Track Lanes Discussion

[schwa]

There is a minor bug when doing this that will be fixed in the next release: the hidden lane indicator is not cleared.

[cool]

Originally Posted by schwa

There is a minor bug when doing this that will be fixed in the next release: the hidden lane indicator is not cleared.

Cool! Thank you!

[Ben Zero]

Originally Posted by Ben Zero

With 'Preferences > Appearance > Highlight edit cursor over last selected track' enabled:

It would be really useful and consistent (with the general UI if not with the current preference labelling) if the 'caret' cursor was shown on the last clicked track lane, so you knew where pasting would take place. It currently "highlights" the whole track, including all lanes, which seems to be missing a trick!

Thanks for implementing this guys! (I think in the latest dev release).

Really neat and elegant - great job.

Ben

[bolgwrad]

Is there a setting to defeat this behaviour? I know I can dbl-click on a crossfade arm, or use 'trim behind item', but I don't want it in the first place, and I don't want the fade to persist. Auto-CF set 'off', btw.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by bolgwrad

Is there a setting to defeat this behaviour? I know I can dbl-click on a crossfade arm, or use 'trim behind item', but I don't want it in the first place, and I don't want the fade to persist. Auto-CF set 'off', btw.

Ah, that's a bug, it should respect the autocrossfade toolbar button.

[cyril_meysson]

Is it expected that empty lanes are not saved in track templates? Or have I missed an option somewhere?

[fazmakesmusic]

Originally Posted by JRTaylorMusic

I made a post in the FR forum about this, but I'm curious if anyone else would use this.

My ideal workflow is a combination of OG Reaper Takes and Fixed Media Item Lanes.

• Show/play only one lane
• New recording splits existing items and adds takes (into currently shown lane)
• Empty lanes are added manually (and recording always takes place in currently selected lane(s)

I agree.

I’m still trying to the learn the fixed lanes workflow; I love the concept but I always go in expecting them to function as tracks within/behind tracks and get confused by the current behaviour.

With your requests above and having actions regarding items treating lanes as separate tracks we’d have a really powerful system with fixed lanes.

[J Riley Hill]

I'm using the workflow of recording with "comping" on and only the comp lane visible. Mostly I'm using keyboard shortcuts with a handful of the provided actions. For the most part it works like a dream!!

Using this workflow, I'm noticing, a little quirk with these two actions that makes them a bit hard to use:
Fixed lane comp area: Move comp area down for selected items. 42708
Fixed lane comp area: Move comp area up for selected items. 4270

I can select different items with comping on and if I trigger those actions from a keyboard shortcut it will toggle through the available items under that area. Even creating a new comp area if needed. (which is great!) But if there starts to be lanes that don't have any content in them in that space it will cycle in "nothing" into the comp area and the shortcut will no longer work. This makes sense (as their is no item being selected anymore)but it results in the actions feeling like you get "stuck" at times.

I notice that currently when you click on the arrows for "change fixed lane comp area" with the mouse it ignores any empty lanes. If it's possible for the aforementioned actions to have the same behaviour (of not switching in space from empty lanes) it would make them more reliable/useful for a mouseless workflow!!

[schwa]

Originally Posted by J Riley Hill

If it's possible for the aforementioned actions to have the same behaviour (of not switching in space from empty lanes)

Yes, that makes sense, we can change the behavior of those actions to only switch to source lanes that contain media.

[J Riley Hill]

Awesome!

[bolgwrad]

If I use the 'rename lane under mouse' action ID 42472 (assigned to alt+left click here, but happens with any modifier), the action doesn't exit until I click again on the desired lane header button - so that the entered new name follows the mouse up and down the track lanes. Wondering if this is intended.

[ferropop]

Hope this is the best place to post this:



Razoring everything in Fixed Lanes Layering tracks is currently super frustrating. Because RE selects per-lane (and not per-track) and it's not possible to collapse FL Layering tracks, Microscopic precision is required to ensure everything is selected, no more no less. At 4k this is a constant battle.

Been really pushing for a collapsed state for multi-lane-playing FL tracks like the above, I hope this demonstrates one of the many use-cases beyond simple aesthetics.


proposal : a collapsed view where there's a visual indicator of the contents of the underlying items, but Razor Edits operate on ALL lanes. Could be as simple as showing the waveform preview (like Folders do).


edit: I don't think new mouse modifier actions for "draw Razor Edit on ALL Lanes for track under mouse" is the solution because it's adding yet another set of modifiers for a special case.

[JRTaylorMusic]

Originally Posted by ferropop

edit: I don't think new mouse modifier actions for "draw Razor Edit on ALL Lanes for track under mouse" is the solution because it's adding yet another set of modifiers for a special case.

Why wouldn’t setting this as your default mouse modifier solve the problem?

[mschnell]

I also am afraid of too many modifiers.

BTW.: is there a decent "standard" way of selecting (be that RE or traditional right-drag) for scrolling while selecting ?

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by JRTaylorMusic

Why wouldn’t setting this as your default mouse modifier solve the problem?

First it doesn't exist yet.

Second, the intent can be automatically captured by the lane being collapsed/uncollapsed. If things are collapsed, you probably want to capture everything. If things are uncollapsed you probably want the granularity of selecting individual lanes.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by ferropop

Hope this is the best place to post this:



Razoring everything in Fixed Lanes Layering tracks is currently super frustrating. Because RE selects per-lane (and not per-track) and it's not possible to collapse FL Layering tracks, Microscopic precision is required to ensure everything is selected, no more no less. At 4k this is a constant battle.

Been really pushing for a collapsed state for multi-lane-playing FL tracks like the above, I hope this demonstrates one of the many use-cases beyond simple aesthetics.


proposal : a collapsed view where there's a visual indicator of the contents of the underlying items, but Razor Edits operate on ALL lanes. Could be as simple as showing the waveform preview (like Folders do).


edit: I don't think new mouse modifier actions for "draw Razor Edit on ALL Lanes for track under mouse" is the solution because it's adding yet another set of modifiers for a special case.

Maybe that?

Fixed Lanes Layering tracks are little --> razor can't select all the lanes inside the fixed track.
Fixed Lanes Layering tracks are medium or big --> razor can select all the lanes inside the fixed track.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Maybe that?

Fixed Lanes Layering tracks are little --> razor can't select all the lanes inside the fixed track.
Fixed Lanes Layering tracks are medium or big --> razor can select all the lanes inside the fixed track.

This is what I'm proposing.

[JRTaylorMusic]

Gotcha! In that case I think it’s a great idea, ferropop!

[deeb]

Originally Posted by JRTaylorMusic

Gotcha! In that case I think it’s a great idea, ferropop!

I am not sure has I am not trying on the computer. My feeling tells me to be careful about that. Maybe it could be an option. Maybe same option for RE select invisible envelopes lanes could work for that. But I don’t want to switch to big lanes in order to select individual lanes.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by deeb

I am not sure has I am not trying on the computer. My feeling tells me to be careful about that. Maybe it could be an option. Maybe same option for RE select invisible envelopes lanes could work for that. But I don’t want to switch to big lanes in order to select individual lanes.

For sure needs some careful consideration deeb. But you see the issue above right? If you create a layered sound that now acts as one "unit", we need a way to treat it as a unit instead of selecting individual 5-pixel lanes. To me it seems reasonable that if a FL track is collapsed the intention is that the stuff in it is to be treated as a unit.

Again though, I don't think "big lanes" and "little lanes" are enough - I'm proposing an actual collapsed state as the best way to handle this. But any version of the above is better than what we have.


edit : Schwa has suggested "just take the track out of fixed lanes" but this just feels like a hack because we end up with a mess of overlapping items and no indicator that "this is actually a FL track that is taken out of FL mode for aesthetics".



...it works, it just feels like a bad idea in lieu of an actual solution

[ferropop]

Like, I guess a script could be written that checks if there's multiple lanes playing and if so prepend the track name with [FL] to indicate it's actually a FL track, and then take the track out of FL to "collapse" it. And the opposite - if a track has [FL] in the name the action would put it back into FL mode.

But sheesh haha.

[Wayland]

Hi there!
Really fond of Fixed Lines and almost get used to work with audio. (Multitrack record/comping too)

But Midi in Fixed lines brings some questions to the table

1) when comping midi To Comp Lane all selected parts that gets into C1 are automaticly pooled with source midi in Lanes

And i cant find any options to disable such behavior. In my most common workflow i want Lanes to be stock of my media, and Comp Lane - is my working table to move, edit, stretch, delete and so on. Almost like audio. I need to experiment - but be sure i have original takes in stock. Pooled MIDI ruins whole idea. If i edit, move or delete some MIDI notes - they are gone forever, and original performance and timing of musician is lost.
Manually disabling POOL after every New comp select is very complex and uncontrolled.
I hope some checkbox for POOLing midi when comping Fixed Lanes would be a dealmaker.
From my perspective i cant find any obvious reason to Pool edit oroginal MIDI takes. But if it needs in some cases - i still think UNPOOLED comping should be default (as thats how audio comping works at first place) and POOLing should be an option

2) Exporting MIDI track with FL - gives the summing result of all lanes, even inactive. So each note is multiplied by Lanes quantity (if performacne is same)

I try export MIDI selected items and only select visible Midi items from active C1
That works, but i found it confusing.

If i have only one lane active in my project. Thats my selected take or final comping lane - i see only it, i hear only it working in Project, thats my final desicion. I suppose EXPORTING should include only Active Lanes.

If i use several active lanes for separate Midi parts or smth like that - thats super logical to export midi including all active notes

And if i use FL as a stock of performance takes, and i use Comping or Select one best take - im pretty sure exporting this track to Midi should export only notes of my choise - not all the takes.

In each case i feel like exporting MIDI as a RESULT of my work - to send it to another producer or musician - should include only active notes

Update. Loading such Exported MIDI back in Reaper
a) looks super correct in TCP view
b) opens with all the extra notes from other takes i suppose.

I cant even understand if this extra notes are held in other midi channels or whats happens here. May be you could explain a bit.

At the end of the day if i mute some midi notes or midi items - they dont play in project and dont exist in export midi file. With same approach Nonactive (aka muted) lanes maybe should not exist in MIDI export


On screenshot there is result of my MIDI drums Fixed Lines record, comping and MIDI export. I send it to musicians, and they totally lost with dozens of extra notes (MIDI editor view on the right)

[Wayland]

Here is a small test of exporting midi (selected tracks only checkbox in MIDI export)

One screenshot is test orange track and green MIDI fixed lanes with only active item in C1 (and three unactive parts in lanes 1,3,4)

Second screen shot - is how result MIDI imports back to Reaper.
We could see all four parts are active in second track.

[mattn]

The autopunch recording (using pre-roll) in lanes starts at the beginning of the time selection, but does not stop at the end of it.

Even though the correct time selection is auto-comped to the comping lane, I would prefer to not see the part of the recording that is after the time selection. (of course it's good to have it if you need it)

The reason is that when I proceed to the next part of the song, due to the overlap of items, more lanes than necessary are created. Had the visible part of the autopunch recording been restricted to the time selection, the next part of the song could be recorded seemlessly after the end of the time selection without creating new lanes.

It also looks a bit messy in my opinion.

Or is there a reason for this behaviour?
Thanks so much!

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by mattn

The autopunch recording (using pre-roll) in lanes starts at the beginning of the time selection, but does not stop at the end of it.

Even though the correct time selection is auto-comped to the comping lane, I would prefer to not see the part of the recording that is after the time selection. (of course it's good to have it if you need it)

The reason is that when I proceed to the next part of the song, due to the overlap of items, more lanes than necessary are created. Had the visible part of the autopunch recording been restricted to the time selection, the next part of the song could be recorded seemlessly after the end of the time selection without creating new lanes.

It also looks a bit messy in my opinion.

Or is there a reason for this behaviour?
Thanks so much!

There's an option for toggling this.

The reason for having it is because you'll have a ton of issues with creating gaps in the comp when moving the crossfade on punch-ins without this behaviour. If the items are only sized to the punch-in and you move the crossfade, it's just empty space on both sides, and the empty space is what gets moved up to the comp lane.

[bolgwrad]

Is there an option or script to make loop takes in lanes stack from the bottom up, as opposed to top down?

As in the gif, the newest item ends up in the opposite lane to the first take item. Strictly logical, but if you want to keep (or discard) earlier takes there are extra steps, of comping or lane rearrangement.



And if the items you discarded removed their self-created lanes, so much the better.

[FeedTheCat]

Originally Posted by mossan

It would be nice if "Record to Lane" was also applied when "Display/Play Lane Only" is enabled.

+1. I've seen this requested a couple of times now. Imo it would be perfect if you could toggle the "Add lanes" recording option to decide whether you want to record lanes or takes in this case.

The "record into lane" step feels very unnecessary and gimmicky, especially when using fixed item lanes as track alternatives (with classic takes).

If we had this behavior collapsed fixed lane tracks and "classic" tracks would basically merge into the same thing. No need to break old workflows to get access to the new goodies. Think it would help a lot of people with enabling fixed item lanes (collapsed) by default.

Please consider this at least as an option.

[nvk]

I could really benefit from more actions for comp areas. Right now it's hard to create custom actions or scripts that don't require mouse usage. Ideas for some useful actions below.

Fixed lane comp area: Add comp area at time selection to top track lane
Fixed lane comp area: Add comp area at time selection to top track lane containing items
Fixed lane comp area: Add comp area at time selection to bottom track lane
Fixed lane comp area: Add comp area at time selection to bottom track lane containing items
Fixed lane comp area: Add comp area at time selection to selected item track lane
Fixed lane comp area: Move comp area in current time selection down
Fixed lane comp area: Move comp area in current time selection down (no cycle to top)
Fixed lane comp area: Move comp area in current time selection up
Fixed lane comp area: Move comp area in current time selection up (no cycle to top)

[Coachz]

And also being able to delete all of the lanes under a comp without affecting the neighbors that use those lanes also.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=286126

[Jeremy Gillam]

Is the behavior of 42505 "Track lanes: Duplicate items from playing lanes to new lanes" a bug or a feature? When I run that command from TCP or actions list, both the original lane and the new lane play. I'm not sure why you would ever want this, as it results in phase issues. Seems to me only the new, duplicated lane should play. I've made customs actions that run that command then run "42638 Track properties: Show/play only one fixed item lane" twice in a row, but it's not ideal. Or maybe I am missing something!

Also, it would be great to get separate actions for "show all lanes" and "show only one lane" rather than just a toggle. In addition to comping I'm using lanes for keeping track of previous versions of sounds and MIDI and it would make the custom actions work better.

Another thing — duplicating a lane with MIDI pools the MIDI data with the previous lane, even though pool MIDI data is turned off in prefs. Again I've made custom actions, but it seems a little not right to me.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Gillam

Is the behavior of 42505 "Track lanes: Duplicate items from playing lanes to new lanes" a bug or a feature? When I run that command from TCP or actions list, both the original lane and the new lane play. I'm not sure why you would ever want this, as it results in phase issues. Seems to me only the new, duplicated lane should play. I've made customs actions that run that command then run "42638 Track properties: Show/play only one fixed item lane" twice in a row, but it's not ideal. Or maybe I am missing something!

I actually can't reproduce that. When I run the action, the original lanes continue to play, and the duplicated lanes do not play. Can you verify that you are using the latest REAPER version?

[Jeremy Gillam]

Originally Posted by schwa

I actually can't reproduce that. When I run the action, the original lanes continue to play, and the duplicated lanes do not play. Can you verify that you are using the latest REAPER version?

Hi Schwa, yes, I'm on 7.09, M3 Macbook Pro MacOS 14.3 (23D56). I just tested it on a portable installation and I'm getting the same behavior. Make a new track, go to track>fixed item lanes, right click on fixed items lanes context menu and duplicate items to new lane. Result - both lanes play. It happens with an audio item and an empty MIDI item.

[schwa]

Ah I see, I think it only happens if all existing lanes are currently playing (which is always the case when there is only one lane). We can fix.

[Jeremy Gillam]

Originally Posted by schwa

Ah I see, I think it only happens if all existing lanes are currently playing (which is always the case when there is only one lane). We can fix.

That would be great.

To expand a little on my other suggestion for separate actions to "show all lanes" vs "show only one lane" — I'm trying to put together some custom actions that perform a function to only the playing lane, for example nudge all items on the currently playing lane, and I'm getting some erratic behavior. For example, if multiple lanes are visible and I run "40421 Item: Select all items in track," all items in all visible lanes are selected. But if only one lane is shown/played, only the items in that lane are selected. When I run a custom action "1) Unset free item positioning/fixed item lanes, 2) Select all items in track, 3) Set fixed item lanes" the result is still dependent on the initial state of the show all lanes, vs show/play only one lane toggle. So if I run the custom action with multiple lanes visible, all items on all lanes are selected, but if only one lane is visible and playing only the items on that lane are selected. I fully admit the possibility of user error — but I'm stumped!

[bolgwrad]

TL:-DR Double (or single) clicking a time selection comp area with 'comp source edit' enabled selects the whole lane item, not the time selection.

Has anybody flagged this before? NB This behaviour only happens with 'Allow editing source media while comping' is enabled. Without it, clicking on a time-selected item with comping on works as expected. (You don't even have to double-click, it's a breeze).

Long read: What I'm trying to do.
With source item comp editing enabled, if you have a few takes in lanes, some of which are only fragments (inserts), you can set a time selection to one of these, then right-click the comp area and select 'Add comp area at time selection' which splits the comp area at the original item - you then select your insert at the comp area and it's comped. Great, if clunky.

What I've tried to do using mouse mods is enable 'double-click on fixed lane comp area: add comp area at time selection for lane under mouse', which I hoped would eliminate a right-click, a click and a click in the target lane.

What happens (see gif) is that the comp area gets a single split at the mouse, which does not respect the time selection or transfer to the target lane.

[Wayland]

Hi there!
Seems like important issue here.

Reaper v7.11
Recording Audio + MIDI in lanes
MIDI track is in Record:Input mode
That way MIDI records even as empty item and lenght is identical to audio items from same pass.
Group tracks with Media/Razor Edit option

after recording only audio tracks are selecting, moving and trim together
No red box around midi items. Midi items could be only split with rest tracks.

Even 6.75 dev version works better - editing audio track in group doesent control midi, but editing midi track in group controls audio tracks

I was going to record video of both how 7.11 and 6.75 works with midi+audio grouping

But in the middle of experiment i found out some crazy thing. Looks like after i manually trim end of one take in all traks - grouping works fine again. Selects both audio and midi with red box, trim and move all together.

It seems like after recordig MIDI item is slight different length from audio. I check different ppq settings but it doesent affect much.

Now i realise its not exactly lanes problem, but i found it in context of lanes recording of MIDI and AUDIO (its very important when recording MIDI dr + live cymbals, or Real Synth audio + midi simultaneously)
Let me know if i should post this in other thread.

Sometimes it needs to be trimed from start too.

Pls let me know if there is some setting i could be missing, or it's really a bug here.

PS
I cant upload gif as it's 1.75 mb
And i cant attach it from dropbox - it says invalid file
I cant even upload it as zip

So here is images
One image - i select all 3 lanes in Track 1. Track 2 (Audio) is selected with red box. Track 3 (MIDI) is unselected
Second image - is ZOOM to show MIDI really starts a bit earlier (wich i suppose is a problem) (Image 4 is a test and yeah - midi ends later too after record)
Third image - after i trim both start and end for every lane - i select all lanes in tarck 1- and all other tracks are selected too with red box. and moves and edit as it should be

EDITED: just find out - Use Audio Driver Report Latency - when OFF - audio and midi records as group and selects with red box
BUT only clicking audio selects BOTH audio and midi
Clicking MIDI ignores group.
Half way there, but it would be perfect if Midi and audio recorded in one path will always be exact same lenght. (It could be even trimmed automaticly, just we hadnt make it manually to keep grouping)

OMG - Use Audio Driver Report Latency OFF - works only in dev 6.75
Back to 7.11 and it doesent help. Midi and audio recorded in one take - are different lenght and doesent group.

[MonkeyBars]

Wayland, I'm having trouble understanding from your descriptions.

I recommend making a LICEcap and uploading to imgur

[Wayland]

Hi there!

Hope now link to gif works

Tracks 1 and 2 - audio input
Track 3 - midi input

1) Right after recording groupped tracks - only top 2 audio tracks are RED selected
2) When edit those lanes later - only audio tracks are RED selected (grouped)
3) After i cut/trim both start and end of Audio and MIDI from same take - now it's groupping, red selected and move/edit together

This fact + Max Zoom in - shows that Audio and midi recorded together have some samples different Start and End. And it kills grouping

I have Reaper 7.11
Win 11
Aurora Lynx N

Maybe there is some deep setting to avoid this.
Thanks

PS
Im extremly sorry

I have done several gifs with LICEcap
The last one is 813*508 px
632 kb

I upload it on Imgur, copy link and it says Invalid file in Manage attachments

Tried Dropbox - and same - Invalid File

Has to done super small super low fps GIF to fit 256 kb size

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by Wayland

PS
Im extremly sorry

I have done several gifs with LICEcap
The last one is 813*508 px
632 kb

I upload it on Imgur, copy link and it says Invalid file in Manage attachments

You don't attach it. You insert the image URL as an image on this forum

[Wayland]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

You don't attach it. You insert the image URL as an image on this forum

You are totally correct
As i mentioned - none of my attempts to link imgur gif uploads with Manage Attachments work. It says only Ivalid File
I thought imgur lets upload bigger and longer gif

Thats why i choose to make very small gif that fits to Manage Attachments requirements

Maybe i should insert link to imgur direct in message?

https://i.imgur.com/sNsluA3.gif

PS
I tried to paste Imgur "Copy Link" in URL of Attach Manager
Maybe thats why it says invalid file
I just tried to RMB on gif uploaded at imgur - and copy link of image.
Ok, now my link end with .gif
Uhhhu!
And Attach Manager now says - the file is too big.