How can I set up my Korg NanoKontrol 2 to record CC automation.

[MadLad]

Hey,

I'm in the process of building myself a home studio for orchestral VST music to further my foothold in the video game and film music business. To start out, I bought the Spitfire BBCSO which is controlled by velocity (for the staccati, pizz, etc) and the CC lanes 1 and 11 (for the sustain, legato, etc.)

I've not yet decided which midi keyboard I'm getting but I have the Korg NanoKontrol 2 which I bought many years ago. I want to set it up so the first two faders record CC1 and CC11. I was able to assign them with the Korg Kontrol Editor, at least. They work fine in Dorico 4.

Basically, I want to have this setup:
1. while recording and playing with the right hand, for example a legato strings line, I want to control CC1 and CC11 with the left hand simultaneously.

2. As an alternative, sometimes I just want to play the part with both hands and replay it in Reaper and then just record the CC automation.

Like in this video, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vxj4ghJHtY&t=554s

I tried to set this up but it doesn't work. I can get the NanoKontrol 2 to control the faders of my tracks in Reaper with Mackie Control Universal but then it ignores the CC1 and CC11 faders I assigned in the Korg Kontrol Editor.

I also tried the Mackie Control Klinke but it doesn't work, either. I set up everything correctly, all the files are in the correct place but it doesn't show up in Reaper preferences control/osc/web.

This process will be crucial for my music production. So can anyone tell me how I can set this up, so that it works like in the video? I really need to get this to work.

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: It doesn't necessarily have to be restricted to the Korg NanoKontrol 2. If you could explain to me how you set this up in general, I'd be very thankful (I consider getting the Arturia Keylabs MK2 88 which has all sorts of knobs, faders, wheels and percussion pads built in. If I knew how to set them up the way I described above, that would be great)!

[ashcat_lt]

Set up the NanoKontrol for input NOT control. Set up a track to record that input with monitoring on. Send that track to your VSTi. If you really want those CCs on the same track as the keyboard MIDI, then you can set up the Nano track to record:none (monitor only) and the other track to record: output MIDI.

[MadLad]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

Set up the NanoKontrol for input NOT control. Set up a track to record that input with monitoring on. Send that track to your VSTi. If you really want those CCs on the same track as the keyboard MIDI, then you can set up the Nano track to record:none (monitor only) and the other track to record: output MIDI.

Thank you for the answer.

So does that mean I always need two tracks to record both? Because this can get messy if I have 20 instruments loaded and need another 20 tracks just to record the CC data.

Is there no way to do everything in one track? I mean, right now, when I open the midi editor, I can see the piano roll and have both CC1 and CC11 below which I used to edit with mouse and keyboard. But now, I want to edit it with the faders with the 2 methods I described in the first post.

Also: I don't know much about the technical terms since I used Reaper only to mix before. How do you set up the NanoKontrol just for input and not control and what does monitoring mean? I think I know how to send tracks to other tracks since I did that with my reverb.

[ashcat_lt]

In Preferences where you set up the MIDI device, enable it for input and not control. It must be enabled for control right now. Change that.

You only need one extra track for the Nano input. Send that to whatever track you want to record on at the moment, and record that track's output. Record:None and Record: Output are both in the context menu when your right click a track's record arm button.

For the case where you're trying to record the keyboard separate from the NanoKontrol, I think you can use the MIDI overdub mode (right click the transport record button to find that) and just change the input on the one track, but I haven't messed with that too much.

[MadLad]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

You only need one extra track for the Nano input. Send that to whatever track you want to record on at the moment, and record that track's output. Record:None and Record: Output are both in the context menu when your right click a track's record arm button.

I think I understand now. Basically like a dummy track that copies the midi data to whatever track I send it to. Ok, that's sounds much more efficient.

I'm gonna try all of this out tomorrow. Thank you.

[bigtop]

I think you can record a two handed passage into your track then you can use automation to write your expression into the track either by drawing it in or by recording it in whilst moving your keyboard continuous controllers. Kenny Gioia has a video on this and explains it very well

[MadLad]

Originally Posted by bigtop

I think you can record a two handed passage into your track then you can use automation to write your expression into the track either by drawing it in or by recording it in whilst moving your keyboard continuous controllers. Kenny Gioia has a video on this and explains it very well

Do you have a link to this video?

[bigtop]

https://www.reaper.fm/videos.php#PyRpS_BTlzE

[MadLad]

Thanks!

[jeffb99]

I hate to be the sourpuss on this but I had the exact same set of problems with my NK2 and Reaper. Being a total MIDI newbie, I found the Korg software and Reaper setup work-arounds very difficult to understand and master. I watched Kenny's video and others more than once!! I finally gave up. I sold my NK2 and bought the Monogram CC controllers. The units were very well built and more importantly for me...the software was VERY easy to use. Simple plug-and-play setup, intuitive, and adaptable to just about anything!

I hope you have better success than I did!!

--Jeff

[MadLad]

Originally Posted by jeffb99

I hate to be the sourpuss on this but I had the exact same set of problems with my NK2 and Reaper. Being a total MIDI newbie, I found the Korg software and Reaper setup work-arounds very difficult to understand and master. I watched Kenny's video and others more than once!! I finally gave up. I sold my NK2 and bought the Monogram CC controllers. The units were very well built and more importantly for me...the software was VERY easy to use. Simple plug-and-play setup, intuitive, and adaptable to just about anything!

I hope you have better success than I did!!

--Jeff

Tbh. I'm also considering just getting a masterkeyboard with enough controllers like the Arturia Keylab 88 MkII or the M-Audio 88 Pro at this point. I'll check out the Monogram CC controllers, though. Thanks

[bigtop]

Sorry to hear you’re finding the MIDI CC stuff rather difficult. All MIDI controllers are basically the same. If you perservere then little by little you will get the hang of assigning knobs sliders pads etc to whatever source you choose. MIDI learn is not difficult of itself but sometimes you cannot rely on programs that are supposed to map controller functions to this or that source DAW VSTi etc.

If you ditch your nano Kontrol for a MIDI keyboard with knobs and sliders etc then you will need to map the MIDI controllers again. Perseverance is the key. If you can get one slider or one knob to do one thing then you can get any slider or any knob to do anything.

Good luck.

[ashcat_lt]

K so there are a few different ways that a MIDI controller can interact with things in Reaper, and which one you use kind of depends on what that thing you want to interact with is and how it works.

From the OP, I made the assumption that it was what I consider to be the most basic of them: The VSTi accepts CCs like any MIDI instrument might and does with it whatever it does. Whether that is hard coded so that CCX does A and CCY does B or the plugin has its own built in "Learn" or assignment system that lets you define it, it's basically the same. It is looking for those CCs to come in as actual track MIDI the same way the notes that make it play noises are coming in. This requires the controller to be set up in Preferences as a regular input, and then set as the input to a track just like you'd have a keyboard set up. Tracks can only have one MIDI input at a time, though, so if you want the keyboard AND the controller working at the same time, you need at least two tracks. I find this most basic because it is the most like actual hardware. You send the input of the synth the CCs right along with the notes, and it does the thing. You can record it, manipulate it, route it around, and mix it together just like any other MIDI data because that's what it is, and then the synth itself decides what to do with those events.

There is another way to control things in plugins with that track MIDI data. If the plugin doesn't have its own mappings for CCs, or you want to control some parameter that it won't let you map to from inside its own GUI, you can use Parameter Modulation/MIDI Link. Link, not Learn. For things like plugins, I actually prefer this method because it is still discrete to the track and can still be routed around, recorded, manipulated, affected by other plugins, and still if you really want to can be written as automation. On top of that, the mappings you set up via PM/Link are saved with FX presets and FX chains. But I think the most important part for me is that it is just track MIDI, discrete and self-contained in the tracks where it is recorded or sent to or whatever. It can't accidentally affect some other track or set off actions or anything. It only goes where I tell it to.

Then there's the Control Path, which is this whole other thing. This is when you have it enabled for control in Preferences. This Control path is global and completely separate from any track MIDI. It can not be recorded to a track or routed around or affected by plugins without some extra messing around.

This is what you need to control Actions, like the ones for adjusting Volume, Pan, etc for the track itself (as opposed to controlling the VSTi), as well as like transport controls and things.

You can also use this Control Path midi to control plugin parameters using Reaper's MIDI Learn functionality, but this is actually not as flexible as Link, and much worse it is not that discrete, contained track MIDI that goes where it route it. It can and will control any number of things all over the project, and it is not always easy to see everything that a given CC might be connected to. When I first hooked up my NanoKontrol, I had great fun trying to control pan of a track and having it also scrub the playhead around the timeline! I literally never use Learn because Link is just better for all of the reasons I've mentioned above.

I think most of your frustration here is that you're trying to use the one controller for two things that really should be separate. You want to control the mixer/transport, which is completely understandable. You also want to send CCs to a synth which expects to see that as track MIDI so it can do whatever it does with them. The only way to really do that well is to go into Preferences and switch back and forth between input and control depending on which function you want at the time. There are couple of different ways to "translate" track MIDI to Control Path MIDI and vice versa, but I don't generally find them to be worth the trouble.

I personally have two NanoKontrols. One is enabled for control only, so I can do volume rides on tracks and stuff like that, and the other is enabled for input only, so that I can route it around and use MIDI Link to control plugins. They're cheap. Buy another one.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion, but definitely ask questions if you've got them, and I'll try to clarify further.

[MadLad]

Thanks for the reply. To clarify, I actually just want to use it to record the two midi lanes CC1 and CC11 and maybe a third fader for vibrato. Everything else I can do with the mouse. I don't need my nanokontrol for that.

On top of that, I think I'll get a masterkeyboard with faders, knobs etc. so I've got two sets of faders, if I ever decide to use one of them to control track volume, panning, etc.

I'll keep on trying but first I'll need to concentrate on getting all the hardware, my new PC, etc. I just wanted to try it out with my old laptop beforehand, so when I finally have my new PC and keyboard, I can set everything up more easily.

[ashcat_lt]

Yeah I think what I'm saying is that it's really just easiest to have a different device for each of the two tasks. It's not worth the hassle to have one controller trying to do track midi and control path midi at the same time. It's conceivable that there is a keyboard controller out there that can look to Reaper like 2 or more devices. In fact I know that there at least used to be things that could do that. But you'd have to really do some research to find them.