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Old 01-15-2015, 09:56 PM   #41
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That's exciting boss. Throw us a bone.
Next build

Most of this will likely get in to 4.x too. Here's another step:



It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
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Old 01-15-2015, 11:24 PM   #42
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Hmm. What will happen to continuous item (and notes?) I guess we'll see. Well, my view is I'd like to be able to subordinate the grid to the music. I don't really want content moving when adjusting the barlines. Seems like it's working like that now(edit-in pre 5c). I can venture that some might wish to use time sigs to create rhythmic effects, but other than possibly maxdis' post a few back, I haven't really seen anyone asking for that. It's why I posted a FR thread asking for additional "quarter note timebase." No one responded.

It seems like actions or scripts could provide spaces or removals if timemap adjusted well. Something like a multiple skipping insert time or remove contents to next time signature. Not sure.

Last edited by FnA; 01-16-2015 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 01-16-2015, 12:45 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Next build

Most of this will likely get in to 4.x too. Here's another step:

<snip>

It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
Yeah I'm not sure if this is the right way to go, adding empty sections breaking the continuity of items...
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Old 01-16-2015, 04:32 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Yeah I'm not sure if this is the right way to go, adding empty sections breaking the continuity of items...
Am a little unsure here myself.
One option is making partial measure after, preserving item-distance (as is now I believe)
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Old 01-16-2015, 05:10 AM   #45
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I think-

:07 It should make a 3/4 and a 1/4 without moving or splitting anything.

:13 Similar

:21 Similar

:27 Not sure. Maybe user shouldn't try to force bigger measure without expecting something like that. (edit might be similar to first 3 if there were more measures before next time change.)

:38 Good.

:44 Good.

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Old 01-16-2015, 06:10 AM   #46
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Here's another one for pre 5c.



Maybe the time sig behavior will change next pre?

Notice the note won't go to the end of the item.

edit- how do you turn on the time feature in licecap?

Last edited by FnA; 05-08-2015 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 01-16-2015, 08:59 AM   #47
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Did you ever split the item? That could create the offset. In any case, I'll look at if we can make it autodetect when it has an offset that would be better treated as 0 (very close to the source length)...
Maybe I splitted it, I can't remember now...but I'm thinking that in a project with many items it would be a nightmare to keep tracks of which of them have an offset; maybe we could have an option in global preferences to reset the offset to 0 every time we do a split?
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:01 AM   #48
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It will only ever add (switching from one measure of 5/4 to 3/4 will add a second measure, but it's easy to remove the extra measure once you decide you're good to lose the content there).
The change from 4/4 to 9/8 in your example is exactly as it should works, the other ones looks a bit messy, why can't we have the same behaviour for every time sig changes?
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Old 01-16-2015, 09:19 AM   #49
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I don't really want content moving when adjusting the barlines. Seems like it's working like that now(edit-in pre 5c). I can venture that some might wish to use time sigs to create rhythmic effects, but other than possibly maxdis' post a few back, I haven't really seen anyone asking for that.
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing, but I feel that adding and removing spaces is exactly as it should work; if I change a measure from 4/4 to 6/4 in a given musical piece, I'm expecting that all the content after that will shift later by 2/4. This is not a rhythmic effect, but a basic music rhythm behaviour. If you take a notation editor software, and change a measure tim sig from 4/4 to 6/4, the software will add a 2/4 rest before the end of that measure.
Of course the new space should add perfectly to the misure new lenght: in Justin example, it seems to work perfectly on the 4/4 to 9/8 change, because a 1/8 space is added, but in the other ones the space added is way too much...

Anyway, if people prefer to have no space added/removed on time changes, at least let's make it optional for those of us who prefer to have it working in the way notation software does.
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Old 01-16-2015, 10:31 AM   #50
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Of course the new space should add perfectly to the misure new lenght: in Justin example, it seems to work perfectly on the 4/4 to 9/8 change, because a 1/8 space is added, but in the other ones the space added is way too much...
If you switch a measure from 4/4 to 7/8, it will need to either remove 1/8th, or add 6/8th. It chooses to do the latter (to avoid removing that missing bar) -- if you didn't want the extra measure, you can easily remove it. If we made it remove when necessary (which I'm not inclined to do), it would have removed an 8th and if you wanted the extra measure (or data from the 1/8th that was removed), restoring it would be more difficult.
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Old 01-16-2015, 11:33 AM   #51
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I don't know if we are talking about the same thing
My bad. I thought you and maybe Justin were leaning toward the old official release Beats behavior. I'm OK with having to prepare the joints a bit.

Justin's gif is just what happens in Sibelius 6, up to the remove contents anyway. Doh.

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Old 01-16-2015, 06:24 PM   #52
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This is looking very good to me. The gaps between items don't bother me at all, indeed, this is how I expect it would work. And preserving the existing data is exactly the way to go. If I change from 4/4 to 7/8, I don't want an eighth beat shaved off my notes! Thanks!
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Old 01-17-2015, 12:16 AM   #53
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If you switch a measure from 4/4 to 7/8, it will need to either remove 1/8th, or add 6/8th. It chooses to do the latter (to avoid removing that missing bar) -- if you didn't want the extra measure, you can easily remove it. If we made it remove when necessary (which I'm not inclined to do), it would have removed an 8th and if you wanted the extra measure (or data from the 1/8th that was removed), restoring it would be more difficult.
Personally it wouldn't be a problem for me to have items truncated (as long as is not destructive), but I understand why many people aren't confortable with that.


My dream:

It would be great if we could have a new type of regions, let's call them "tempo regions": each region would be strictly connected to time signature, and when we extend the right border of the region, the time signature increases (4/4, 5/4, 6/4, if the grid snap is set to 1/4) adding the right space at the end of the measure; when dragging the right region border to the left, the time sig would decrease, truncating the items at the end...but if we change our mind, we have to just extend the region again, and the items content is restored!
This way it would be also more faster to change time signature, no need to click on a marker and type the text, we should just extend or reduce a region.
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Old 01-17-2015, 12:23 AM   #54
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Quote:
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My bad. I thought you and maybe Justin were leaning toward the old official release Beats behavior. I'm OK with having to prepare the joints a bit.
no problem :-)

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Justin's gif is just what happens in Sibelius 6, up to the remove contents anyway. Doh.
I haven't tried Sibelius, but on Musescore it works as I wrote above
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:33 PM   #55
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Bug? Nitpick?

Seems like track 3 behavior not consistent with "envelope points move with items."

What if there's no item? (edit-currently -pre7 -points move)


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Old 06-11-2015, 01:53 PM   #56
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Hi, not sure if this is the intended behaviour or a bug.

Cheers
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:13 PM   #57
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Hi, not sure if this is the intended behaviour or a bug.

Cheers
I don't think this is the intended behaviour, because you're losing all of your tempo changes, using a perfectly basic feature (moving a region). If you bring the region back at its original place, are the tempo changes restored?
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:17 PM   #58
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I don't think this is the intended behaviour, because you're losing all of your tempo changes, using a perfectly basic feature (moving a region). If you bring the region back at its original place, are the tempo changes restored?

Hi,

Can't remember which preference it is, I think its the project time base w respect to markers.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:24 PM   #59
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Two years later...

Regions still do not play nice with tempos changes and time signatures. I dare say that moving or copying of Regions is practically unusable when any tempo changes are nearby:

Examples of bugs in Regions vs tempos / time sigs:
Tempo marker on first beat of region does not move with region
When moving/copying region, part to right of new region loses time signature (duplicate report)
Moving regions drops multiple copies of existing tempo markers
When duplicating regions, grid ends up out of sync
Moving region across tempo change drops notes
Copying/moving regions causes tempo changes and time sigs to lose beat positions, even if timebase=beats, whether using linear or square tempo changes.


While the devs are in the mindframe of Automation Items, how about fixing some bugs in Regions too? (Regions are kinda like super-sized Automation Items, n'est-ce pas?)


Other tempo envelope and time signature bugs:
(Square tempo envelope point shape appears to be much safer to use than linear.)
Timebase: MIDI items desync when inserting time signatures
Timebase = Time does not apply to MIDI events inside items (with related FR here)
Cannot insert two envelope points at same time point
Gradual tempo changes: gridline display/snapping and envelope pasting issues
Inserting new tempo point changes value/shape of envelope and even creates weird new time signature
MIDI either exporting or importing tempo maps incorrectly
Insert empty space moves tempo markers off the grid

Last edited by juliansader; 04-26-2017 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:09 PM   #60
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Two years??? This needs (needed) fixing ASAP! This is a core function of any (serious) DAW.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:52 PM   #61
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I wonder how regions would cope with AI... have to do some test myself..

g
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:14 AM   #62
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Wishful thinking. I wouldn't hold your breath.
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Old 04-28-2017, 03:48 PM   #63
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Default tempo events as "list"

Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:

is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?

thanks!
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Old 04-29-2017, 06:42 AM   #64
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Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:

is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?

thanks!
Hi,
I think the marker list SHOULD show them.
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Old 04-29-2017, 11:22 AM   #65
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Hi,
I think the marker list SHOULD show them.
I agree, and I think you should be able to hide them also. If you do any complex tempo mapping the tempo markers can really clutter up the arrange view. You really only need to see them when you are editing/ working on mapping tempos....
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:17 PM   #66
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Tempo map in REAPER is broken, so why bother? (see above)
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Old 04-29-2017, 12:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
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Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:

is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?

thanks!
As far as I know, neither the native Region/Marker Manager, nor SWS's Marker List includes the tempo markers.

There is an old feature request that we would do well to revive.
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Old 04-29-2017, 01:44 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tusitala View Post
Hi guys, I couldn't find this with the search feature so i'll try asking it here:

is there a way of seeing tempo events as a list?

thanks!
Trust me, we all want it but it's yet to come. Tempo lists are found in more full-featured DAWs like Logic, etc.

One day though Reaper will get a Tempo List! Right after they clean up the VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: VSTi: nonsense in the FX browser. Lol. Cockos.

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Old 04-29-2017, 01:52 PM   #69
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Tempo map in REAPER is broken, so why bother? (see above)
Tempo mapping works just fine with SWS actions. It is regions that break tempo maps. Don't mix up the two.
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Old 04-29-2017, 02:13 PM   #70
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Tempo mapping works just fine with SWS actions. It is regions that break tempo maps. Don't mix up the two.
Not just regions trip up the tempo map…(see the list) Tempo mapping with SWS actions is extremely well implemented. That makes it a shame that more than a "static" tempo map (due to long standing bugs) is not possible in REAPER.

The time/beat config of tracks also gets mixed up after tempo mapping. That is not just fine IMHO.

Maybe hire an extra Dev. from SWS to figure this out?
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Old 08-20-2017, 01:31 PM   #71
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In order to properly move or copy regions -- specifically if the region begins or ends with linear tempo segments, or is moved/copied into a linear segment -- two points should be inserted at each edge point to preserve tempo envelope inside and outside region

REAPER can understand and use multiple tempo markers at the same time point, but the native actions for moving or copying Regions do not utilize this feature, resulting in changes in the tempo map inside and outside the Region:




As a demonstration that the tempo envelope can be properly preserved when moving or copying regions -- even when copying into a linear segment -- here is my own "Insert empty beats" script doing something similar:

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