Replacement Organ for NI's B4? - Page 2

EvilDragon · 08-06-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombuur

How does VB3 compare to B4II cpu wise?
Can VB3 play with percussion active even when a key is already pressed (unlike the real thing)?

VB3 is extremely CPU optimised. For me it runs at 1% CPU on 2 GHz dualcore!

About percussion, I think that's not possible. In fact I never tried it. Will fill you in when I get back home.

jens · 08-06-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Pig

I tried em all and I think you'll find the VB3 is your only option if the B4 is cockahoop. I find the rest kinda meh.

personally I still prefer Lightbag II - epecially since - unlike VB3 - it can react smartly to velocity response...

jens · 08-06-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herniaface

check out the free vst organ on here http://krakli.com/krakli-free-synths/

i really rate it for some organ sounds, whether it can do a b4 - i dont know - but for free its worth a look...

Morphiza is great for odd transistor type organs...

Cableaddict · 08-07-2010, 02:02 AM

For the record,

I re-installed B4 last night, in desperation as I had a gig tonight & tomorrow.

I installed it in a diferent way, hoping that might solve the problem. Nope. It behaved for maybe ten hours, then Ka-BOOM. Full code output.

Sad. It served me well for many years. Fricking NI .........

technogremlin · 08-07-2010, 02:39 AM

As for free stuff, I found that NubiLE by default recognizes a drawbar midi controller. My UF5 keyboard has drawbar mode build in (seems a rare feature btw) and it works flawlessly and without any setting up of controller parameters. I have not seen another free organ that has this feature. Maybe this is important for you.

Besides, I use NubiLE together with NubiVFX (for tube distortion) and Nubi SpinnerPlus which is a very good Leslie emu. I use NubiLE instead of NubiPlus because I like the single manual setup of NubiLE. If you need dual manual and pedals then you want NubiPlus. They sound exactly the same. The download is floating somewhere on the web, it's officially freeware now. The download of NubiPlus includes VFX and Spinner Plus.

If you can't find it I can dig up a download link for you (actually still have to do that and add the link to my freeware topic).

technogremlin · 08-07-2010, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jens

Morphiza is great for odd transistor type organs...

Agreed, I have it also and like it a lot. The new free combo-organ that is being discussed somewhere on the forum (and on KVR as well) seem pretty nice for those sounds as well

EvilDragon · 08-07-2010, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jens

personally I still prefer Lightbag II - epecially since - unlike VB3 - it can react smartly to velocity response...

VB3 uses velocity in a bit different way - all in favor of emulating the original Hammond. It randomized the key click delay time, which wasn't really constant on the real thing.

Velocity on organs, lol.

Cableaddict · 08-07-2010, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Velocity on organs, lol.

Kids today ...... (g)

Then again, I do enjoy sustain-pedal & full 88-key support, so what the heck.

EvilDragon · 08-07-2010, 06:07 AM

Yeah, sustain on the other hand is useful.

Except I kinda use sustain pedal to switch Leslie speed. I'm trying to stay true to the real thing

carbon · 08-08-2010, 05:19 AM

This isn't Rhodes, but how does it sound to you experts?
http://www.mokafix.com/en/blue-reeds.html

EvilDragon · 08-08-2010, 05:39 AM

Mokafix VSTs are of brimming quality! Although I am particular of Pianoteq's Wurlitzer, myself.

technogremlin · 08-08-2010, 08:05 AM

I promised to dig up a download for NubiPlus, so here it is. It's the full package including Spinner and VFX (overdrive).

http://rapidshare.com/files/12943216...w-freeware.rar

Have fun

lowellben · 08-08-2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cableaddict

I've recently been having horrible problems with Reaper, Win7-64, and the B4 organ.

Ughh. The B4 is the heart & soul of my live-performance rig.

I tried the GSI VB3, and Linplug's Organ3. They aren't even close.

Anything out there that sounds as good as the B4 did?

Honestly, nothing compares imo. The B4 is outstanding. I am using it in Reaper 32 bit now, flawlessly....

I hope you can figure a way out to use it - it's really the best out there for what it does.

Ben

EvilDragon · 08-08-2010, 08:29 AM

...except VB3 eats B4 for breakfast

lowellben · 08-08-2010, 08:31 AM

Them be fightin' words!

Naw, I don't care much for the GSi stuff, except maybe the MrRay...

But to each their own!

Ben

EvilDragon · 08-08-2010, 08:32 AM

Oddly, I find VB3 a much better emulation of the respective instrument than Mr. Ray (while Mr. Ray still being great, VB3 is the bee's knees). B4 has nothing on it, especially with that horrendous Leslie sim.

lowellben · 08-08-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Oddly, I find VB3 a much better emulation of the respective instrument than Mr. Ray (while Mr. Ray still being great, VB3 is the bee's knees).

I use the AAS Lizard exclusively, but I've heard a buddy of mine jam away on the Ray - good stuff, man....

Either way, whatever tools work - is the tool you should always use!

Ben

EvilDragon · 08-08-2010, 08:34 AM

Naturally. Having the best tool is always a great thing

(I'm using Pianoteq with addons for EPs, myself.)

lowellben · 08-08-2010, 08:49 AM

I love PianoTeq....the new v3 is just outstanding....

Cableaddict · 08-20-2010, 07:27 AM

Well, I got the newest VB3, and enabled the high foldback.

Feh. This is worthless to me. I just HAVE to have the correct notes in the top 2 octaves. I can't play blaring rock solos without it.

Ughhh. This is terrible .......

roygbiv · 08-20-2010, 10:11 AM

Hi CableAddict

You might try emailing the guy who codes VB3 and ask if it is possible to do what you want to do (or if it could be included in a future version). His name is Guido,, hence the "G" in GSi.

I recently did asking a question about the difference between the Organ sound/generator in Key Performer vs. VB3.

He responded the next day! Not bad service for a one-man operation. I was impressed.

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=contactus

lowellben · 08-20-2010, 09:30 PM

Perhaps the Hammond RT3 found in Reason's Abbey Road Keyboards would work?

Not a bad sound....nice collection actually, imo.

Ben

tombuur · 08-20-2010, 11:17 PM

I did some auditioning of what I have and tried the VB3 demo too.

The VB3 has a soft natural sound and fits well into a backing mix. It has the best sounding drive. Still the B4 II has more character, sounds more forward in the mix, and would maybe do the best job where an organ is promininent in the mix. The sampled 57 Drawbar Organ from Kore soundpacks is a little more natural than the B4II, but also has some of that forward character. Not as flexible as the B4, though. The USB Retro Organs are very realistic too, but the least flexible of them all, limiting you to a fixed number of drawbar settings.

Just my humble opinion ...

But if you want to test the VB3, just go ahead. You only need to put the VB3 dll in your vst folder. Afterwards you can remove it with no traces left in your system.

Admiral Quality · 01-01-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombuur

Very interesting thread for someone like me who doesn't play a Hammond, but just love it's sound as part of rock music. Particularly considering that some you seem to have lots of experience with the real thing.

How does VB3 compare to B4II cpu wise?
Can VB3 play with percussion active even when a key is already pressed (unlike the real thing)?

Yeah, I know the demo could answer this, but I hate installing/uninstalling demos. For this price I would just buy this plugin if your answers are positive.

I already have B4II, NI's Drawbar Organ and USB's Retro Organ. The latter two are sampled, but sound very good to me. Retro Organs, however, are somewhat limited, you get a number of fixed samples like 888800080 etc. The NI take on this is based on individual drawbars and a mixer in Kontakt that allows you to mix these as you would pulling drawbars.

I own VB3 and I think, as far as the organ sim, it beats NI's B4 and B4II hands down. It doesn't have the errors in tonewheel tuning that are obvious in the NI products.

Amp sim and Leslie sim leave a bit to be desired though, the B4 and B4II's amp and Leslie sound a bit more convincing to me. Probably the best thing would be VB3's dry organ tone run through B4IIfx!

And no, neither VB3 or B4 or B4 II let you have polyphonically triggered percussion (it IS polyphonic, but it's mono-triggered and doesn't retrigger until you release all keys on the top manual -- you're free to hold chords on the lower manual and pedals without inhibiting the percussion however). That's the whole point, to emulate the behavior of the original Hammonds. (If you want fake organ sound with poly-triggered percussion, use a sampler. It will also do abominable things to your tonewheel tuning that don't happen on the real thing.)

EvilDragon · 01-01-2012, 03:34 PM

IMHO - VB3's overdrive sounds a lot meatier and fuller than NI's "rice krispies" overdrive in B4-II...

Admiral Quality · 01-01-2012, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

IMHO - VB3's overdrive sounds a lot meatier and fuller than NI's "rice krispies" overdrive in B4-II...

I definitely know what you mean about the Rice Krispies in B4-II. I just find the VB3 amp sim to be a bit too clippy sounding at the meaty end. A softer breakup would be nice in both products. Real Leslies growl, but yeah, they don't really snap, crackle or pop.

All in all I still far prefer VB3. Here's me having some fun with it:

http://www.admiralquality.com/music/...ngVB3Organ.mp3

EvilDragon · 01-01-2012, 04:25 PM

Nice playing, AQ!

Admiral Quality · 01-01-2012, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Nice playing, AQ!

Thanks!

I cheated a bit on Green Onions and did the lead on a separate overdub. Not coordinated enough to play the lead and bassline at the same time. But the riff and bassline are all played together, as they should be.

Wish I still had my (modern, digital) Korg CX-3, so I could have proper Hammond controls in roughly the right size and positions. The drawbars are all sadly static on those two little tests.

I had a Leslie 145 for a while too. That made the CX-3 sound perfect, I imagine it would do the same for VB3. But B4 or B4-II will never sound convincing as they have tonewheels beating against each other that shouldn't. Try playing two notes from a single drawbar, up in the top octave, so they're 1 octave apart. You'll hear beating. A real tonewheel generator has all the tonewheels locked in a constant, static phase relationship with each other. It's all a big gear-train driven by a single motor, so all the octaves are exact 2:1 ratios... you can't have a fractional gear tooth, so the tuning of a lot of tonewheels is a little off to compensate for the necessary integer math. This was the genius of Hammond's design. It makes a very tight sound, even when playing massive chords or even laying your arm across the keys. That tightness makes it sound great when "fluffed up" through a Leslie. Samplers, etc, ignore this tuning, so you have extra harmonics all over the place, muddying up the sound and making it sound horribly thick when the Leslie is applied.http://www.electricdruid.net/index.p...d#calculations )

d. gauss · 01-02-2012, 07:47 AM

these two sound great together:

hammond sk1
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SK1

neo ventilator
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...FQjd4AodV3fkmg

bluzkat · 01-02-2012, 08:17 AM

That "Ventilator" is pretty cool.

I use one of these: Boss RE-20 Rotary Ensemble...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNpir...eature=related.

I love this thing!!

gibi25 · 01-02-2012, 11:05 AM

A link to nubiplus (and some other):
http://lesitedeburnie.free.fr/lalistedeburnie6.html

Admiral Quality · 01-03-2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gibi25

A link to nubiplus (and some other):
http://lesitedeburnie.free.fr/lalistedeburnie6.html

Oh nice. I thought they were gone.

I need to try VB3 through nubi's Spinner!

Artbay · 01-03-2012, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

Oddly, I find VB3 a much better emulation of the respective instrument than Mr. Ray (while Mr. Ray still being great, VB3 is the bee's knees). B4 has nothing on it, especially with that horrendous Leslie sim.

well, i've been in denial that b4 is disappearing, but it's good to know there may be alternatives...

bullshark · 01-03-2012, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artbay

well, i've been in denial that b4 is disappearing, but it's good to know there may be alternatives...

I own VB3 and love it, use it bridged(it's the only x86 only plug I use) but, at the risk of sounding pessimistic, the last update was in June of 2010 and no 64 bit on the horizon... doesn't bide well for Hammond lovers.

Superfly76 · 12-26-2013, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullshark

I own VB3 and love it, use it bridged(it's the only x86 only plug I use) but, at the risk of sounding pessimistic, the last update was in June of 2010 and no 64 bit on the horizon... doesn't bide well for Hammond lovers.

I own and love VB3 too. It's working fine here bridged on both Win 7 and 8.1 in reaper x64.

I saw on their site today that they will be releasing x64 versions of VB3 and a few others. Apparently there's some compatibility problems with Maverics on Mac.

Quote:

From our own part, we can say that we are currently working on 64 bits updates of the most wanted GSi plugins (VB3, MrRay73mk2 and GS-201), others will follow. Unfortunately this is a very slow process and will take some time. So, please, don't update your Mac yet and if you're planning to buy a GSi license, please test the free demo version before you buy.

XITE-1/4LIVE · 12-26-2013, 05:08 AM

Coming from a signed group where the gear was leased and all encased meaning a crew was necessary, I was heartbroken when the band was not resigned, and I was forced in the late 90s to try and find a Hammond sound.
They didn't exist. Then came the weak Native stuff with zippery drawbars and a Dynachord Leslie emu, again a saddening experience.
Then the expensive DSP cards using a PhysMod, which was good but required a real Leslie, which meant for an unsigned artist a Motion Sound Pro 3. That was as good as it got, and as I tried more free and cheap Native stuff since it was never a 100% enulation it just got worse.

But the good news is that the Scope project cards used are a very good deal and are still supported at the German manufacturer and can be had for a few hundred bucks on ebay. One of these will get you realtime parameter modulation, Great ARP Odyssey and MiniMoog D emulations and the Hammond B3.

You will need a Neo Ventillator though as it is also a dedicated audio chip (pedal) that makes the PhysMod pretty damn close. Also the PhysMod allows you to get tons of the free plug ins that use to cost hundreds that allow you to program the drawbars x 8 (1" footage becomes percussion hence 8 instead of 9 drawbars) each with seperate lag processors, so simply stopming on an exp pedal send to drawbars to their targetted footage. Pulling the exp back brings it back at the same precise targets whish where you originally started.

This allows one to get the Emerson Tarkus sound, Green Eyed Lady, Booker T, Jon Lord ( marshall head w/ ring modulator) and all various B3 styles and sounds.

So when one becomes tired of the mediocre Native stuff, the best way to get a Rhodes, Wurlitzer and Hammond B3 is a Scope DSP Card w/ a Neo Ventillator, Pianoteqs PhysMod Wurlitzer, as you can also tweak that from Supertramp to Steely Dan, and Neo Souls Rhodes. PianoTeqs Rhodes will suffice a little bit, but on rare occasions, a sampler is better suited for emulating electro mechanical instruments of yore.

If you are sick like me, get a Leslie Studio 12 as that really is the finsihing touch, and after 12 years of torture trying weakness from NI and other free stuff, the costs saved me from sounding like a wimp next to ampegs, Marshalls and Ludwig kits played by fellow performers.

But if you are just making commercial ads at home on a PC, where the Guitars use amp sims, and the drums are Slate or SD2, it'll work for a laptop group doing one nighters and weddings.

But you can always break down and get a used Scope Card. You'll find that Klaus Piehls work is still the pinnacle of programming, as even Tangerine Dream still uses their stuff live. Realtime parameter modulation is 50% of the styles from that era, so glitchy realtime filter sweeps and rice crispy distortion, zippery drawbars are non existant. But yes, it's old and used tech. Amazing that we have such powerful CPUs and most folks worry about running 100 plugs ins rather than 10 that sound really good.

Don't be afraid to incorporate real hardware along with DSP and Native stuff.
The hardware makes the DSP and Native stuff sound more authentic, unless you want an all hardware rig. The only hardware I will carry is a real analog synths, a Leslie Studio 12 and QSC K12 speakers.
My hypocracy only goes so far.