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Old 08-27-2019, 11:22 AM   #1
_Stevie_
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Default A specialized wine edition for audio/vst

Hey all,

I just found a project called wine-lpa, which delivers a specialized wine edition for vsts and DAWs:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=155470

It really looked promissing and was gearing towards optimizing a LOT of things especially for vsts. The downside is: it seems dead.

Does anyone know what happened?
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Old 08-27-2019, 11:53 AM   #2
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The project page was last updated in 2015 so... yeah. I would assume it's long dead.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/l-proaudio/
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Old 08-27-2019, 02:21 PM   #3
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Yeah, on Github there was an update in 2016, so that's more recent.
But I can't even get it complied, since it's using some libs that Manjaro doesn't feature (anymore?). That's so sad, this project really looked promissing.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:22 PM   #4
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Maybe Justin might like to revive it and integrate it in Reaper/Linux

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Old 08-28-2019, 01:17 AM   #5
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Well, I wouldn’t be against it
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:05 AM   #6
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It looks like this guy did some really great work. Would be a shame to see it just die. Right now, it's not possible to load my windows template in Linux without shared memory in WINE. Every instance of a Kontakt plugin takes 200mb of memory in WINE. If you have 1000 tracks of Kontakt, that's 200GB of memory without ANY samples being loaded. And any duplicate samples are loaded into RAM separately as well.

The thing is, these improvements in Wine can be done. Just like the muse research guys got iLok working as well as several other tweaks. But it seems like there is just not enough people interested to make the WINE developers pay attention (apparently Muse Research offered their tweaks for inclusion in WINE but nothing happened).

It's a bit of a catch-22. Because having these improvements in WINE would bring over more windows users to Linux, which would in turn help spur development. In a perfect world, if Justin had the time to look at this and an integrated Windows VST bridge, I think a lot more users would jump ship. Unfortunately things like Kontakt are irreplaceable because the sample libraries can't run in anything else, especially the large orchestral ones.
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:21 PM   #7
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The latest version of Seaweed Audio's Fathom synthesizer
was a major update, but it continues to work well when
wrapped by LinVst. It's an example of a developer focussing
on solid code and improvements, rather than arcane
registration schemes, pointless download managers,
and intrusive data mining.

Seaweed is currently a one-man-shop, so producing a linux version
would slow developement of crucial planned capabilities,
like AVX integration, implementing gpu processing power,
and adding a robust sampling solution. Without much hope
of dramatically increased profits directly from linux version
sales.

If we as a group of musicians, fail to buy excellent usable
software tools, simply because wine and linvst are needed,
who loses? I say everybody loses.

Excluding new and excellent software from our toolset
secretly dampens creative potential, lowers the profitability
of brilliant career coders, and could stigmatize linux musicians
as isolationist technophobes, with a misplaced
superiority complex, rather than 'us' being
seen as a group of forward thinking creatives.

Have a great weekend, and consider to demo,
or test a free version of, something new and exciting.
Cheers
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:57 PM   #8
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Speaking of specialist, has anyone tried the
Crossover wine or demo in the last year,
and is it a hopeful option based on your experience?
Cheers
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Old 08-29-2019, 02:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
If we as a group of musicians, fail to buy excellent usable
software tools, simply because wine and linvst are needed,
who loses? I say everybody loses.
I don't plan to buy any more Windows VST/VSTi plugins, but my reasons are more about efficiency, which was why I sought out and bought a couple hundred bucks worth of new plugins that are native Linux. These were all audio plugins, which can be found.

As for instrument plugins, I still rely on Kontakt and a handful of other Windows VSTi plugins I already have, but whether I run Windows or Linux I have no plans to expand my virtual instruments.

That said, some developer could sure get some money out of me if they came up with a native Linux replacement for Kontakt with a similar stock library of high quality playable sounds.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:19 PM   #10
4duhwinnn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I don't plan to buy any more Windows VST/VSTi plugins, but my reasons are more about efficiency, which was why I sought out and bought a couple hundred bucks worth of new plugins that are native Linux. These were all audio plugins, which can be found.

As for instrument plugins, I still rely on Kontakt and a handful of other Windows VSTi plugins I already have, but whether I run Windows or Linux I have no plans to expand my virtual instruments.

That said, some developer could sure get some money out of me if they came up with a native Linux replacement for Kontakt with a similar stock library of high quality playable sounds.
Unless a product is fully cross-platform, there is no way
to compare efficiency. At best, with a U-he product, you could compare

linux Zebra in linux reaper
windows zebra in linux-wine running windows reaper
windows zebra wrapped by linvst in linux reaper
windows zebra in windows
sell your Toyota, buy a mac, and compare
mac zebra with all of the above.

But even then the reaper daws are unequal, and no accurate
frame of reference exists among linux systems
with myriad DE's, config genious, config blunders,
kernels of every size shape and color running
who-knows-what from start-up...sometimes have to decide
things on more than efficiency alone.

----------------------------------------------

I didn't plan on getting married, until a friend
introduced me to 'the one'...

I didn't plan on buying Hive until I heard it...

----------------------------------------------

Might be easier to code a Kontakt competitor, than to match
or beat it's library and 3rd-party products,
it seems the three together
will be kings of the hill for quite awhile.
Cheers
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Old 08-29-2019, 06:26 PM   #11
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What I meant is that using WINE and LinVST is less efficient than using a native Linux plugin that doesn't need these two extra layers.

I instantly saw better performance in REAPER for Linux as I replaced my Windows audio plugins with native Linux audio plugins.

Especially with projects where I have near 100 FX patched and every one of them was using LinVST and WINE. Now only a handful of the plugins I use are bridged and I'm seeing the kind of performance now in REAPER for Linux that I was used to seeing in REAPER for Windows. This is on a dual boot machine, so it's the exact same hardware with Windows as it is in Linux.
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:58 PM   #12
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Very cool results, and under challenging conditions!
The waters get deeper exponentially, once adding the fifth track...

I just did a quick unscientific ballpark comparison
of linux U-he instruments vs the windows versions in
wine-staging 4.14, Mint 18, low latency kernel 4.14,
and using the latest reapers,
using only qjackctl cpu readout, while playing
about with single notes of each instruments default patch,
and attempting 'ballpark accuracy',
as the cpu reading beebops a good deal. Linux % on left
wine/win % on the right:

ACE 9/10
Bazille 17/29
Diva 40/44
Hive2 25/23
Podolski 5/6
Repro-1 15/17
Repro-5 48/48 (used Bellina preset, not the default presets)
TyrellN6 13/17
Zebra2 6/8

Hive2 was the only one showing higher cpu use in linux,
and likely as it's a recent and huge update release,
Abique may not have had much time to tweak it's performance.
All in all, the linux ports are unscientifically
doing very well!
Cheers

Last edited by 4duhwinnn; 08-29-2019 at 08:05 PM. Reason: details
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Old 08-29-2019, 10:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
...and every one of them was using LinVST and WINE....
This of course is abysmal.

If Reaper/linux would feature an automatic Wine/LinVST bridge for windows plugins, this should be crafted in a way that a sequence of Windows plugins is handled in a single instance of bridge.
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