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Old 07-17-2023, 12:15 PM   #1
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Default v6.81+dev0717 - July 17 2023

v6.81+dev0717 - July 17 2023
* Includes feature branch: Development_Theme theme
* Includes feature branch: JSFX plug-in defined compile-time configuration parameters
* Includes feature branch: LV2 non-automatable patch parameter support including atom:Path
* Includes feature branch: video YUV gamut selection
* Includes feature branch: visual track spacers
* Includes feature branch: 128 channels per track
* Includes feature branch: updated Windows manifest for newer OS features
* Includes feature branch: always running non-bypassed FX when the UI is visible
* Includes feature branch: crossfade new recording with existing media items if configured
* Includes feature branch: video from background projects
* Includes feature branch: FX containers
* Includes feature branch: improvements to aligning takes after recording
* Includes feature branch: arrange view override mouse modifier sections
* Includes feature branch: toolbar armed/special animations
* Includes feature branch: pooled and unpooled ARA edits
* Includes feature branch: shortcut import/export improvements and multiple main keyboard sections
* Includes feature branch: GR metering as embedded UI for third-party VSTs
* Includes feature branch: media item fixed lanes
+ Batch converter: support preserving metadata when converting from media item [t=260528]
+ Media item lanes: remove support for unsynced comp areas [p=2693324]
+ Take: fix various behaviors when reversing take via action [t=280742]
+ WALTER: if mcp.extmixer.mode is set to [-1], use mcp.extmixer.position as margin offsets
+ macOS: fix various retina-related display glitches (e.g. zoomed-in item labels)
# Development theme: master mcp hidpi
# Theme: mcp_recarm_norec fallback to track_recarm_norec before mcp_recarm_on, etc
# macOS: improve Metal display scheduling

Full Changelog - Pre-Releases - Feature Requests - Generated by WhatsNew2
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Old 07-17-2023, 01:01 PM   #2
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I haven't messed with Fixed Lanes in a long time, but don't rem it doing this,.. lets say I have two comp lanes, I use the option "Set items in all lanes to one random color per lane" , when I switch back to the other comp lane all the comps for that lane are gone.

Win10_x64, I see same thing in 0716 & 0717
https://stash.reaper.fm/47052/Comp%2...20coloring.gif
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Old 07-17-2023, 01:50 PM   #3
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+ Media item lanes: remove support for unsynced comp areas

And how we can copy and recomp unsynced parts now? There is an action for it (or we can draw a razor area and press yellow button), but all we get - less user friendly interface.
All the logic and mental entities stay the same, but visual feedback became more poor.
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Old 07-17-2023, 02:05 PM   #4
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There was a clue earlier: here are some edits, you need to resync. This way user was getting the direction for a convenient work in future (because most probably he will need to compare these edits with other takes).
For now this simlpe thing can be achieved only via mouse modifer click on neighbour area. Really strange.
I see how new users ask the same question in mass.

And also you can't just skip the edits and choose another take.
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Old 07-17-2023, 02:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by AZpercussion View Post
And how we can copy and recomp unsynced parts now? There is an action for it (or we can draw a razor area and press yellow button), but all we get - less user friendly interface.
Yes, there is an action (also in the lane button context menu) to "copy media items that are outside of comp areas to new lane and re-comp", or you can razor select in the comp lane and use the yellow square button.

I think the connection between the "mental entities" and the interface is actually clearer this way. Previously, the circle button on unsynced comp areas would run exactly the same "copy media items... and re-comp" action for the whole lane.

In other words, there are comp areas that define where the comp lane is a copy of one of the source lanes. Any media that is outside of the comp areas is just a regular media item, and can all be considered un-synced.
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Old 07-17-2023, 02:19 PM   #6
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In other words, there are comp areas that define where the comp lane is a copy of one of the source lanes. Any media that is outside of the comp areas is just a regular media item, and can all be considered un-synced.
Sounds clear, but we should have fast and visible way for resync, I think.

And also I want to have ability to skip edits and choose another take.
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Old 07-17-2023, 03:01 PM   #7
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Batch converter: support preserving metadata when converting from media item [t=260528]

Nice !



I think it would make sense to have Preserve Metadata in Render sertings for Selected Items and Selected items via master as well. (at least for fields not filled in the metadata window by the user)
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Old 07-17-2023, 03:12 PM   #8
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This comp system is clearer, takes a little un-learning!

Redundant unsync button?

1. 'Un-sync' a comp item in the comping lane , eg add the comp item volume envelope so the comp area is removed.

2. Right click the item in the comp lane, select 'Add comp area between previous and next...'

The old 'unsynced' circle appears until the mouse is clicked or scrolled, but nothing else has happened. Would it make sense for clicking on that circle to do the 'new lane re-comp' action? (or for it not be an in-comp option)
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Old 07-17-2023, 03:21 PM   #9
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Redundant unsync button?
The next build will gray out the actions that create comp areas when right-clicking in the comp lane, to prevent creating immediately-unsynced comp areas.

[edit] no, on second thought, these actions (including double-click) will work, but they will try to choose a source lane intelligently if the click is in the comping lane.

Last edited by schwa; 07-17-2023 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 07-17-2023, 03:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bolgwrad View Post
2. Right click the item in the comp lane, select 'Add comp area between previous and next...'
Will this now create a synced comp area in the first source lane?

Double click also doesn't work btw.



I think this feature is more important now that there are no unsynced comp areas. Really helps if you don't have to precisely redraw the area.

It's a bit hard to discover though (only clue is the mouse cursor change). Maybe a slight tint of yellow for the part between comp areas would help users find it?
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Old 07-17-2023, 04:07 PM   #11
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Double click also doesn't work btw.
Here, I've set the "d/c on comp area" mouse modifier to "Item lanes: Comp into a new copy of lane under mouse for track under mouse", which is useful, though it duplicates the whole lane; could be the way to go if it just duplicated the item.
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Old 07-18-2023, 12:52 AM   #12
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Schwa, just for interest, you brought to life the most controversial suggestion of FeedTheCat, is it just because of love to experiments or there are another reasons?
I hope that other suggestions, which are more obvious, will be concidered too.
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Old 07-18-2023, 01:13 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v6.81+dev0717 - July 17 2023
# macOS: improve Metal display scheduling
Apologies if this isn't related - there's still no change to the playback cursor performance on this end. Throttling move events is currently the only thing that stops the playhead and transport bar freezing up when dragging things in the arrange window / MIDI editor.
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Old 07-18-2023, 01:54 AM   #14
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Default subfolder images

from pre v6.81+dev0715 - July 15 2023
# Themes: fix subtheme image alternate name fallback behavior

probably not related, but if you use a custom image in default theme folder like
custom tcp.custom.test "" 0 "" "test"

it will correctly pick the test.png in every layout like : layout "anylayout"
it won't pick the test.png in every layout like : layout "anylayout" "subfolder"
You'll have to copy the test.png in the subfolder to work.

It should use the png in theme root folder if the subfolder is empty, and only pick the picture with the same name if present in subfolder.
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Old 07-18-2023, 03:09 AM   #15
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+ WALTER: if mcp.extmixer.mode is set to [-1], use mcp.extmixer.position as margin offsets
Does this let you use margin offsets while the Extmixer is otherwise not controlled by WALTER?
IOW, is the same as setting the mode to [0], but still gives you control over the margin setting?

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Old 07-18-2023, 03:12 AM   #16
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I like much more the system without unsynced areas, makes it much simpler to edit the items in the comp lane.
Since we don't have that indication now, can we have an action in the comp area menu to set a razor edit and show the initial source in case we want to comp it?
If the comp lane is collapsed, it could switch to the lane with the initial source and select it with RE.
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Old 07-18-2023, 03:19 AM   #17
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There's a bug though which brings confusion, item edges are not following comp area edges and the opposite.
I guess when the item is equal or less than the size of the comp area it shouldn't remove it.

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Old 07-18-2023, 03:43 AM   #18
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Does this let you use margin offsets while the Extmixer is otherwise not controlled by WALTER?
IOW, is the same as setting the mode to [0], but still gives you control over the margin setting?
Yes exactly.
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Old 07-18-2023, 03:53 AM   #19
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New Development Theme issues:
Still seeing the image artifacts in the MCP.
These appear to be pink or yellow line corruptions or errors.




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Attached Images
File Type: png New-default-theme-MCP-issues.PNG (13.2 KB, 665 views)
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Old 07-18-2023, 04:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
There's a bug though which brings confusion, item edges are not following comp area edges and the opposite.
I guess when the item is equal or less than the size of the comp area it shouldn't remove it.
Something has to happen in that case, because the item in the comp lane no longer matches the item in the source lane -- within the comp area, one lane has empty space where the other lane has media. Either the comp area has to go away, or the edge of the comp area needs to shrink.
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Old 07-18-2023, 04:31 AM   #21
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Something has to happen in that case, because the item in the comp lane no longer matches the item in the source lane -- within the comp area, one lane has empty space where the other lane has media. Either the comp area has to go away, or the edge of the comp area needs to shrink.
Maybe should not allow the item in the comp lane to extend the size of its source from the edge when it's inside a comp area?
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Old 07-18-2023, 06:53 AM   #22
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Regarding moving edges between areas and changing crossfades.
For now there is difference between item edge moving and area edge moving.
And because of this difference user forced to move area border via area handle, but edit crossfade lenght via item edges.

It's inconvenient, and excess complexity.
And this produce some corner cases as you can see in the gif.

There is not any sense to expand item edge if I don't know what placed in hidden part of lane. First I need to look at the hidden part and then expand the item if i still need.



I think it can be resolved if we couldn't move media item edge itself if it corresponds to comp area edge. Instead of this we would move comp area edges.
That way comp area edges and crossfades will be edited like we used to work with media items.
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Old 07-18-2023, 07:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by harmonicaman View Post
from pre v6.81+dev0715 - July 15 2023
# Themes: fix subtheme image alternate name fallback behavior

probably not related, but if you use a custom image in default theme folder like
custom tcp.custom.test "" 0 "" "test"

it will correctly pick the test.png in every layout like : layout "anylayout"
it won't pick the test.png in every layout like : layout "anylayout" "subfolder"
You'll have to copy the test.png in the subfolder to work.

It should use the png in theme root folder if the subfolder is empty, and only pick the picture with the same name if present in subfolder.

thanks, fixing!
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Old 07-18-2023, 07:29 AM   #24
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These appear to be pink or yellow line corruptions or errors.
Yes thanks, sorry.
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Old 07-18-2023, 09:40 AM   #25
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Still trying to make sense of the utility of auto-deleting the comp area after unsync. I'm just gonna commit and re-create it anyways. As a result of today's change :



This now creates new Comp Areas at every single item edge when doing a recomp - when imo the original Comp Area should have simply persisted.

So now --- in a COMP lane --- we can have Comp Areas, Non Comp Areas, Unsynced Areas, one set of crossfades for Comp Areas, another set for Items, a different behaviour for Comp Area Edges touching Item Edges...and if you do a vocal chop type thing and want to commit it -- a dozen splits in the Comp Area at every item edge, when resyncing.
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Old 07-18-2023, 10:12 AM   #26
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It's a Comp Lane -- can't the entire thing be a Comp Area and remove the possibility of Non-Comp-Areas altogether? Why would we ever want Non-Comp-Areas in a Comp Lane?

It's to me very disjointed that Comp Areas define "what you hear", but also Non Comp Areas are also audible. I don't get it - why have two behaviours? If something "unsyncs" yeah I get there's no matching source lane but I don't understand the pedantry of requiring one. There's matching items! Leave the Comp Area intact, highlight the matching items -- indicate it's unsynced and let us commit/recomp when we're done tinkering. I don't quite understand the issue.

If the entire Comp Lane WAS and only could ever be a Comp Area -- an empty one to start -- there would be no reason to have multiple constructs in the comp lane. Yes "what is the source lane for this empty track-wide comp area"? Itself -- or a hidden dummy lane -- I have no clue but I think what I'm saying makes a ton of sense.

The construct of Comp Areas in my mind should be the only thing that exists in a Comp Lane... and items are inside of them, synced to source lanes or modified/unsynced -- But always within Comp Areas!
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Old 07-18-2023, 10:23 AM   #27
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This now creates new Comp Areas at every single item edge when doing a recomp - when imo the original Comp Area should have simply persisted.
Not a fan of multiple splits as well. I'd prefer one comp area for all the edited items.

Maybe it's something with my settings, but for me the items also get spread to two new edit lanes (in alternating fashion).

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Old 07-18-2023, 10:54 AM   #28
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Not a fan of multiple splits as well. I'd prefer one comp area for all the edited items.
Why not use RE for this? It sets one comp area for all items
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Old 07-18-2023, 11:14 AM   #29
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It's a Comp Lane -- can't the entire thing be a Comp Area and remove the possibility of Non-Comp-Areas altogether? Why would we ever want Non-Comp-Areas in a Comp Lane?

It's to me very disjointed that Comp Areas define "what you hear", but also Non Comp Areas are also audible. I don't get it - why have two behaviours?
Because the one is synced and you can switch comps and the non comp area is unsynced from the source and available to edit with out editing the source. Or else how would you know what is synced or unsynced?
If the comp areas could move together with the items, like to treat comp areas exactly as items, then it would make sense to have a switch to unsync/resync and the areas could follow the item edits so there could be always areas(even the unsynced areas). Can't think of another way to always have comp areas. The previous system i didn't like that unsynced areas where just staying somewhere to indicate the source or to resync but with cluttering the comp lane. In the end there was a bunch of empty unsynced areas, and they were dangerous in a way that if you moved another item inside them and accidentally hit the arrows, your new edits were gone for good if you didn't recomp previously.
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Old 07-18-2023, 11:33 AM   #30
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In the end there was a bunch of empty unsynced areas, and they were dangerous in a way that if you moved another item inside them and accidentally hit the arrows, your new edits were gone for good if you didn't recomp previously.
If that's the only problem it's possible to make an option that forces area to resync on switching takes.
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Old 07-18-2023, 11:46 AM   #31
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If that's the only problem it's possible to make an option that forces area to resync on switching takes.
Unfortunately this was not the only problem, the main problem was 2 "similar" things with different behaviors that were combined together (synced/unsynced) which unfortunately imo made editing and comping confusing in the end.

If there's something new I would like to try for testing this would be:
Have all areas in the comp lane synced or unsynced and not a combination of both. (I think this is the most confusing thing for most people)
And another, items and comp areas in the comp lane is like one thing, area edits would follow item edits and have a switch to sync/unsync them with the source.

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Old 07-18-2023, 12:28 PM   #32
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@Devs, with the new Theme Adjuster, I just noticed that we have this little gem here:




Would it be possible to implement the same for the TCP?
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Old 07-18-2023, 12:55 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Unfortunately this was not the only problem, the main problem was 2 "similar" things with different behaviors that were combined together (synced/unsynced) which unfortunately imo made editing and comping confusing in the end.

If there's something new I would like to try for testing this would be:
Have all areas in the comp lane synced or unsynced and not a combination of both. (I think this is the most confusing thing for most people)
And another, items and comp areas in the comp lane is like one thing, area edits would follow item edits and have a switch to sync/unsync them with the source.
Yes, this is why I'm suggesting Comp Lane ONLY has Comp Areas -- the areas "outside" are also Comp Areas, just EMPTY ones. That way there's no weird interactions/complexity between unsynced/synced areas, item edges against comp areas, etc.... just Comp Areas in the Comp Lane and Comp Area Crossfades.

And yes, "what is the source lane for empty comp areas"? No clue - some hidden empty lane? I'd love to hear how this is a bad idea, or how it's better to have non-comp-areas and comp-areas mixed in the comp lane.
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Old 07-18-2023, 01:47 PM   #34
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Unfortunately this was not the only problem, the main problem was 2 "similar" things with different behaviors that were combined together (synced/unsynced) which unfortunately imo made editing and comping confusing in the end.
What behavior was different and how it confuses?
As I know you only couldn't extend unsynced area.
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Old 07-18-2023, 01:57 PM   #35
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Yes, this is why I'm suggesting Comp Lane ONLY has Comp Areas -- the areas "outside" are also Comp Areas, just EMPTY ones. That way there's no weird interactions/complexity between unsynced/synced areas, item edges against comp areas, etc.... just Comp Areas in the Comp Lane and Comp Area Crossfades.
Practically now in the comp lane, we stay in sync by editing a comp area (move/split etc), and unsync by editing the item. This is where the feature divides to synced vs unsynced/non comp areas.
I think if there were only comp areas for both editing and comping in the comp lane, they should have all the editing features of media items and behave like them.
Because when unsyncing, anything less would feel less powerful than the current system where we can edit the items.
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Old 07-18-2023, 02:18 PM   #36
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What behavior was different and how it confuses?
As I know you only couldn't extend unsynced area.
I think I 've mentioned some before, but some more that comes in mind: The one comp area was for comping the other for editing/recomping.
Crossfades? Sometimes both areas were synced, others only the one was synced but the other unsynced.
It was possible to move unsynced areas somewhere else, and then what was the point if it worked as a source indication? You could recomp, or maybe not, and when the main comp was finalized there could be a bunch of empty/edited unsynced areas for no reason.
Also it was harder to edit and move items in the comp lane since it took vertical space from the lane, especially at a small lane height.
Just my personal opinion/experience, I would prefer something simpler with one type of comp areas to prevent the above ,or to recomp that often with crossfades or other edits.

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Old 07-18-2023, 03:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v6.81+dev0717 - July 17 2023
# macOS: improve Metal display scheduling
Any chance we'll get some display improvements on the windows side? Is Metal basically the same thing as OPEN GL?

As far as I know Reaper's GUI is still rendered on the CPU not GPU to help with audio always being the prioty process.
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Old 07-18-2023, 03:50 PM   #38
AZpercussion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
You could recomp, or maybe not, and when the main comp was finalized there could be a bunch of empty/edited unsynced areas for no reason.
What means no reason?
I see the reason that I need to edit something. After edits this material will differ from original recording.
Unsync is not a goal, it's a consequence. It will be anyway, no matter have we indication or not.

And the source indication, your speak about, doesn't has much sense itself. Think about it as a bonus. Anyway you also have takes names and color.
Comping area need firstly for searching takes through the lanes in particular time segment.

Did you try to use lanes in collapsed mode?
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Old 07-18-2023, 11:04 PM   #39
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mmm not any post-fader-fx yet, not even in the feature branches, to try out?
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Old 07-18-2023, 11:51 PM   #40
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Very obviously not in v6.81+dev0717 (which is the only thing discussed here)
But there was a very inserting alternative suggestion on that behalf lately in another forum.
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