v6.73+dev0114 - January 14 2023

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

Your gif describes well the audition problem A lot of mouse clicks!
And you forgot about time selection.

Hmm, what should be special about time selection? Time selection auto-punch already works as I'd expect it to.

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

We should remember that we have three record modes and three options for overlapping recorded items.
They help a lot for comping and they should work well and effective with lanes system.

True

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Hmm, what should be special about time selection? Time selection auto-punch already works as I'd expect it to.

When we recording several whole takes, it's useful if last created lane will be solo.
But when we doing punch-ins we need to hear that lane which is good but needs to rerecorded in some fragment. That way we can get more suitable character of punch in.

So there is common situation if we need to rerec some part several times, but not in cycle, just with stops and some comments between tryings.
It's unconvenient if after each pass the solo lane will change, as it is now.

Also it's rather obvious if we have a comp lane and we use time selection auto-punch mode, we wold like to promote the recorded part in time selection to that comp lane. So let's do it automatically!

But as we have lanes which allow to place every newly recorded items to a new lane, it will be better for overview to store in lanes full rec pass that can be longer than time selection.


The same behavior can be with selected item auto-punch mode.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by mlprod

Why?

If you're punching in a single word, the intention is that you want that word immediately promoted.

Otherwise, why did you set a time selection?

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Hmm, what should be special about time selection? Time selection auto-punch already works as I'd expect it to.





True

This has the exact drawback of the old comping.

Why not just capture the entire recording pass, from moment of recording, to moment of stopping?

And then auto-promote the Time Selection! (if there is one)

This way we have our old friend Time Selection Auto-Punch recreated perfectly, but we have the entire recording pass right there, in its own lane.

Having to "pull the edges outwards" from the punch to reveal the whole take is I guess ok, but why? Everything is in dedicated lanes, just show us the whole recording pass - and if there was a Time Selection, auto-promote that piece.

[ferropop]

Scenario : you get someone to punch in a word.

They can't just sing the word - you have to get them to sing a few words before and after, so that you can comp/crossfade it naturally. Really often you might need a syllable before/after the punch to actually make it work! Sometimes more, even the whole phrase.

Being able to see the "before and after" stuff from the start of hitting record, to stop record makes a lot of sense now that we have the luxury of lanes.

The "only show the Time Selected portion" behaviour comes from Item Containers and Splits being the take boundaries, which was the most frustrating part of the old comping workflow. If there was a word "before" or "after" the punch area, you'd have to drag edges and be constantly fighting other splits to even get to it - sometimes to the point of impossibility.

[Funkybot]

+1

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Scenario : you get someone to punch in a word.

They don't just sing the word - you have to get them to sing a few words before and after, so that you can comp/crossfade it naturally. Really often you might need a syllable before/after the punch to actually make it work! Sometimes more.

Being able to see the "before and after" stuff from the start of hitting record, to stop record makes a lot of sense now that we have the luxury of lanes.

The "only show the Time Selected portion" behaviour comes from Item Containers and Splits being the take boundaries, which was the most frustrating part of the old comping workflow. If there was a word "before" or "after" the punch area, you'd have to drag edges and be constantly fighting other splits to even get to it - sometimes to the point of impossibility.

Yes

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Why not just capture the entire recording pass, from moment of recording, to moment of stopping?

And then auto-promote the Time Selection!

That makes a lot of sense. No need to cut away the part before or after.

Originally Posted by ferropop

This has the exact drawback of the old comping.

My hope is that splits become much less annoying. E.g. imo it makes a lot of sense for recording to remove splits, as the comp lane should always contain exactly what you just recorded:

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by FeedTheCat

Seems weird to me, why would you not want the last recorded item to always get promoted?

Deleting the overlapped comping boundaries does not seem appropriate.
-Michael

[benmiller]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Why not just capture the entire recording pass, from moment of recording, to moment of stopping?

isn't this exactly what happens with the normal record behaviour? no time selection auto punch.
draw a stime selection, move the cursor back, activate looping, and record.
the recorded lane will be from cursor to end of loop, other lanes are just the loop section.

maybe there could just be a new reocrding mode, "record mode: time selection auto promote"

[fricia]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Deleting the overlapped comping boundaries does not seem appropriate.

Very much agree! When doing punch-ins you'd probably want access to the old comp, especially, when the rerecorded part overlaps multiple comping areas. Otherwise you might loose a lot of work editing takes together.

[mlprod]

Originally Posted by ferropop

This has the exact drawback of the old comping.

Why not just capture the entire recording pass, from moment of recording, to moment of stopping?

And then auto-promote the Time Selection! (if there is one)

This way we have our old friend Time Selection Auto-Punch recreated perfectly, but we have the entire recording pass right there, in its own lane.

Having to "pull the edges outwards" from the punch to reveal the whole take is I guess ok, but why? Everything is in dedicated lanes, just show us the whole recording pass - and if there was a Time Selection, auto-promote that piece.

I disagree, the whole recording is there already today outside the time selection. But if one set a time selection for recording they have hopefully done that for a reason. Even though there are lanes, I think the reason to use TS auto punch is to keep thing visually "tidy".
I just don't see a reason to change things that already works I guess...

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by benmiller

isn't this exactly what happens with the normal record behaviour? no time selection auto punch.
draw a stime selection, move the cursor back, activate looping, and record.
the recorded lane will be from cursor to end of loop, other lanes are just the loop section.

maybe there could just be a new reocrding mode, "record mode: time selection auto promote"

Time selection is not always about looping. I need some sound before and after TS to make perfect crossfades.
In normal record mode we can't hear any recorded material from the track, in TS mode we can and artist can start playing/singing/talking with himself to cath the right flow.

Originally Posted by fricia

Very much agree! When doing punch-ins you'd probably want access to the old comp, especially, when the rerecorded part overlaps multiple comping areas. Otherwise you might loose a lot of work editing takes together.

What if you just got a new recorded take in a new lane as we have now, and you want to comp it with previous comp, but to save access for existing comp?
It's the same situation.
If I guess I have good comp and I want to save it I have to copy it in a new lane. It works as now as with auto-promoting the time selection.

Originally Posted by mlprod

I just don't see a reason to change things that already works I guess...

We are suggest the feature doesn't contradict existing stuff.
It seems you just don't use recording in time selection regularly, is it?

Moreover here is no already works features, as we are talking about not yet released stuff. Schwa said that!

[Vagelis]

Hi Schwa! I was wondering, is there any plan of adding this to the next builds?... (Hopefully )
A small icon to change to edit mode would be very handy.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...50&postcount=4

[Coachz]

Preroll and postroll is critical to musicians to provide context to the punch in. Volume to play at, timing, feel, correct phrase to complement what comes before and after the punch and all that groovy stuff.

[mlprod]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

We are suggest the feature doesn't contradict existing stuff.
It seems you just don't use recording in time selection regularly, is it?

Yes I do, and I like it the way it is. Just my opinion obviously.

[Vagelis]

There's a bug with comp lane update when there's a gap between comp areas.

EDIT: Actually i think it happens when dragging the edge of a comp area after the start of another comp area.

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Deleting the overlapped comping boundaries does not seem appropriate.
-Michael

Originally Posted by fricia

Very much agree! When doing punch-ins you'd probably want access to the old comp, especially, when the rerecorded part overlaps multiple comping areas. Otherwise you might loose a lot of work editing takes together.

Here's my train of thought:

If you record a couple of new takes for a phrase, you will want to AB-compare them quickly afterwards, not start dragging out splits in order to do so. These splits were created for previous takes and might not have any value for new ones.



If your old comp is actually decent, and you'd like to keep it, you should "Comp into a new copy of this lane" prior to recording. This way you get to keep your old comp untouched and you can go back and use previous splits if necessary. But even more importantly from a workflow perspective: Inside the new comp, you can now AB-compare your new recorded takes with the old comped take in just one click.

I do agree that there's scenarios where you don't want to change the comp at all.

There is a very simple solution to this. Just turn comping off prior to recording. Your comp should stay unaffected.

Automatic creation of comp-areas and promotion for recorded items is only technically possible when a lane is enabled for comping.

-SplitHater

[FeedTheCat]

Btw, "Comp into a new copy of this lane" should auto-sync it's comp areas, right?

[Vagelis]

Another bug, when I set a comp area to edit mode, if I move another item in comp lane and pass through it, is being removed by the target item of the edit area.

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by mlprod

Yes I do, and I like it the way it is. Just my opinion obviously.

Hmm... Could you describe what exactly do you like?
There may be possibilities to combine different good sides.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by mlprod

Yes I do, and I like it the way it is. Just my opinion obviously.

Yeah I just disagree - the "tidyness" comes from collapsing (eventually).

Hiding stuff that you did record, when the new luxury of lanes is that you don't need to hide anything anymore, seems backwards to me.

Like look, it's not the worst thing in the world - but why hide information that could/should be there and could be useful to see "oh that punch in DOES have the extra word -- you can see it RIGHT THERE " vs having to go hunting.

And yup just opinion here too. But, this is like being a painter, being offered the luxury of "as many palettes as you like" and still insisting on having "just enough to paint with" on each one. Why?

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Deleting the overlapped comping boundaries does not seem appropriate.
-Michael

But maybe it could be when hitting the record button with the "create Comping Area" Mouse Modifier.
-Michael