Old 07-26-2011, 10:33 AM   #1
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default Video - frame troubles

I'm getting nuts here with the video thing. I can't navigate to a lot of frames directly from the left to the right. From the right to the left works always, though.

I've got one video track (mov, Motion JPEG A, 25 fps), the BPM set to 60, the grid line spacing set to 1/100 and the project's framerate set to 25.

I move the edit cursor right to grid division from 0:00:08:09 (hours:minutes:seconds:frames) to :10 - nothing happens. I move the edit cursor right to grid division from :10 to :11 and frame #10 shows up for maybe half a sec and frame #11 comes up, immediatly afterwards.

I move the edit cursor from :11 to :10 and frame #10 shows up, as it should. I move from :10 to :09 and frame #9 is there. So right to left seems the only way if you want to have a certain frame.

I'm on Win7 64 bit using Reaper 4, beta 21. Will try the latest Reaper 3 build, soon (though I don't think it's due to it's beta status, that's why I don't post in the pre-release forums). Reaper's internal video settings are set up according to this: http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...Internal_Video

Anyone experiencing the same problem? What can I do to fix this?
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2011, 01:26 PM   #2
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default

Weird.

Maybe 240 BPM with 1/25 grid will serve you better. Might want to try that. That's one thing that changed from v3 to v4, so keep that in mind when testing v3, which is somewhat inferior in the video department AFAIK.

How have you setup your video decoding ? You're using the FFMPEG DLL files ? OS decoding checked ?

x64 or x86 version of Reaper ? I use Win7 x64 but use a 32-bit version of Reaper, which seems to do great.

There's some additional information on FFMPEG files here, just in case :
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=82459
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2011, 06:33 AM   #3
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

Thanks for the tip with the 240 BPM, I had already given up on this one

I use Reaper's 64 bit version (I'm also scoring films, so I need my 16 Gigs of RAM).

I'm using the FFMPEG DLL files from here http://aegiscorp.free.fr/ffmpeg/ (as explained here http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/Video_Support ). 64 bit version, of course.

OS Decoding is NOT checked. When it's checked, everything is worse (video only works when playing but not when seeking or going one frame right or clicking somewhere in the project).
I always have the latest K-Lite Codec Pack installed. First, I install the Mega Pack (32 bit), then the 64 bit pack, afterwards.

I read through the link you posted, carefully. I tried the newest 64 bit build from the link you posted in that topic (http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/ , here, I got this file http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/win...in64-shared.7z ). But something has changed there, in the bin folder is an avcodec-53 instead of 52, an avformat-53, an avutil-51 and a swscale-2. And Reaper doesn't seem to recognize these files.

Any Idea what's going on there?

EDIT:

Ok, I just nailed it down. I installed Reaper 3.77 builds (x86 & x64), they work fine. So, the issue is related to the beta.

I realized, that it does not occure on every frame, but with lots of frames and these specific frames of that video are always affected.

@Admin
Could you move this topic to the right forum? Sorry, I thought it's a simple issue for which I'd have to set a specific setting only ...

Last edited by Reaktor:[Dave]; 07-27-2011 at 07:37 AM. Reason: New information, don't want to double post
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2011, 12:54 PM   #4
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: brighton, uk
Posts: 12,568
Default

Just in case you really need to resort to the 32bit version reaper has the possibility of "firewalling" plugins into their own process thread which then allows them to use as much memory as needed

This also stops a plug in crashing the whole of reaper too.

There is a mode that even makes it seem like they is no difference between firewalled and none firewalled (i.e. no additional window)

Ideally though I hope you get it all working in 64 bit!
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 07:32 AM   #5
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

Oh, I forgot to mention I also tested the 32 bit beta 22 (and the rc1 x86 & x64) and the problem still exists. Version 3 works fine (both, x86 and x64), it's got something to do with the new version 4.

Interesting: some passages in the video files work fine, then, some don't. I tried different video files and while there's never a problem from :03:00 to :03:24 (seconds:frames), it occurs always between :08:00 and :08:24. But NOT in Reaper Version 3 ...
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 09:52 AM   #6
SamboBing
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
Default

I've had similar results with V4 (beta and RC). A friend sent me a Windows Media File (WMV) he wanted me to do some sound work on. I pull it in to V4 and the video stutters all over the place (audio is fine). I've tried letting the OS handle the playback as well as FFMPEG. No dice.

I pull the same Windows Media File into V3 and it works like a champ. No stutter. There's definitely a gremlin somewhere in the video code of V4. I just hope the devs fix it before final build. It's hard to go back to V3 once you used V4
SamboBing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2011, 10:06 AM   #7
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

Though WMV certainly is not a good codec choice to work with when it comes to post production, it's still interesting, that the issues are gone when switching back to Reaper 3, too.

My workflow relies to much on "save minimal undo state", which is a version 4 feature. I won't give that away!

So, hopefully other users are going to realize the issue so the devs may fix it in the next rc
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 05:18 AM   #8
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default

You may want to send Cockos one of the offending video files that work well in v3. I suggest uploading it in an encrypted RAR to a filesharing service and sending the link and a bug report to support AT cockos DOT com.

Christophe seems to handle the video part of Reaper and he rarely shows up, but he always appreciates whatever help you can give him.

Could you post the item source properties of the video file you had such problems with ? (CTRL+F2 default shortcut) I'd like to compare that to my own files.

Have you tried the latest release candidate of v4 yet ?


I too get some frozen frames with large frame sizes and H264 compression in MP4 files, but the Quicktime-MotionJPegs have been alright for me so far.

Reaper does seem to have problems handling larger frames sizes, which is why I'm usually sticking to sub-720p resolutions.

If you'd like to test how well Reaper does on really high-performance-demand files, try this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQq_ZnSdGxQ

In the comments you'll find a download link to the 60 fps 1080p version. That's a good test of what Reaper can simply play. VLC plays this well, but Reaper fails miserably with freezing frames. In full screen it fails a lot, but less so in smaler video window sizes, which I find most perculiar.

This points to bugs or slowdowns in the drawing code of Reaper.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-29-2011 at 05:30 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 06:01 AM   #9
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

I'm uploading the files and are going to send a bug report to cockos later this day. Should I also contact Christophe directly?

Item Source Properties:
Quote:
Length: 4:25.240
Video: 480x270@25.00fps, Aspect=1.00, Decoding format=YV12


Using FFmpeg DLL decoder v52.66.0 (--enable-shared --disable-static --cross-prefix=x86_64-w64-mingw32- --cc=ccache-x86_64-w64-mingw32-gcc --extra-cflags='-Dstrtod=__strtod' --arch=x86_64 --target-os=mingw32 --enable-runtime-cpudetect --enable-avisynth --enable-gpl --enable-version3 --enable-bzlib --enable-libgsm --enable-libfaad --enable-pthreads --enable-libvorbis --enable-libtheora --enable-libspeex --enable-libmp3lame --enable-libopenjpeg --enable-libxvid --enable-libschroedinger --enable-libx264 --enable-libopencore_amrwb --enable-libopencore_amrnb)
Video: mjpeg, yuvj420p, 480x270 [PAR 72:72 DAR 16:9], 4207 kb/s
I'm using tha latest build (4rc2).

The video files are q1080p (converted from 1080p to 480x270) as I prefer to have more cpu power for my sound design rather than the picture.
I'm downloading the movie file and will test how it's gonna work.

I tried the trick with the small window size, but it doesn't improve anything (even tried somewhat 16x9 pixels).

EDIT: Tried the movie. Plays well in MPC, but not in Reaper. Sound works, but the video window shows only one single frame of the movie, even when resizing the window to something small.

Last edited by Reaktor:[Dave]; 07-29-2011 at 06:12 AM.
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 06:27 AM   #10
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default

I'll test my Quicktimes in the x64 version of Reaper. Hopefully it'll work at all :P .

Most of my videos are 512 x 288 or in a similar range. Only for cinematic material or ADR do I go with higher resolutions, but then it's usually in Protools, which is 32-bit only anyway.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 07:02 AM   #11
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default


I've tested a bunch of my 512x288 MJPEGA(great for interlaced) and PhotoJPEG(great for progressive) Quicktimes.

Right out the gate, Reaper plays aboslutely no Quicktimes by itself, and neither does Windows, which the Windows Media Player shows. It can only play the more comon H264 Quicktimes and perhaps Sorensen stuff(haven't tested that).

With or without OS decoding, that drew a blank.


On to the FFMPEG builds.

The Zeranoe builds didn't work. At all. Reaper x64 does not appear to even see them. Reaper probably needs to be updated to use those. Let's hope they are better and that Reaper one day is able to use them if they are.


The old builds however in the archive ffmpeg-dll-r22716-win64.zip did work. I'll update the video playback and export thread. -edit- Updated.

Anyone who wants to test those files, grab the x64 archive here and extract the DLL files in to the program directory where the reaper.exe is. http://aegiscorp.free.fr/ffmpeg/


Remember!!! folks. This is only for Quicktime MJPEGA and PhotoJPEG files. Everything else is untested.

That 60fps/1080p video I mentioned above doesn't work at all. The sound plays, but is scratchy, and there's no video frame showing up. Blank, black.

That 60fps/1080p video is played back very badly by the Windows Media Player as well. Only VLC delivers. Maybe the Reaper devs ought to check out their playback code .

This is all without a Codec pack installed. I can't see how that is going to improve the playback system of Reaper itself.

The x64 version of Reaper has some way to go in the video playback realm.


__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-29-2011 at 07:12 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 07:15 AM   #12
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post

On to the FFMPEG builds.

The Zeranoe builds didn't work. At all. Reaper x64 does not appear to even see them. Reaper probably needs to be updated to use those. Let's hope they are better and that Reaper one day is able to use them if they are.


The old builds however in the archive ffmpeg-dll-r22716-win64.zip did work. I'll update the video playback and export thread once a few more folks confirm it.

Anyone who wants to test those files, grab the x64 archive here and extract the DLL files in to the program directory where the reaper.exe is. http://aegiscorp.free.fr/ffmpeg/
Yup, you're right. I pointed that already out, here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave] View Post
I read through the link you posted, carefully. I tried the newest 64 bit build from the link you posted in that topic (http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/ , here, I got this file http://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/win...in64-shared.7z ). But something has changed there, in the bin folder is an avcodec-53 instead of 52, an avformat-53, an avutil-51 and a swscale-2. And Reaper doesn't seem to recognize these files.
You have to use the old version of the ffmpeg. But the newest Zeranoe x86 builds also have the new naming scheme.

I'm kinda happy that big video file doesn't work for you, too (thought I need to upgrade...). But it's h.264, so it doesn't really apply.

Anyway, you can get video playback on x64 with the old Aegiscorp build. It's flawless in Reaper 3 and not so tight in Reaper 4.

Last edited by Reaktor:[Dave]; 07-29-2011 at 07:48 AM.
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 07:34 AM   #13
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default

Then that's a confirm of your findings. Nice.

I've posted in the Video Playback and Export thread to remind Cockos of this.

-edit-
Btw, which Zernoe builds worked for you ? Can you point them out ?
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-29-2011 at 07:42 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 08:08 AM   #14
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

Sorry, I mixed them up. I tried all Zernoe builds, but they all have another naming scheme, so I sticked to the Aegiscorp x64 build.
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 09:18 AM   #15
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default

I've done some more tests with that MP4 files, a WMV file and some Quicktime MJPEGA/PhotoJPEG files, and posted the results in the Video Playback and Export thread.

Interesting results. OS decoding needs to be on with the K-Lite 64-bit codec pack installed, except for Quicktime files so far. I've updated the first post in that thread as well.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-29-2011 at 09:31 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 07:48 AM   #16
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

I've created two test projects to demonstrate the problem of this topic. You can download them here:

Reaper 4 - Frame Issue Project and Video Files.zip

Each project file comes with one video file counting frames from 0 to 24 (25 fps, accordingly set to 25fps in project properties), Time Display set to timecode, BPM set to 240 and grid line spacing set to 1/25.

Opening the project brings up the project notes containing information where to look for frames not correctly shown when going from left to right. Same when you click to a certain position, then, those frames will be skipped.

This happens in both, Reaper 4 x86 and Reaper 4 x64!

After that, install Reaper 3.77 (x86 or x64, doesn't matter) and open the same project files with Reaper 3.77 - you will hardly run into any issue! Everything is fine here!

That's all I can do to point to the problem. Hopefully this gets fixed soon!

Last edited by Reaktor:[Dave]; 07-30-2011 at 07:59 AM.
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 09:34 AM   #17
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default

Totally weird stuff.

Using Reaper 4.0 rc2 x86.

In "Reaper4_motion_jpeg_qHD.RPP" I have the grid and snap active and no matter what I do, I can't show frame 06 at 00:00:00:06.

Turn Snap off and you get it. Zooming in to the absolute maximum, Reaper switches video frames one pixel AFTER 00:00:00:06 .

Same for frame 12 at 00:00:00:12, 18 at 00:00:00:18, 21, 24, 4 at 00:00:01:04, and so on and so forth.

Same for the Photojpeg session. Every third frame starting with 00:00:00:03 is not shown on the grid position, even though the transport shows the right timecode.

MASSIVE consequences, as Reaper actually hides frames. MEGA BUG for anything post production related.

Scene and shot changes may be hidden. Frames to sync replacement dialogue to may be hidden. Whenever you need to operate on the frame grid now, you're essentially royally boned.

Workaround - don't use this buggy grid. Don't use this release for precision spotting.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-30-2011 at 09:42 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 11:14 AM   #18
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 10,197
Default

Woho, rc3 is supposed to have a fix for this.

Testing.

-edit-

And it works on both your test projects. Cool.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
(Video)Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom

Last edited by airon; 07-30-2011 at 11:22 AM.
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 12:19 PM   #19
Reaktor:[Dave]
Human being with feelings
 
Reaktor:[Dave]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Berlin
Posts: 448
Default

Wow, it works like a charm! Thank you, guys!
Reaktor:[Dave] is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.