Old 07-25-2013, 01:27 PM   #1
zvukofor
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Default New Reaper OSC controller for Lemur

Hello everybody.
I'd like to present you Reaper OSC controller for Lemur. I named it Binder. ))

Here are some features:
• Tracks with names in scrollable banks of 30 tracks, with dedicated sends matrix
• Direct controls for level, pan, cut/solo/arm, up to 4 sends, track monitoring and track automation modes on each track
• Multiple tracks selection (enables grouping of mixer parameters like level, pan, cut/solo/arm, etc.)
• K-system color-coded metering on each track
• Almost full control of selected track FXs: all parameters with real names and values in a banks of 16 knobs, bypass, bypass all FXs on track
• Dedicated full FX bypass (including master) button
• Dedicated buttons for item/track/take manipulations
• Advanced item/marker/grid navigation and full DAW snapshots
• Simple connection and solid functioning, thanks to Liine Lemur
• Detailed manual

Download here:
http://liine.net/en/community/user-library/view/410/
or on my blog:
http://zvukofor.blogspot.ru/p/binder.html

Feel free to ask questions.

Thank you. I hope you'll enjoy to work with Binder as i do.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:37 PM   #2
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Sounds great, thanks for sharing!



..just hope I can eventually buy Lemur for android or win 8 though.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:51 PM   #3
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This looks excellent.

Be patient. It may take a few days for the Lemur OSC users to find this, as they may not check every day.

I'll certainly keep this in mind for when I'm able to purchase an iPad for this very purpose.

Thank you for your hard work. I'll toss in a healthy donation when I try it out and begin using it.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:35 AM   #4
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Looks great zvukofor!

... but DANG!! I was not aware of the reaper-osc-actions.ini trick!

We learn new things everyday here (silent update? it was not mentionned in the changelogs as far as I can tell...).
Those "unreliable" action mappings via OSC were annoying, it's a great step forward, thanks for this "indirect" tip too, zvukofor!
[EDIT] digging this.. in fact we have that file from day one, things are just not working like I was thinking

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-26-2013 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:20 AM   #5
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Hi,
this is great!
I spent days tweaking TouchOSC, just to see your solution being miles ahead...

Dropped TouchOSC and bought Lemur right after reading zvukofors manual.

@zvukofor: Maybe you should make your Paypal-Donation link english (like your website), it is russian and changing "ru" to "de" in the url (in my case, i'm from germany) did not help...

Thanks,
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
Looks great zvukofor!
+1, looking clean and elegant. Lemur is excellent for this sort of thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
... but DANG!! I was not aware of the reaper-osc-actions.ini trick!

We learn new things everyday here (silent update? it was not mentionned in the changelogs as far as I can tell...).
Those "unreliable" action mappings via OSC were annoying, it's a great step forward, thanks for this "indirect" tip too, zvukofor!
[EDIT] digging this.. in fact we have that file from day one, things are just not working like I was thinking
Thanks for bringing this up again, Jeffos. But I don't see how that makes actions mapped via OSC any less "unreliable". (Anyone, please don't see my comments below as rain on zvukofor's parade, but as constructive criticism to improve REAPER in ways that Binder would probably also benefit from directly.)

Afaik that file is simply the place where REAPER stores whatever actions you bind to whatever OSC messages using the regular Learn feature, and is independent from any particular OSC control surface configuration used (as such, it is simply a way to avoid having people who want to use this learn a bunch of mappings manually themselves - NB: people who already have learned actions should probably attempt to merge the files rather than simply copying the file, to avoid losing their current bindings). So as far as I can see, it does not in any way resolve the issue that (esp. custom) action ID's can change between builds - unlike with ReaScript, we simply don't have a method to dynamically look up the action IDs and be certain to fire the intended action.

Also, fwiw, using the Learn feature (or manually changing the file) creates bindings of OSC messages to REAPER actions that are somewhat inferior in functionality to bindings configured using the .ReaperOSC file, as learned bindings do not enable feedback to the OSC client (much like learned MIDI bindings do not generate MIDI feedback). Although some types of actions / use cases do not require feedback, in general that is a major restriction in functionality, and hence a major hindrance to my workflow. So when using OSC bidirectionally, I would generally recommend to completely avoid Actions such as e.g. "Adjust track FX parameter XX", "Adjust track send X pan", "Adjust track send X volume", "Set mute for track X", "Set solo for track X", "Set pan for track X", "Set stereo width (or right channel pan) for track X", "Set volume for track X". Instead, just configure the equivalent actions in the .ReaperOSC file and enjoy getting feedback.

As for another current issue with REAPER's OSC support: I also noticed the comment in Binder's manual about touch automation, and really hope apps like this one spark up some more interest in expanding REAPER's support for "touch" automation via OSC to more parameters than only track volume and panning. Apps like this can be made much more useful when touch automation is supported more generally on REAPER's end - which seems to require only a modest amount of effort.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:08 PM   #7
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I assume the lemur is only available used these days?
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:19 PM   #8
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Let's not derail the thread, I'll try to make it short (and will not come back whatever happens, promised!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Thanks for bringing this up again, Jeffos. But I don't see how that makes actions mapped via OSC any less "unreliable".
Well, I think it does: if you download zvukofor's zip, unzip it where explained => it works, and it will work for all users, so it is reliable in that regard..
.. but, for the reasons you said (except may be with the "action feedback" thing: other issue to me + examples sounds like bugs to me :/), it still a workaround I agree!
Workaround, but the better thing zvukofor could do at the moment, I think.

Background: among the list of features in the OP, some of them are actually SWS ones so, with a "simple zip" I dared zvukofor's OSC layout won't work for the very reasons discussed here.. I had a look => reaper-osc-actions.ini file!!? Dang, I completely missed that one! I was thinking OSC bindings were saved in reaper-kb.ini (with all other MIDI/keyboard bindings), so much more complicated than that.

Anyway, I'm with you Banned, let's hope such great layouts will push actions' string identifiers support, I mean straight things like /action/_SWS_ABOUT (or any other way).
On a sidenote, there would be solutions via SWS too (e.g. we have fixed numeric IDs in the action section "S&M extension" humm...) but this really sounds like a job for REAPER, not SWS.

___

@zvukofor: may be a note like "if reaper-osc-actions.ini already exits, do no overwrite but merge!" worths being added though (?)
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I assume the lemur is only available used these days?
This is obviously intended to be used with the (kind of expensive but very awesome) Lemur app for iOS devices, not the (kind of awesome but very expensive ) Lemur hardware device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
[...] Well, I think it does: if you download zvukofor's zip, unzip it where explained => it works, and it will work for all users, so it is reliable in that regard..

[...]

@zvukofor: may be a note like "if reaper-osc-actions.ini already exits, do no overwrite but merge!" worths being added though (?)
Yeah, I sure do agree that it makes the setup process more reliable than having to learn a bunch of mappings manually, and of course it's also much easier. Apart from that small caveat for possibly overwriting any pre-existing file, the provided instructions look excellent; very clear and easy to follow.
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:01 AM   #10
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Cool, great work. Would try it out but I don't have an iPad.

I will promote this on the blog tomorrow.
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Old 07-27-2013, 01:58 AM   #11
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Thank you guys, i really appreciate your feedback.

Sorry about some misconceptions on "reaper-osc-actions.ini" overwriting, i should mention it in manual, and yes, you can overwrite original file if it is just empty one.
If you have your own custom actions, then you should "merge" (i think it is windows-only function?), or, if on Mac, just copy file's content to the one you already have...damn, i do not thought about this situation, i should mention it in manual. Thanks guys!

I'm sure Reaper' development team will learn things about OSC we want and can use and make one step forward users to improve things.

I will follow this thread and will fix bugs in a short time.
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Old 12-29-2014, 09:02 PM   #12
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zvukofor,

Just installed Binder and it's beautiful! Noticed a couple of things:

There seems to be a discrepancy between Binder and the DAW at times. I noticed it with Diva. When I turn a knob on Binder, the position of the knob matches Diva in Reaper, but the value of the knob doesn't update completely (e.g. I completely open the cut off and knob shows it, but the number read 145 instead of 150. Until I click on the knob in Reaper and it updates). Is it a problem with Binder or is it an updating/latency issue on my side?

Also, is it possible to have a CC page/function as well? I find it a lot easier to draw CC automation on the glass rather than with the mouse.

Thanks again!
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Old 01-10-2015, 09:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gembez View Post
zvukofor,

Just installed Binder and it's beautiful! Noticed a couple of things:

There seems to be a discrepancy between Binder and the DAW at times. I noticed it with Diva. When I turn a knob on Binder, the position of the knob matches Diva in Reaper, but the value of the knob doesn't update completely (e.g. I completely open the cut off and knob shows it, but the number read 145 instead of 150. Until I click on the knob in Reaper and it updates). Is it a problem with Binder or is it an updating/latency issue on my side?

Also, is it possible to have a CC page/function as well? I find it a lot easier to draw CC automation on the glass rather than with the mouse.

Thanks again!
It is known bug in Reaper OSC implementation, AFAIK, that sometimes numeric parameters do not display correct numbers, but knobs works as it intended.

Well, i can make one more page for MIDI CC knobs, but you can do it by yourself too, it is pretty easy.
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Old 01-14-2015, 05:56 PM   #14
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Thanks for your reply.

I'm sure it's much easier for you to implement CC than for me! (Something like faderlab)
I would greatly appreciate it.
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Old 03-19-2015, 08:12 AM   #15
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Bump



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Old 03-19-2015, 12:29 PM   #16
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O.K. D/L`d everything but the £24.99 \\lemur app - gonna crack the books a little and decide if Binder + Lemur really IS simple enough for a dumb bunny like me to get my head round it.
Then I have to decide if it goes on the 8 inch hudl or the 7 inch samsung galaxy tab 2.

I would LOVE it if I can manage to get this up and running easily.
Especially if I don`t need to reinvent the wheel by learning OSC as well as MIDI
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Old 03-19-2015, 04:16 PM   #17
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@ivan

It works well. Lots to play with and learn as you go. Go slow, make notes, make changes, make more notes, just go with the flow.

p.s. are you on a Mac? Works well in Windows 7 (and probably 8+), but cannot confirm usage or setup on Mac. just sayin'
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:30 PM   #18
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Nope on WIn8.1 on one machine and tech preview of 10 on another.
I am in France with only my mobile setup till the weekend, so I hope to get to grips with this next week.
Frankly, the $25 can come out of my gig money from Saturday night and that way I wont miss it.
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:39 PM   #19
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This a beautiful template, nice work!

Unfortunately, I have a problem...

Using Windows 8.1, Lemur 5.2.2 with LoopMIDI. I've set up everything exactly as in the manual. Control is not bi-directional. When I change parameters in Reaper (i.e. move a fader), it shows up on the iPad. But not the other way around.

Any ideas? If I can get this fixed, it will be just about perfect!
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Old 04-13-2015, 04:45 PM   #20
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Why do you use LoopMIDI? Template is working with OSC protocol only.
Still, if it is not working with straight connection - check ports ans IPs.
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Old 04-16-2015, 06:37 AM   #21
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Default receives ? Headphone mix

Hey zvukofor,

I really like this template.
Can you add receives?
I am using reaper to record my band and have two headphone(cue) mixes.
My cue mixes are based on 8 sends to a particular track.
It very difficult to try to manipulate the individual sends for each track. I need to be able to adjust all the receives for selected track from my ipad. So I can have it in front of me while I play bass, and when my guitarist changes his patch and is too loud, I can bring him down in the headphones...

Any thoughts on this.

In my current setup - I have two cue mixe tracks, one with vocals (so i can add some verb) and one with instruments, I leave dry.
Vox cue mix has 6 receives, instrument cue mix has 6 receives.

I looked at your reaper.osc file and see that receives are commented out.

Suggestions on how to approach this?
Ideally it would just be a different page of binder, since this integrates so well with reaper.
Or maybe S/R in the top section? And (R)receives would only be for selected track. Maybe 10 receives per selected track?
Thoughts?
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:13 AM   #22
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Since Lemur is avaliable for Android users, I can't find any template that will fit into my Galaxy Note 2's screen. The resolution is 1280x720. Could you, please, give me some advice of how to properly scale down your template to 640x316? When I've changed resolution manually, it gave me weird result. And I couldn't change the size of the separate controls manually.


https://i.imgur.com/mjohVBe.png
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
Can you add receives?
....
Maybe 10 receives per selected track?
Thoughts?
Great idea, Flipotto!

Also in my "Binder 1.2 to-do list":
-Stereo VU on channels
-Pan mode with a second "width" knob
-Pan for sends and receives
-Advanced transport control with more precise FF/FW and current region/marker name and number indication
-More navigation goodness: full markers and regions lists, etc. Trying to make Reaper work like a standalone recorder-editor, to make user to make decisions only by ear, as it is prooved in my last practice to be the best way to work.

Also making some improvements in useability - 8 tracks on one screen VS 10 is feeling better for fingers, bigger knobs for track selection, etc.

I have an idea to make 2 size versions —*the bigger one will utilise full screen for faders and Solo/Cut/etc, second full screen for channel strip, and the third for editing. Popups for quick navigation.

And i'm designing a "console-style" controller, where we will get a complete channel strip for every channel, switching full screens between 8 channels-at-once of level-pan-solo-cut, EQ section, dynamics section, so when using 3 iPads in a column we'll have an analog-style GUI for a digital console.

Alas, i'm doing all this in my free time, so we cannot have some ETAs )))

I wish i'd be an iOS programmer, i could do all this stuff more fast and good-looking without stupid Lemur mess, as a separate app with it's own nice GUI.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fundorin View Post
.... how to properly scale down your template to 640x316?
Unfortunately, there's no easy way to scale down the interface, you could try it to do manually, but, there are some limitations on minimum size of objects in Lemur, so it is not always possible to scale down some elements.

And, BTW, if i would make some future Binder versions for Android, it woud be a MUCH BIGGER versions, like at those Youtube videos where a guy showing his Lemur DJ rig on a big 21" Android-powered device.
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Old 05-28-2015, 02:54 AM   #25
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Thanks for considering adding receives.
After doing receives in touch osc, I will add a screenshot when I'm at computer,
I discovered that I only need fine control over these receives, most of the time.
I don't know how to make the touchosc slider act in small increments.

I have started down lemur editor path several times, only to be frustrated by the complexity of the way thing work in the lemur editor. There are concepts I just can't seem to get my head around. I will attempt again when I have time.

Is there a mute receive?
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipotto View Post
...
Is there a mute receive?
Unfortunately, Reaper does not allow neither send, nor receive mutes via OSC "natively", with a feedback. We can use trick with reaper-osc-actions.ini, allowing to get any action in Reaper to work via OSC, but without any feedback, which is not good for this task, but OK for Reaper commands.
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Old 05-29-2015, 02:44 PM   #27
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Some preview of work in progress.
One new thing more: it is white now! Much easier to work in a daylight and in a normal studio environment. Just add iOS' "acessability/invert colors" shortcut to double-clicking home button - and voila!
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:00 PM   #28
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Very nice. As I get older I appreciate those accessibility options more and more
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Old 06-05-2015, 06:13 AM   #29
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Any chance of getting e CC page as well?
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Old 06-05-2015, 07:55 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gembez View Post
Any chance of getting e CC page as well?
What do you want that for? How you'd like it to be organised/designed?
Of course, i can make a complete page full of CC knobs, but it really depends on a task how to align/color them, which size of knobs, etc...do knobs needs names/values? Do they need reset on double-click?

BTW, i'm experimenting on making custom plugins interfaces to work in Binder...like, you select an EQ in current track, and instead of just 20 parameters knobs you've got full EQ layout with color-coded knobs of different size, buttons for selecting filter types, etc... yes, we can't get "meters" for comps here or gimmiky "EQ curves", but it just makes us to work more with our ears, not eyes...and this is the main purpose of all control surfaces!

Anyhow, the basic "set" of these will be included in Binder 2.1

Right now i'm making interfaces for these plugins (which i'm using extensively):
Toneboosters: EQ, Bus Compressor, Ferox, Module, Omnisone, Reelbus;
Vladg: Molot, Limiter6;
ValhallaVV;
TDR: SlickEQ, Kotelnikov;
Voxengo TubeAmp;

The only problem i'm seing so far is the Lemur's limit on project size, so you can't get every plugin interface in a template...but i still can cut on some other less useful functions...we'll see.
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:04 AM   #31
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Default Binder 2 testing

OK, here we go, pre-release version of Binder-2:

http://www.zvukofor.com/2015/06/bind...e-release.html

No manual right now, but almost the same functions as in Binder-1, only more and better )

Remember that some Reaper operations have no feedback to controller, like navigation and items operations commands, also phase invert and master out send/mute sends, so this ones are not bugs of the Binder.

New features:
- Stereo metering on tracks
- double pan knobs (for "pan+width" mode)
- 8 sends with pan per track
- 24 receives with pans per track (for cue busses)
- 20 selected FX parameters in bank
- FX chain copy/paste add/paste replace
- Sends copy/paste add/paste replace/delete/mute-unmute
- Phase invert
- Master send mute per track (for cue busses)
- Change plugins order in chain
- "Relative" faders mode (in addition to "free" and "cap only")
- 12 snapshots save/recall
- Current region and marker indication for easy "tape-style" navigation
- 24 markers with names (just touch "current marker name")
- 24 regions with names (touch "current region name")
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:11 AM   #32
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Thanks for receives!
Cool, I'll try it today, and post feedback.

Do you want feedback here?
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Old 06-05-2015, 10:16 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Do you want feedback here?
Why not?
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Old 06-06-2015, 06:01 AM   #34
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Quote:
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What do you want that for? How you'd like it to be organised/designed?
Of course, i can make a complete page full of CC knobs, but it really depends on a task how to align/color them, which size of knobs, etc...do knobs needs names/values? Do they need reset on double-click?
Basically I'm looking for something like Faderlab (the preset that comes with lemur). That is, a number of faders that can be assigned to different CCs.
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:03 AM   #35
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Why don't just merge Binder and Faderlab? —*you can copy Faderlab and paste it on 2-nd page of Binder, for example.
It is not that i do not want to make a new CC page, but it is just strange not to use excellent template Antonio already made.
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:20 AM   #36
zvukofor
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New ideas for Binder 2 i've already implemented, but not yet released:
now you can add (and delete) FX to track via "FX browser" with 32 slots, implemented by SWS Extensions function which allows you to insert a populated in Resources "FX Chain" on a track.

User just need more manual setup for it to work, like save all FXs you use as a separate FX chains, and name buttons in "FX Browser" in Binder 2 manually too, but it's really easy. Also there is a way to do it via S&M Cycle Actions, not sure which way is more easy for user...

Anyhow, now i can record and mix projects without looking at a computer screen at all!
Well, almost like that: still need to load a recording template and name all tracks...i'm not sure why iPadASCIIKeyboard template is not working good, if i could manage it (maybe with someone's help?) - even tracks naming could be made straight from Binder.
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Old 06-08-2015, 08:44 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zvukofor View Post
Why don't just merge Binder and Faderlab? —*you can copy Faderlab and paste it on 2-nd page of Binder, for example.
It is not that i do not want to make a new CC page, but it is just strange not to use excellent template Antonio already made.
I wasn't able to get Faderlab to work with Reaper for some reason. Never thought about merging them though, will give it a try.
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Old 06-08-2015, 01:54 PM   #38
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I wasn't able to get Faderlab to work with Reaper for some reason. Never thought about merging them though, will give it a try.
It is all a matter of right connection, really. You need to assign MIDI port in Lemur parameters, then check Daemon that everything is working fine, and then configure Reaper to receive MIDI to control parameters, that's it.

Back to topic: has anyone checked a beta of Binder2? What do you think of it? Any suggestions?
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Old 06-09-2015, 03:50 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zvukofor View Post
Back to topic: has anyone checked a beta of Binder2? What do you think of it? Any suggestions?
I only had a chance to try it quickly, I really like where you are heading with it, being able to remote control reaper and not even see the computer screen, awesome!
I did not import the actions yet, I only played with the receives.

On the receives - this is difficult for me to use - the controls (knobs) are too small (to coarse) for me and labels are difficult to see. I have the ipad on a mic stand near me, while I am playing guitar or bass, and a bandmate suddenly turns up too loud/ or gets too quiet. I need to, quickly, fade them up/down a small amount and get back to my instrument. Also, when I am tracking I mute the master, and just feed audio out to headphones with the cue buss tracks. So those are the only ones I really need to see, during that phase of recording.

I included a screenshot of my, ugly, touchosc cue mix I hacked together. It only has 2 cuemix tracks (one for vocals and one for instruments). I will try to get a better screenshot of it in action on the ipad.
Labels are overlayed on each fader. Easy to see, easy to touch, unfortunately, the faders are not fine control. I like the fader switches you have for relative/touch (I am not using the correct terms). Mine works but I would rather use binder, especially with all that you have included.

Any chance of adding receives on it's own page?

Maybe I need to do that... I suppose I have to start somewhere, however, binder is very complex and it's difficult for me to understand your structure. I don't even know how to add a page yet. I guess I will be spending some time with the manual today.

I am looking forward to see what region/marker controls you have going in binder, perhaps I can test more today.
Attached Images
File Type: png touchosc.png (18.7 KB, 213 views)
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Old 06-09-2015, 07:27 PM   #40
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Hey - I am getting a longer look at this...
You have done some incredible work here!
There are complex controls.
The markers and region stuff looks very nice.
I have not fully tested them, yet.

Feature requests -
- metronome toggle and
- metronome volume
- Solo mode
- solo in place with volume?

----- Not intended to derail thread - crazy suggestion ----

Have you considered using mcu protocol for the mixer faders/pans and selects for a midi/osc hybrid... I am not suggesting just do another mcu

There are a few reasons I suggest it.
1. You have 8 track per bank. mcu uses that too and banks are unlimited. (I don't actually know that for sure.)
2. This could reduce the number of fader objects to only 8 tracks + 1 master, thus reducing file size.
3. Use Klinke's csurf plugin lists many of the cool things it can do.
4. My favorite by far from Klinke's csurf plugin is flexibility of folder tracks.
Here is my simplified example.

Drums - 1 parent folder track called drums, with child tracks of kick, snare, hihat, overheadFront, overheadBack (modified recorderman), Room stereo and FX.
So Drums is the parent (I can set klinke's csurf to only show parent track faders on ipad mixer) and with this setting only this drums track is shown on mixer. Now if I touch and hold select for 1sec on that track, the lcd and the faders dive into the folder. Now the child tracks are shown on the faders and the lcd ready to be adjusted. Now lets extend, the child track for FX may have several child tracks as well. Select and hold 1sec and the mixer again dives down. This is really powerful.

As I really think about this - pans would have to be mcu or they would not work proper during the folder diving. That goes with solos/mutes as well... hmmm... perhaps this is too far?
The other downfall is it would make setup for user more intense.
- downloading the plugin, installing it, setting up midi as well as osc.

However - in your goal to be able to use it without looking at screen, it might be right on. MCU also has a jog/scrub wheel which could come in handy. Don't know where that would fit on your screen.
Several parts of MCU mixer with the variety of osc and action triggers.

----- end of crazy suggestion ------ I'll crawl back in my hole.
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