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View Poll Results: To what OS should wifight be ported to *first*?
Windows PC 1 11.11%
Windows Mobile 1 11.11%
iPhone 3 33.33%
Mac PC 0 0%
Linux (mobile, i.e. the Pandora) 0 0%
Linux PC 2 22.22%
Android 1 11.11%
Other (please post below) 1 11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-30-2008, 08:50 PM   #1
Brennan
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Default What OS do you think wifight should be ported to first?

PalmOS will always be the birthplace of wifight, but we're never going to achieve world domination without wifight becoming available on more platforms. However, I'm only going to be able to work on one port at a time. So, which one to start on first? I thought I'd ask.

The easiest port would probably be to Windows on the desktop. The hardest would probably be Android (since it's Java only).
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:20 AM   #2
Tranquil
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i think Windows Mobile is the right thing to do! or maybe symbian os
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Old 10-01-2008, 09:14 AM   #3
trgeoff
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I need some background first..

...particularly, will the players on other platforms be playing with us Palm players?

If so:

* I would think there are issues with the Windows desktop route because most PC players are going to be highly frustrated with the sporadic play style of a mobile user.

* For mobile platforms, the main thing for me is, if only some mobile platforms allow for integrating with the Palm user sector, then obviously (as a Palm guy) I would be pumping for those. Beyond that, I guess its a compromise between ease of development and likelihood of uptake (and profitability?). I dont have any insights with that side of things but I cant emphasise enough how ***fantastic*** it would be if you could get us all going through a single server, and thus greatly expand the population of users. The greatest deficit for me of wifight at this point is that there's so little fightin'!

If not:

* I still dont see much point in going the desktop route with the current stock of wifight games, because that niche is pretty well covered. Your strong suit seems to be the mobile world, where, as many people have pointed out in the chat room, you should be able to make a killing with one or more of the new platforms on the block. But I cant really provide any useful mobile advice, since I'm not mobile junkie enough to have an informed opinion about all the varieties on offer. I guess if I had to switch from Palm to another platform, then it would probably be Apple, but it's not something Ive even vaguely dreamt about yet.

But good luck with whichever way you go!

cheers

geoff

Last edited by trgeoff; 10-01-2008 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:16 PM   #4
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Yes, first off, let me confirm that the plan is to get everybody playing on a single server. I think that will definitely be the most fun for everybody. wifight was designed from the beginning to be portable that way. Once I port the game engine over all the games should just work. Should. The UI etc would still probably need to be rewritten from scratch.

There could definitely be a bit of a culture clash trying to put mobile software on the desktop. On the other hand, there is no bigger market at the moment (than desktop PCs). We'll see, though. Seems like people are adapting to mobile devices even faster than they did to desktops.

So yeah, it will probably be a mobile platform. Which one? That's why I put up a poll! For ease of porting, it looks like Linux mobile or iphone might be the most easily done.

I'm not switching away from PalmOS any time soon, either. It's not like I don't still need/want a PDA, let alone mobile data etc. I just hope they come out with a PalmOS Treo soon that has GPS and Wifi. I don't even care about the new OS that much. If I just had my 680's functionality + GPS + wifi I'd be a happy dude.
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:47 AM   #5
trgeoff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brennan View Post
Yes, first off, let me confirm that the plan is to get everybody playing on a single server. I think that will definitely be the most fun for everybody. wifight was designed from the beginning to be portable that way. Once I port the game engine over all the games should just work. Should. The UI etc would still probably need to be rewritten from scratch.

There could definitely be a bit of a culture clash trying to put mobile software on the desktop. On the other hand, there is no bigger market at the moment (than desktop PCs). We'll see, though. Seems like people are adapting to mobile devices even faster than they did to desktops.
That's great news re the pooling of users.

I guess another angle on the desktop route I hadnt thought about is that there are times when I would like to access wifight via the PC. So, by extension, maybe most people would end up using wifight interchangeably on their PCs and mobiles, and therefore everyone would be sensitive to the "cultural" differences. Especially if you have implemented a choice of time-controls for games. Also I think it unlikely there would be much of a PC-only user sector, given the wide availability of wifight's stock of games elsewhere.

So overall, the via-PC-accessibility of wifight would primarily end up being an extra reason for mobile gamers to have it on their mobile. It may even be competitively necessary if, for example, mobile users on other platforms (eg iPhone) can already, or in the future, adequately access the big game servers like Yahoo etc via their browser or some dedicated apps (can they??). You could end up having a big advantage actually, because it might be quite challenging for an operation like yahoo games to cater to the mobile sector, since their existing user base is so attuned to games being completed at a single sitting (and even then, about twice as quickly as the time-control agreed to!). You wouldnt be burdened by that type of history.

So having rethought this, and in light of the fact Im not thinking of changing mobile platforms, Im now voting for a desktop version, even if I cant change my poll entry!

(Im still a little puzzled as to what sort of criteria you are looking for people to apply in their decision. Is it what each person personally wants (ie because they may be thinking about switching from Palm to Platform X) or something broader, eg what they think will be the most viable business model?)

cheers

geoff

Last edited by trgeoff; 10-04-2008 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:57 AM   #6
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A somewhat-pertinent question:

Does anyone know if its possible to get wifight to run on a Windows mobile using StyleTap? Of course, even if you can, Im sure its not as neat as having a platform-dedicated version of wf.

StyleTap is also working on an iPhone version, but they arent saying yet when it will be ready.

geoff
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Old 10-07-2008, 03:03 PM   #7
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Well, I just wanted to see if there was any overwhelming preference one way or another. It's not meant to be super scientific

wifight being PC accessible would probably help more than it could hurt. More players, playing more, pretty much never hurts I'm thinkin. On the other hand, have you read pretty much any youtube comment? I'm joking but still. But you're right it would probably be mostly mobile users on their desktops.

re: styletap I don't know if anyone's tried it on Windows Mobile but the free Access sim provided for the Nokia N770, N800 or N810 is definitely known to work for wifight.

Styletap on iphone would rock! I really hope they release that. I used to kind of hope PalmOS would become like Java, with simulators for all the other OSes. I still think it could happen, but Access hasn't released any more simulators in a while.

It's too bad the official Palm 5.x simulator isn't free to redistribute (that I know of.) It runs wifight quite well
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:39 PM   #8
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OK it looks like a Windows client will in fact be the first wifight client port. At least an experimental version. I was thinking about it and I realized that I had already ported the game engine to win32 for the PalmOS simulator and the screenshot generator, so I could reuse that work.

Also, I liked the idea of having a nonmobile/desktop client, so perhaps people will be able to stay logged in longer and play more, since they're not burning precious battery power.

So it's a bang-for-the-buck thing. Windows is a huge market, so that's a big bang. And with a lot of the porting work already done, the buck should be reasonable. Also, win32 is itself kind of portable, in that you can use WINE to run windows apps on Linux and Macs! And there are native win32 based mobile devices too of course (Oqo for example.)

Other ports will follow of course, but that's the course for the short term. Thanks to everyone who voted and gave feedback.

Oh and by the way we now have confirmation (Thanks Seizure!) that wifight does work on Windows Mobile via StyleTap. Which is awesome.
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Old 10-23-2008, 08:45 AM   #9
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Why not make either an AJAX or Java web-based version of wifight? Then you have mac, Linux, and Windows done (more or less) all in one shot!

If you did it in JAVA, you'd still mainly have one port that should work w/o too much trouble on all 3 platforms....
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Old 10-23-2008, 05:06 PM   #10
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That would be very cool to have, but it would require more of a from-scratch rewrite than I want to do right now. Long-term, yes. Meantime, I want to reuse the work I already put into the C++ client as much as possible.
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:56 AM   #11
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Brennan

Im headed back to Oz for 10 weeks on Nov 20, and wont probably have Treo net access for that period (eek!)

Any feeling on the timeline on the port - dont want to forfeit all my games!

geoff
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Old 11-12-2008, 10:08 PM   #12
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Well, hopefully in less than 60 days then

It's coming along. I hope I'll have an experimental version for you to try before the 20th. So far I have it logging in, downloading turns, and rendering a gameboard into a generic popup window. The next big task is recreating the UI. I'm considering writing an automatic tool to translate PalmOS forms to Windows dialog boxes, but it might be overkill. We'll see.
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Old 11-14-2008, 04:29 PM   #13
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Default iPhone is dominant

I know. You may have already picked windows mobile but your reasoning about market share will be (if not already) flawed. The iPhone is the #1 selling cell phone, let alone smart phone, displacing the razor which has been on top for numerous quarters. Millions of apps downloaded in short period of time. Spend some time and look at the numbers developers are getting downloading their apps at apple's app store. Nothing else compares. Then iPhone is a game changer.

Admittedly I am now biased having switched, but after using palms for 10 years I am excited about my mobile again. If palm hadn't taken a rear for a couple of years .... Grrrrrr.

But you already face competition with Chess with Friends on the iPhone, though it is in developing state as well.

Edit: just realized you are doing non-mobile windows. Ok, there are more of those. ;-). But still keep in mind the iPhone!!

Just my 2 cents. And I still want Go/ baduk in a format like wifight / chess with friends!!!

But do take a look at iPhone app numbers and you will find your answers.

Last edited by Bspooky; 11-14-2008 at 04:33 PM. Reason: add
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Old 11-14-2008, 09:45 PM   #14
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hi bspooky- good to hear from you after so long- we miss you on wifight! my winning percentage at chess is unduly over-rated in your absence! I will have look into Chess With Friends (not that I have an iphone).

Edit: have you tried Little Golem, Bsp? It looks even more interesting than CwF, and has multiple versions of Go as well:

http://www.appsafari.com/games/6672/little-golem/

Screenshots are pretty impressive:

http://www.littlegolem.net/jsp/blog/blog.jsp?blogid=6


Brennan: great that the windows port is coming along so fast. I hadnt thought of the travelling angle when i was considering the various options, but it will help out anyone on holiday who cant get on the net with their treo.

good luck with the GUI!

cheers

geoff

Last edited by trgeoff; 11-14-2008 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:54 AM   #15
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Wow, thanks for those sites! I didn't think of looking for web apps as only having the 3G iphone I have only looked at native apps!

And yeah, I miss it here too (though not sure I would have caused your ranking to go down THAT much! LOL). Life tossed me around a bit and then I switched to the iPhone 3G on its first release date and the poor Treo has been collecting dust ever since. Well, almost. I regretted it for awhile until I found a good task management application (Appigo's Todo synching with toodledo.com).

Maybe Brennan will get that Windows client going and I can have it run in a Fusion window on my Mac (yup, jumped to Apple for both cell phone and home computer....scary!) in coherence mode. That would be nice!

Course, even nicer would be a native iPhone client. ;-)
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:24 AM   #16
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I'd be interested to see how you find Little Golem, if you get a chance to try it. Looks like a huge and vibrant community.

I also returned to macs recently, and Ive been using VMware Fusion too (if thats what yr referring to)- absolutely brilliant. Ah - I noticed you also mention "coherence' mode, which is the Parallels terminology. I didnt mind Parallels but VMWare runs much faster.

The main plus with the mac for me is not having to wage (a constant and losing) war with viruses and malware anymore.

Im in india, and we dont even have 3G yet (coming next year they say), and the iPhone is about $600! and even then youre locked into a carrier. Explains why they have only sold about 10,000 here I think. Apple has minimal presence here, apart from ipods.

cheers

geoff
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:01 PM   #17
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Well, jumped into little Golem with 3 tournament games and two random games (all Chess for the moment). Wish it had a native app, but it should prove interesting anyway.

And yes, meant VMware's Fusion. I started out with Parallels and the term coherence just kinda stuck. Fusion did a LOT better job of cloning my other PC to have on my Mac, and VMware workstation for Windows is a very nice product, so Fusion is my main virtual windows.

Yikes on the cost of the 3G iPhone!!!! I only have edge so far but rumors were 3G was coming to my area by year's end. And actually just heard this weekend it may be turned on Monday! Hope that is true. Even without the 3G network, I really like the iPhone.
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:34 PM   #18
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Wow, thanks for keeping me appraised of the competition. I hadn't heard of either of those services before.

And yes, let me confirm: wifight is coming to iPhone! 100% Yes. I have a Macbook now (dual booting to XP whew) and an iPhone port is next up after Windows. WinCE etc can come later. Right now I want to open the door to the biggest market of all (Windows). Then the new hotness (iPhone). Then we'll see. Doing the Windows port is helping me get code organized for all future ports too.

Good to hear from you again, Bspooky. I hope we can get you wifighting again ASAP.
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Old 11-17-2008, 03:27 PM   #19
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Hey, great news on iPhone being batter up after Windows!! I can't wait!

When you get to testing part if you need a tester let me know. I haven't looked too much into development on the iPhone but know there is a way for beta testers to share with developers some unique code on their iPhone so they can install and test beta apps.

And I look forward to wifighting again! I miss you all! sniff sniff
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:36 PM   #20
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Default winclient peek



Still very much a work in progress, but it's progress-ing pretty good...
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:48 PM   #21
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Bspooky: good to hear you're ready to test. I have also heard there's an "ad hoc" method of distribution for testers but I don't know the details yet.

We miss you too! Hopefully it won't be that much longer until I can lose another Chess game to you
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Old 11-25-2008, 02:15 PM   #22
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Yay for the winclient! I volunteer to test that of course.
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:08 PM   #23
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You know it
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:21 AM   #24
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you know me Basu.

I have a Windows Mobile 6.0 Treo 750. I'm using the StyleTap emulator to run WiFight in a Palm OS environment just for WiFight!. I can help you test the WM Client if you need to.
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Old 12-23-2008, 06:08 PM   #25
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Aight Seizure sounds good Windows Mobile will come along soon after iphone I imagine.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:22 PM   #26
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well..someone has to be the first to say it..i think you now need to add in WebOS to your list Brennan

cheers

geoff
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:44 AM   #27
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Angry

Darn it! Not another one!
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Old 08-26-2010, 05:01 PM   #28
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android actually has a native development kit that only requires you to use java as a loader.

can be found here: http://developer.android.com/sdk/ndk/index.html

wise option for ports would be iOS (iphone/ipod touch/ipad) and android (desire, galaxy s, galaxy tab, x10, countless others) as they are both now becoming the most widely used mobile platforms. though a windows mobile port would be something that people would use.

sdk's for ios and android both come with pretty good emulators too, so cuts on the costs of actually buying a device.
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Old 10-11-2010, 08:50 PM   #29
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This is probably too basic, right?
http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/about/

"Is App Inventor only a toy language? Can you build sophisticated apps with it?

Though App Inventor has limitations, it can be used to build complex apps. The language provides programming constructs like foreach, while, and if-else, in visual (block) form. High-level components and operations (blocks) for some of the Android functionality exists, though not all of it. There are mechanisms for communicating with web services and databases. A component development kit is being considered. This will allow programmers to build App Inventor components with Java and expand the functionality of App Inventor."
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