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Old 11-25-2022, 09:31 AM   #1
leejul
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Default Added function for Write automation mode to change behavior

When I record an automation in Write mode, the value of the last envelope point corresponds to the value of the first envelope point of my automation.
So I always have to edit the last envelope point manually so that the value of the last point is the one I wrote with the mouse or my X-Touch control surface.
This is not the normal behavior of Write mode in a DAW.
Normally, in Write mode, the value of the last point should always respect the position of the control surface fader or the mouse cursor.
So, is it possible to add a function in the preferences which would allow not to modify the value of the last point according to the value of the first in order to have a normal behavior of the Write automation mode function.
Thanks.

Last edited by leejul; 11-27-2022 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 11-26-2022, 07:18 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leejul View Post
Reaper always adds 1 point to the start and end of my automation as soon as I press stop in Write mode automation.
it sounds like you were recording automation while your project was playing, and that you then hit stop. that's not what these options refer to. these preferences apply to the recording of automation points while the project playback is already stopped, like this:

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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.
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Old 11-27-2022, 09:17 AM   #3
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Thanks for your explanation. So, I changed my issue.
Maybe there is a function in Reaper that I don't know about that allows changing the write automation mode behavior to get the normal write mode behavior.
If so, I will delete my post.
Thanks.
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Old 11-27-2022, 01:15 PM   #4
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__EDIT__
for those reading, you can track other posts on this issue here:

the most detailed post in tips/tricks: https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=252010
a bug report: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=273056
another bug report, from 2017: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=192204
a post in general: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=254798
a feature request: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=251752
a "why is this happening" thread: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=190663
a post in newbieland: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=274395
__END__


no, REAPER cannot record automation as performed.

this can be demonstrated by recording both fx automation and MIDI cc simultaneously, using the same fader. the CC will stay where you left it, but the automation will return to its starting location, unprompted.

REAPER will always insert automation content that the user did not record, bringing the automation level back to the so-called "default" value that you started with.

this means that it is impossible to record even the most basic fade shape without subsequent editing to force the envelope to behave as expected. it's incredibly frustrating and serves to limit the usefulness of hardware controls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leejul View Post
This is not the normal behavior of Write mode in a DAW. Normally, in Write mode, the value of the last point should always respect the position of the control surface fader or the mouse cursor.
agreed, the current behavior is wrong. the last envelope point recorded should reflect the last value received by the controller, with a square shape so that the value is unchanging til the next automation point, if one exists. this is the way that MIDI ccs behave and have behaved in hardware sequencers for decades.

investigate the following actions: these don't work on automation items, but they may be helpful if you're using traditional envelopes instead.

* Automation: Write current values for actively-writing envelopes from cursor to end of project
* Automation: Write current values for actively-writing envelopes to time selection

you can use these actions to suffix every automation recording pass you record so that you can get more expected results.
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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.

Last edited by mccrabney; 01-03-2023 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 11-27-2022, 02:12 PM   #5
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That's what I thought. Then this behavior needs to be changed as this is not the normal behavior of automation in Write mode.
Thank you for your help.
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Old 12-02-2022, 09:23 AM   #6
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respectfully, there's no need to bump this issue. it's been reported by several users. i've written about it extensively for a few years. the devs are aware of the problem but have not commented.

if anything, it might be more helpful for more users to chime in on how this prevents them from achieving their desired automation recording workflow.

meanwhile, i've stored my mixer-style MIDI controller in the closet. interestingly, in the time since, the faders haven't returned to their "default value," and have stayed where i left them
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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.
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Old 01-03-2023, 08:42 AM   #7
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Still happens here (6.73).
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Old 01-08-2023, 03:50 PM   #8
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This issue should be bumped and bumped again until it is fixed.
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Old 01-19-2023, 06:52 AM   #9
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Bump, should be fixed
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Old 01-19-2023, 07:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Bump, should be fixed
Thank you Coachz for your support.
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Old 02-01-2023, 12:24 PM   #11
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bump
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Old 02-04-2023, 04:15 PM   #12
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Hmm I assume this is a controller that doesn't have feedback, which is why the value of the fader and the existing values differ? Could you use soft-takeover, perhaps?
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Old 02-05-2023, 05:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
Is there a setting or pref to have it so when I stop the transport while I'm writing automation (Touch mode for examples) that it doesn't add another automation point equal to where it started?



I don't want that last point (in red) added upon stop.
Justin, this is what OP is referring to. it's not a controller issue, it's a "how REAPER records automation" issue.
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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.
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Old 02-05-2023, 05:48 AM   #14
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ah the OP wants recording automation to affect all later times, assuming there isn’t already automation there? iirc there’s an option for that but I’ll double check.

iirc this was the behavior a long time ago, but we updated it to be the current behavior because the current behavior is much more predictable!
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Old 02-05-2023, 05:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
ah the OP wants recording automation to affect all later times, assuming there isn’t already automation there? iirc there’s an option for that but I’ll double check.

iirc this was the behavior a long time ago, but we updated it to be the current behavior because the current behavior is much more predictable!
predictably unwanted! please compare to what happens when you record a CC curve. i beg you to read this thread in its entirety.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=252010

posts 19 and 20 maybe contain the most info

what we are looking for is the same behavior in recording Automation that we see when recording MIDI CCs: the last point recorded sets the parameter til either end of AI, end of project, or til next envelope point: just like a CC would.
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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.

Last edited by mccrabney; 02-05-2023 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 02-05-2023, 06:24 AM   #16
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Should be doable to add this as an option, stay tuned
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Old 02-05-2023, 06:39 AM   #17
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i will. thank you, this will be a real relief.

i'd argue that it should be default experience to get the same shape-result, whether we record CC or automation. currently, we do not: here's the difference, shown with the same ReaControlMIDI movement.

CC: last-value dictates param til next value/end of item/end of project:



----------------------
automation: last value is overridden by previous value, in opposition to what was recorded.



this is the same movement via ReaControlMIDI (or fader, ui etc), done for the same purpose (device automation), but it results in different content.

note that there are no FRs for "CC return/return speed." return speed is the exception, and should be the option - not the default.

also, please note that, absent an intentionally set return speed value, any content being created ahead of the play cursor is unwanted. even if the return value is turned off, we shouldn't see AIs being created ahead of the play cursor:



recorded AIs should end cleanly at time of pause/stop/end of loop, with the last-received automation value at endpoint.
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mccrabney scripts: MIDI edits from the Arrange screen ala jjos/MPC sequencer
|sis - - - anacru| isn't what we performed: pls no extra noteons in loop recording
| - - - - - anacru|sis <==this is what we actually performed.
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