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Old 03-28-2023, 01:52 PM   #1
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Default Missing mouse modifier actions in pre-releases

I commented in a thread here but I think it went unnoticed.

its been a while since I've used a pre-release. my custom actions and cycle actions that use mouse modifiers have broken.

Command ID 25099 and 25096, 39270, and 39280 are missing to name a few


Can someone please explain.
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Old 03-28-2023, 01:57 PM   #2
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v6.74+dev0203 - February 3 2023
+ Actions: remove actions like "set default mouse modifier for _context_ to _action_"

This was always a bad design (one action for every possible mouse modifier), many of the actions didn't work, and it was not futureproof. That change will not be in a release version until v7.


[edited to add, much later]

In REAPER 7 these actions no longer appear in the actions list, but backwards compatibility is maintained, so existing custom actions and scripts that use these actions should still work. If you want to create a new custom action or script that uses this functionality, you can use the new ReaScript function that work like this:

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MIDI piano roll left drag", 0, "Paint notes")

Last edited by schwa; 10-22-2023 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 03-28-2023, 01:59 PM   #3
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Note that you can accomplish the same thing with the ReaScript function SetMouseModifier().
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Old 03-28-2023, 03:05 PM   #4
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Thanks! I'll give it a try with scripting.
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Old 03-28-2023, 03:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
v6.74+dev0203 - February 3 2023
+ Actions: remove actions like "set default mouse modifier for _context_ to _action_"

This was always kind of a bad design anyway (one action for every possible mouse modifier), many of the actions didn't work, and it was not futureproof. That change will not be in a release version until v7.
Saw what you said there
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Old 03-29-2023, 07:58 PM   #6
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My v7 prediction is a native custom action creator for mouse mod toggles. So your list only ends up with the ones you've created and decide to keep around.
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Old 03-30-2023, 12:53 AM   #7
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My v7 prediction is a native custom action creator for mouse mod toggles. So your list only ends up with the ones you've created and decide to keep around.
If it will be same as release of v6, this rather won't happen. What is in dev builds now will just move to release, perhaps some polishing things and a new theme.
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Old 03-30-2023, 02:46 AM   #8
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If it will be same as release of v6, this rather won't happen. What is in dev builds now will just move to release, perhaps some polishing things and a new theme.
There are so many big and long requested new features in development currently like fixed lanes as a new comping system, the FX container, custom WALTER buttons, the background project routing thing and the list goes on.. I guess it will take some time to work on all of these and probably as soon as these features are refined enough they will release them all as Reaper 7.
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Old 03-30-2023, 02:57 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
There are so many big and long requested new features in development currently like fixed lanes as a new comping system, the FX container, custom WALTER buttons, the background project routing thing and the list goes on.. I guess it will take some time to work on all of these and probably as soon as these features are refined enough they will release them all as Reaper 7.
Based on facts I can say some will be released sooner, some will be released with 7.0 and others may remain in dev builds. It may happen that some branches never appear in releases as it happened with some features. I am not guessing, I use facts.
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Old 03-30-2023, 11:25 AM   #10
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If it will be same as release of v6, this rather won't happen. What is in dev builds now will just move to release, perhaps some polishing things and a new theme.
Ah, I hadn't actually tested this out yet!

So there are MM sets, cool. But how does one define them? I tried setting B with an action but the toggle didn't seem to change the MM I changed. I looked around at the prereleases around Feb 3 and couldn't find a clear explanation...

Last edited by MonkeyBars; 03-30-2023 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 03-30-2023, 12:05 PM   #11
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Ah, I hadn't actually tested this out yet!

So there are MM sets, cool. But how does one define them? I tried setting B with an action but the toggle didn't seem to change the MM I changed. I looked around at the prereleases around Feb 3 and couldn't find a clear explanation...
there are four new Arrange View Left-Drag (A-D) in Mouse Modifiers preferences.
And new actions to swap to them.

Works here.
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Old 03-30-2023, 02:24 PM   #12
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there are four new Arrange View Left-Drag (A-D) in Mouse Modifiers preferences.
And new actions to swap to them.

Works here.
Thanks Jon, but I can't figure out the order to do this. Can someone spell it out? I see Set, Toggle, and 1 Clear action. Are the changes supposed to be reflected in the MM Prefs?
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:22 PM   #13
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set how you want in preferences, press apply

run one of the actions to change your left-drag to new config.

The Clear action returns to the non ABCD layout
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Old 03-30-2023, 04:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
run one of the actions to change your left-drag to new config.
Ohhhh I see these are brand new Arrange View MM modes that override every other MM! Neato, thanks Jon!
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:16 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
v6.74+dev0203 - February 3 2023
+ Actions: remove actions like "set default mouse modifier for _context_ to _action_"

This was always kind of a bad design anyway (one action for every possible mouse modifier), many of the actions didn't work, and it was not futureproof. That change will not be in a release version until v7.
I have to say this change surprised me. (Although I can see how it was a bad design and bloated the action list, sure - I understand the liability there.)

However, don't you think it would be nice to have an automatic fallback solution for users who used old actions, and possibly spent a lot of time to get their workflow just right, so that their setup doesn't end up broken?

Something like automatically generating scripts to match the old behaviors and relinking old toolbar bindings/kbd shortcuts to those scripts instead of those old action IDs?
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Old 07-30-2023, 10:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Note that you can accomplish the same thing with the ReaScript function SetMouseModifier().
So in dev builds and in v7, I'll have to script if I want to create a button to set mouse to paint notes, for instance? If that's it, ouch.
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Old 07-31-2023, 04:31 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by ceanganb View Post
So in dev builds and in v7, I'll have to script if I want to create a button to set mouse to paint notes, for instance? If that's it, ouch.
That's correct. The script would in that case would be:

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MM_CTX_MIDI_PIANOROLL", 0, "22 m")
For the next +dev build we will make this a bit easier, so that this would also work:

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MIDI piano roll left drag", 0, "Paint notes")

Last edited by schwa; 07-31-2023 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 07-31-2023, 05:34 AM   #18
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That's correct. The script would in that case would be:

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MM_CTX_MIDI_PIANOROLL", 0, "m22")
Schwa, why not let users export mousemaps as actions? Sockmonkey created a fantastic and super useful script for this reason, but this would be nice to be native so all users could easily find and use for this reason. I think many users won't start creating scripts if they have no idea how to do.
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Old 07-31-2023, 06:57 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post

For the next +dev build we will make this a bit easier, so that this would also work:

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MIDI piano roll left drag", 0, "Paint notes")
That will be a nice, user-friendly move.
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Old 07-31-2023, 03:28 PM   #20
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Another problem is the crazy amount of bugs in the mouse modifiers.
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=273726
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Old 08-07-2023, 07:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
v6.74+dev0203 - February 3 2023
+ Actions: remove actions like "set default mouse modifier for _context_ to _action_"

This was always kind of a bad design anyway (one action for every possible mouse modifier), many of the actions didn't work, and it was not futureproof.
Schwa, can I ask what is planned workaround for these? What is a replacement for deleting such actions as: "set default mouse modifier for _context_ to _action_"? Excluding scripting...
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Old 08-07-2023, 09:08 AM   #22
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This is the entire script required to change a default mouse modifier. It's pretty user friendly, no?

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MIDI piano roll left drag", 0, "Paint notes")
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Old 08-07-2023, 09:13 AM   #23
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Ok, got it. Thanks!
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Old 08-07-2023, 09:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This is the entire script required to change a default mouse modifier. It's pretty user friendly, no?

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MIDI piano roll left drag", 0, "Paint notes")
I don't know if you saw in the 7.0pre3 thread, my suggestion is a toggle in the mouse modifiers to unhide the actions.

I don't think the Main Alt 1-16 and arrange view ABCD is a better system and I can't rebuild custom workflows with them.

FWIW I only use mouse modifier swaps for a couple purposes
1 - 'Fast edit mode' to make click on item split with crossfade, drag on bottom half move contents, top of item move item.

2 - 'normal edit mode' to revert to defaults when finished with fast mode

3 - In MIDI editor to not change play cursor position during playback. Its incredibly frustrating to edit a loop of MIDI when the cursor moves with every click.

possibly some others that I use without realizing

And its frustrating that these problems I've already solved, documented, and shared with hundreds of users will now need separate scripts for reaper 6 and 7.

I don't want to have to tell people that updating to v7 will break things
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Old 08-07-2023, 10:09 AM   #25
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I understand the issue, but please take it as a given that the previous system of exporting one action for every possible mouse modifier simply has to change. Those old actions will not be supported after 7.0. So the conversation has to be about what the easiest way is to support users who used those actions previously.
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Old 08-07-2023, 11:59 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I understand the issue, but please take it as a given that the previous system of exporting one action for every possible mouse modifier simply has to change. Those old actions will not be supported after 7.0. So the conversation has to be about what the easiest way is to support users who used those actions previously.
I agree keeping all these MM actions around is poor UX and the transition sounds like a great move in general, but we ought to have some sort of method for conversion of old workflows.

My first thought on this is to create a conversion tool that would translate the old actions into the new scripts.

Is it possible to export custom actions for manipulation via ReaScript, or would such a conversion utility only be possible natively inside Reaper?
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Old 08-07-2023, 11:25 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This is the entire script required to change a default mouse modifier. It's pretty user friendly, no?

Code:
reaper.SetMouseMapAction("MIDI piano roll left drag", 0, "Paint notes")
All these situation with removing MM actions looks like this:
Developers remove MM actions, so users must write their own scripts. As a result, the MM actions will stay in the action window, only now they will be scripts. It feels like the whole idea is to replace MM actions with scripts ...
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Old 08-08-2023, 12:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I understand the issue, but please take it as a given that the previous system of exporting one action for every possible mouse modifier simply has to change. Those old actions will not be supported after 7.0. So the conversation has to be about what the easiest way is to support users who used those actions previously.
Well, it certainly poses a problem. Production-wise, it is a step back. A convoluted system was better than none. I thought it would be easier, but not being a programmer makes it hard to take simple decisions like selecting a tool to paint notes, another for editing note velocities, and another to edit CC.

Now I have to wait for another user to script a solution, till then I have to create in another DAW, and I love Reaper exactly for its customizability. I hoped for lotta MIDI love in v7. All the code's already there, devs. Reaper's potential to be the top option for production is being wasted, IMHO!
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Old 08-08-2023, 02:15 AM   #29
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I never used this feature of mouse modifier switching actions, but if I understand this correctly, other users used it as a workaround to avoid mouse-modifier based workflow and use something like a tool-based workflow?

The advantage of a modifier-based system is that everything is doable without first having to switch tools via action. The disadvantage is that it can be many modifiers to remember and wrong edits because of accidentally holdinh a wrong modifier.

The advantage of a toolbased system is that complex modifier combinations are not neccessary and all can be done with the mouse buttons. The disadvantage is that evey different edit from the previous requires first choosing a tool.

While I personally still prefer the modifier-system, wouldn’t this be a good occasion to implement a tool based system too to have best of both worlds and a more elegant solution for what previously needed the mouse modifier action workflow?

It could be tool-toggles assigned to shortcut keys. For example “click 1 to override the default action with pencil”, “click 2 to override the default action with eraser”, “click 2 again to return to the default mouse modifier behavior”.

This could come in form of a “tools” preference page or similar where the user can map a given set of tools (equivalent to the possible mouse modifier behaviors) to hotkeys. By default the tools could be mapped to the numbers and if the default is already taken just leave them unassigned and for the user to set up.
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Old 08-08-2023, 02:42 AM   #30
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Hey phazma, check this golden script by sockmonkey that can create tools based on your mousemaps.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=274642
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Old 08-08-2023, 02:57 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
if I understand this correctly, other users used it as a workaround to avoid mouse-modifier based workflow and use something like a tool-based workflow?
Personally I'm not avoiding mouse-modifier based workflow. I use both.

Quote:
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wouldn’t this be a good occasion to implement a tool based system too to have best of both worlds and a more elegant solution for what previously needed the mouse modifier action workflow?
Would be great. This is partially solved with Armed Actions, at least for Left Mouse Click. But whatever action is Armed, it always moves Edit Cursor to the mouse posution, and it drives me crazy(
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Old 08-08-2023, 03:44 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I understand the issue, but please take it as a given that the previous system of exporting one action for every possible mouse modifier simply has to change. Those old actions will not be supported after 7.0. So the conversation has to be about what the easiest way is to support users who used those actions previously.
I think this is a great change moving forward. Would an option be to retain the existing 6.81 actions for backward compatibility, either visibly or invisibly?
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Old 08-08-2023, 07:08 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazma View Post
It could be tool-toggles assigned to shortcut keys. For example “click 1 to override the default action with pencil”, “click 2 to override the default action with eraser”, “click 2 again to return to the default mouse modifier behavior”.
This is the intention of the "arrange view override" mouse modifier sections that are new in v7. By default, v7 will have three new toolbar buttons, each of which activates a different mouse modifier override section for the arrange view. By default, one override section is set up for marquee selection, one for razor edits, and one for comping.

It's not a complete substitute for changing default mouse modifiers one by one, though, for various reasons.
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Old 08-08-2023, 07:49 AM   #34
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Quote:
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This is the intention of the "arrange view override" mouse modifier sections that are new in v7. By default, v7 will have three new toolbar buttons, each of which activates a different mouse modifier override section for the arrange view. By default, one override section is set up for marquee selection, one for razor edits, and one for comping.

It's not a complete substitute for changing default mouse modifiers one by one, though, for various reasons.
Oh I missed out on that as it’s not part of my workflow (yet). Sounds interesting though, will try it out.

Looks like what is being argued over doesn’t concern me so I will keep out of the discussion instead of belittling or derailing from other people’s needs.
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Old 08-08-2023, 08:10 AM   #35
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one override section is set up for marquee selection, one for razor edits, and one for comping
this sounds like a terrific workflow imo
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Old 08-08-2023, 08:23 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This is the intention of the "arrange view override" mouse modifier sections that are new in v7. By default, v7 will have three new toolbar buttons, each of which activates a different mouse modifier override section for the arrange view. By default, one override section is set up for marquee selection, one for razor edits, and one for comping.

It's not a complete substitute for changing default mouse modifiers one by one, though, for various reasons.
not finding override default mode A or D too useful compared to B, or none. (if not using mouseup action) Once you you marquee select items you can't do anything with them. Can't fade, move, change volume, trim.
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Old 08-08-2023, 08:26 AM   #37
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not finding override default mode A or D too useful compared to B, or none. (if not using mouseup action) Once you you marquee select items you can't do anything with them. Can't fade, move, change volume, trim.
Without getting too off-topic, my primary use-case for the additional arrange modes is as tool modes when working on, for instance, a Macbook trackpad, where right-click-drag is a wrist-killer. So switch to marquee mode to select, switch back to 'normal' mode after that.
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Old 08-08-2023, 09:10 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by sockmonkey72 View Post
Without getting too off-topic, my primary use-case for the additional arrange modes is as tool modes when working on, for instance, a Macbook trackpad, where right-click-drag is a wrist-killer. So switch to marquee mode to select, switch back to 'normal' mode after that.
Yeah I can see that being helpful. Its been so long since I edited on a macbook, but I always had a magic mouse with me. Another thing that helps is setting it up to use taps instead of pressing down. 1-finger tap for left click. 2 finger tap for right-drag, 3 finger for left drag.
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Old 08-08-2023, 09:20 AM   #39
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By default, v7 will have three new toolbar buttons, each of which activates a different mouse modifier override section for the arrange view. By default, one override section is set up for marquee selection, one for razor edits, and one for comping.
That is great! i guess in this scenario: "razor edits toolbar is selected" no other modifiers will work in this "mode" other then the ones defined for this context. Example: while in RE i can't marque select.
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Old 08-08-2023, 11:22 AM   #40
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Still thinking about easing this transition, we could add an action to the mouse modifier 'import/export' button called something like 'export action to set these mouse modifiers for this context'.

The action would then write the set of current mouse modifiers to an script that the user can name, with a default name like 'MIDI piano roll - Paint notes.lua' (or whatever the default action currently is). That script would then be available in the action list.
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