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View Poll Results: Post-Fader FX?
Sounds great! 72 97.30%
No way. 2 2.70%
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Old 10-10-2009, 03:28 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakey.oberon View Post
I know there are workarounds, I'm just stating that it is an issue anyway
No, It isn't an issue. It's the design of Reaper, because there is no distinction between VSTs and VSTis. If you put a VSTi in your track this is first thing in the track that creates the sound and if you assign a Pre-FX-send, there can't be sent any signal anywhere because there is none as you already correctly became aware of. It is just the same as if you'd like to have an FX-send prior to your guitar pick-ups.




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Old 10-10-2009, 04:42 PM   #42
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It is an issue, because you can't send audio pre fx on an instrument channel, but you can on an audio channel, thats the issue, its a restriction
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Old 10-10-2009, 05:26 PM   #43
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Try dragging the the VSTi from the FX insert to the MIDI item and bypass it on the insert. Per-take FX are pre inserts and you should get the dry signal from the synth on a pre-FX send.

Edit: That's no solution for multi-out synth monsters though.
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Old 10-10-2009, 06:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shakey.oberon View Post
It is an issue, because you can't send audio pre fx on an instrument channel, but you can on an audio channel, thats the issue, its a restriction
There are no distinct instrument channels, audio channels or MIDI channels in Reaper. They simply don't exist. It's all the same. And as I wrote before there is also no distinction between FX (VST/DX) and instruments (VSTi/DXi).

If you have a track with audio and have put a delay into the fx chain, you can branch the audio (pre-fx), the audio with delay (post-fx) and the audio with dalay (post-fader, post-pan). If you now exchange the delay with a softsynth, you simply can't branch off the signal of the softsynth pre-fx, because the signal isn't created at this stage yet.

So if you now have a chain where right after the VSTi comes a VST (maybe a synth and a chorus) you can't branch between them, but there's no need to, because if you create a send anyway that goes to another track, why would you put the VST right behind the VSTi instead of just creating another send to a third track and put the VST there?

I can't see whichever audio signal that goes into Reaper can't be mixed with any other signal that's played back by Reaper or created by some plugin. You can route *every* signal *anywhere* and mix it with *every* other. This is Reaper's paradigm. That's how it works, not a workaround. But: many things are not done like in Sonar or other DAWs.

So would you point me to the restriction you see?
What am I missing?






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Old 10-10-2009, 06:35 PM   #45
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I thought of another workaround for now... open the routing for your VSTi and send inputs 1+2 to 3+4 also, and then make a send from 3+4 to 1+2 on your other track.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:33 AM   #46
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I'm not saying that there aren't ways around it, it would just be easier if you could just click pre fx on an instrument channel. Reaper can distinguish between vst and vsti, because it puts them in separate folders in the fx chooser. It should be possible for reaper to detect a vsti in a chain and then give the option to send immediately after it.

Reaper is all about equality, all sources of audio should have the same routing options, to avoid confusion

It would be handy

Last edited by shakey.oberon; 10-11-2009 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 10-11-2009, 06:56 AM   #47
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I'm not against it at all. To be consistent there could be a branch between every plugin in the chain. But I doubt that this will happen (in the near future) because of Reaper's flexible routing capabilities anyway. But how about putting this into the issue tracker if it is one for you? Maybe the devs just need to make some little changes and it's no big deal to achieve this.




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Old 10-11-2009, 07:07 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
But how about putting this into the issue tracker if it is one for you?
Already there: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=264
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:01 AM   #49
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Nice.




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Old 10-11-2009, 08:36 AM   #50
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Voted for it!
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:20 AM   #51
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very elegant solution, well done!!
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Old 12-07-2009, 07:44 AM   #52
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Default Pre/Post fader Inserts

Hi all,

It'll be extremely valuable and handy to have the option of Pre/Post fader 'Inserts'. And since the FX 'Sends' in Reaper can already be set to either Pre or Post fader, I think that implementing it should be quite easy.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:25 AM   #53
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*bump*
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:50 PM   #54
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Hate to say it, but cubase has had this for years. it's a bit of a pain not having it for me... I always put a softclipper/limiter on each of my drum channels with 12dB input gain and -12dB output gain - all post fade. That way, I can 'drive' the channel as i need to get more drum prescence without actually raising the drum level... Gives me a great reference level to build the rest of the mix around. I can do this in reaper, but it means I have to use something like sonalklys 'freeG' gain/fader plugin for every drum channel - less convenient than the mixer channel...
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:39 PM   #55
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Default [IID#264] Movable Pre-FX and Post-Fader dividers in the FX chain window

Link to FR. Please vote here.
Learn more about the Feature Request tracker here

Summary line: -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
We still have no possibility to insert FX after the volume fader in REAPER. Quite a downside if you look at all the other DAWs.

Also there's no way to send a VSTi without following FX to another track


Please see these threads:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=2486
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=9266
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=28163
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=44166


An easy and perfect solution:

____________________________

FX Chain window
____________________________

[ ] Plugin
[ ] Plugin
[ ] Plugin

--------------------------------
^ movable Pre-FX-divider:
Plugins above the divider are sent to other tracks if routing is Pre-FX.


[ ] Plugin
[ ] Plugin
[ ] Plugin

--------------------------------
^ movable Post-Fader-divider:
Plugins below the divider will be inserted after the volume fader


[ ] Plugin
[ ] Plugin
[ ] Plugin

____________________________



And in my opinion VSTi should be inserted above the Pre-FX divider by default.

Last edited by Dstruct; 04-26-2011 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 03-24-2010, 12:49 PM   #56
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Default Transfer from IID#264

Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsup
un necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER View Post
Make the VSTi send to both channel 1+2 AND 3+4 and then use the channel 3+4 to send to the other track (as the only VSTi track) or make a separate track for the VSTi.

FWIW in the current way REAPER handles VSTis it is the most logical way to treat them as ordinary effects
Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000
if anyone changes the current system, i'll get very angry, i use this sort of thing everywhere for layering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
This feature wouldn't mess up anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by labyrinth
Do you think there should be a line or an after sends fx bin below the sends?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
I call it "movable deviders". So that you can also drag that deviders above or below plugins (instead of selecting plugins and moving them).
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakey.oberon
this is really needed, so you can easily do prefx sends on a vsti track
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct
Not just that -> Post-Fader FX too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain caveman
Apart from all the usual uses for post fader FX and being able to define in a way what FX creates the sound and what effects it, this could easily solve the MIDI fader/pan problem.

If you could put FX pre and post fader you could make the fader control MIDI volume by placing one test tone producing plugin pre-fader and one plugin that outputs CC7 based on any changes to the volume of the test tone. Saved as a track template of course.

I'm sure someone could rustle those plugins up in an afternoon if the pre/post fader placement of FX were implemented.

Two birds with one stone and all that, cause post-fader inserts are standard issue too.

edit: unless I am tripping, that solution would work for MIDI volume and pan, if the 2nd plugin took the changes of position of the signal in the stereo field and sent pan as well as volume MIDI CCs.

(I hope that is more descriptive than the "+1" post that was deleted).
12345
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:16 PM   #57
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This is an absolutely loveable feature we'd all like to have.

+100!
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:44 PM   #58
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You're commenting on how you would or could use the feature. That's what the discussion threads are for. In the issue tracker, replies are welcome which add ideas on the implementation of the FR or missed sub-features, your post doesn't do anything like that. If a reply gets deleted, please accept it or ask in the discussion thread why it was deleted, but don't keep on re-adding it. Thanks.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:47 PM   #59
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I think that "This is not a discussion forum" should be written out like this:

THIS IS NOT A DISCUSSION FORUM!
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:41 PM   #60
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Cmon guys, please respect the mods who have a tough job.

We ask the mods to be super aggressive about keeping anything not 100% relevant out of the issue tracker, because that helps us. I've deleted the third re-post of the deleted comment in the tracker.

This is a fine place to have a discussion about the suggested feature.
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:47 PM   #61
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I'll add a little more meta-commentary.

It's inevitable and understandable that there will be differences of opinion about what is directly relevant to an issue in the tracker, and what is discussion around it. In many cases, somebody has to make a judgement call, so we ask the mods to do that.

But that doesn't mean that the commentary and discussion is not useful and helpful, everyone still wants to have the conversation! We just want to have it here in the user forum, rather than continuing to push one particular issue to the top of the issue tracker.
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:49 PM   #62
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And, also, I'll say that the benefits of post-fader FX are certainly clear.
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:52 PM   #63
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No worries Schwa. If the posturing has brought this to your attention then the job is done and there is no need to do an Andy Dufresne with the official FR thread.

The relative unpopularity of the FR compared to some of the more "fashionable" ones should not detract from the uber-relevant necessity of it though.

edit: edited original posts out to keep discussion on track.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:45 AM   #64
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I think on the subject of divider lines to separate where different FX come in the signal chain it would be a great idea to have an additional divider line for Input FX that are recorded.

I know that Record Output can be used, but this records the entire chain (unless FX are bypassed).

Doing it this way would essentially mean that Reaper has a per-track Input Transformer a la Cubendo.

Also, on the same general subject, being able to select a track as an input on a track would be good.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:59 PM   #65
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Default transfer from the tracker

from the issue tracker:


Quote:
Originally Posted by whoobs
I agree, this should absolutely be written into a future type of Reaper.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:29 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Bump. Can we get this in V4?
+1

Apart from the countless uses already mentioned, being able to have a limiter in the Master FX chain to prevent the master from clipping without it being dependent on the fader would be incredibly useful.
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:20 AM   #67
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I'm still considering the switch from Cubase and the lack of this feature is a deal breaker for me. So +1 here too, definitely.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:17 AM   #68
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What a brilliant idea ...

+1 here and voted
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:39 PM   #69
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Default Post-Fader Inserts

Post-Fader Inserts

I believe this is something that would be useful for the different metering plugins that are now available and possibly even more useful for distortion/saturation type plugins that we could "mix into" (ie: adjusting the mixer's fader would drive the input of the post-fader plugin.) Of course you're not limited to those types of plugins. We could really get creative here!

If we could have another FX bin alongside our current pre-fader one, that would be great!

If that's out of the question, being able to "right-click -> [x]Post-Fader FX" would work well. Maybe changing the color of the insert or marking it with a * before the name would be a good way to show which ones are post-fader as opposed to the normal pre-fader FX. (Something like *ReaComp to show that it's post-fader.)

Yea? Nea? Maybea?


EDIT:
Official Tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3349

Thanks lambdoid!

Last edited by d.bop; 05-18-2011 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Added a tracker link
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:47 PM   #70
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A decent workaround for now is to put a regular "gain" plugin on the insert stack before your "post-fader" plugin and use that instead of the fader for level control.
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Old 05-08-2011, 09:49 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogy View Post
A decent workaround for now is to put a regular "gain" plugin on the insert stack before your "post-fader" plugin and use that instead of the fader for level control.
Yep, that is true. I coded up a quick JS plugin to do that for me for now. It's a bit of an annoyance, though.. and not quite as fun as using REAPER's mixer (or my Faderport and Nocturn.)
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Old 05-09-2011, 11:22 AM   #72
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Yes we need this, especially for the master.
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:37 AM   #73
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+a billion!

I brought this up not too long ago: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=79944


Voting in 3..2..1
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:39 AM   #74
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Official Tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=3349

Thanks lambdoid!
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Old 05-18-2011, 09:54 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d.bop View Post
Yep, that is true. I coded up a quick JS plugin to do that for me for now. It's a bit of an annoyance, though.. and not quite as fun as using REAPER's mixer (or my Faderport and Nocturn.)
Another workaround would be disable the parent/master send, create a send to a new track, set your fader on the original where you want it, and put the post fader FXs on the new track, leaving this fader at 0. This way you can adjust Reaper's fader on the original track and still have your post fader FXs. You would also be able to use your control surface still. Tho a native built in option for post fader FX would be much better IMO. Voted yes in the tracker.

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Old 05-18-2011, 10:26 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppwazzup View Post
Another workaround would be disable the parent/master send, create a send to a new track, set your fader on the original where you want it, and put the post fader FXs on the new track, leaving this fader at 0. This way you can adjust Reaper's fader on the original track and still have your post fader FXs. You would also be able to use your control surface still. Tho a native built in option for post fader FX would be much better IMO. Voted yes in the tracker.

Matt
Another way to do it would be to create a parent folder track for each track in the mix then insert the effect on the parent.

Having a post-fader option right on the track would be so much more convenient, though!

Thanks for voting
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Old 05-18-2011, 10:31 AM   #77
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HAHAHA, much better than my idea. Wasn't quite awake yet. I tend to over complicate things when I am not awake and thinking clearly. Whats funny is I do what you said on almost all my projects. Damn I love feeling like an idiot LMAO

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Old 05-18-2011, 10:39 AM   #78
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Actually, I kind of like your "standard routing" idea more than my folder idea. At least with seperate busses, you could move them all to the end of the mixer (out of reach, easier to forget about them...) and leave your "real" tracks near the beginning of the project.

Either way, REAPER is amazing.


Now if we only had true post-fader FX.....
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:35 AM   #79
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+1
I want this possibility so much as well ! This could be like the inserts 7-8 in Cubase or similar.
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Old 05-23-2011, 12:22 PM   #80
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Except better than Cubase as you wouldn't be limited to just 2 slots.
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