v6.73+dev0109 - January 9 2023

[vitalker]

Awesome! It's so cool that razor edits can be used while comping.

[Embass]

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

These are the new mouse modifiers which replaced razor edits, no need to use actions for comping, there's a new comping tool in Arrange context which works when you activate a lane for comping from the lane header menu.



Comp area got it's own context as well

So if you assign "Create fixed-lane comp area" to replace your Create Razor Edit MM, will it default back to a normal "Create Razor Area" outside the context of fixed lane comping?

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Embass

embass screencap

I can't immediately reproduce that. Can you tell whether one specific mouse action is triggering the extra copies?

[edit] never mind, I think I got it. The copies are created when moving the right edge of a comp area that has an adjacent comp area to the left.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by ferropop

So if you assign "Create fixed-lane comp area" to replace your Create Razor Edit MM, will it default back to a normal "Create Razor Area" outside the context of fixed lane comping?

Nope it's two separate tools and you can use them together, one for editing and one for comping

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by ferropop

So if you assign "Create fixed-lane comp area" to replace your Create Razor Edit MM, will it default back to a normal "Create Razor Area" outside the context of fixed lane comping?

Comp areas are now a dedicated feature. You can have both razor edits and comp areas at the same time at same place.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Nope it's two separate tools and you can use them together, one for editing and one for comping

...but we need different mouse modifiers for basically doing the same thing - drawing a box. I would envision when you're in Comping Mode your Razor modifiers work as Create Comp Area, and when not in comping mode they work as normal Razors.

like, do we now need Alt-Shift-WinKey as opposed to just Alt-Shift, to differentiate between "Create Comp Area Ignoring Snap" vs "Create Razor Edit Ignoring Snap"?

[schwa]

Originally Posted by ferropop

...but we need different mouse modifiers for basically doing the same thing - drawing a box. I would envision when you're in Comping Mode your Razor modifiers work as Create Comp Area, and when not in comping mode they work as normal Razors.

If you want to work this way you can, by drawing regular razor edits and then clicking on them with (by default) ctrl+shift+click. If you don't click on them they are regular razor edits, if you do then they are comp areas.

[ferropop]

Like, what happened in this pre with adding the Main (Alt-1) stuff for Action Shortcut swapping, should probably also happen with Mouse Modifiers?

So when you're comping you use all the same keys/modifiers/mouse-drags to "draw the box" as you do with normal razor "draw the box". You just switch between MM sets depending on what you're doing. Same with manipulating envelopes - a set dedicated to manipulating points using all the familiar shortcut/mouse combinations, but triggering envelope-specific things.

This just adds another layer of Finger Twister if we need new mappings to basically do the same thing - draw a box.

[Odys]

Originally Posted by ferropop

...but we need different mouse modifiers for basically doing the same thing - drawing a box. I would envision when you're in Comping Mode your Razor modifiers work as Create Comp Area, and when not in comping mode they work as normal Razors.

like, do we now need Alt-Shift-WinKey as opposed to just Alt-Shift, to differentiate between "Create Comp Area Ignoring Snap" vs "Create Razor Edit Ignoring Snap"?

Read change-log.
[*]+ Media item lanes: if a comping lane exists, create comp areas via shift+control+right-drag, or shift+control+click on a razor edit area (see mouse modifiers for arrange view right-drag, razor edit area left-click)

[ferropop]

All this said this looks incredible.

Question - is there still a way to preview a Razor Edit Area (temporarily overriding the comp in the area) without "committing it" to the comp?

That was really nice in the pre from a few days ago - auditioning without automatically committing.

This, together with the fast swipey stuff, gives us max flexibility I believe. It would improve on Logic's almost-perfect swipe comping, if Razors (or something) allowed for a "soft-commit".

[vitalker]

Is it possible to distinguish arrange view and arrange view when comp is enabled? Now you just lose one modifier and using it in other areas just activate right-click menu. Perhaps an additional context for arrange view comp lane?

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by ferropop

...but we need different mouse modifiers for basically doing the same thing - drawing a box. I would envision when you're in Comping Mode your Razor modifiers work as Create Comp Area, and when not in comping mode they work as normal Razors.

like, do we now need Alt-Shift-WinKey as opposed to just Alt-Shift, to differentiate between "Create Comp Area Ignoring Snap" vs "Create Razor Edit Ignoring Snap"?

I think the biggest advantage compared to REs for comping is that you can see your comps and edit them further (move a comp to different lane or drag it horizontally to select another part of the item, which is a big deal)

[vitalker]

[Duplicated report]

[Vagelis]

^^ Already reported.

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

^^ Already reported.

Ah yeah, you've had text version.

[Odys]

In "comp mode" do we really need modifiers for basics? Just right click and drag to swipe-comp, left click to select takes would be enough. Modifiers would be useful for extra options for example shift-click to preview specific take.

[Arthur McArthur]

Originally Posted by schwa

If I'm understanding correctly, you are saying that you want to mouse-click but instead you do a tiny mouse-drag? The mouse-drag initiates after the cursor moves 4 pixels, which we would probably not want to increase.

Yeah it feels too easy to initiate the drag on the comp lane areas. It results in frequent missed clicks (maybe 4 out of 10). I don't find this to be the case when clicking on regular items, it is specifically just the comp lane areas where I notice this. Here's a gif where I show the difference: https://imgur.com/a/Z884rhr

It also looks like the "no action" modifier on left drag fixed comp lane area isn't working. The area still moves on left drag even if "no action" is selected.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

I think the biggest advantage compared to REs for comping is that you can see your comps and edit them further (move a comp to different lane or drag it horizontally to select another part of the item, which is a big deal)

Some idea that maybe could solve the case for using the same key modifiers is if we had another context that splits the comp area at top and bottom area and assign different modifiers. E.g Top-comp tool and bottom-RE.

More powerful would be to (with a single key) swap your Razor Areas for Comp Areas, and using all the familiar key/mouse combos to do essentially the same thing. This seems much more functional to me, as it's task-oriented.

I get it though, keeping those things separate is smart, especially if Razors had the (temporary) function of creating an area preview as they did a couple pres ago.

Swipe swipe swipe, go back later if you didn't like a phrase and "temporary preview razor" (without comitting) - and actions to move the temporary preview up/down (as it worked a few days ago), chef's kiss.

[Vagelis]

Thinking about my idea above can't happen because you would have to create a comp area each time and then use RE. But if we had the new swipe comp modifier in left drag media item context, we could then assign the top area to comp and the bottom to RE.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by schwa

The behavior is intentional, for this use case:

I think you should have to be swiping in a non-comped track for that to work. Looks non-intuitive as is imo

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Arthur McArthur

It also looks like the "no action" modifier on left drag fixed comp lane area isn't working. The area still moves on left drag even if "no action" is selected.

We could fix this but... why would you set the mouse modifier to "no action" ?

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by schwa

We could fix this but... why would you set the mouse modifier to "no action" ?

And here an additional context for arrange view comp lane would be useful.

[Arthur McArthur]

Originally Posted by schwa

We could fix this but... why would you set the mouse modifier to "no action" ?

It was an attempted band-aid for the left click issue I described, but other than that you're right there is probably no good reason to set it to that.

[sockmonkey72]

Originally Posted by ferropop

More powerful would be to (with a single key) swap your Razor Areas for Comp Areas, and using all the familiar key/mouse combos to do essentially the same thing. This seems much more functional to me, as it's task-oriented.

I get it though, keeping those things separate is smart, especially if Razors had the (temporary) function of creating an area preview as they did a couple pres ago.

Swipe swipe swipe, go back later if you didn't like a phrase and "temporary preview razor" (without comitting) - and actions to move the temporary preview up/down (as it worked a few days ago), chef's kiss.

I just posted a script to help manage MM settings and generate Toggle Actions to swap them in and out; maybe it's useful for this purpose.

[hans]

Originally Posted by [*

+ Keyboard: add multiple alternate main keyboard sections, add actions to switch between them both persistently and momentarily

Amazing updates as always! Thanks!

Cool with alternative keyboard sections! Time to get deep down customization-hole again hehe!

While you're at it, would it be possible to have different alternative sections for mouse modifiers too? Sorry if this is seen as an off topic future request.

[Edgemeal]

Fixed Lane context menu: "Copy into a new copy of this lane"

If I use that option on a comp lane it copies the items in the lane, but the comp areas aren't copied, shouldn't the comp areas also be copied/shown for this new comp lane ?

[FeedTheCat]

This is great!

First thought: What is the benefit of the actual comp lane belonging to the "Fixed lane comp area"? Wouldn't it be better to have usual mouse modifiers work there?

Hmm, I guess the idea currently is that the "comping state" is temporary and should be turned off once you're done.

[IrishRover79]

It really feels like Christmas again today! Not only does this version of swipe comping absolutely rock. We're also getting alternative keyboard shortcut sets! This has reminded me why I love Reaper :-)

A few thoughts regarding lanes.

1.Please could it be a bit easier to reorder lanes? Some people might prefer to have takes in the first few lanes and comps in the last few; others may prefer to have comps at the top. I get that you probably want to keep the lanes system as flexible as possible and not have separate sections for takes and comps. But it would be really nice if we could drag lanes up and down and reorder them in the same way we can do with tracks.

2. Related to that, one of the best things about the new system is the ability to revisit comps and readjust boundaries etc so that your comps are stored and editable. Thanks so much for that! However, I've noticed that this ability is tied to the particular lane you comped to. if you move your comp down to a different lane, you lose that ability. Perhaps this might be another reason to make it possible to drag the lane (with its items) around and reposition it as you want to?

3. Personally, I'm still not loving the lane numbering. It's nice that we can rename lanes so we get a pop up but I find that the numbers quickly become meaningless. At first, after recording, they correspond nicely to your takes. But as soon as you insert an empty lane at the top to comp to, they become pretty useless IMHO. If we can't have edited name fields for the lanes, could it perhaps be an option to turn the display of the numbers off?

Not sure if you're looking for comments on multitrack comping yet, but it seems to be working now and feels really good to me. My only thought relates to renaming of lanes. Currently, this only seems to work in a single track way. So if you important three takes of multitrack drums and want to label lane 1 on each track as take 1, lane 2 as take 2, and lane 3 as take 3, you have to do this track by track. It would obviously be a lot more efficient if the lane renaming obeyed track edit grouping.

Thanks so much!

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by Odys

bug

I tried to brighten the colors in the theme editor for selected comps but never could figure out a way to get them brighter. The way they are in this example is just too dark for me. Is there a way to get them just not quite as bright as the top selection but brighter than they are?

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by Odys

In "comp mode" do we really need modifiers for basics? Just right click and drag to swipe-comp, left click to select takes would be enough. Modifiers would be useful for extra options for example shift-click to preview specific take.

I really don't like right click or drag. Every other app I have used is left click and drag and it just makes sense and I have finer control since I have done the motion thousands of times vs zero times for right drag.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Is there a way to get them just not quite as bright as the top selection but brighter than they are?

Yes that would be nice +1

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by hans

Amazing updates as always! Thanks!

Cool with alternative keyboard sections! Time to get deep down customization-hole again hehe!

While you're at it, would it be possible to have different alternative sections for mouse modifiers too? Sorry if this is seen as an off topic future request.

What is this please?

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by schwa

The behavior is intentional, for this use case:

Well yes.... but... why not draw the area onto lane 3 directly? It also felt like a bug to me when I first encountered it.

There's also a UX issue imo:

Let's say that you're drawing in comp areas with ctrl+shift+right-drag. If these areas aren't precise enough (which will happen a lot), you then have to carefully move your mouse cursor to the edge of the area and adjust with shift+left-drag.

I would be much faster to be able to extend areas with same "action" you create them with. Like this (but without creating residual split points):



If not default behavior it could also be an additional mouse modifier action, e.g. "Create/extend fixed lane comp"?

Speaking of mouse modifiers... a "right drag" option for the "Fixed lane comp area" would be incredible Something that let's us use right-drag without ctrl+shift.

[bolgwrad]

Mmm, in case nobody else mentions it, the comp lane indicator is spot on, thanks.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Well yes.... but... why not draw the area onto lane 3 directly? It also felt like a bug to me when I first encountered it.

There's also a UX issue imo:

Let's say that you're drawing in comp areas with ctrl+shift+right-drag. If these areas aren't precise enough (which will happen a lot), you then have to carefully move your mouse cursor to the edge of the area and adjust with shift+left-drag.

I would be much faster to be able to extend areas with same "action" you create them with. Like this (but without creating residual split points):



If not default behavior it could also be an additional mouse modifier action, e.g. "Create/extend fixed lane comp"?

Speaking of mouse modifiers... a "right drag" option for the "Fixed lane comp area" would be incredible Something that let's us use right-drag without ctrl+shift.

If you draw a comp and then draw again from outside the comp I would expect to draw a new comp until you overlap the existing one and then it should just take over the existing one and let you create a new boundary when you let go of the mouse. Alternatively if you start drawing inside a comp I would expect it to throw out the existing comp and let you draw one fresh.

[FeedTheCat]

Also, with the bigger picture in mind, I think it's an absolute necessity to be able to hide the "unused" lanes and only show the comp lane.

I doubt I would ever use this feature if it makes my arrange view look like this :

[Jae.Thomas]

ok, so I think I have a lot of screwy modifiers, but here is my workflow for making this happen and it seems odd.

I have 6 lanes -

I am going to activate comp mode by...

right clicking the area near the lanes and clicking "Comp into new empty lane"

which doesn't create a new lane but seems to highlight the top line instead:



when I make more and move them around, they delete portions of the top line, which is its own "take"

[_Stevie_]

It's a bug:
https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=14

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Well yes.... but... why not draw the area onto lane 3 directly? It also felt like a bug to me when I first encountered it.

I agree, I had the same sentiment.