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Old 02-05-2017, 08:38 AM   #41
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Btw, I’m not sure how this option is going to correlate to themes oriented to specific zoom levels like 200%.
Same, just use a lower percentage. So, to scale from 200% to 130%, you would use 1/1.3=0.769.
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Old 02-05-2017, 09:05 AM   #42
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Scaling to other sizes is indeed possible. For now, along with the other layouts and other in-theme size layouts (small and large), I'm holding off because it would be a great deal of grunt work that would be more wisely tackled once the details are nailed down as to whether this is going to happen, how this is going to happen, and how I should best approach it.

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For an application to be scalable to arbitrary ratios with no blur, its GUI should be based on vector graphics.
Indeed, and that's assuming a vector renderer with smooth curve rendering, classy antialiasing, an understanding of things like pixel boundary snapping and line-weight visual optimisation for when the scaling is anywhere near the visible-pixel level. Reaper uses Cockos' LICE (lightweight image compositing engine) which is resolutely designed as a lightweight (as the name suggests) and very high-performance image engine. Its vector drawing looks like what it is : optimised for efficiency rather than beauty.

I would be very supportive of Reaper being able to parse an SVG, and then draw it beautifully at size using a (possibly entirely new) graphics engine. The former would be a little pointless without the latter; and the latter would be a very, very big feature request that could also be argued to run contrary to the principles of the REAPER project. My expectation is that, making realistic assumptions, the likelihood of that is very low.

The bitmap-based approach will cover a lot of ground for a lot of HiDPI users, I'm optimistic hopeful that the lack of arbitrary-scale perfection will be something the majority of users will be OK with.
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Old 02-05-2017, 10:29 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
Scaling to other sizes is indeed possible. For now, along with the other layouts and other in-theme size layouts (small and large), I'm holding off because it would be a great deal of grunt work that would be more wisely tackled once the details are nailed down as to whether this is going to happen, how this is going to happen, and how I should best approach it.



Indeed, and that's assuming a vector renderer with smooth curve rendering, classy antialiasing, an understanding of things like pixel boundary snapping and line-weight visual optimisation for when the scaling is anywhere near the visible-pixel level. Reaper uses Cockos' LICE (lightweight image compositing engine) which is resolutely designed as a lightweight (as the name suggests) and very high-performance image engine. Its vector drawing looks like what it is : optimised for efficiency rather than beauty.

I would be very supportive of Reaper being able to parse an SVG, and then draw it beautifully at size using a (possibly entirely new) graphics engine. The former would be a little pointless without the latter; and the latter would be a very, very big feature request that could also be argued to run contrary to the principles of the REAPER project. My expectation is that, making realistic assumptions, the likelihood of that is very low.

The bitmap-based approach will cover a lot of ground for a lot of HiDPI users, I'm optimistic hopeful that the lack of arbitrary-scale perfection will be something the majority of users will be OK with.
Heck. I'm happy with the latest beta already! Scaling would be nice but is not essential to me.
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:00 AM   #44
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Same, just use a lower percentage. So, to scale from 200% to 130%, you would use 1/1.3=0.769.
Nope - use simple proportions:
Code:
200 - 1
130 - x
x=130*1/200=0.65
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:58 PM   #45
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Ah, right. I was going by percentage calculation. Whoopsie
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:11 PM   #46
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Just updated these themes in the OP with some layout fixes.
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Old 02-10-2017, 06:01 PM   #47
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Just updated these themes in the OP with some layout fixes.
It's looking great.

Found a visual glitch when resizing media explorer: http://imgur.com/a/a1t44
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:11 PM   #48
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One issue in the Mixer: The sends and effects text is cut off


Last edited by gvanbrunt; 02-12-2017 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 02-11-2017, 10:01 PM   #49
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This is very exciting and welcome news, thanks to everyone involved!
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Old 02-12-2017, 03:13 PM   #50
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Here are some more issues I see:










Also just in case my settings are:

Windows display scaling setting: 100%
hDPI in Reaper: Aware
Scale UI elements: 2.0

Last edited by gvanbrunt; 02-12-2017 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:59 AM   #51
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Also just in case my settings are:
[...]
Scale UI elements: 2.0
AFAICT, this 2x theme is intended to be used at Reaper’s scale of 1.0. 200% scaling is built into the theme itself (though yes, some its elements like plus/minus icons and MIDI keyboard are unscaled yet).
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:38 PM   #52
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Nothing looks correct without any scaling applied.

Anyone know for sure what settings should be applied in Windows/Reaper for this?
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Old 02-13-2017, 07:30 PM   #53
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Nothing looks correct without any scaling applied.

Anyone know for sure what settings should be applied in Windows/Reaper for this?
Make sure you’re running a pre-release version of Reaper. HiDPI-theme support is currently not available in stable versions even if was previously available in pre-release versions of the same number.

And of course the 2x theme itself should be installed (just drag and drop) and selected in Reaper menu (Options → Themes → Default_5.0_2x_win).
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:52 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvanbrunt View Post
Also just in case my settings are:

Windows display scaling setting: 100%
hDPI in Reaper: Aware
Scale UI elements: 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvanbrunt View Post
Anyone know for sure what settings should be applied in Windows/Reaper for this?
Windows display scaling setting: 200%
hDPI in Reaper: Aware
Scale UI elements: 2.0 NOT this. Untick it.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:23 AM   #55
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Default Remove confusing “Scale UI elements…” option

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Scale UI elements: 2.0 NOT this. Untick it.
Given that HiDPI support is implemented via a theme, it now probably makes sense to remove the confusing “Scale UI elements…” option at all.
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:27 PM   #56
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Given that HiDPI support is implemented via a theme, it now probably makes sense to remove the confusing “Scale UI elements…” option at all.
I know at least one person who still uses that option with his own custom themes...
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:00 PM   #57
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Given that HiDPI support is implemented via a theme, it now probably makes sense to remove the confusing “Scale UI elements…” option at all.
Ok. What about people who need 130%-scaled theme?
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:22 PM   #58
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Default The “Scale UI elements…” option is buggy and very partial

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What about people who need 130%-scaled theme?
Given that scaling with that option is buggy and very partial (and in fact unusable at 200%), I have no idea how it can be useful.

There is a chance though, that those multiple unscaled things unaffected by this option are probably noncritical for some people at such small ratios as 1.3x (130%) (where elements actually rendered at 100% instead of expected 130% are not too smaller than they would look like if rendered at 130%) unlike 2x (200%) and higher.

In the long term, I suppose that Reaper should be able to automatically scale any theme to arbitrary custom ratio corresponding to OS-level zoom or specified by user. For example, 200% theme could be used at 130% if Reaper did automatic downscaling of all UI elements based on current selected theme. This way, 200% theme would be usable at any scale such as 150% (quite sharp) or 300% (slightly blurry) or 400% (nonblurry and just slightly pixelated if scaling from 200%-oriented theme is done by pixel duplication). Btw, in two months, Dell is expected to start shipping its first 8K monitor UP3218K that will require zoom of 400%.

Last edited by MT_; 02-14-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:44 AM   #59
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What needs to be done in existing themes to make them HiDPI compatible apart from 2x size images?
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:08 AM   #60
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What needs to be done in existing themes to make them HiDPI compatible apart from 2x size images?
THIS LIST IS NO LONGER CURRENT:
  • rtconfig.txt gets "global_scale 2.0" line. on Windows you have some flexibility here (if you want to do a 1.5x theme you can), but on macOS it should be either 2.0 or nothing, at least if you want it retina-rendered...
  • On Windows, item_*.png should be 2x, but on macOS they should not be. This rule probably applies to some other images, too.
  • *SOME* theme font sizes should be approximately doubled, but the list of which fonts are doubled differs slightly on macOS Retina vs Windows HiDPI.

Yes, this is a mess. Retina/HiDPI work vastly different on each platform (or between Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10, 10 Anniversary Update, and apparently a forthcoming Win10 update for that matter)...

Last edited by Justin; 02-15-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:10 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by gvanbrunt View Post
Here are some more issues I see:

...
Also just in case my settings are:

Windows display scaling setting: 100%
hDPI in Reaper: Aware
Scale UI elements: 2.0
You should be using the pre-releases, not 5.33.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:11 AM   #62
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So, basically this means there will need to be Windows and Mac versions for themes, eventually?
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:40 PM   #63
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<wipes egg off face>

Indeed everyone is correct. I wasn't using the pre release. I had thought I had applied it, but obviously not...

First let me say how amazing this looks now that it is running properly. Great work everyone and thank you for prioritizing it. I purchased a 4k monitor just for Reaper and finally it is paying off at full res.

So here are issues with the correct version running:
  • The numbers on the meters are not scaling. If you scale in windows to say 150% everything else looks great. Numbers are too small.
  • The toolbar doesn't "wrap" like in the 1x version. It's floating about 3/4 of the way up in the toolbar space.
  • Midi editor toolbar is cut off. I think that was reported. If you use named notes instead of the keys the text is too small to read. Actually there is quite a bit here that isn't scaled yet, so I'm not sure it is worth reporting everything until WT can take a look.
  • Not sure this is really a bug but make sense to me. If a 2x theme is selected, I believe the menu bars etc should also scale the size. As it is they are very tiny.
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:46 PM   #64
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Oh, I should mention I'm a long time lurker here, but haven't really posted much yet. Feel like I know many of you already.
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:59 PM   #65
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So, basically this means there will need to be Windows and Mac versions for themes, eventually?
Still figuring out if there's a way to avoid that... it would be for hidpi themes only if so, though...
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:13 PM   #66
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Default Windows DPI awareness is consistent

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HiDPI work vastly different on each platform (or between Windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10, 10 Anniversary Update, and apparently a forthcoming Win10 update for that matter)
What exactly do you mean specifically as for Windows? Basic (system-global) DPI awareness works perfectly consistently across all Windows versions.

Just Windows 8.1 additionally supports per-monitor DPI awareness, and 10 Anniversary Update supports Mixed Mode DPI Scaling (per-window DPI mode as opposed to per-application DPI mode available for developers in previous versions of Windows).
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:20 PM   #67
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Default Web-based GUI?

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Still figuring out if there's a way to avoid that... it would be for hidpi themes only if so, though...
Justin, did you consider using a web-engine-based GUI (e.g. via GitHub’s Electron) in Reaper?

This would automatically make Reaper scalable to arbitrary size and add support for SVG vector graphics as well as using web technologies (HTML/CSS/JS) for creating totally cross-platform themes.
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:29 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by MT_ View Post
Justin, did you consider using a web-engine-based GUI (e.g. via GitHub’s Electron) in Reaper?

This would automatically make Reaper scalable to arbitrary size and add support for SVG vector graphics as well as using web technologies (HTML/CSS/JS) for creating totally cross-platform themes.
No, that would be a nightmare. SVG support may happen at some point though.
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Old 02-15-2017, 06:31 PM   #69
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OK, just updated to 5.34pre7, and a unified hidpi theme (see the original post).

For purposes of people updating other themes to HiDPI/Retina support -- I wouldn't do this yet, really, as this stuff is in flux. But if you insist on doing it for your own enjoyment, knowing that they will likely break before a releasable version gets released, here are the things to know:
  • make the images double-size-ish, except for item_*
  • make double-size-ish item_*_hidpi (for Windows)
  • roughly double most font sizes in the theme
  • add a global_scale 2.0 line to the rtconfig.txt

You can do global_scale 1.5 or otherwise on Windows, but on macOS it must be 2.0 to enable Retina.

That is all for now.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:07 PM   #70
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Default Web-engine-based GUI

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No
Did not consider yet or already decided not to use web-engine-based GUI?

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that would be a nightmare.
Why?
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:19 PM   #71
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Default Unscaled MIDI-editor parts

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You'll find many things aren't correct yet, and while its probable that we know about many of them, please don't assume so; if its wrong then please do report it
The following parts of MIDI-editor window are apparently unscaled (see red ellipses):



Also, scrollbars and zoom +/- icons are blurry (apparently upscaled from lower resolution graphics).

Tested with the latest 5.34pre7 and the updated unified HiDPI theme.
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Old 02-16-2017, 11:19 PM   #72
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My custom theme has very blurred MCP pan knobs as if very badly scaled in v5.34pre7
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:00 PM   #73
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Default Specific ratio instead of hidpi in file name

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make double-size-ish item_*_hidpi (for Windows)
It would probably make sense to use the specific ratio like “2x” or “3x” in file names inside theme instead of occupying the generic “hidpi” keyword.

Otherwise it would probably be impossible to create themes that support different ratios at the same time with the same theme file.

For example, for upcoming 8K monitors like Dell UP3218K, the zoom of 400% (and therefore a 4x theme for Reaper) will be needed. So a universal multiratio theme could contain 1x, 2x, and 4x images at the same time to support 100%-400% zooms.
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:12 PM   #74
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$5k for a monitor, when a great majority of plugins struggle at 2K, well that's a waste of money I say. I'd even say 4K is a waste of money, at least for DAW usage, for quite some time to come...
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:40 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT_ View Post
It would probably make sense to use the specific ratio like “2x” or “3x” in file names inside theme instead of occupying the generic “hidpi” keyword.

Otherwise it would probably be impossible to create themes that support different ratios at the same time with the same theme file.
We will almost certainly have separate themes for each ratio.
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Old 02-21-2017, 05:51 PM   #76
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Wouldn't SVG support handle that better?
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:04 PM   #77
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Default Ratio is more future proof

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We will almost certainly have separate themes for each ratio.
A specific ratio in file name would probably be more future-proof anyway. HiDPI is a generic term not meaning just 200%. It’s probably not necessary to miss out on useful flexibility in future.

Also please note that it’s a good practice to automatically apply a zoom that corresponds to OS-level zoom, while switching to a specific theme requires an explicit user action.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:19 PM   #78
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Wouldn't SVG support handle that better?
Yeah, some day it will be a nice thing to do.
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Old 02-21-2017, 06:21 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by MT_ View Post
A specific ratio in file name would probably be more future-proof anyway. HiDPI is a generic term not meaning just 200%. It’s probably not necessary to miss out on useful flexibility in future.
Yes, though that file is used just to specify a theme-scale scaled version of the same image, so _hidpi is actually fine, and also there's no reason we couldn't change it to have specific ratios later.

Last edited by Justin; 02-21-2017 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:07 AM   #80
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Default Not just 8K

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$5k for a monitor
That’s not just about 8K. There are high-resolution laptops that may require a zoom of more than 200% for GUI elements to be large enough to be usable.
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