Old 02-20-2016, 11:08 AM   #81
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juracán View Post
Also, I saw someone's signature said Go Bernie Sanders. Good fucking job!
Hell yea, go Bernie Sanders! It is way past time for things to turn around in the U.S.

On the beginner synth thing, I really do think that a modular synth would be a great place to begin, but I don't know of a good modular softsynth for a beginner. I say that because a modular synth can be as simple as a single oscillator being turned on by incoming MIDI and amplified to the output, without any other distractions, building from there. Something modular like Sonigen could work well, if it had deeper connectivity options (I think noise-addict mentioned cv and gate), a more intuitive routing implementation (like u-he ace, where you drag n drop cables), and better sound quality (it's ok, but not great). But I think that a beginner synth shouldn't have anything exotic.

I think someone in this thread mentioned that a beginner synth should sound good, and I agree. The better the components of a synth sound, the easier it is to put together nice sounding patches, and the more likely you are to put alot of time into playing with it.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.

Last edited by brainwreck; 02-20-2016 at 11:16 AM.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 11:14 AM   #82
dea-man
Human being with feelings
 
dea-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,047
Default Best synth to learn synthetisis on?

Whichever synth is in front of you, at any given moment.
__________________
Please check out my REAPER produced music here: http://soundcloud.com/dea-man
dea-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 11:19 AM   #83
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
Whichever synth is in front of you, at any given moment.
I don't know that I would agree with that. Some synths don't sound good, some have terrible interfaces, some have exotic features, etc. I think that alot of people who run into these kinds of issues are likely to abandon synthesis, either thinking that it is too complicated, or after synth hopping because of low quality sound.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 03:33 PM   #84
msundh
Human being with feelings
 
msundh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,184
Default

I suck in synth programming and when it comes to presets it seems to be all PADs, not playable lead sounds. If you don't play house, dance or any other synth based music styles you're f*ked when it comes to presets.
I bought synthmaster and there are a few (few) presets that I can use. The rest is PADs.
I would think that those guys who are into this kind of music don't need presets. It is the OTHER GUYS who needs it.
__________________
Win10 64bit, Core i7 16GB, Focurite 18i8, Schecter Telecaster, Yamaha AC3R
https://soundcloud.com/mikaelsundh
msundh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 03:54 PM   #85
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msundh View Post
I suck in synth programming and when it comes to presets it seems to be all PADs, not playable lead sounds. If you don't play house, dance or any other synth based music styles you're f*ked when it comes to presets.
I bought synthmaster and there are a few (few) presets that I can use. The rest is PADs.
I would think that those guys who are into this kind of music don't need presets. It is the OTHER GUYS who needs it.
Whether it's hardware or software, anyone who is into any style of music has to gain an understanding of their instrument.

I's like saying that electric guitars are rubbish because the pickup selector positions don't have descriptive labels printed next to them. You play around with instruments until you get good at using them, and that's the way it's always been.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 05:20 PM   #86
msundh
Human being with feelings
 
msundh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,184
Default

Synth's are not rubbish. I'm just amazed about the type of presets that's being sold.
If you compare guitar with synth the 'create sound' part is vastly bigger in synths than guitar.
It is common the kind of argument 'if you're not a real synth/guitar player bug off'. I don't buy that, it's pure bullshit.
__________________
Win10 64bit, Core i7 16GB, Focurite 18i8, Schecter Telecaster, Yamaha AC3R
https://soundcloud.com/mikaelsundh
msundh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 06:15 PM   #87
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 10,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post

I think someone in this thread mentioned that a beginner synth should sound good, and I agree.
I don't agree. A beginner synth's main function is for people to learn the basics.
There's nothing to stop a beginner from having a few "good sounding" synths as well as a really basic synth as a learning tool.

Of course it would be an added extra for it to sound good, but developers might not leave "good sounding" synths as basic learner devices with basic looks and no "extra features". And what's available in very basic VSTis probably proves that point - there don't seem to be many (if any) really basic great sounding synths out there to choose from.

No-one who's serious about learning should need a learner synth that sounds "good" just to keep their interest - they can have those in addition to the basic synth.

It's a bit like saying learner drivers would learn best in BMWs ... because they get put off by very basic unexciting slower cars which aren't a pleasure to drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Some synths don't sound good, some have terrible interfaces, some have exotic features, etc. I think that alot of people who run into these kinds of issues are likely to abandon synthesis, either thinking that it is too complicated, or after synth hopping because of low quality sound.
I think that "too complicated" is by far the biggest issue (which would include confusing interfaces).

Poor sound quality probably compounds the turn-off when added to complex and confusing interfaces, rather than being a huge issue in itself on very basic and clear learner synths.

But surely no-one ever gave up learning synthesis because their basic and clear learning tool didn't sound "good"? Just like no-one likely ever gave up on learning to drive because their learner car wasn't sophisticated or exciting enough.
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 06:33 PM   #88
sostenuto
Human being with feelings
 
sostenuto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,296
Default

Individuals learn very differently and one great way to learn is thru Presets.
How about those Synths which offer huge numbers of free/low cost presets, especially those covering most categories ? My choices would include Massive and Spire. Why force new users through boring and tedious learning, like failed school systems, when they can have early enjoyment and still learn from capable use of settings for very different mainstream sounds.

My inventory is fairly large, yet surely not as large as many Reaperites. It is routinely enjoyable to visit many of these Synths to find creative presets and then analyze Settings used.

My latest list includes Omnisphere 2, Spire, Hybrid3, Absynth5, Massive, PG-8X, and many choices in Kontakt5 and Reaktor6_(Razor).
sostenuto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 06:52 PM   #89
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 10,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sostenuto View Post
My choices would include Massive and Spire. Why force new users through boring and tedious learning, like failed school systems, when they can have early enjoyment and still learn from capable use of settings for very different mainstream sounds.
First of all Massive and Spire cost money.

Secondly, they're not ideal learner tools because they're over-complex for quickly understanding the basics.

Opening up a complex and (free or expensive) soft-synth and noodling around is probably the commonest experience of people who end up never understanding the basics.

Of course it works for some, but it's far from ideal for learners.

Again, there's nothing to stop a learner from having a really basic free easy to understand synth AND Massive, Spire, Zebra, Omnisphere etc etc as well.

Quote:
My inventory is fairly large, yet surely not as large as many Reaperites. It is routinely enjoyable to visit many of these Synths to find creative presets and then analyze Settings used.

My latest list includes Omnisphere 2, Spire, Hybrid3, Absynth5, Massive, PG-8X, and many choices in Kontakt5 and Reaktor6_(Razor).
That's nice - but irrelevant to the OP who asked for something to learn on.
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 06:57 PM   #90
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 10,129
Default

Here's xoxos Clearsynth, followed by Massive and Spire.

Aside from the bonus that Clearsynth is free, are there any slight clues as to which would be easiest for a learner to understand?





viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 08:20 PM   #91
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

To the original poster: The topic of this thread is a good one.

viscofisy: I think the concept of Clearsynth - a simple synth for students - is a good one. Taking a quick look, it has 2 oscillators with all the basic wave shapes, a few filter types, a modulation source, 2 envelopes, some basic expression options, and a clean gui.

But there are a few things that I don't like about it as a synth for beginners. It doesn't have a manual. It doesn't allow for removing the training wheels, being a very simple fixed synth. It doesn't indicate internal connections in the gui. It could really use a noise source (for snares, cymbals, etc.), unison (even if only a few voices, for making richer patches), and maybe even some modest effects such as distortion, chorus, and delay.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 08:23 PM   #92
sostenuto
Human being with feelings
 
sostenuto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,296
Default

No problem ... OP did not mention free or very low cost.

I can look at either Massive or Spire, select a Bass, or Lead, or Pad, check the Settings, pick another, hear the difference, see what Settings changed.
For me it's as valid a way to learn as others.

Nice Manuals too ........
sostenuto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 09:08 PM   #93
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 10,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sostenuto View Post
No problem ... OP did not mention free or very low cost.

I can look at either Massive or Spire, select a Bass, or Lead, or Pad, check the Settings, pick another, hear the difference, see what Settings changed.
For me it's as valid a way to learn as others.

Nice Manuals too ........
Yeah, maybe it works for some people, but there are so many settings that it's difficult for a learner to take in everything that goes into making a sound. For example, even if the difference between two bass sounds is only a filter setting ... that says nothing about all of the other components and why they make the sound they do. So all you really learn is that a filter setting has changed without understanding the underlying structure.

Like I said, if the OP wants to spend over €100 each trying out synths then it doesn't hurt to also download a free and simple synth too.
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2016, 09:45 PM   #94
sramsay
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 26
Default

I like many of the suggestions in this thread (especially Syntorial), but I think it all just highlights the need for a synth that is truly designed for beginners. The only attempt I've really seen at this is Audio Damage's Basic, but to be honest, I think even that one is a bit too confusing.

If I were going to design a beginner synth, it would have a few things:

1. Absolutely clear routing at all times, with some indication of the difference between audio rate and control rate. I mean like big arrows saying "this is feeding into (or controlling) this."

2. Lots of metering. Anything that can help people to visualize the state of the signal at various stages.

3. Some kind of scaffolding where you start out with just a few components and gradually add more. I don't mean a modular setup, but something between the approach that syntorial takes and a kind of "skinnable" synth where certain components are greyed out in certain configurations (maybe).

4. Very generic presets that do common things and are purposely designed to be "deconstructed" by the learner.

In some sense, this is all just turning up the gas on some of the things we appreciate in the UIs for the synths we admire. It would be overkill anyone who already knows how to program a synth, but a godsend for someone who doesn't.
sramsay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 02:12 AM   #95
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msundh View Post
Synth's are not rubbish. I'm just amazed about the type of presets that's being sold.
If you compare guitar with synth the 'create sound' part is vastly bigger in synths than guitar.
It is common the kind of argument 'if you're not a real synth/guitar player bug off'. I don't buy that, it's pure bullshit.
I'm not telling anyone to "bug off"!

I guess there is a market for presets, as a lot of people are selling them. I just think that learning how to use an instrument is part of the process of making music. That doesn't mean you have to be an amazing keyboard player (I'm not!), but even when picking through presets it's useful to know what the difference between "sawtooth detuned" and "square PWM pad" is.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 05:05 AM   #96
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Something modular like Sonigen could work well, if it had deeper connectivity options (I think noise-addict mentioned cv and gate), a more intuitive routing implementation (like u-he ace, where you drag n drop cables), and better sound quality (it's ok, but not great). But I think that a beginner synth shouldn't have anything exotic.
If going modular route ACE would be my first recommendation, if the user has a decent powerful PC, and doesn't mind spending money:

U-HE ACE has great sound but could look overwhelming at first. Of course it sounds better than Sonigen, albeit at much higher cost to CPU; and wallet obviously!
The GUI can be blown up to full screen so it is very easy to clearly see what you are connecting.
It has a good descriptive manual with explanations. Terms that will help a beginner:
http://www.u-he.com/downloads/ACE/ACE_Guide.pdf

It has extensive YouTube tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=u-he+ace
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 05:12 AM   #97
ReaDave
Human being with feelings
 
ReaDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (originally from Geelong)
Posts: 4,813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
If going modular route ACE would be my first recommendation, if the user has a decent powerful PC, and doesn't mind spending money:
I haven't read all the posts here but I'll add a +1 to ACE. It is simple enough to get a grasp on the basics but also has enough depth to create some seriously useful patches.

I started my journey into synthesizers and electronic music in the early 80s with a then brand new Roland Juno 6. I still have a Juno 6 (and a 106) in my keyboard rig today. They are basic synths as far as functionality is concerned but are very useful with a wide palette of sonic capability.
ReaDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 06:11 AM   #98
viscofisy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Dalriada
Posts: 10,129
Default

I think a lot of you must be so familiar with synths that you overlook the difficulties for beginners!

I'm not so familiar with them as they never interested me until relatively recently, but I know the basics.

Still, it surprises me that Uhe ACE is considered by anyone as a good learner synth.

The OP ask for "a baby synth, one that wasn't overwhelming" and said that Massive patches gave him a headache.

I'd regard ACE as a slightly intimidating second or third step even after becoming familiar with synth basics :



I'd say starting with Syntorial and Clearsynth maybe followed by Charlatan or one of the TAL synths would be much more coherent, but I gather lots of you learned by going in at the deep end. How many failed by that method would be more interesting to discover.
viscofisy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 06:43 AM   #99
ReaDave
Human being with feelings
 
ReaDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (originally from Geelong)
Posts: 4,813
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
I think a lot of you must be so familiar with synths that you overlook the difficulties for beginners!

I'm not so familiar with them as they never interested me until relatively recently, but I know the basics.

Still, it surprises me that Uhe ACE is considered by anyone as a good learner synth.

The OP ask for "a baby synth, one that wasn't overwhelming" and said that Massive patches gave him a headache.

I'd regard ACE as a slightly intimidating second or third step even after becoming familiar with synth basics :

I'd say starting with Syntorial and Clearsynth maybe followed by Charlatan or one of the TAL synths would be much more coherent, but I gather lots of you learned by going in at the deep end. How many failed by that method would be more interesting to discover.
Fair call. I was just going by my memory recalling the ACE interface and remember it being quite basic. I don't actually use ACE myself (it's the only u-he synth I haven't purchased mainly because my System 100 covers all those bases).
Upon relooking the interface, although it is laid out in basic building blocks, each of those blocks have many parameters that could easily be overwhelming to a newcomer to analog synthesis.

As I mentioned above, my beginnings three decades ago were with a Roland Juno 6 which is a lot more basic than ACE.
ReaDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 07:43 AM   #100
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
If going modular route ACE would be my first recommendation, if the user has a decent powerful PC, and doesn't mind spending money:

U-HE ACE has great sound but could look overwhelming at first. Of course it sounds better than Sonigen, albeit at much higher cost to CPU; and wallet obviously!
The GUI can be blown up to full screen so it is very easy to clearly see what you are connecting.
It has a good descriptive manual with explanations. Terms that will help a beginner:
http://www.u-he.com/downloads/ACE/ACE_Guide.pdf

It has extensive YouTube tutorials
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=u-he+ace
I think ACE is a very cool va synth. It sounds really good (I haven't heard a better va synth), covers alot of ground, is very flexible (interchangeable lfo's and oscillators, as one example), has a nice interface, and it isn't too expensive.

But I don't think it would be a good beginner synth without plenty of hand-holding from someone more experienced with synthesis. Also, the manual and those youtube tutorials aren't well-targeted at beginners to synthesis.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 07:55 AM   #101
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
Fair call. I was just going by my memory recalling the ACE interface and remember it being quite basic. I don't actually use ACE myself (it's the only u-he synth I haven't purchased mainly because my System 100 covers all those bases).
Upon relooking the interface, although it is laid out in basic building blocks, each of those blocks have many parameters that could easily be overwhelming to a newcomer to analog synthesis.

As I mentioned above, my beginnings three decades ago were with a Roland Juno 6 which is a lot more basic than ACE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
I think ACE is a very cool va synth. It sounds really good (I haven't heard a better va synth), covers alot of ground, is very flexible (interchangeable lfo's and oscillators, as one example), has a nice interface, and it isn't too expensive.

But I don't think it would be a good beginner synth without plenty of hand-holding from someone more experienced with synthesis. Also, the manual and those youtube tutorials aren't well-targeted at beginners to synthesis.
I only recommend ACE if insisting on going modular. It is a very well documented product, as outlined above. As I stated before I would not recommend any existing software modular (that I am aware of) as a starting position.
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 07:57 AM   #102
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by viscofisy View Post
The OP ask for "a baby synth, one that wasn't overwhelming" and said that Massive patches gave him a headache.
I would say that ACE probably isn't too far behind Massive in the area of beginner (non)friendliness. If you know the basics of synthesis, ACE looks pretty straightforward at a quick glance, but there is actually quite a bit of functionality and flexibility going on there that raises alot of questions. With a manual and video series better targeted at beginners (going from the very basics of synthesis on up), I could see it being a solid choice for a beginner.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 08:03 AM   #103
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
As I stated before I would not recommend any existing software modular (that I am aware of) as a starting position.
I think that some type of modular synth would be ideal for beginner use, because you get to see how everything is routed and works together, but I agree with you that there aren't any solid modular choices for absolute beginners (that I am aware of).
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 08:10 AM   #104
msundh
Human being with feelings
 
msundh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,184
Default

I totally suck at synths and the easiest for me to create sounds was Purple
__________________
Win10 64bit, Core i7 16GB, Focurite 18i8, Schecter Telecaster, Yamaha AC3R
https://soundcloud.com/mikaelsundh
msundh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 08:27 AM   #105
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
I would say that ACE probably isn't too far behind Massive in the area of beginner (non)friendliness. If you know the basics of synthesis, ACE looks pretty straightforward at a quick glance, but there is actually quite a bit of functionality and flexibility going on there that raises alot of questions. With a manual and video series better targeted at beginners (going from the very basics of synthesis on up), I could see it being a solid choice for a beginner.
I think it is probably actually easier for beginners to make patches in Massive than Ace, if they like that wavetable sound.
Massive is actually fairly simple, there is just a lot of it, which will look intimidating to a beginner.
ACE and Massive are vastly more complex (in different ways) than the typical basic classic poly VA options already discussed in this thread. Simple VA copies are almost certainly the best option to start with, as discussed.

Retrologue 2 demo could be a good place to start for a near beginner, after spending a few hours getting to know something like Clearsynth. Two months free trial, no annoying trial product noises, just full synth for evaluation.
http://www.steinberg.net/en/products...gue/start.html

Ultra analog Session is another basic (CPU friendly) decent simple synth that could be good to learn on. You can get it as part of a package with entry level Korg MIDI keyboards (or at least you could do - worth checking):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbGLWqAS6f0
Then when the sales come along upgrade this to full version.

Lots of soft synths have free trial periods so it would be easy to use a synth then move onto another retail synth and eventually buy some of the ones you like. That way you also get to hear what retail synths can do and learn different elements of synthesis too.

Last edited by Softsynth; 02-21-2016 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Clarification.
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 09:47 AM   #106
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
ACE and Massive are vastly more complex (in different ways) than the typical basic classic poly VA options already discussed in this thread. Simple VA copies are almost certainly the best option to start with, as discussed. .
That is one reason why I'm thinking that a fully modular envrionment would be good for a beginner, because in fixed synths (and semi-modulars), the simpler synths often don't have enough features to grow into, and the more complex synths have so much going on in the interface that it can be daunting to even look at. With a fully modular, you can start as simple as you want and build up to something as complex as you want, arriving at a synth (or synths) that works well for you personally, all the while learning more about synthesis than a bunch of fixed synths can offer. Plus you don't have to find (and probably buy) a new va synth, a wavetable synth, etc., when you want to experiment with different features and types of synthesis.

I see that Reaktor added a blocks feature in the last version, which might make the modular approach much more user friendly for beginners. In a fully modular environment, you can still begin from a basic va configuration, but after getting a handle on that, the sky is the limit.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.

Last edited by brainwreck; 02-21-2016 at 10:08 AM.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 10:25 AM   #107
jshonuff
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alma Mare View Post
Howdy o/

I'm mostly a rock/metal guy who's been perfectly happy so far recording with amp sims and basic mixing tools (EQ, comp, reverb). I've been getting curious about synths lately and I'm a bit tired of being dumbfounded everytime I look at those interfaces with all the ADSHR and LFO and filters and shit. A screenshot of a Massive patch gives me a migraine :P

I kind of understand the very basics (start with a wave and modulate its parameters with other waves) but I'm looking for a synth that would allow me to try out the different approaches, tools and types of modulation in a logic manner. Baby's first synth, if you will. Something not too overwhelming.

What would you guys recommend? Thanks!
Basic Audio Damage
http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/p....php?pid=AD033
jshonuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 10:42 AM   #108
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
That is one reason why I'm thinking that a fully modular envrionment would be good for a beginner, because in fixed synths (and semi-modulars), the simpler synths often don't have enough features to grow into, and the more complex synths have so much going on in the interface that it can be daunting to even look at. With a fully modular, you can start as simple as you want and build up to something as complex as you want, arriving at a synth (or synths) that works well for you personally, all the while learning more about synthesis than a bunch of fixed synths can offer. Plus you don't have to find (and probably buy) a new va synth, a wavetable synth, etc., when you want to experiment with different features and types of synthesis.

I see that Reaktor added a blocks feature in the last version, which might make the modular approach much more user friendly for beginners. In a fully modular environment, you can still begin from a basic va configuration, but after getting a handle on that, the sky is the limit.
Yes, you do not have to buy. I was the first to respond in this thread. I recommended a freebie.

Regarding modular synths I agree in some respects but neither of us know to an ideal modular soft synth for this purpose. Also I do not think it is necessary for what most musicians want.

I did research into Reaktor 6 when answering in this thread. I decided not to mention it. It really isn't suitable for a beginner. ACE is much, MUCH better at catering for the novice with lots to watch on Youtube and read in the manual and it still isn't ideal for a total synth novice.

Reaktor (even in it's latest incarnation) is apparently not well documented for the layman.
It is a great option for anybody deep into synthesis that wants to build their own but it wouldn't be an ideal go to tool to learn the basics of synthesis.
It's one thing knowing how to make some patches. Entirely another thing to know the ins and outs of a synth like a techie synth nerd.
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 11:05 AM   #109
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Softsynth View Post
Yes, you do not have to buy. I was the first to respond in this thread. I recommended a freebie.

Regarding modular synths I agree in some respects but neither of us know to an ideal modular soft synth for this purpose. Also I do not think it is necessary for what most musicians want.

I did research into Reaktor 6 when answering in this thread. I decided not to mention it. It really isn't suitable for a beginner. ACE is much, MUCH better at catering for the novice with lots to watch on Youtube and read in the manual and it still isn't ideal for a total synth novice.

Reaktor (even in it's latest incarnation) is apparently not well documented for the layman.
It is a great option for anybody deep into synthesis that wants to build their own but it wouldn't be an ideal go to tool to learn the basics of synthesis.
It's one thing knowing how to make some patches. Entirely another thing to know the ins and outs of a synth like a techie synth nerd.
Good points. I saw something about the Reaktor blocks thing, and it looked relevant to this thread. But I haven't used Reaktor, and I don't know much about it on the whole. Also, I just saw that it is monophonic unless using a workaround. That seems...less than ideal. And if it isn't well documented, no way would it be good for a beginner.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 11:36 AM   #110
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,332
Default

Somewhat off topic now: Lots of great pre built synths & effects for Reaktor. Many decent freebies (which you can learn from). I got Reaktor 5 as part of the Komplete 8 package. Komplete is much better value.

No doubt Reaktor 6 will be part of the upgrade to Komplete 11. Hopefully out this year.

If you are into freebies the initial layout for Komplete or even Reaktor alone makes it decent value.
User libraries:
http://www.native-instruments.com/en...-user-library/
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 11:49 AM   #111
dea-man
Human being with feelings
 
dea-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,047
Default A little off topic but a valid question nonetheless......

Is Reaktor 6 a complete makover of Reaktor 5, or does Reaktor 6 just overwrite 5 and you can still use all the older stuff from before 6, as well?

In other words, are Reaktor 5 and 6 two completely different creatures, or do they still work together?

Am I making any sense at all?
__________________
Please check out my REAPER produced music here: http://soundcloud.com/dea-man
dea-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 12:00 PM   #112
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
Is Reaktor 6 a complete makover of Reaktor 5, or does Reaktor 6 just overwrite 5 and you can still use all the older stuff from before 6, as well?

In other words, are Reaktor 5 and 6 two completely different creatures, or do they still work together?

Am I making any sense at all?
Reaktor 5 programs work in Reaktor 6.

You can have Reaktor 5 (full version) and Reaktor 6 "Player" (that's the freebie Reaktor) on the same machine. You should still open your Reaktor 5 programs in Reaktor 5 (rather than 6 "player") in order to get full Reaktor functionality .

If you have the retail version of Reaktor 6 then you would just use that one for all of it.
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 12:04 PM   #113
sostenuto
Human being with feelings
 
sostenuto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,296
Default

(edit) sorry Softsynth __ posting same time ..

Just 'parroting' info from NI and others' posts; but I questioned this when adding Reaktor6 after getting Komplete10 w/Reaktor5 included (I wanted Razor).

Doesn't address your question as you stated it; but NI Community suggested:
1) can readily keep and run both with no issue.
2) no need to retain Reaktor5 in addition, unless some old and critical projects which might be incompatible with Reaktor6 ??
sostenuto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 01:22 PM   #114
dea-man
Human being with feelings
 
dea-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,047
Default

OK, thanks Softsynth and Sostenuto!
__________________
Please check out my REAPER produced music here: http://soundcloud.com/dea-man
dea-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 02:11 PM   #115
V'ger
Human being with feelings
 
V'ger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Btw, something that I don't see on any of the synths mentioned in this thread is some indication in the gui of how the parts are routed, which is something that experienced synth users take for granted. Knowing how a synth is routed is helpful in understanding how the parts work together. Even in a daw, understanding routing seems to be a major beginner hurdle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alma Mare View Post
This. So much this. Especially the bolded part. I'm less concerned with the quality of the sounds at this point than being able to understand what exactly am I doing to the sound when I move a knob. At this point I'm not even touching the presets. I just want to figure out what exactly am I oscillating when I mess with the LFO.
Good point but very few synths show the signal flow, it's somehow assumed we all know how the different sections are put together.

But some honorable exception here, especially Twin 2 has a clever way of showing the signal flow:



Zebra also:



Of course expensive pay-synths so not something to learn on, just picking up on lack of signal-flow 'charted' GUIs.
V'ger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 06:48 PM   #116
Time Waster
Human being with feelings
 
Time Waster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bowral, Australia
Posts: 477
Default

On the subject of modulars, another interesting development I've been following is Audulus ( http://audulus.com/ ). It's a modular sound processing environment that was originally developed for the iPhone. I'm currently waiting the release of version 3 for Windows. It has a beautiful interface and is very reasonably priced. I think something like this would be very good for leaning synthesis and sound processing in general.
Time Waster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 07:35 PM   #117
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Waster View Post
On the subject of modulars, another interesting development I've been following is Audulus ( http://audulus.com/ ). It's a modular sound processing environment that was originally developed for the iPhone. I'm currently waiting the release of version 3 for Windows. It has a beautiful interface and is very reasonably priced. I think something like this would be very good for leaning synthesis and sound processing in general.
Interesting. I really wish that vst (or some other plugin format) would move toward something like eurorack modules, where components can share audio, midi, whatever, among one another. For example, maybe some developer makes an oscillator, another makes an lfo, and while the lfo is modulating the oscillator, the oscillator is feeding back into the lfo...or whatever you might want to try. The vst plugin format isn't modular enough. But I'm guessing that would bring on a whole new level of bugs and performance issues along for the ride. P.s. - Propellerhead kind of blew it with the RE format.
__________________
The media are misleading the public about...pretty much everything.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2016, 08:52 PM   #118
Time Waster
Human being with feelings
 
Time Waster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bowral, Australia
Posts: 477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
... I really wish that vst (or some other plugin format) would move toward something like eurorack modules, where components can share audio, midi, whatever, among one another. For example, maybe some developer makes an oscillator, another makes an lfo, and while the lfo is modulating the oscillator, the oscillator is feeding back into the lfo...or whatever you might want to try. The vst plugin format isn't modular enough. But I'm guessing that would bring on a whole new level of bugs and performance issues along for the ride. P.s. - Propellerhead kind of blew it with the RE format.
I'm not convinced that it can't be done using the current VST format, using midi cc for the control patches, and creative use of reaper's audio routing, as mentioned in another thread somewhere. But it would probably be better with a new format based on a modular approach.
Time Waster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2016, 01:07 AM   #119
noise_construct
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
Interesting. I really wish that vst (or some other plugin format) would move toward something like eurorack modules, where components can share audio, midi, whatever, among one another. For example, maybe some developer makes an oscillator, another makes an lfo, and while the lfo is modulating the oscillator, the oscillator is feeding back into the lfo...or whatever you might want to try. The vst plugin format isn't modular enough. But I'm guessing that would bring on a whole new level of bugs and performance issues along for the ride. P.s. - Propellerhead kind of blew it with the RE format.
What would the benefit of this?

Anyway, if you are interested in advanced routing between plugins in a feasible way, you'd need to use something else than REAPER. Check out Bidule or Usine for examples of modular environments.
noise_construct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2016, 03:06 AM   #120
Softsynth
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
What would the benefit of this?

Anyway, if you are interested in advanced routing between plugins in a feasible way, you'd need to use something else than REAPER. Check out Bidule or Usine for examples of modular environments.
Non sonically. This is something for hobbyist users that want even more sonic Meccano. Today the opportunities to create new and different sounds are vastly greater than ever before. Arguably the lack of limitations is a form of creative stumbling block already!
Softsynth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.