VU Meter (ZenoMOD)

[Zeno]

Post #1 is up to date now.
You can find all information about the update 1.7.3 there.

More information about creating and using UserThemes can be found here:
VU Meter (ZenoMOD) - UserThemes


Cheers,
Zeno

...

[Coachz]

Great job. Knight is still my fav theme. I put 100 of em on one track and RT Cpu moved by 0.1%. Nice !

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Great job. Knight is still my fav theme. I put 100 of em on one track and RT Cpu moved by 0.1%. Nice !

Great!
BTW the Summed Mode setting: “SUMMED (L || R)” is for you

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Great!
BTW the Summed Mode setting: “SUMMED (L || R)” is for you

[Zeno]

A small update with fixes is on the way.

Changelog:

   v1.7.4
    * Fix tooltip drawing for the record button
    * Fix theme query in the index file

[rhythmtech]

Since installing the new build I can no longer embedd in the mcp. I just get a grey square equivilant to the size of 3 plugin slots.

When I open the UI it is just a blank window.

Have reverted back to previous with no problems.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

Since installing the new build I can no longer embedd in the mcp. I just get a grey square equivilant to the size of 3 plugin slots.

When I open the UI it is just a blank window.

Have reverted back to previous with no problems.

Okay. Thanks.
It sounds like either the index file is missing or the archive downloadable from Stash was not extracted and was mistaken for a jsfx file. Please ensure that you carefully follow the installation instructions. Please note that the package contents and installation process differ from previous versions.

[Zeno]

v1.7.4 is on ReaPack and Stash now.
An error in detecting whether a UserTheme file has been modified or not is now fixed.
Happy Theming!
I am looking forward to see the first User Themes.

If there are any questions about it, feel free to ask.

Cheers,
Zeno

[mschnell]

Maybe a really silly question (never used VU up till now):
I use "loudmax" in the master track to protect the render process from digital clipping.
As well the Reaper track meter as the rendering meter show peak as -0.5 dB.
Now for testing I added the VU meter without changing any parameters. The VU hands are over 0 dB quite a lot and the peak hands stick at +3 dB.

Is this normal ?

Is my mastering abysmal (it does sound good and the customer is happy).

-Michael

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Maybe a really silly question (never used VU up till now):
I use "loudmax" in the master track to protect the render process from digital clipping.
As well the Reaper track meter as the rendering meter show peak as -0.5 dB.
Now for testing I added the VU meter without changing any parameters. The VU hands are over 0 dB quite a lot and the peak hands stick at +3 dB.

Is this normal ?

Is my mastering abysmal (it does sound good and the customer is happy).

-Michael

Hi Michael,

Yes, this is normal. VU meters do not measure peak. Analog VU meters measure the average rectified value (zu deutsch: Gleitrichtwert). Decent VU meter emulations measure RMS+3 with an integration time of ~300ms, additionally modified by the needle balistics, to approximately match the analog behavior. The displayed VU level depends on the selected reference level, by default it’s -18dBFS.

You can think of a VU Meter as a magnifying glass for loudness level. In your case, settings with a reference level of about -6 dBFS (depending on the loudness of your master) would probably be more suitable.

However, the VU Meter has two ways to display the peak level:

1. with the warning LED, which lights up when the peaklevel exceeds a selected threshold (by default -6dBFS) or
2. with the fold-out peak display on the right side of the right meter, which, depending on the selected setting, holds the highest measured sample peak or holds the highest sample peak for a definable period of time and then releases it.

[rhythmtech]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Okay. Thanks.
It sounds like either the index file is missing or the archive downloadable from Stash was not extracted and was mistaken for a jsfx file. Please ensure that you carefully follow the installation instructions. Please note that the package contents and installation process differ from previous versions.

I figured it out. There was an old version still sitting in the 'meters' subfolder of effects.

New version is working great now. Thanks!

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

New version is working great now. Thanks!

Glad to hear

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Yes, this is normal.

I see.

But in fact I don't see what measuring "VU" would do for me.
Thanks !
-Michael

[arjunned]

Originally Posted by Zeno

v1.7.4 is on ReaPack and Stash now.
An error in detecting whether a UserTheme file has been modified or not is now fixed.
Happy Theming!
I am looking forward to see the first User Themes.

If there are any questions about it, feel free to ask.

Cheers,
Zeno

Hey, Zeno.

I seem to be having a bug with the new versions (1.7.3 / 1.7.4). Moving the cursor over the values makes them automatically scroll up to their highest value. I've tried uninstalling the previous versions and reinstalling the latest version; but the issue persists.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by arjunned

Hey, Zeno.

I seem to be having a bug with the new versions (1.7.3 / 1.7.4). Moving the cursor over the values makes them automatically scroll up to their highest value. I've tried uninstalling the previous versions and reinstalling the latest version; but the issue persists.

Damn it!

Thanks for reporting!
Unfortunately, I can't replicate this behavior on my PC. Are there any other macOS users here who are experiencing this behavior? Need to narrow down the reason for this behavior.

[akademie]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Damn it!

Thanks for reporting!
Unfortunately, I can't replicate this behavior on my PC. Are there any other macOS users here who are experiencing this behavior? Need to narrow down the reason for this behavior.

I cannot confirm this behavior here - Mac Mini 2014 and macOS Monterey.
No automatic scrolling of any value fields when cursor over them or clicking them. Everything steady, one click = one change, dragging works only for Volume field.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by akademie

Yes, I can confirm this error here (update: see EDIT at the bottom) - Mac Mini 2014 and macOS Monterey.
I downloaded your new VU meters yesterday and while trying it I got the same error when selecting User Themes. I even added 3rd one to the code where needed and it still showed only user 01 and 02, but maybe it requires even more editing of the code to add new user themes slots.
But definitely even in default state it cycles through your "Factory Themes" OK, while selecting any User Theme ends with the screen of error/info message as presented by arjunned above.

No
Please do not edit the code! You will not be able to create more slots this way.
This LOL error message is a joke. It tells you that you have not created or downloaded a UserTheme. That is why no UserTheme is displayed. Everything is exactly as it should be. Nevertheless I will change the error text slightly to avoid such confusion in the future. Sorry for that.

In the UserTheme thread I explained in detail how you can create/share your UserThemes or download UserThemes created by others.

[akademie]

Originally Posted by Zeno

No
Please do not edit the code! You will not be able to create more slots this way.
This LOL error message is a joke. It tells you that you have not created or downloaded a UserTheme. That is why no UserTheme is displayed. Everything is exactly as it should be. Nevertheless I will change the error text slightly to avoid such confusion in the future. Sorry for that.

In the UserTheme thread I explained in detail how you can create/share your UserThemes or download UserThemes created by others.

I already got it when I came back to my Mac few minutes ago and tried to modify one of included User Themes (01 and 02) and everything is OK, I understand now.
And thank you also for describing it

I also changed the whole previous nonsense post and mentioned that it works correctly here in the sense of the problem reported by arjunned.

[arjunned]

Originally Posted by akademie

I cannot confirm this behavior here - Mac Mini 2014 and macOS Monterey.
No automatic scrolling of any value fields when cursor over them or clicking them. Everything steady, one click = one change, dragging works only for Volume field.

I've also tried v1.7.4 on a fresh portable install of Reaper and still have the same auto-scroll to max value on mouse-over behaviour. I'm on an M1 Max MacBook Pro with macOS Ventura.

[s~a]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Damn it!

Thanks for reporting!
Unfortunately, I can't replicate this behavior on my PC. Are there any other macOS users here who are experiencing this behavior? Need to narrow down the reason for this behavior.

I have the same issue here on my Macbook M1 Pro running Monterey

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by akademie

I cannot confirm this behavior here - Mac Mini 2014 and macOS Monterey.
No automatic scrolling of any value fields when cursor over them or clicking them. Everything steady, one click = one change, dragging works only for Volume field.

Thanks. That's great! What kind of input device do you use? What about mouse wheel?

Originally Posted by arjunned

I've also tried v1.7.4 on a fresh portable install of Reaper and still have the same auto-scroll to max value on mouse-over behaviour. I'm on an M1 Max MacBook Pro with macOS Ventura.

Originally Posted by s~a

I have the same issue here on my Macbook M1 Pro running Monterey

Thank you, guys! That at least gives me a rough indication.
These problems only occur since v1.7.3 and v1.7.4 respectively, is that correct?
The previous versions were usable for you in this regard?

My current guess, and it's pure speculation so far, is that your input device is sending a signal that my code interprets as mouse wheel scrolling up.

[EDIT]
Please try this pre-release: zenomod_VU Meter (ZenoMOD).zip
Please overwrite the jsfx-file of v1.7.4 (or move v1.7.4 temporarily to another location outside the Reaper folder).
Do the parameters still scroll to max when you set the slider to 1?
If this fixes the bug, please give feedback and I'll implement an appropriate setting in the next release.
[/EDIT]

If the above pre-release doesn't work for you:

What kind of input device are you using?

Unfortunately, I won't have a chance to test my code on a Mac with your configuration.
But at least it gives me a starting point to research and narrow down the error to possible causes if the following test doesn't yield to results:




Could you please record another gif in which you open the code from the VU Meter with Reapers code editor and enter "mouse" in the input field at the bottom right?
Please make sure that the columns "Name" and "Value" are clearly visible. Then please move the mouse over the parameters again and wait until the particular parameter is maxed out.
Please do not drag, mwheel or click (except to get into the preference menu or to change the page).


Hopefully that provides some clues, because otherwise I'm lost.

Zeno


...

[akademie]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Thanks. That's great! What kind of input device do you use? What about mouse wheel?
<snip>
...

It is cheap standard optical 3-button PC mouse (Genius or whatever) connected via USB.

Mouse-wheel works on all input fields (except "Rec"), dragging while holding left mouse button only works in Volume field.
BTW, it was only for informational purpose in my previous post, I did not complain about dragging working only on Volume, I am fine with the current behavior

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by akademie

It is cheap standard optical 3-button PC mouse (Genius or whatever) connected via USB.

Mouse-wheel works on all input fields (except "Rec"), dragging while holding left mouse button only works in Volume field.
BTW, it was only for informational purpose in my previous post, I did not complain about dragging working only on Volume, I am fine with the current behavior

Thank you for your reply. I was looking to identify any similarities or differences that could help me better understand the issue that arjunned and s~a are experiencing. Based on your reply, everything appears to be exactly as it should be on your side.

[arjunned]

Originally Posted by Zeno

[EDIT]
Please try this pre-release: Attachment 52854
Please overwrite the jsfx-file of v1.7.4 (or move v1.7.4 temporarily to another location outside the Reaper folder).
Do the parameters still scroll to max when you set the slider to 1?
If this fixes the bug, please give feedback and I'll implement an appropriate setting in the next release.
[/EDIT]

Hey, Zeno.
This is great! Just tested the pre-release, and it seems to work well. I set the trackpad slider to 1 and no more auto-scrolling of the values to max. This disables mouse-scrolling to increase/decrease values, of course, but I can live with click-dragging for now.

[s~a]

Originally Posted by Zeno

[EDIT]
Please try this pre-release: Attachment 52854
Please overwrite the jsfx-file of v1.7.4 (or move v1.7.4 temporarily to another location outside the Reaper folder).
Do the parameters still scroll to max when you set the slider to 1?
If this fixes the bug, please give feedback and I'll implement an appropriate setting in the next release.
[/EDIT]


...

The prerelease with the slider set to 1 fixes it here!

Here's the gif you asked for with version 1.7.4

[Zeno]

Okay, I'll implement a slider for that in the preference menu for next release.
I think I may have found the reason for this behavior, but I need to get my hands on a macbook to fix it properly. I am not confident enough to publish untested code. So it may take a while before the bug is reasonably fixed, if ever. Macbooks don't just lie around on the street waiting for a new owner.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by s~a

Here's the gif you asked for with version 1.7.4

Thanks!
Just to make sure you know:
You can get rid of the error message and the graphics render error on User01 and User02 when you install VU Meter (ZenoMOD) - UserThemes on ReaPack.

[rhythmtech]

Im wondering is there a way to remove the 'Plugin UI is open' message from the slot when UI is open?

As you can see I use narrow channels and it just looks like a jumble of letters.

[Zeno]

Update v1.7.5 is available!

Changelog:

   v1.7.5
    * Fix scrolling to max parameters on MacOS Trackpad / Touchpad when mouse over parameter
    * Fix rec circle not displayed or displayed incorrectly on some OS
    * Rephrase LOL error message a bit to avoid confusion
    * Add "VU Meter (ZenoMOD) - UserThemes" Forum-Link to LOL error message
    * Add some love to preference mask
    * Update ReaPack metadata
    * Update Stash Link
    * Update Stash README

Cheers,
Zeno


...

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by rhythmtech

Im wondering is there a way to remove the 'Plugin UI is open' message from the slot when UI is open?

Unfortunately no, I have no control over that.
It's hardcoded into Reaper and has nothing to do with my JSFX.

[rhythmtech]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Unfortunately no, I have no control over that.
It's hardcoded into Reaper and has nothing to do with my JSFX.

No worries.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Yes, this is normal. VU meters do not measure peak. Analog VU meters measure the average rectified value (zu deutsch: Gleitrichtwert). Decent VU meter emulations measure RMS+3 with an integration time of ~300ms, additionally modified by the needle balistics, to approximately match the analog behavior. The displayed VU level depends on the selected reference level, by default it’s -18dBFS.

Hmm.

I recon UV should measure RMS hence signal square average.

A 0 dB sin has a peak of -1 and +1. Hence a peak indicator should show 1 = 0dB.

The average of sin square is 1/2, which is -6 dB (or is it -3 dB as it's squared, anyway ? )

Hence i supposed the VU "naturally" should show a lower level than the linear signal meter in Reaper (or do the show RMS ? )

What is the "reference level" supposed to tell me ?

-Michael

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Hmm.

I recon UV should measure RMS hence signal square average.

A 0 dB sin has a peak of -1 and +1. Hence a peak indicator should show 1 = 0dB.

The average of sin square is 1/2, which is -6 dB (or is it -3 dB as it's squared, anyway ? )

Hence i supposed the VU "naturally" should show a lower level than the linear signal meter in Reaper (or do the show RMS ? )

What is the "reference level" supposed to tell me ?

-Michael

As I said before, analog VU meters measure ARV. VU Meter emulations are based on RMS+3, modified by the emulation of physical needle ballistics. In fact, RMS shows 0.707 of the peak value of a sine wave. However, in this case it's not RMS, but RMS+3 (as defined by the AES) and adds an +3dB offset to compensate for the difference between peak and RMS. So what is the reference? The reference defines 0VU with respect to the peak level of a pure sine with 1000 cycles per s. So a 1kHz sine tone at a 0dBFS peak level will be displayed at 0VU if the reference level is set to 0dBFS. If the reference is set to 0dBFS and the sine tone level is -3dBFS, the VU meter would show -3VU, since the pseudo unit VU corresponds to dB.

When I measure a -18dBFS 1kHz sine tone generated in Reaper at my audio interfaces line outputs, I get exactly 1.228V dBu or in other words: analog 0VU. Note that the AD/DA level scaling may differ from interface to interface....

To what level you should calibrate depends on your application. I guess -18dBFS has become the general standard, because signals with a medium crest factor - levelled to 0VU maximum, get a headroom of about 6-12dB. Some people argue that there is no headroom in bit float applications. And that is (quasi) correct. However, this is only true as long as the level remains in the digital bit float application. So the peak LED is set to -6dBFS by default, because it is supposed to give an early warning of a possible clipping. These are just preferences that have prevailed over time. Change them if they don't suit your way of working.

But if I got you right what you actually want to know is what VU meters can be used for. Well, I use them, for example, to estimate the momentary average dynamics more easily during pre-fx level automation. Or to keep my nominal level and headroom in the studio when I send tracks to the outboard. To keep track of the average level and DR within an effects chain, etc.

In this example, the reference level is not -18dBFS,
but chosen so that the pre-FX level corresponds to 0VU,
since I already have set all my levels pre-FX:



Another example:
I want to analyze my DR when mastering a track and set the reference level to 0dBFS. I can now see: My peak is at 0.1dBFS and the RMS+3 hits a maximum of -5:



Now I want to examine the momentary average level more closely and set my reference level to -5dBFS.
And I get a magnifying glass, so to speak:




When the signal arrives at my digital fader, the LUFS-M or LUFS-S meters take over, which serve a very similar purpose. The peak level is important for me especially when recording tracks, when I insert outboard in the track FX chain or on the stereo out. But just to make sure I don't clip. The LED serves this purpose perfectly. Analyzing average level tells me much more about the material than peak.

Anyway, VU meters have existed since the late 1930's. Different people use them for all kind of different things. There is an incredible amount of info material, opinions & usetips about VU meters. For better or for worse. The internet in its full glory is open to you. Use it. And if you conclude that VU meters are "virtually useless" to you, that's ok. This opinion is also legitimate.

[mschnell]

Many thanks for the extensive explanation !

For me "best practice" is just avoiding digital clipping, which only can happen when converting to a fixed point file format or when doing D/A (or A/D) conversion.
Hence I just need peak monitoring.

Thanks again,
-Michael

[hexSPA]

I like VU meters. At first, I think I was more of the Virtually Useless persuasion but once I learned how to use them, I use them as much as peak meters; maybe more.

Ordinary transient sounds should peak -3 to -5VU and very sharp sounds might need to be basically at -20VU. This is with calibration to -23. I always put sustained sounds at 0VU. These settings are for ITB processing since as of now I'm not using any outboard besides an ADAT I/O expander for extra preamps and monitoring.

If you compare the action of a VU vs a modern LUFS meter, the VU closely mimics the LUFS-M, or momentary, loudness metric. It won't tell you peak as reliably but you have the regular digital meters for that. To me, true peak is only useful during mastering - especially because I always leave sufficient headroom up until then. Actually, when I render projects, it's not uncommon for reaper to apply 18dB of gain to normalize to -24 integrated lufs and -6dBTP (these are often mostly mildly-compressed rehearsal and songwriting sessions hence the high Peak-to-Loudness-Ratio).

VU meters are awesome and way more useful to me than peak meters for setting levels at the various points in the signal chain. It's a rough guide but the lack of clinical precision helps me just move on to more important things since I tend to be overanalytical anyway.

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by mschnell

For me "best practice" is just avoiding digital clipping, which only can happen when converting to a fixed point file format or when doing D/A (or A/D) conversion.
Hence I just need peak monitoring.

Yes, an absolutely legitimate approach!
However, if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need a meter for momentary loudness with high resolution scaling around the reference level, a VU meter might be a useful option.

[EDIT] Edited my previous post. Yesterday it was already quite late [/EDIT]

Cheers,
Zeno

...

[wesborland]

I get an error when I try to change skin... macbook m2pro

[s~a]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Update v1.7.5 is available!

Changelog:

   v1.7.5
    * Fix scrolling to max parameters on MacOS Trackpad / Touchpad when mouse over parameter
    * Fix rec circle not displayed or displayed incorrectly on some OS
    * Rephrase LOL error message a bit to avoid confusion
    * Add "VU Meter (ZenoMOD) - UserThemes" Forum-Link to LOL error message
    * Add some love to preference mask
    * Update ReaPack metadata
    * Update Stash Link
    * Update Stash README

Cheers,
Zeno


...

Thanks for the touchpad fix!

Btw, what’s the difference between the summing settings L+R and Logical?

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by wesborland

I get an error when I try to change skin... macbook m2pro

Since v1.7.3 an addon is required to support the new UserTheme feature.
Download VU Meter (ZenoMOD) - UserThemes from ReaPack.
Or if you downloaded from Stash, follow the FIRST USE instructions in the README.

Originally Posted by s~a

Thanks for the touchpad fix!
Btw, what’s the difference between the summing settings L+R and Logical?

L+R is the sum of the left and right channels and is also called mid or mono. Since summing cancels out the difference (side), it does not reflect the stereo signal.

L||R is a logical OR gate. The code compares the levels of the left and right channels for each sample and outputs the channel whose level is higher. So it does reflect the stereo signal.

Cheers,
Zeno

...

[wesborland]

Originally Posted by Zeno

Since v1.7.3 an addon is required to support the new UserTheme feature.
Download VU Meter (ZenoMOD) - UserThemes from ReaPack.
Or if you downloaded from Stash, follow the FIRST USE instructions in the README.

ohh my fault... thank u man