Old 05-21-2017, 11:17 AM   #1
mykrobinson
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Default ELI5: Automation Items

Would one of you kindly explain to me like i'm five, what are "automation items" and what benefit does this feature bring versus the previous method, which i guess was envelopes and lanes?
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:18 AM   #2
EvilDragon
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AIs are containers for envelope data, which you can loop and stretch and pool like regular items.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:42 PM   #3
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It makes moving/copying/pasting automation data easier.
But it has issues too, if you dont need them, dont use them.
As an example, Copying/pooling to have automation sent to multiple locations is horrible.
While the copying/pooling is a great great idea, using it as a way to send automation to multiple locations just means that something like an EDM build up where you could have the same automation sent to 40-50 parameters, 40-50 lanes of automation instead of one, pretty easy to work out which is better.
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
It makes moving/copying/pasting automation data easier.
But it has issues too, if you dont need them, dont use them.
As an example, Copying/pooling to have automation sent to multiple locations is horrible.
While the copying/pooling is a great great idea, using it as a way to send automation to multiple locations just means that something like an EDM build up where you could have the same automation sent to 40-50 parameters, 40-50 lanes of automation instead of one, pretty easy to work out which is better.
I guess I'll need a video, because I don't understand this paragraph.
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Old 06-25-2017, 07:31 AM   #5
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It is very doubtful that you need it then
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:26 AM   #6
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leaky containers
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automation items that behave as such.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:13 AM   #7
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I'm seeing mixed un-itemed and itemed automation. is there a disadvantage to letting all automation always be an item, like an audio clip? i just don't think there should be a difference between an item and a non-item.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:25 AM   #8
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Backwards compatibility, I think.
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Old 06-27-2017, 12:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reapercurious View Post
I'm seeing mixed un-itemed and itemed automation. is there a disadvantage to letting all automation always be an item, like an audio clip? i just don't think there should be a difference between an item and a non-item.
this has been a core issue and somewhat onesided conversation with this entire pre cycle.

the way it currently exists, if these automation lanes were audio tracks, you'd essentially have a tone generator (that you couldn't turn off) blasting your track with a sine wave in between your audio items, even if you only wanted audio within your audio item bounds.
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automation items that behave as such.

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Old 06-27-2017, 01:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
this has been a core issue and somewhat onesided conversation with this entire pre cycle.

the way it currently exists, if these automation lanes were audio tracks, you'd essentially have a tone generator (that you couldn't turn off) blasting your track with a sine wave in between your audio items, even if you only wanted audio within your audio item bounds.
it would be a DC signal, even worse. unless there was A bit of logic that said "don't let Reaper do that"

as it stands, it is perfectly possible to create DC in Reaper and send it to the speakers.

currently, any audio clip may be used to modulate any parameter that an automation lane can.

this is a no brainer if seen in this light.

an automation envelope is an editable rectified signal.

i'm not saying that handling the automation system is trivial, it is very very complicated, so i would say to not go down the road of re-inventing the wheel. cut the losses. just base automation items on the same system that audio and midi clips use, but allow "inline editing" in a similar way that inline midi editing works, except on a sample level. like a pencil tool in sound forge. this could blast open waveform editing as well.
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:22 PM   #11
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I'm with mccrabney with this, not having the ability to disable the underlying envelope is missing a trick. The current system requires a mode that adds (or removes (live)) a horizontal/square line between the end of every automation item and the next point or automation item.
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Old 06-27-2017, 11:44 PM   #12
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And the problem with that is this:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=243

(second paragraph)
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Old 06-28-2017, 06:34 AM   #13
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the problem seems to be a lack of considering solutions on all parts.

1- option to preserve determinstic seek/most similar to existing workflow.
A, when seeking in spaces without envelope data, reference/detect previous automation point value and use that.
B, in the case where there is not yet envelope data (for example, 1st track automation item occurs after play cursor, reference/detect the next/first point).

this would likely be the system i would use 90% of the time.

2- (as option) accept that use of MIDI ccs as envelope control has been nondeterministic on hardware controllers since the 80s and as option allow REAPER's automation system to behave the same way.

3- refer to other DAWs that behave as requested and determine how they do it. i've seen screenshots posted by other users who would have to chime in here.
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Old 06-28-2017, 04:17 PM   #14
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It was asked for on day 1, it is worth reminding the developers if you want it because so far the answer is no.

Energy XT worked perfectly many years ago, empty space was just treated as the last point on the previous item.
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