...) :

This is my list of parameter infos:

Code:
static const clap_param_info _param_info[paCount] =
{
  {
    paHPFreq, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE, 
    NULL,
    "HPFreq", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)HPFreqDefaultValNormalized
  },
  {
    paLPFreq, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE, 
    NULL,
    "LPFreq", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)LPFreqDefaultValNormalized
  },
  {
    paBypass, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE |
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_STEPPED, 
    NULL,
    "Effect", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)BypassDefaultValNormalized
  },
  {
    paOutTrim, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE,
    NULL,
    "Trim", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)OutTrimDefaultValNormalized
  },
  {
    paPhase, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE |
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_STEPPED, 
    NULL,
    "Polarity", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)PhaseDefaultValNormalized
  },
  {
    paHostBypass, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE |
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_STEPPED |
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_HIDDEN |
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_BYPASS,
    NULL,
    "Host Bypass", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)HostBypassDefaultValNormalized
  }
};
The "Host Bypass" parameter is hidden, as expected, but so is "Polarity". However, if I change the description for the Host Bypass to

Code:
{
    paHostBypass, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE,
    NULL,
    "Host Bypass", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)HostBypassDefaultValNormalized
}
Everything is displayed as expected.

But if I then change it to

Code:
{
    paHostBypass, 
    CLAP_PARAM_REQUIRES_PROCESS | 
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_AUTOMATABLE |
    CLAP_PARAM_IS_STEPPED,
    NULL,
    "Host Bypass", "",
    0.0, 1.0, (double)HostBypassDefaultValNormalized
}
It disappears again - which is odd, but the 'Polarity' parameter is now correctly displayed. Everything works in Bitwig, so Reaper seems to be doing something strange when evaluating the parameter list for its generic UI

Last edited by mike@overtonedsp; 08-09-2022 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 08-09-2022, 12:27 PM   #11
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RR is not recording any MIDI during Count-In (not to be confused with Pre-Roll).

Also, could this be expanded to the regular recording of MIDI? And for the regular recording of Audio?

Cheers,

Andrew K
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Last edited by Thonex; 08-09-2022 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 08-09-2022, 12:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
Add Selected to Group
I'm agree with all about grouping manager.

But I want to add, that button Add Selected to Group can be a small button with + icon near each group, so user can add tracks directly without selecting group and drag mouse to a button on top.
Just way to save time.
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Old 08-09-2022, 01:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
single click does absolutely nothing
Single click selects the row. It would be unexpected if certain columns are off limits for selecting the row (except for the enable column, which acts like all "dot" columns in REAPER and responds to a single click).
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Old 08-09-2022, 01:23 PM   #14
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if you're looking for these, i found a mismatch between active/retroactive behavior while in overdub mode.

here is active record in overdub mode. additional notes are recorded into (or beyond) a pre-existing MIDI item. note: the MIDI item is extended, this is expected.



here's the same process using retroactive record. note: once you record beyond outside the end bound of the original MIDI item, the retroactive insert action creates a new MIDI item instead of extending the previous item.



maybe relevant: i'm pretty sure v6.19 1229 was the pre where REAPER refined its treatment/extension of MIDI items while in overdub mode
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Old 08-09-2022, 03:15 PM   #15
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Default Track: Set track grouping parameters...

as long as you are working on the track group manager could you put a button for the
Track: Set track grouping parameters...
next to the Grouping matrix button.
Or put it in the contextual dropdown menu when I right-click on a group.
Thanks for being awesome.
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Old 08-09-2022, 03:47 PM   #16
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damn this update will be on fire. Supercool. Thanks a lot devs!
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Old 08-09-2022, 11:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STOP View Post
v6.64+dev0809 - August 9 2022
[*]# CLAP: send CLAP musical events to plugin note ports that prefer it, MIDI events to note ports that prefer it
Great, thanks.

However, with this current build, it seems that Pitch Bend and all other MIDI CC data is being ignored completely and doesn't reach the CLAP plugins anymore.
Tested with our u-he plugins and with Surge XT.
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Old 08-09-2022, 11:45 PM   #18
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[*]# MIDI: retroactive record treats CCs as interesting if they occur during playback
Thank you for having listened to us
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Old 08-10-2022, 01:49 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Klangfarben View Post
Thanks very much for this. All of the use cases that were brought up yesterday applied only to transport playing, not stopped so I think this is a good compromise.
Yes, this is perfect!
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Old 08-10-2022, 02:46 AM   #20
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The track group manager is an ok start. I won't ever use it to add/remove group members. For that I need to use the track group properties. The matrix is not specific enough and you have to do a dog look to read the tiny text on my 109 DPI monitor.

Just like PT. Neat for switching groups on and off. Thank you for that.

Still seems cluttered. I shouldn't be expecting total convenience however. What am I thinking. This is a great step forward.
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Old 08-10-2022, 03:14 AM   #21
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It would be really nice if toggle ALL groups on/off can be added somewhere in group manager

EDIT: One more thing current situation with opening envelopes on multiple tracks is little 50-50:

When right clicking on track envelope button it has all primary envelopes but opens only on one track (the one that has been right clicked) even some other elements activate on all selected tracks (on right click context)

If you do right click on a TCP and go into envelope context, there it opens on all tracks but some envelopes are missing (width, mute...)

Last edited by Sexan; 08-10-2022 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 08-10-2022, 03:38 AM   #22
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Thank you so much for the midi retroactive record actions and to Mr McCrabney for taking so much interest in them.
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Old 08-10-2022, 03:39 AM   #23
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What's about the idea to add the function "add selected tracks to group" into the right-click menu of the Track Group Manager?
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Old 08-10-2022, 03:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
It would be really nice if toggle ALL groups on/off can be added somewhere in group manager
+1

but "Options: Toggle item grouping override" works for track groups as well
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Old 08-10-2022, 03:53 AM   #25
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+1

but "Options: Toggle item grouping override" works for track groups as well
Or that yeah, just want to have them in 1 place for convenience
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Old 08-10-2022, 05:20 AM   #26
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Anyone else having problems with cc64 (sustain pedal)?

Either "live" or retroactive recording creates "fades" on playback so the sustain finishes before the transition to the next notes.
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Old 08-10-2022, 07:32 AM   #27
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Could we also get keyboard modifiers for the Group Manager? For example, ctrl-click to enable group and disable all others and alt-click to disable group and enable all others? For the time being, until there is an ALL group that would at least allow the user to make their own ALL group and more easily enable/disable it without all the other group interactions being active. This would also work well in the Track Manager.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Single click selects the row. It would be unexpected if certain columns are off limits for selecting the row (except for the enable column, which acts like all "dot" columns in REAPER and responds to a single click).
Thanks for the explanation. Are there other areas in Reaper where double-click is triggering what is essentially a contextual menu? I think that is the confusing part, at least for me. You could also make it so the right-click Group Manager options are shown only when right-clicking in the area above the group list and then use a different right-click contextual menu below in the group list, similar to other areas of Reaper (Arrange, timeline, etc.)
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Old 08-10-2022, 08:20 AM   #28
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May have missed this (apologies)...

Was it decided to Not display the Razor Edit on all grouped tracks while drawing it? Currently the act of drawing the RE is only displayed on the track under the mouse, and upon mouse release it propagates to the group. Is this intentional or just not yet addressed? Thanks!
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Old 08-10-2022, 09:38 AM   #29
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bkFX v0.7.2 ( https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=369138 ) CLAP versions are now loading (I honestly have no idea if it was a reaper or bkfx update that made them load ok), and work with a few quirks. I know we're not allowed to link to the +dev builds from anywhere, but can I link to this thread from KVR? If not publicly, PM to the dev?
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Old 08-10-2022, 10:42 AM   #30
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bkFX v0.7.2 ( https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=369138 ) CLAP versions are now loading (I honestly have no idea if it was a reaper or bkfx update that made them load ok), and work with a few quirks. I know we're not allowed to link to the +dev builds from anywhere, but can I link to this thread from KVR? If not publicly, PM to the dev?
PM to the dev is totally fine
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Old 08-10-2022, 11:03 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Was it decided to Not display the Razor Edit on all grouped tracks while drawing it? Currently the act of drawing the RE is only displayed on the track under the mouse, and upon mouse release it propagates to the group. Is this intentional or just not yet addressed? Thanks!
That is the intended behavior, yes. We tried having the razor edits mirror to grouped tracks while drawing them in a local build but it got very chaotic, because the mirrored razor edits can be above or below or overlapping with the area the user is actively drawing.
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Old 08-10-2022, 11:04 AM   #32
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That is the intended behavior, yes. We tried having the razor edits mirror to grouped tracks while drawing them in a local build but it got very chaotic, because the mirrored razor edits can be above or below or overlapping with the area the user is actively drawing.
Got you, thanks!
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Old 08-11-2022, 08:47 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Tas from planet u-he View Post
Great, thanks.

However, with this current build, it seems that Pitch Bend and all other MIDI CC data is being ignored completely and doesn't reach the CLAP plugins anymore.
Tested with our u-he plugins and with Surge XT.
Confirmed i.e. if my plugin supports both CLAP and MIDI dialects, but it prefers CLAP, then MIDI messages other than Note On/Off don't seem to to reach my plugin anymore. If I change it so my plugin prefers MIDI, then everything is fine. In BitWig both combinations seem to work.
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Old 08-11-2022, 10:02 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Tale View Post
Confirmed i.e. if my plugin supports both CLAP and MIDI dialects, but it prefers CLAP, then MIDI messages other than Note On/Off don't seem to to reach my plugin anymore. If I change it so my plugin prefers MIDI, then everything is fine. In BitWig both combinations seem to work.
Fixing, thanks.
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Old 08-11-2022, 01:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
damn this update will be on fire. Supercool. Thanks a lot devs!
Totally agree! Thanks so much, devs.
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Old 08-12-2022, 01:09 PM   #36
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It seems REAPER is not forwarding keyboard events to CLAPs properly. Tested with release version of Surge XT 1.1... try pressing Ctrl+F (I have this bound to a custom script in Reaper, but really have it bound to whatever else) to open Surge's patch finder, with VST3 it works just fine, with CLAP it doesn't. With VST3 it works even without "Send all keyboard input to plugin".

EDIT: Hm, this might actually be on Surge side, since it seems the above is not the case with u-he CLAP vs VST2...

Last edited by EvilDragon; 08-12-2022 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 08-12-2022, 01:20 PM   #37
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Is there any CLAP API with respect to keyboard messages? REAPER is not doing anything with CLAP keyboard input other than passing OS keyboard messages (Windows WM_KEYDOWN, etc) directly to the plugin's window.
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Old 08-12-2022, 03:47 PM   #38
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baconpaul says "Nope, it's just a window"...

Weird, though. If I wanna press Ctrl+F in Surge VST3, it works as intended, in CLAP it passes right through and executes Reaper's bound action (if exists). Not to mention, if you set the spacebar as a global shortcut, with VST3 you can still type spaces in text edit fields... but not with CLAP. At least not Surge. Hmmm...

EDIT: I've just printed out stuff from our SurgeGUIEditor::keyPressed() method. Looks like in CLAP it's only printing one event, but with VST3 each keypress is printed two times (so keyPressed() seems to be called twice, somehow?), and spacebar is also printed out (but that one only shows once not twice in the printout). Weird.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 08-12-2022 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 08-12-2022, 03:55 PM   #39
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The VST API communicates keystrokes. My guess would be that the plugin supports the VST API keyboard communication but ignores OS keyboard messages sent to the window, or maybe processes the key down message but misses the key up message?

Maybe a CLAP keystroke API should exist?
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Old 08-12-2022, 04:08 PM   #40
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I get the double printout only on a key down with VST3, not key up. Curious. (This is all JUCE of course, so any keystroke handling is funneled through from JUCE abstraction down to the individual plugin wrappers to plugin specific APIs. Except the unofficial CLAP extension for JUCE doesn't seem to do any of that, apparently?)

But valid point about the potential necessity of a keystroke API for CLAP.
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