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Old 02-17-2023, 11:56 AM   #1
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Default v6.75+dev0217 - February 17 2023

v6.75+dev0217 - February 17 2023

* Includes feature branch: resizable render progress/statistics window
* Includes feature branch: improvements to aligning takes after recording
* Includes feature branch: improved mousewheel and gesture accuracy
* Includes feature branch: arrange view override mouse modifier sections
* Includes feature branch: toolbar armed/special animations
* Includes feature branch: text/control alignment improvements
* Includes feature branch: pooled and unpooled ARA edits
* Includes feature branch: fixed lane comping
* Includes feature branch: shortcut import/export improvements and multiple main keyboard sections
* Includes feature branch: improve samplerate change behavior when loading projects
* Includes feature branch: MIDI editor screenset improvements
* Includes feature branch: preview item selection for grouped tracks
* Includes feature branch: GR metering as embedded UI for third-party VSTs
* Includes feature branch: media item fixed lanes
+ Media item lanes: retain/restore comp areas when editing other media items on comping lane
# Automation items: re-improve glue/draw behavior when in AI-only envelope mode [t=254996]
# Media item lanes: improve comp area sync after razor edit
# Media item lanes: revert ability to edit media items within comp areas on comping lane
# Media item lanes: revert syncing media item edits in comping lane with source lanes

Full Changelog - Pre-Releases - Feature Requests - Generated by WhatsNew2
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:27 PM   #2
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Slip editing (while in comp mode) breaks crossfade.

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Old 02-17-2023, 12:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Slip editing (while in comp mode) breaks crossfade.
I think that's as expected, because the crossfade is part of the comp area, not the media items. If you want to edit the comped item without affecting the crossfades between comp areas, you need to either exit comp mode, or edit the item in the source lane.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:36 PM   #4
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Selecting all items in comp lane, and attempting to move the items.


Not sure what I did exactly, but moving items around in comp lane, ended in a crash. Not sure this helps...
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x000000000090c724
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:41 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I think that's as expected, because the crossfade is part of the comp area, not the media items. If you want to edit the comped item without affecting the crossfades between comp areas, you need to either exit comp mode, or edit the item in the source lane.
I'm just not sure what the purpose of being able to edit the media items is then, while in comp mode? I guess I don't follow when the above behaviour would possibly be desirable.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
# Automation items: re-improve glue/draw behavior when in AI-only envelope mode [t=254996]


when in AI-only mode, the expectation here would be that the last value of the first AI would fill the glue area in between the automation items:



(ignore the grid of course, i knocked it offgrid between screengrabs)
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:43 PM   #7
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Drawing a comp area in the comp area - again not sure why this is possible, and why it would default to that particular lane, etc.

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Old 02-17-2023, 12:44 PM   #8
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Just a question to understand how it should work:



Starting comp via clicking on little square in razor creates new empty comp if does not exist.

If comp exist then doing razor comp (lets call it that) second time promotes to last comp?

Asking because I thought it creates "new empty comp" but it gets promoted to already existing comp if any.
But its not always the case that it promotes to last comp sometimes it promotes to another if there are multiple ones but not in some "logical order".

So not sure is it a bug or how is it supposed to work?

Edit: Sorry found out. It promotes to last ACTIVATED one. Was testing and was not sure how it selects the comp to work with, I was getting some random selection thats why I asked.

Last edited by Sexan; 02-17-2023 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:48 PM   #9
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Drawing a comp area in the comp area - again not sure why this is possible, and why it would default to that particular lane, etc.
If you don't want to create a comp area, don't shift+control+right-drag there.

There were a few builds where you could only draw a comp area in the comping lane if the mouse action started within an existing comp area, but I found that restriction more confusing than helpful. It's reasonable to want to create a general area that you know you will want to try out comps for, then switch the comp source and tweak the timing later.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:49 PM   #10
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FWIW, I've just installed the universal macOS build, but it says that "REAPER.app" can't be opened because Apple cannot check it for malicious software.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:49 PM   #11
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Using the new Toggle Comping action as a Mouse Modifier (thank you, so fast and great!).

It's not possible to use this "outside" the comp area however, because there's no MM context defined for that area.

Comping is a Mouse-oriented activity, being able to exit/enter from anywhere just using the mouse is ideal.

...especially if we're having to exit comping mode just to slip edit without breaking crossfades.

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Old 02-17-2023, 12:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexan View Post
It promotes to last ACTIVATED one
Correct, that's relatively new behavior. Re-activating comping via any method other than right-clicking on the lane buttons will re-active the most recently used comping lane, if one exists.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
If you don't want to create a comp area, don't shift+control+right-drag there.

There were a few builds where you could only draw a comp area in the comping lane if the mouse action started within an existing comp area, but I found that restriction more confusing than helpful. It's reasonable to want to create a general area that you know you will want to try out comps for, then switch the comp source and tweak the timing later.
Gotcha was just wondering what the logic behind the behaviour was.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:55 PM   #14
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BTW little hard to produce since I dont know what triggers it. But sometimes creating new comp makes first comp go out of sync. Maybe someone will run into it still searching...
Happened when I was testing "razor comp".

Edit it now happened but still not sure what is the cause:
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:55 PM   #15
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Duplicate Razor Area unsynchs the original comp

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Old 02-17-2023, 12:57 PM   #16
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Sorry for the barrage - not trying step on Embass' toes lol, just using this stuff in a natural production-ready way, and reporting the weirdnesses.
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Old 02-17-2023, 12:59 PM   #17
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Thanks for bringing back editing in lanes.

Intended behavior?

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Old 02-17-2023, 01:00 PM   #18
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Got it:

Undo is triggering it

I just bug hunt with empty midi items but its not related to that since it happens on media items also
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Old 02-17-2023, 01:02 PM   #19
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Would it be possible for this to come back as well please?
Now in edit mode it moves the item with the area, while in dev0213 in edit mode I could move only the area without the item.

Quote:
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And here's the dev0213 behavior which was great. I'm using the split and move modifier to move a comp area with item, 1) I can edit inside the area and 2) when the area is in edit mode i can move it around to select new comps without moving with the item..
This was a great way to combine both behaviors with one modifier and I was so used to edit inside comp areas in lanes.

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Old 02-17-2023, 01:08 PM   #20
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This bug returned, when duplicating a comp area with RE it goes out of sync.

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Old 02-17-2023, 01:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Would it be possible for this to come back as well please?
Now in edit mode it moves the item with the area, while in dev0213 in edit mode I could move only the area without the item.
not clear what you mean
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Old 02-17-2023, 01:56 PM   #22
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Really miss the crossfades when slip editing on the comp lane on this dev. Slip editing for me is a part of the comping process to make things fit together. Hope it will be possible without exiting comp mode. Keep up the good work. Thank you Schwa and Justin. Amazing implementation!!

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Old 02-17-2023, 02:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
Sorry ... I use the pre-release versions, but don't always keep up with the discussions in this forum.

What are the little white circles near the top left of selected items? (you can see them in the video above)

The mouse cursor turns into a pencil when I hover over a circle, and clicking on a circle just seems to de-select the item. Is there more to it than that?
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:06 PM   #24
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What are the little white circles near the top left of selected items for (as seen in the video above)?
It is item selection indicator.
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:23 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I think that's as expected, because the crossfade is part of the comp area, not the media items. If you want to edit the comped item without affecting the crossfades between comp areas, you need to either exit comp mode, or edit the item in the source lane.
I can understand it if I try edit item's edges, but here just moving the source. It has no logical conflict in this case.
Just allow crossfades for unsynced areas.
They could work similar to auto-crossfades while razor editing. If there is any adjacent items the comp area crossfade will applied, if no, it will stay without effect but waiting for adjacent item.
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:23 PM   #26
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It is item selection indicator.
What is the interest of this circle when we have specific color for selected item?

Is it possible to remove it?
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:29 PM   #27
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What is the interest of this circle when we have specific color for selected item?

Is it possible to remove it?
I don't know.

Yes, it is an image. Check some previous threads for more details and my mockups.
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
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What is the interest of this circle when we have specific color for selected item?

Is it possible to remove it?
I think the preference for it is in the options media item area but it can also be graphically changed to look like various things I believe.

I like the idea of something more to show what is selected as if we use colours a lot, it can get a bit confusing with what is selected I find.
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
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What is the interest of this circle when we have specific color for selected item?
It's useful when selected item too small to see whether it's selected or not.
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:48 PM   #30
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It is item selection indicator.
Thanks! I wasn't sure if there was more to it than that.

I like it!
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Old 02-17-2023, 02:59 PM   #31
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Quote:
+ Media item lanes: retain/restore comp areas when editing other media items on comping lane

# Media item lanes: improve comp area sync after razor edit
# Media item lanes: revert ability to edit media items within comp areas on comping lane
THank you!

Now this feature is super efficient and super instinctive
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Old 02-17-2023, 04:08 PM   #32
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not clear what you mean
Hope you can see what I mean from this gif, if you notice when I change to edit mode the behavior is different. In dev0213 with the split media and move with comp area modifier I could switch to edit mode and move the comp area without the item which was very handy, but this has changed after.

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Old 02-17-2023, 04:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
# Media item lanes: improve comp area sync after razor edit
Razors edit only work inside active comp areas. Everything else you edit gets synced back to comp area contents.

I'm guessing this is a bug and not part of the feature?

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Old 02-17-2023, 04:58 PM   #34
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I think that's as expected, because the crossfade is part of the comp area, not the media items. If you want to edit the comped item without affecting the crossfades between comp areas, you need to either exit comp mode, or edit the item in the source lane.
Hmmm, the first option doesn't really work though... Except if you never enable comping again. As soon as you do, the crossfade is gone and you get the same result.

Crossfades are really making stuff complicated, aren't they...

Dunno, I'd say that ideally, crossfades should never change when turning comping on/off. Or anything that might be audible for that matter.
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Old 02-17-2023, 06:36 PM   #35
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The way it has always worked with Items/Takes based comping was honestly perfect. The crossfades survived through the take selection process, as they should. This is especially important because it's often a hugely laborious process finding the exact millisecond and shape for the perfect crossfade, that to potentially lose that to the most innocuous little manipulations is not great.

The wheel doesn't need to be reinvented here - looking at how the other DAWs deal with crossfades gives some great examples.
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Old 02-17-2023, 07:59 PM   #36
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Legitimate question -- now that we can switch in/out of comping with a single keypress, what is the benefit of being able to edit media items during comping?

This feels like an extra layer of complexity for nothing more than a limited-feature version of media editing. Just switch out of comping mode and have the full set of editing features, no?

Maybe I just don't understand the benefit, but it seems odd. You're either in the fridge grabbing ingredients, or cooking them. This is like having some kind of reaching stick to grab things from the fridge while cooking, and it takes up space on the counter and is in the way, meanwhile you could just walk over to the fridge with your fully-functional hands.
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Old 02-18-2023, 01:29 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
This is especially important because it's often a hugely laborious process finding the exact millisecond and shape for the perfect crossfade,
Hmmm. In a perfect world there would be an automatic that considers zero crossing etc. to nicely do this for us (in most cases).

-Michael

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Old 02-18-2023, 03:39 AM   #38
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I'm ashamed to ask but..
Could it be possible to add option or something somewhere for razor comp thingy to always create new empty comp? I really love it as a "create new empty comp" shortcut (since it automatically starts comping mode after triggering)

this thingy


If there is already some alternative shortcut that creates empty comp I cannot find it ?

Edit: Oh you can still razor edit while in comp mode via alt + right drag, so maybe its not a good idea... I'm primary razor left drag so it does not appear in comping mode by default, so its seamless transition between razor -> comping

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Old 02-18-2023, 03:50 AM   #39
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When moving an item with comp area in lanes, as I'm holding down the mouse and passing through other areas they are trimmed temporary without removing them until I release the mouse.
Could there be a way to have this behavior instead of trimming them permanently?

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Old 02-18-2023, 05:21 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
Legitimate question -- now that we can switch in/out of comping with a single keypress, what is the benefit of being able to edit media items during comping?

This feels like an extra layer of complexity for nothing more than a limited-feature version of media editing. Just switch out of comping mode and have the full set of editing features, no?
I think that I agree with part of what you are saying. I'd like to have the full set of editing features on the comp lane, I'd like edits to behave exactly the same as they would outside of comping, even if that means that I'm unsyncing my comp areas in the progress.

But I very much disagree with the rest of it.

If I decide to edit items in the comp lane during comping, I'd like to see the impact my edits have on comp areas right away. Going out of the comping mode to do the edits, just to come back and see that everything changed would just be confusing ("Hey, this is not how I just left it a second ago, everything is unsynced").

In general, having to go back and forth between two modes seems extremely un-reaperish to me. I'm used to the tool-less workflow, and I don't think we should deviate from it, except if there's a good reason to do so.

Is there a good reason for source lanes to be locked during comping? Yes, we can use the mouse modifiers to comp quickly and effortlessly.

Is there a good reason for the comp lane to be locked during comping? I don't think so. Or I just haven't found one yet.
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