Old 01-30-2015, 03:15 PM   #41
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Indeed!
I'm not a fan of bass reflex designs, as you might tell from the pics of my main monitors I posted at the beginning. Everything here that is for critical listening is based on the Acoustic Suspension design. The two bass cabinets in my mains are Crown ES212 boxes with 2x10" acoustic suspension drivers in each. The cabinets are HEAVY and solid as a rock. They are easily capable of rattling door knobs and windows from a 10Hz sine wave and not a tuned port in sight (or out of sight for that matter). I've done that numerous times in demonstrations for friends.

Their bass response is tight as a drum and you feel a sharp, solid punch from a well recorded kick drum that hits you in the chest when they are cranked up. The same recording produces a dull thud by comparison on most bass reflex designs.

Bass reflex designs nearly always sound flabby in comparison to sealed acoustic suspension designs and the waterfall plots for most of the monitors in the PDF that Ben posted reflect that.

Edit - There's a great link in that Wiki article that is well worth a read too:
http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/record.../villchur.html
Right now I've got some ported MTM speakers to mix on, but I'd like to get some acoustic suspensions. Not happy about the going price of NS-10s, and I don't mind no-name or off-brands, so can anyone recommend a mid-sized acoustic suspension type? Old home stereo types would be fine. . . .

BTW, thanks for pointing out that link--very cool reading about the development of the acoustic suspension speaker. Thanks Mr. Villchur!
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:38 PM   #42
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Thanks for the pics. Very interesting. Any idea where AKG sourced those?
I've read somewhere that they were 'Made in England' - but I have not the slightest idea where exactly.
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:42 PM   #43
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Surfing around, I came across these:

http://www.nhthifi.com/Bookshelf-spe...&category=3782

Fairly unusual, in that almost no one makes an AS speaker any more. Never heard of them, but on first glance they look quite good, and the price is almost too good. Not necessarily made for recording monitoring, but the random reviews on the web seem to imply that they're pretty accurate and uncolored. I wonder. . . .

EDIT: Found a frequency plot here: http://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf...Zero.jpg/image

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Old 01-30-2015, 06:36 PM   #44
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Default Auratone DIY

That plot cuts off at 200hz but it looks good to me.

And since no one else has posted it (I thought someone would eventually, but geez) there is always this nifty topic: Auratone DIY
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:05 AM   #45
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Right, the plot doesn't show the low end, but specs say the NHT Super One 2.1 goes down to 56Hz. Thanks for the DIY link, will check it out.

Apologies for sidetracking this thread. I'll start a new one on AS speakers or something, maybe if/when I get some.
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Old 01-31-2015, 11:29 AM   #46
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Not Auratones, but here's my 'Killatones' (or 'The speakers of hate' as they're known in the studio - sometimes also called 'Philatones, 'cos my mate Phil helped me build the boxes)







Here's one close up, next to one of 'the speakers of love'. I have them volume matched and a switch (and mono fold) on the monitor controller. When a mix is working well the switch between them is just like opening up the bottom octave, when it's not, you don't get the same sorta match up.







The sweet spot on the killatones is tiny, but also very sweet. Imaging is lovely along with everything else that's been said here about hearing in to the midrange. In general I've always really liked closed box speakers.
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Old 01-31-2015, 12:33 PM   #47
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....Edit: did have a PIC as not long ago got the cab- not v clear but is ok. Sits atop my corner slab with a clear run to my head..
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4lA...p=docslist_api
Nice work on the build.
That tweeter probably sounds smoother than the Yammy one anyway.

Is that your trumpet? Cool to see another brass player. Trumpet is actually the first instrument I learned to play. I'm a little rusty these days due to lack of practice though. The first thing to suffer is the embouchure and tone. But that would come back with some practice.
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BTW, thanks for pointing out that link--very cool reading about the development of the acoustic suspension speaker. Thanks Mr. Villchur!
Indeed! His contribution to the audio world is no small thing!
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...And since no one else has posted it (I thought someone would eventually, but geez) there is always this nifty topic: Auratone DIY
I remember seeing that topic recently but must take some time to have a more in depth look.
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...Apologies for sidetracking this thread. I'll start a new one on AS speakers or something, maybe if/when I get some.
No need for apologies. It's all closely related stuff and I don't mind the diversions.
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Not Auratones, but here's my 'Killatones' (or 'The speakers of hate' as they're known in the studio - sometimes also called 'Philatones, 'cos my mate Phil helped me build the boxes)

Here's one close up, next to one of 'the speakers of love'. I have them volume matched and a switch (and mono fold) on the monitor controller. When a mix is working well the switch between them is just like opening up the bottom octave, when it's not, you don't get the same sorta match up.


The sweet spot on the killatones is tiny, but also very sweet. Imaging is lovely along with everything else that's been said here about hearing in to the midrange. In general I've always really liked closed box speakers.
Another nice build. Thanks for the pics. Great to see the benefits of these types of monitors is alive and well along with the DIY spirit. Love the rope lights too.
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Old 01-31-2015, 06:50 PM   #48
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A point of interest ... at least ta me

How many are running Auratones with the grill cover ON ??

I don't know what it is with me ... but I've never like studio monitors having the grills on them. Maybe its' considered 'safe monitoring', but I like to listen to the naked truth

How 'bout anyone else ?
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Old 02-01-2015, 12:56 AM   #49
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A point of interest ... at least ta me

How many are running Auratones with the grill cover ON ??

I don't know what it is with me ... but I've never like studio monitors having the grills on them. Maybe its' considered 'safe monitoring', but I like to listen to the naked truth

How 'bout anyone else ?
I'm totally with you on that. None of my studio monitors have grille covers.
As for my Auratones, I don't even own the covers for them.
About the only place I've heard that grille covers can be an improvement is on NS10s. Apparently it does the same thing as adding tissue paper over the tweeter (which numerous engineers do).
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:48 AM   #50
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I'm totally with you on that. None of my studio monitors have grille covers.
As for my Auratones, I don't even own the covers for them.
About the only place I've heard that grille covers can be an improvement is on NS10s. Apparently it does the same thing as adding tissue paper over the tweeter (which numerous engineers do).
You've seen the measurement with the tissue paper on the NS-10 tweeters, Dave, haven't you? Phase anomalies all over the place (which is somehow apparent when you think about it). That said, I don't think Yamaha ever intended using grills on the NS-10 Studio. I'd love to hear it though The top end can get so annoying (as we all know).

Here: naked NS-10's, naked Tannoys, but I indeed use grills with my AKGtones. Why? I have no clue
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Old 02-01-2015, 05:43 PM   #51
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Fuglytones:

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Old 02-01-2015, 05:59 PM   #52
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Not Auratones, but here's my 'Killatones' (or 'The speakers of hate' as they're known in the studio - sometimes also called 'Philatones, 'cos my mate Phil helped me build the boxes)
I notice the drivers are not centered on the box face. I've built two pairs of Auratone copies now and never thought about anything other than centering the speakers because that's what I was copying. I suspect many of us wouldn't worry about this and would just centre them.

Were you specifically planning to affect diffraction in some specific way here or was the placement random?
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Old 02-01-2015, 06:06 PM   #53
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Great analysis of the NS10 and why it was thought to work so well here.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep0...yamahans10.htm
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Old 02-02-2015, 04:01 AM   #54
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I notice the drivers are not centered on the box face. I've built two pairs of Auratone copies now and never thought about anything other than centering the speakers because that's what I was copying. I suspect many of us wouldn't worry about this and would just centre them.

Were you specifically planning to affect diffraction in some specific way here or was the placement random?
They're not my design. I've got a newborn in the house so it was enough of a struggle to get the pics and post together, let alone remember to include all the details!

The Killatones are designed by Thomas Barefoot (the dude who does those amazing (and expensive) full range monitors - http://barefootsound.com/ ) you can see the details here: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...php?f=12&t=297 I understand the baffle design is something he's worked in to it (although to be honest I'm never completely sure I've got them the right way up!)

Mine are the 'upgraded' version with the FX120 drivers, which, once added together with some nice 'foo' components in the baffle step filter / xover means they were actually quite pricey to put together, but I wouldn't be without them now and actually quite enjoy listening to them.

As well as the midrange I find the image utterly compelling, folding a mix down to mono and back on them can be a real education in how complex mixes have been put together, where space has been eeked out and phase relationships have been played off.
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Old 02-02-2015, 04:30 AM   #55
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thanks rothchild. I'll go and have a look.
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Old 02-02-2015, 06:04 AM   #56
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Fuglytones:
Glad you said it ;-p

Is that polystyrene that you've lined the outside of them with?
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Old 02-02-2015, 12:24 PM   #57
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I've read somewhere that they were 'Made in England' - but I have not the slightest idea where exactly.
Goodmans. The driver seems to be a Goodmans 0M029.

And some believe in Studer speakers: ;-)

http://dibsreaction.com/the-old-studer-speaker-trick/

Here 's the Bheritone, the AKG and the original side-by-side:

https://evangelriclapore.wordpress.c...tone-together/

And here you'll find pics for most of the original Auratone family:

http://goedgeluid.be/Auratone-Sound-Cube.html
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Old 02-07-2015, 02:56 PM   #58
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Glad you said it ;-p

Is that polystyrene that you've lined the outside of them with?
Hah, no, I had some tile laying around that I glued to the outside half-heartedly to dampen the box more.
Less than $10 total, less than 1 hour construction - I didn't want to put effort into something that might prove to be worthless.

I don't think the speaker cares about what the box looks like, though.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:31 PM   #59
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And some believe in Studer speakers: ;-)
Dead link?

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Fatal error: Call to undefined function wp_get_current_user() in /home/mrdibs/dibsreaction.com/wp-includes/class-wp.php on line 529
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:08 AM   #60
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Dead link?
Yeah. Looks that way. I got the same error.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:18 AM   #61
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I recently contacted Auratone (http://www.auratonesoundcubes.com/) to inquire about some details of their 2014 model 5c's and got the following response from Alex:

Quote:
Hi David,

Thank you for your interest and kind words regarding the 5C. I apologize for the late response. Acoustically they were built to mimic the sound of the mid 80's versions of the Auratones, which was possibly the popular out of all the 5C's. I think you will be very happy with how they compare. Here is a recent review out of Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d55JylAHqDI

Regarding shipping we do ship to AU. Fee is 91 USD via USPS priority and 115 USD via Express(recommended). Total would be 380 USD or 404 USD respectively. Note that a price for a pair will be increased from 289 USD soon as this is an introductory price.

Let me know if you have anymore questions or are interested. Thanks!

Alex



On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 4:04 PM, David <xxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Auratone,

I am a sound engineer from Adelaide, South Australia and have been using Auratone 5c cubes in my studio for many years. I would find it very difficult mixing without them these days. Like many other engineers, I rely on them for their accuracy and honesty.

Anyway, I have four of them at present and have been on the lookout for another pair for a while now. However, I had no idea you were still in business until I came across your website via a Google search.
My plan is to set up 5.1 monitoring with 5c's.

The ones I have are either late 70s or 80s models and I am wondering how close to these your 2014 model is acoustically? They LOOK very similar, apart from the black face plate and the slightly different edge suspension.....

<snip>

....Lastly, do you ship to Australia? If so, how much would a pair cost me including shipping?


Kind regards,
David.
www.synthesizers.audio
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:12 PM   #62
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Dead link?
Seems his Wordpress install doesn't like so many visitors ;-)

I suppose it'll be back some day.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:58 AM   #63
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Seems his Wordpress install doesn't like so many visitors ;-)

I suppose it'll be back some day.
Don't know about it being a visitors thing. I'm still getting the same error. Seems to be a database corruption to me.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:13 PM   #64
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This particular error points to another Wordpress installation that got owned...

It's even very likely the owner doesn't notice, because the admin pages are not affected and if you view public pages from the admin console, they just work. So if the owner doesn't wonder where the visitors went, it might take a long time before he gets it.

I've tried sending mail, but that bounces...
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:21 PM   #65
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Got noone else to tell who won't glaze over, but my single NS-10 is now officially bona Fide and complete, got hold of a tweeter the other day to finish the job.


New woofer was £70, then got old cab + crossover £40, now used tweet £20.

Took a while but pleased and yes its pretty bright now! But as a mono ref I can accurately compare mixes to reference tracks and they definitely respond to the smallest of eq tweaks and don't hold any punches. Kind of cool to have one as well of course.
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Old 01-04-2016, 08:42 PM   #66
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Small update. I just placed an order for three more Auratones from Alex to make up a full 7.1 surround setup based on 5c cubes. I'm looking forward to receiving them and comparing the new models to my original 80s models. I'll post my thoughts here when the new ones arrive.

The plan is to use the three new ones across the front (L, C, R) and the original 80s ones for the four surround channels. Subs are my Crown ES212s.
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:42 AM   #67
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Another update. My new Auratones arrived yesterday which was actually very fast shipping (it took seven days from USA to Australia).
I've set up one of them and done a quick listening test and the new model has a different frequency response in the upper mids but they have the same tight transient response and the low end and low mids are very similar.
The old model I am comparing them to is an early 80s version.

The new ones have the same size driver but the outer suspension area is slightly smaller giving them a slightly larger overall cone area which I'm suspecting is responsible for the upper mid frequency variation.

I have to say that initially I didn't like this change from the response of my old ones but that is because I am accustomed to their sound. Upon further listening, I'm actually liking what I am hearing from the new ones.
I also suspect that when I add the ribbon tweeters to the new ones, they will probably match much more closely.

I'll post more after I've done some lab measurements and further listening tests with the ribbon tweeters.

One thing I will say is that the finish and build quality of the new ones is first class. The boxes are the same width and height as my originals but the new ones are slightly deeper.

More to come....
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Old 01-23-2016, 06:50 AM   #68
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Got noone else to tell who won't glaze over, but my single NS-10 is now officially bona Fide and complete, got hold of a tweeter the other day to finish the job.


New woofer was £70, then got old cab + crossover £40, now used tweet £20.

Took a while but pleased and yes its pretty bright now! But as a mono ref I can accurately compare mixes to reference tracks and they definitely respond to the smallest of eq tweaks and don't hold any punches. Kind of cool to have one as well of course.
Considering it has been a few months, I'm curious to know how your NS10 is working out for you now that you've had more time with it?
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Old 06-05-2016, 08:16 AM   #69
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After using my new Auratones alongside the originals now for around six months, I've come to a point where I am VERY happy with them. The three new ones are now my L, C and R channels and the four original 80s ones are the surround channels.

I've also been running them without the ribbon tweeters and am using EQ compensation for their HF rolloff, for smoothing the midrange peaks Auratones have by default and the midrange differences between the old and new ones and they sound pretty much identical now.

The whole system is running with a subwoofer for a smooth response down to around 15 - 20Hz. I'm using RME TotalMix FX for the EQ and bass management tasks. My Yamaha RXV1800 is doing all the time alignment for both the subwoofer and the Auratones.

If anyone is interested in the EQ settings I've come up with to give an audibly smooth response without any nasty peaks and dips, here's a screenshot of my RME settings. These might not match perfectly using other EQs but they should get you in the ballpark.

The Front EQ is the new Auratones and the Surround EQ is the 80s models.
*Disable the low cut filter if you are running Auratones full range. I have this enabled simply to avoid wasting amplifier power in a range the Auratones are not contributing to in my configuration.


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Old 06-05-2016, 10:07 AM   #70
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In two words, "acoustic suspension."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_suspension)


PS: As opposed to "ported" or "bass reflex."

The absence of filtering tends to halp a bit too, imho.
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:10 PM   #71
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Considering it has been a few months, I'm curious to know how your NS10 is working out for you now that you've had more time with it?
Missed this one..

Yeh a definite worthy addition and tool, not really used in creative or recording stages but when late stages of a mix you need to pass a magnifying glass over a part or whole mix at mastering Time, it comes into use then for sure..

As it happens my one aging behri monitor is having a seemingly common power stage issue and coming in and out of life, so new mons may be in the offing, I guess you mix only in part with the auratones? And of course us sub, extra tweets and eq compensation.

I may just order new board for mine not sure I will gain much mix wise with even the snazziest monitors except a sense of newness, and tbf they are not cheap thing
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:07 AM   #72
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Missed this one..

Yeh a definite worthy addition and tool, not really used in creative or recording stages but when late stages of a mix you need to pass a magnifying glass over a part or whole mix at mastering Time, it comes into use then for sure..
Anything that can help you hone in on critical areas is going to be very useful.
I remember the first time I heard NS10s I hated them!!! Someone had a pair of them on location at a live gig I was involved with connected to their early ProTools system (we were broadcasting the performances and I was one of the cameramen). My initial reaction was that they sounded harsh, lacked bass and didn't sound at all pleasing....
I was very green back then! That was 1/4 of a century ago and I had no idea of the value of such critical monitors!! Things are very different now though and it took some time for me to realise their true value.
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As it happens my one aging behri monitor is having a seemingly common power stage issue and coming in and out of life, so new mons may be in the offing, I guess you mix only in part with the auratones? And of course us sub, extra tweets and eq compensation.

I may just order new board for mine not sure I will gain much mix wise with even the snazziest monitors except a sense of newness, and tbf they are not cheap thing
That sounds to me like it might just be dry solder joints. If you are handy with a soldering iron, I'd be checking around the input jack connectors, the output power transistors and anything in the power supply that gets hot.

I'm actually using my Auratones as my main monitors and have been for a number of years. Since setting everything up again in my new studio space, I have adjusted the EQ compensation settings (see my post a few up from this) and don't need to run the tweeters at all. I do still run the sub though.
To my ears, the Auratones with the EQ compensation and time alignment are very hard to beat for critical mixing and even general listening pleasure. Everyone who has heard them says the same thing, even a friend who owns a pair of B&W 801 Diamonds!!!
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Old 07-23-2016, 09:35 PM   #73
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Here's an interesting review on the new 5C cubes I just came across.
http://tapeop.com/reviews/gear/111/5...-cube-speaker/

I'm looking at purchasing another new one (that'll give me four new ones and four old ones) and setting up a 3D cube array of 5Cs for Ambisonic mixing.
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Old 09-21-2016, 06:43 PM   #74
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They don't call them "Awful Tones" for nothing!
If your mixing for a 1950's ford back seat, they are about perfect.

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Old 10-20-2016, 01:43 PM   #75
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They don't call them "Awful Tones" for nothing!
If your mixing for a 1950's ford back seat, they are about perfect.
Err... Many people would strongly disagree with you. In my experience, there's nothing awful sounding about them at all. I've been using them as my main monitors now for many years and so too have many engineers with far greater credits to their name than me.
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Old 01-10-2017, 03:03 PM   #76
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I need somewhere to say i juut received some avantone mixcubes (passive) and from early breaking checks in a living room I am rather excited..

Prob going to feed them with trusty old pioneer a400

Even via the cheap t class thing was using earlier Elvis literally seemed to be 'over there' in a way I not heard v often if at all.

My idea for extended bass checks is feeding a low passed mono sum to my one good b3021a which goes deep enough, got to balance that all out level-wise of course but hopefully a one time deal..

Yay.

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Old 01-10-2017, 05:35 PM   #77
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I didn't know Avantone made a passive version Ben. Sounds like they've nailed the imaging though. That's one of the first things I noticed about Auratones when I started using them.
I think I mentioned it early on in this thread but when something is panned to the middle, it actually sounds like there's a third speaker there.

Keen to hear how your LF extension experiments go too.
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Old 01-10-2017, 05:47 PM   #78
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I didn't know Avantone made a passive version Ben. Sounds like they've nailed the imaging though. That's one of the first things I noticed about Auratones when I started using them.
I think I mentioned it early on in this thread but when something is panned to the middle, it actually sounds like there's a third speaker there.
Keen to hear how your LF extension experiments go too.
Yes, looked at active initially then plumped for passives. there was some strange offer on single passives thus that ordering two singles was far cheaper than ordering a 'pair'! Worked out tho.

Definitely snappy as hell, some material harsh or fatiguing but that's likely the materials fault.

Also with some quick test tones they rumbling away at 40hz, not V loudly but it's there.
+ Although you love your auratones, these even in black are lovely looking objects.

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Old 01-14-2017, 03:26 AM   #79
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Yes, looked at active initially then plumped for passives. there was some strange offer on single passives thus that ordering two singles was far cheaper than ordering a 'pair'! Worked out tho.

Definitely snappy as hell, some material harsh or fatiguing but that's likely the materials fault.

Also with some quick test tones they rumbling away at 40hz, not V loudly but it's there.
+ Although you love your auratones, these even in black are lovely looking objects.
Cool stuff Ben, especially on the purchase deal.
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Old 01-17-2017, 06:50 PM   #80
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mixcubes now in situ & bedding in fed by their new/old friends pioneer a400 and rme babyface..

The initial harshness has faded a bit, and have decided that with a healthy boost on the bottom end, courtesy of the revelatory totalmix there's enough (quality) bass info there for most situations and sounds far more pleasing/natural.

Don't need any help up top, hi end V crisp.

Hopefully soon the setup faff is all sorted so can get going on a 'my stuff' EP/album of 'where I am at' which having just made public must happen in a Timely manner

In conclusion: everything sounds detailed and dynamic & tight, reverbs stick out a mile, voices sound as if they are in the room with me. Great for mixing.
My guess is that applies to any well crafted auratone like setup.

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