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03-06-2011, 07:23 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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REAPER crashing repeatedly...
Hey There
I have just updated to v3.75, and have purchased a license key. I am using Reaper with Toontrack's Superior Drummer 2.0, and am running it through Windows 7 64 bit, 16G of RAM, 3.10ghz processor. My soundcard is an M-Audio Delta 192 at 64 bit also. I have been working on a few projects (with the new version and key), and have had nothing but great results. Tonight, I fired everything up, and REAPER crashes every time. The audio will become 'static-y' and slow down until it stops, then a message from Windows appears stating that there was a problem with REAPER and it had to shut down. I tried creating something else with the same settings, and have the same problem. I didn't change anything since the last time I was using it, and it was fine then. I'm assuming that the first step would be to uninstall REAPER and re-install it, but I figured I'd ask here first. Thanks in advance for any help!
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03-06-2011, 07:42 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Sorry to hear this the good news is if you post the bug reports here it should be very easy for a Developer (Justin or Schwa) to see what 's wrong and either fix it their end or suggest how to fix it your end.
It has to be said nearly all reaper crashes are caused by faulty plugins. Next time you get a crash show the details and then copy and paste them here.
that should get the ball rolling
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03-06-2011, 07:44 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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03-06-2011, 07:58 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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Sorry, should have added this: Reaper will hang up with any and all projects I try to load, even those which I have not added any plugs to yet. Also, the audio will be 'degraded' even when just sampling MIDI... and I initially noticed this when I was scrolling down the page, I could detect a ton of 'pops' and static when doing this. Also, I am not connected to the internet, and the anti-virus is turned off. I will try some of the suggestions provided above...
Thanks again guys!
Last edited by Leevious; 03-06-2011 at 08:36 PM.
Reason: add comment
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03-06-2011, 08:22 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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your cpu might be in a power saving mode. the stuff in that thread i linked to about EIST and C1E is relevant here - make sure both of those are turned off.
alternatively, it's worth making sure that there definitely aren't any plugins on your projects, in the 'project open' dialog there's a 'open with plugins disabled' checkbox, make sure that's checked.
the other possibility is a sample rate mismatch, or your playrate slider is not set at '1'. are there little 'i' icons on all your items? if so, reaper is trying to resample everything in realtime which can get ugly.
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03-06-2011, 08:48 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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thanks again... just tried opening without plugins as advised, didn't make a difference. Going to keep plugging away at this... can't understand why things went to hell, when I haven't changed anything since last time I was playing with it???
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03-06-2011, 09:20 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 315
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Is this happening even on songs without Superior? Is your computer you're recording with hooked up to the internet? Was it online when you registered the program? I use EZDrummer and recently discovered that if you typed in your authorization code while online, you must have the internet running in the background while running the program later.
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03-06-2011, 09:51 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leevious
thanks again... just tried opening without plugins as advised, didn't make a difference. Going to keep plugging away at this... can't understand why things went to hell, when I haven't changed anything since last time I was playing with it???
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maybe post a screenshot. make sure the stuff in the top-right hand corner of the screen is visible, along with the transport bar.
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03-07-2011, 03:50 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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I'll try that...
I just set my buffers a little higher (from 128 to 256) and that seems to have fixed it, but I haven't really played around with it yet.
I'm running at 192000 sample rate, and have my buffers set (both in my soundcard and in REAPER) to 256 now (but again, they were at 128) - this about right? Computer specs are Windows 7 64bit, 16G of ram, single hard drive, 3.10ghz processor... is there a rule as to what they should be set at or is it just trial and error?
Thanks again!
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03-07-2011, 04:01 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,696
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do you have trouble at lower sample rates?.. im not an audio engineer by any means, but I think higher sample rates can affect some plugins.. and might tax your CPU.
check this thread out:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...ht=sample+rate
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03-07-2011, 04:24 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leevious
I'll try that...
I just set my buffers a little higher (from 128 to 256) and that seems to have fixed it, but I haven't really played around with it yet.
I'm running at 192000 sample rate, and have my buffers set (both in my soundcard and in REAPER) to 256 now (but again, they were at 128) - this about right? Computer specs are Windows 7 64bit, 16G of ram, single hard drive, 3.10ghz processor... is there a rule as to what they should be set at or is it just trial and error?
Thanks again!
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Yikes! I don't know anyone who's brave enough to do 192k!!!! Especially with the buffer that low! If you are going to run that high, then try like 1024 buffer.....in theory you'd still get amazingly low latency.
What I'd recommend, is going with 96k or even 88.2k and then playing around with the buffer sizes to see what works. Then again there are still ol' farts like me who gave up on the fancy SR's and just do 44.1
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03-07-2011, 04:31 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leevious
I'll try that...
I just set my buffers a little higher (from 128 to 256) and that seems to have fixed it, but I haven't really played around with it yet.
I'm running at 192000 sample rate, and have my buffers set (both in my soundcard and in REAPER) to 256 now (but again, they were at 128) - this about right? Computer specs are Windows 7 64bit, 16G of ram, single hard drive, 3.10ghz processor... is there a rule as to what they should be set at or is it just trial and error?
Thanks again!
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at 192000, i'd suggest that you probably want to run at *512*. actually, i'd suggest you probably want to run at a maximum of 96kHz - there really are no serious gains for working at higher than that, and a lot of converter clocks start performing suboptimally above 96kHz.
edit: also, reaper is going to be going crazy upsampling everything to whatever your session rate is, and that KILLS performance. make sure your session items are recorded at the session rate, or glue them once you import them to do the upsampling offline.
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03-07-2011, 04:35 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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Thanks for the quick and informative reply. Again, you'll have to excuse my ignorance here - what do you mean by 'glue'?
Also, everything was running smoothly before all of this happened - I've been using these settings since about December without issue. I was under the impression that it was better to start with the highest possible sample rate, as you have a 'bigger canvas' to catch all the instruments (if that makes any sense). I've been told that you can't really pick up the differences between 96k and 192k, but if the computer can handle it, it can't hurt.
Thanks again!
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03-07-2011, 07:20 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leevious
Thanks for the quick and informative reply. Again, you'll have to excuse my ignorance here - what do you mean by 'glue'?
Also, everything was running smoothly before all of this happened - I've been using these settings since about December without issue. I was under the impression that it was better to start with the highest possible sample rate, as you have a 'bigger canvas' to catch all the instruments (if that makes any sense). I've been told that you can't really pick up the differences between 96k and 192k, but if the computer can handle it, it can't hurt.
Thanks again!
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but: most computers can't handle it, even really new ones. 192k is CRAZY high. even 96k is probably overkill, but at least there are decent arguments for using it in some cases.
if you glue stuff in reaper, it does the following:
* new wave file gets created (at the correct sample rate, with SRC applied if required)
* items on the same track get 'glued' together
* consolidates selected takes
hit ? to bring up commands - it's in there, i have it bound to 'keypad 0' because it's so useful.
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03-07-2011, 10:10 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
but: most computers can't handle it, even really new ones. 192k is CRAZY high. even 96k is probably overkill, but at least there are decent arguments for using it in some cases.
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exactamundo.
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03-07-2011, 11:04 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 65
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I agree the sample rate is unnecessarily high, but it seems to me the important thing to note here is that these same settings were working fine until just recently...
So I would ask... what on your system changed recently? Do you have Automatic Updates on? In any case, have you tried to roll it back to a previous state, using System Restore (or similar)?
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03-07-2011, 11:37 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 3,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonD
I agree the sample rate is unnecessarily high, but it seems to me the important thing to note here is that these same settings were working fine until just recently...
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With a sample rate of 192kHz and a buffer size of 128, it would take hardly anything to push that over the edge into failure. The sort of thing that could cause that might include stuff like... well, things like files being written to the outside of the disk instead of the inside. The timing requirements are just horrendous. With those settings, Reaper has to fill every buffer in something like 600usec, and that's with other stuff going on in the computer at the same time.
To put that in perspective, typical hard drive seek times are 15000usec.
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03-08-2011, 12:18 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,031
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Again, working in a daw music/tracks environment...192 is not practical. Maybe on hot machines with much higher buffer settings.
Example: @44.1 and the buffer at 128 I work very comfortably. However If I was to suddenly increase my SR to 96k, I'd lose certain aspects of stability. Since sample rate and latency are bound, it would make sense to increase the buffer to at least 256, and probably even higher like 512. When at 192 I think you have to go even higher (like 1024) and that still might be iffy.
I honestly don't know the latency/buffer/SR conversion but even with the OP's rather healthy machine it's allot to ask.
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03-08-2011, 07:03 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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Thanks a bunch guys for the informative replies. In response, nothing has changed on or in my computer that I am aware of - it is not connected to the internet, no automatic updates, nothing new has been installed since the last time. I had this computer built at the end of December specifically for audio recording - there is nothing on there that shouldn't be-games or other software. I have kept the sample rate at 192, but moved my buffers up to 512, which seems to work fine - again, weird that it was running fine at 128.
As an aside, I had an issue with REAPER last night when I restarted my computer. It stated that REAPER could not (and I hope I remembered this properly, should have written it down) initialize or 'configure audio device properties', and 'would I like to do it now'? The Reaper Preferences tab popped up, and the Audio Device Settings page appeared. In the 'Enable Inputs' and 'Output Range' boxes (where my soundcard Delta AP192 usually shows) was nothing, and nothing appeared in the drop down boxes. When trying to play the song, there was no audio, and in the top right corner of the screen I believe it stated 'no audio device found' or something to that effect. Again, poor on my part for not writing down what it said exactly. If this happens again, I will be sure to do so. Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, it was 'fixed' once I restarted it again.
I wish I knew more about the ins and outs of recording, just gotta keep learning... thanks again!
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03-08-2011, 07:51 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 74
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Hmm... well now it's starting to sound like it could be a hardware problem with your soundcard. Maybe the card itself is starting to go, or maybe it's just not seated/connected properly.
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03-08-2011, 08:16 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
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Leevious,
Have you tried going back to 3.74, or whatever version you were using before you upgraded to 3.75?
Tom
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03-08-2011, 09:08 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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no, I haven't tried that.
I updated to 3.75 from .74 pretty much when the update was posted, and it worked properly after the update was installed. Think this may be the cause? I think I still have the .74 installer on a flash drive somewhere...
As for the soundcard, the latest driver is installed (there is only one 64 bit driver for Windows 7), it appears to be seated properly. All of the exterior connections off the card are secure as well. Any way of checking for errors that you may know of?
Thanks again!
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03-08-2011, 09:21 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 105
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I might be off-track, but the way I read it, you didn't have this problem until you installed 3.75, so rolling back to the last version you used might help you troubleshoot. If you don't have the installer, you can find all the older version from a link on the REAPER download page.
The other thing I might do is rename your reaper.ini file (to something like reaper_old.ini) and see if it runs okay with a fresh ini file. Otherwise, have you made any other changes (eg: when did you update the soundcard driver?) in this span of time?
Tom
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03-08-2011, 09:24 AM
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#24
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Super Moderator (no feelings)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: On or near a dike
Posts: 9,834
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You might have clicked 'OK' on the question whether or not you want to open the audio device preferences page after REAPER found that it could not communicate with your audio interface (that was the expanded content of the error message). Then it opens that page and resets it to the first driver it can find.
That means you just need to set up your interface again in Preferences->Audio->Device. If you can't, your device or its driver are probably not running properly now for some reason. Turn off the the computer and the devices and try again.
[Ollie gets + 80 Roy-points for the last sentence. ]
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03-08-2011, 09:15 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 33
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Hey Again
My mistake, the soundcard driver wasn't 'updated' so much as it was 'installed' - should have clarified that, sorry.
The Reaper .ini file - what does this do? Also, I'll try installing the .74 version when I get home from work.
When I tried to set my interface back up, nothing would appear in the drop down boxes where my Delta192 usually shows up. When I restarted the box, everything was back up and running. Could be the soundcard on it's way out...
Thanks again!
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