Old 04-10-2017, 07:57 PM   #241
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It's mostly a Schwa feature anyway so he's probably tucked away doing that now that AI is getting there etc. Also, Schwa did said a while a go (something like..) he is reworking it all based on user feedback etc so that it's more future proofed and just overall better UI wise etc so it is coming back and will most likely be worth the wait too hang in there!
Pretty much. Like my mama always said, you can get it fast or you get it right (mostly related to food, but a good overall lesson).

But modern daw users are an impatient bunch.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:56 PM   #242
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So MIDI events (including CC) can be triggered by an articulation marking in notation, but are ephemeral.

Would it be a useful addition if there was a function to 'write articulation event to sequence as MIDI' or something so that the data could be humanized or otherwise tweaked?

Also was it working so that sequenced MIDI is removed from the sequence once it has been linked to an articulation? (I guess I could go back and check on that)

And finally, the one a few people have asked, will it be possible that live played MIDI will be converted to articulation markings on the fly? (where mappings exist)

To me that would be the basics of a complete system (assuming, and it was looking very good, that a full complement of parameters could be mapped).
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:59 AM   #243
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Would it be a useful addition if there was a function to 'write articulation event to sequence as MIDI' or something so that the data could be humanized or otherwise tweaked?
I think, best way is connect articulation and midi events / cc on both direction. With option to turn it on /off. That means, if option is turned on, and I have on notation pp with legato, velocity and note durations are set up by rules, when I change velocity for few notes in pianoroll from value 90 to 40 and change not-overlaping notes, under notation I get automaticly f > pp without legato (slur).
If legato is created with keyswitch, (as Tod wrote) I think the separate keyswtich lanes, or a split piano roll would be best for that.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:03 AM   #244
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Besides keyswitches, libraries also use different channels, different CC values, and who knows what else.

I don't think this idea would work for the articulation mapper for two reasons.

1. As I noted, there are other MIDI events besides keyswitches that manipulate articulations. Having a separate lane for keyswitches, while nice, wouldn't give a complete picture.
I know , I use CC events a lot too in the intruments I make. But they can also become unwieldy, especially if you also have a lot of CC controllers.

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2. I think it better as done originally to have the mapping utility (whatever it ends up being) interpret the articulations into MIDI on the fly instead of inserting MIDI events into the actual MIDI item.
Okay, I've not seen what you're talking about, so I'm not sure what you mean.

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I think this is a great idea, but I think it shouldn't really have much to do with the articulation mapper.
Yeah, heh heh, I didn't intend for it to suffice as an articulation mapper.

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EDIT: To be fair, I liked the way the articulation mapping was represented in the CC lane originally.
I did a brief search, but couldn't find anything, do you know where that post is?
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:22 AM   #246
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Aah, okay, thanks ED. I think that's an okay idea, but based on what's there, I don't think it'll work very well because it only provides positioning.

Talking about positioning, with Reaper and Kontakt I've found that the keyswitches need to be at least 8 to 10ms before the target note. I don't know if that's because of Reaper, Kontakt, or both. Maybe it has to do with Kontakt's script processing time.

The reason I mention this, is because the gif in that post made it appear that the position of the notation events was the same as the target note. However, I assume the notation event would be automatically placed far enough ahead of the target note.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:26 AM   #247
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I've never experienced a library delaying the impact of a keyswitch. I've had some libraries give conflicting results if the keyswitch and impacted note occur at the same midi tick, but I've never needed more than one midi tick to trigger a keyswitch. Best guess is that it's a library specific issue.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:43 AM   #248
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I've never experienced a library delaying the impact of a keyswitch. I've had some libraries give conflicting results if the keyswitch and impacted note occur at the same midi tick, but I've never needed more than one midi tick to trigger a keyswitch. Best guess is that it's a library specific issue.
Yeah, it could be Kontakt, I've had the same thing happen with single CC events too. It might be the Kontakt scripting, I haven't checked it out with Kontakt's native keyswitches that don't use scripts, it would be interesting to see how they react.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:49 AM   #249
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Never a problem here, and with Kontakt. KS a tick before the note is perfectly enough.
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Old 04-24-2017, 03:22 AM   #250
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Excuse my ignorance, but in what version on this Articulation Mapper is included?
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:49 AM   #251
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It was in a series of pre releases early this year. It was pulled until some of the basic elements could be sorted out. I hope it returns soon.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:44 AM   #252
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Never a problem here, and with Kontakt. KS a tick before the note is perfectly enough.
Thanks ED, I have no clue why it happens here, it's happened with a couple of scripted instruments, as well as a muti-script.

It was the multi-script where I first actually measured to see how far I had to put both keyswitches and CCs. It was 10 to 16 tics.
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:53 AM   #253
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Default SkiSwitcher & ARTzID

a great example and maybe a possible source of inspiration for this articulations feature, in my opinion, could be the amazing SkiSwitcher and ARTzID

http://www.skiswitcher.com

the key feature is that articulations get "embedded" inside the notes themselves, instead of being triggered by messages or keyswitches.

Hope this could be of any help...thanks for your amazing work Schwa!
All the best!
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:42 AM   #254
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While we are eagerly awaiting version 6.0 which will hopefully contain an articulation mapper I've made some scripts and plugins that should make it a little easier to switch articulations from the notation view, they will work in the piano roll too, of course. I posted another thread about this in the JSFX sub-forum but here is a link to my github repo where the scripts are located.
https://github.com/davidhealey/reascript
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Old 06-30-2017, 12:56 PM   #255
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While we are eagerly awaiting version 6.0 which will hopefully contain an articulation mapper I've made some scripts and plugins that should make it a little easier to switch articulations from the notation view, they will work in the piano roll too, of course. I posted another thread about this in the JSFX sub-forum but here is a link to my github repo where the scripts are located.
https://github.com/davidhealey/reascript
Thanks Dave, I knew you used Reaper but this is the first time I really realized it was your post.

I'll check these out, I'm anxious to see how they work.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:03 PM   #256
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Did Schwa say the articulation mapper was pushed to version 6? I would have thought it would come in 5 sometime after the automation items were up and running.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:22 PM   #257
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Did Schwa say the articulation mapper was pushed to version 6?
Unfortunately yes - http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=38 How I wish Reaper was GPL
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:24 PM   #258
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Thanks Dave, I knew you used Reaper but this is the first time I really realized it was your post.

I'll check these out, I'm anxious to see how they work.
I'll try and get some videos out soon demonstrating them. I've created lots of individual small scripts rather than a few big ones so that they can be setup as custom actions to suit different work flows. I've also included a couple of menu versions that combine several features into one.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:25 PM   #259
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Bummer.
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:19 PM   #260
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While we are eagerly awaiting version 6.0 which will hopefully contain an articulation mapper I've made some scripts and plugins that should make it a little easier to switch articulations from the notation view, they will work in the piano roll too, of course. I posted another thread about this in the JSFX sub-forum but here is a link to my github repo where the scripts are located.
https://github.com/davidhealey/reascript
Thank you very much David!
i will try your "uacc to channel" plugin later tonight...can you tell me if notes get actually recorded on their respective channel, or they still get recorded as channel 1 and then your plugins routes them to the new channel?

thanks again!

all the best
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:33 PM   #261
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Thank you very much David!
i will try your "uacc to channel" plugin later tonight...can you tell me if notes get actually recorded on their respective channel, or they still get recorded as channel 1 and then your plugins routes them to the new channel?

thanks again!

all the best
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The plugin just reroutes incoming notes to the selected channel
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:59 PM   #262
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Maybe it's time to resurrect my Reaticulate project. (That's a quasi functional UI prototype so disregard the fact that much about it doesn't make sense.) I halted it late last year with the promise of articulation maps (which either obviate the need for it entirely or at least significantly change its function), but now, over 6 months later, I regret my optimism of seeing Reaper inherit this functionality natively.
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Old 06-30-2017, 04:08 PM   #263
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The plugin just reroutes incoming notes to the selected channel
thanks! i'll try it anyway
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Old 06-30-2017, 05:56 PM   #264
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I started one as well (https://stash.reaper.fm/v/27173/Notation%20to%20MIDI.zip). I think my version is very flexible, but it is NOT very user friendly. Do we want to put our heads together to try to come up with a solution?

I would love for an articulation mapper to be native to Reaper, but it sounds like it is stalled or scrapped.

Schwa, I think this was mentioned on a pre-release thread, but would it be reasonable to finish the nuts and bolts of the infrastructure and allow users to create a UI via scripting (if such a thing is even feasible based on the infrastructure)?
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Old 07-01-2017, 02:34 AM   #265
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I started one as well (https://stash.reaper.fm/v/27173/Nota...0to%20MIDI.zip). I think my version is very flexible, but it is NOT very user friendly. Do we want to put our heads together to try to come up with a solution?

I would love for an articulation mapper to be native to Reaper, but it sounds like it is stalled or scrapped.

Schwa, I think this was mentioned on a pre-release thread, but would it be reasonable to finish the nuts and bolts of the infrastructure and allow users to create a UI via scripting (if such a thing is even feasible based on the infrastructure)?
Good idea. One thing that was important for me was that I needed articulations to be chased. Key switches are great for live performance but I find not so great for playback. So I went the UACC route.
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Old 07-01-2017, 07:26 AM   #266
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I can't seem to find any documentation on UACC. Do you know where I could find this?
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:05 AM   #267
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I can't seem to find any documentation on UACC. Do you know where I could find this?
UACC is basically an invention of Blake Robinson and Spitfire Audio but it's a good one. You use CC32 to change articulation instead of using key switches. Blake came up with a standard which is pretty good and flexible, I've found a few use cases where the standard's definitions aren't suitable and I have to use alternate values for certain articulations but overall it's pretty good. And the best thing is because it's a CC the articulations are automatically chased.

http://syntheticorchestra.com/blog/?10

Blake also made a plugin for FL Studio and Reaper called Articulate which I believe uses the UACC but it relies on a lot of mouse entry which doesn't suit my workflow.

One of the scripts in my github repo provides a drop down menu for inserting UACC values according to Blake's standard.
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Old 07-01-2017, 08:23 AM   #268
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Got it. Yeah, I've seen this before now that I look at it. The biggest problem I see is when libraries can independently control these articulations. For example, a string library that has a muted trill. I don't see a way to really control that using one CC value.

My solution would account for multiple techniques being triggered, but it's frustratingly complicated. I essentially write CC values as defined by the user via a text file to articulations. I have a separate text file that (also generated by the user) that looks for active articulations to trigger corresponding keyswitch, channel change, etc. from the JSFX effect. The only way I could really make it work was to use mostly integers to indicate the type/style of change instead of text (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=174191). This is obviously not very user friendly, but it might work if I used a separate script to write the playback rules in the background. Maybe I'll give it another shot, but it looks like there are some limitations to how I tried to implement my solution.
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:25 AM   #269
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UACC is basically an invention of Blake Robinson and Spitfire Audio but it's a good one. You use CC32 to change articulation instead of using key switches. Blake came up with a standard which is pretty good and flexible, I've found a few use cases where the standard's definitions aren't suitable and I have to use alternate values for certain articulations but overall it's pretty good. And the best thing is because it's a CC the articulations are automatically chased.

http://syntheticorchestra.com/blog/?10

Blake also made a plugin for FL Studio and Reaper called Articulate which I believe uses the UACC but it relies on a lot of mouse entry which doesn't suit my workflow.

One of the scripts in my github repo provides a drop down menu for inserting UACC values according to Blake's standard.
The question is, how to use CC on Reaper to switch articulations if we can't see CC value on midi editor?

This will be a great feature.
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:46 AM   #270
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With Articulate you don't even need to see the CC value at all.
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Old 07-08-2017, 05:47 AM   #271
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The question is, how to use CC on Reaper to switch articulations if we can't see CC value on midi editor?

This will be a great feature.
Use a custom toolbar with the button icons I created and custom actions. I will make a video for this ASAP
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Old 07-08-2017, 06:37 AM   #272
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Use a custom toolbar with the button icons I created and custom actions. I will make a video for this ASAP
I was wondering this too. Looking forward to the video Please let us know when youre able to make it thank you!
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Old 07-10-2017, 01:32 PM   #273
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I was wondering this too. Looking forward to the video Please let us know when youre able to make it thank you!
Video number 1: https://youtu.be/eZZ3myOFpwE
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:12 PM   #274
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Huge huge thank you!!!!
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:03 PM   #275
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Hi David, I notice you're lining the position of the CC32s right up even with the notes, basically it appears you have "Snap" on. Do you not have any problem with that?

Time and time again I've found I have to put the keyswitches slightly ahead of the notes a few ms before they work.

Good video, and I'm definitely going to try this. I notice you're using this for one legato type line, I usually have 2, 3, and even 4 legato lines going at the same time on the same track, each using different controllers. Without having tried this yet, may I ask, will that be a problem?

Thanks, Tod
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:22 PM   #276
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Hi David, I notice you're lining the position of the CC32s right up even with the notes, basically it appears you have "Snap" on. Do you not have any problem with that?

Time and time again I've found I have to put the keyswitches slightly ahead of the notes a few ms before they work.

Good video, and I'm definitely going to try this. I notice you're using this for one legato type line, I usually have 2, 3, and even 4 legato lines going at the same time on the same track, each using different controllers. Without having tried this yet, may I ask, will that be a problem?

Thanks, Tod
Yes there is a problem if you're using the UACC to trigger key-switches and you have it lined up as I do - you'll see this in the next video I'll be posting tomorrow (just have to finish editing). I'll probably make an alternate version of the script which sets the CCs slightly before the note, I haven't done this yet because for my own purposes I put articulations on different channels rather than use key-switches.

I only ever have one instrument line per track so I'm not sure how it will work if you have multiple lines on a single track - are they on different channels? If so the CC data the script inserts should be placed on the same channel as the selected notes I believe.
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Old 07-10-2017, 04:41 PM   #277
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Hi David, I notice you're lining the position of the CC32s right up even with the notes, basically it appears you have "Snap" on. Do you not have any problem with that?
Ok I just updated the github repository - https://github.com/davidhealey/reascript

At the top of the UACC scripts there is now a constant that can be set to 1 so that CC data will be inserted before the selected notes rather than inline with their start - I don't know if this will have any weird side-effects though but feel free to be a guinea pig and test it out. If all goes well I'll put this new information in a future video.
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Old 07-10-2017, 05:09 PM   #278
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I only ever have one instrument line per track so I'm not sure how it will work if you have multiple lines on a single track - are they on different channels? If so the CC data the script inserts should be placed on the same channel as the selected notes I believe.
No they are all on the same channel, I've been doing that since back with Kontakt 2.

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Ok I just updated the github repository - https://github.com/davidhealey/reascript

At the top of the UACC scripts there is now a constant that can be set to 1 so that CC data will be inserted before the selected notes rather than inline with their start - I don't know if this will have any weird side-effects though but feel free to be a guinea pig and test it out. If all goes well I'll put this new information in a future video.
Okay David, I'll try this as soon as I can, it might be next week, my kids are visiting us until the end of the week. But I'm anxious to try it.

Incidentally, it isn't just orchestra instruments I use with keyswitchs, I've also got other instruments like Steel Guitar, Regular Guitar, and even Bass, that I use keyswitchs for, not only for different controllers, but for bending the strings. If I can make it work there, it's a winner as far as I'm concerned.

I think the important thing will be to determine how far ahead the keyswitchs/CCs should be. Also, I'm assuming the keyswitch offset will be from the selected notes, right? If so that could be a big time saver.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:21 PM   #279
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I'm going to give my script and JSFX another attempt soon considering it's going to be a while before we see this natively.

I could really use some help creating a separate script to help write my playback rules files. Basically, I need help writing a script to act as an interface between the user (text) and what my JSFX uses (integers). Let me know if interested. See here (https://stash.reaper.fm/v/27173/Nota...0to%20MIDI.zip).
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:47 PM   #280
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If you can sit tight a week, maybe two, I'll be ready for an alpha release of the solution I had been working on. I shelved it in December with the promise of articulation maps, but picked it back up two weeks ago when I drew the same conclusion (that articulation maps wouldn't be ready any time soon).

The philosophy is pretty similar. It uses Program Change events (which are chased and displayed with useful text in the MIDI editor), and a companion JSFX to translate program changes to either CCs, notes, or route by MIDI channel, which is all configurable per track. I also have an external means of changing articulations and it works with that as well. So if I change an articulation via the external trigger, the UI updates to reflect the change. (Or, obviously, just clicking the articulation will do the same.)

https://helix.urandom.ca/public/reaticulate-alpha.png
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