Old 05-24-2017, 11:16 AM   #1
RMO
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Default Piano MIDI recording including voices

Hi!
I am new to Reaper and this forum.
I have "studied" Reaper for some months now, trying to learn the basics. My goal at this time is to be able to record my P-105 Yamaha piano. Both as a piano and as a "Wood Bass" on another track. I have done this in Reaper using music tracks (wave) and succeded. But I want to be able to do it in MIDI so I can edit (erase errors and misstakes done while playing).
I am not interested in trying to build music in clean MIDI, at least not for now - I want my music recordings to be "handmade" piano and breathing, non-perfect jazzmusic + the possibility of editing.
I have tried to record the piano as MIDI in Reaper. The piano voice "Grand Piano 1" was used. It recorded ok. I could play it back from Reaper and I heard a piano-sound. The sound came out from under the piano, because I had made this setting under MIDI in Preferences (and deaktivated the soundcard of the computer, a HP Elite Book). Under the recording process I had no Fx / VSTi activated, because I wanted to get the "Grand Piano 1" sound from the Yamaha into my recording.
I then recorded a track2 with the "Wood Bass" voice, in exactly the same way as track1.
Problem:
The voices seem to not be recorded to the tracks. I just hear "a piano" (can't say what voice) and the same piano sound in stead of the "Wodd Bass" sound. So no wood bass.
I have followed the Yamaha Manual's recommendations to define the channels (pressing 2 buttons and some key on the piano).
Am I supposed to tell Reaper in some way, that the two voices should be "copied over" to my MIDI-recording in Reaper? If so, how do I do this?
Any help will be very much appreciated.
RMO
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:44 AM   #2
DVDdoug
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You can't record the "voices" in MIDI. You are only recording/capturing the MIDI messages (notes, velocity/loudness, and timing).

You need to find virtual instruments (VSTi's) that you like, then you play-back those virtual instruments.

There are ship-loads of virtual instruments available (both free and commercial) but you may not find exact-matches for your piano voices.

...The advantage, of course, is that you can change the virtual instruments anytime after recording.

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Old 05-24-2017, 12:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post
You can't record the "voices" in MIDI. You are only recording/capturing the MIDI messages (notes, velocity/loudness, and timing).

You need to find virtual instruments (VSTi's) that you like, then you play-back those virtual instruments.

There are ship-loads of virtual instruments available (both free and commercial) but you may not find exact-matches for your piano voices.

...The advantage, of course, is that you can change the virtual instruments anytime after recording.
Thank You DVDdough - this is what I was afraid of. It means that I can't get the same sound as when I first played the music. I have tried several VST instruments - only free ones yet - and it sounds different. I had an idea that maybe it was possible to copy Yamaha's VST (or whatever they use).
So it means 1) start to hunt good VSTs or 2) return to wave-recording.
Thanks for your time anyway!
RMO
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Old 05-24-2017, 01:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMO View Post
...
So it means 1) start to hunt good VSTs or 2) return to wave-recording.
...
To 1) This is one way.

To 2) Nope.

What your problem will solve is doing the following:

- Record MIDI
- Edit MIDI
- Play MIDI back via MIDI in of your piano
- Record that played back MIDI as WAV.

You will end up with the MIDI-track(s) and your recorded piano, so you can later go back and change or edit different things in the MIDI and record again. You can do the same for the bass.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by haervo View Post
To 1) This is one way.

To 2) Nope.

What your problem will solve is doing the following:

- Record MIDI
- Edit MIDI
- Play MIDI back via MIDI in of your piano
- Record that played back MIDI as WAV.

You will end up with the MIDI-track(s) and your recorded piano, so you can later go back and change or edit different things in the MIDI and record again. You can do the same for the bass.
Hi Haervo - thanks for caring!
Maybe you mean the same as I thought a little while ago:

New angle: What if I completely forget about the Yamaha's "voices"? And turn things around: Find a good piano-VST and a good Upright Bass VST. Load them in Reaper and play them "live" from the piano, letting them use the piano's "soundcard" (to avoid Microsoft's soundcard). Then I record the piano track1 as MIDI and the bass track2 as MIDI. Then edit the MIDIs. Then play track1 + track2 back to the piano and capture it from there as wave.
This would mean that the sounds I play "live" on the piano will be a kind of identical to those on the final recording.
It's not elegant, seems clumsy but might make me happy - if it works.
Will it?
I may try it to morrow, it's night in Sweden now.
Best greetings,
RMO
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMO View Post
...
New angle: What if I completely forget about the Yamaha's "voices"? And turn things around: Find a good piano-VST and a good Upright Bass VST. Load them in Reaper and play them "live" from the piano, letting them use the piano's "soundcard" (to avoid Microsoft's soundcard). Then I record the piano track1 as MIDI and the bass track2 as MIDI. Then edit the MIDIs. Then play track1 + track2 back to the piano and capture it from there as wave.
This would mean that the sounds I play "live" on the piano will be a kind of identical to those on the final recording.
It's not elegant, seems clumsy but might make me happy - if it works.
Will it?
...
Its not clumsy at all. Except for the things you dont need to do to get to your goal.

Using VSTis is the way to go. You record your MIDI from your keyboard, the piano and the bass, put the according VSTi on the appropriate track and you are done.

You dont need to capture the audio on another track. Leave it as it is. If you want to make an audio from it to listen to aside from Reaper or to upload it or to give it as a gift to nayone... render it - that means: record the whole shebang to your harddrive as wav, flac, mp3, whatever. Thats what DAWs are for. :-)
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:12 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by DVDdoug View Post
You can't record the "voices" in MIDI. You are only recording/capturing the MIDI messages (notes, velocity/loudness, and timing).
To be clear the recorded MIDI can contain voice information (PC or Program Control messages). But the problem you have is that your Yamaha can only play one voice at a time. So you could get it to play in any of its voices but you can't tell it to be a piano AND a bass all at the same time.

Using the Yamaha just as a MIDI controller and VSTs to produce the actual sounds is really a lot easier.

Steve
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:35 AM   #8
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@ haervo: Thanks for these details - I shall do some research today, try to find som good sounds, an do some tests. See if it works.

@ slipstick: Thanks for this information. This is what I thought from the very beginning (according to som reading I did), exept I did not know that the piano can't handle more than one voice. Very usefull knowledge - makes the choise easier.

RMO
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:17 PM   #9
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Hi and welcome.
I have nothing to add to other suggestions except to mention two things: firstly as your stated reason for using MIDI was to correct errors etc. I just wondered had you fully explored the whole technique of Stretch Markers and associated techniques. This is a very powerful technique for audio.

Secondly you might be interested to know that someone offers a MIDI yo piano conversion facility: http://getrealpiano.com/

It is really expensive however!

Good luck with whatever option you take.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:02 PM   #10
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You can render the piano to wav while maintaining the original MIDI in case you need further corrections later. The same with the bass. Playing the bass MIDI with the piano wav track to listen to both at the same time. Its strange that it can't play more than one MIDI channel at the same time.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:18 PM   #11
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Hi RMO and welcome here!
Have you tried the "Dual Mode" of the Piano? I had a quick look at the manual and the P105 should be able to play back at least 2 voices if not more at the same time. It looks like you can assign up to 16 MIDI channels to it (set it to Multi-Timbre-Receive).

But you also have to set up the piano not only to send, but also receive MIDI-Data from a PC. I think that is not activated by default in the piano.

Start recording your piano track in REAPER, but before you play, select the voice again like you normally do. This sends the right ProgramChange to REAPER and that will be recorded. Same with your bass track. When you now play back the tracks, the right PC (ProgramChange) is sent to the P105.
To confirm this, open the MIDI-Editor of your piano track, find the PC (should be 1) in the Event List and change it to e.g. #19 (Rock Organ). Play back and the piano should be played with Organ sound.
Or you can insert ProgramChanges in the MIDI-Editor manually to select a sound/voice/patch. Look at the MIDI-Reference Manual of the Yamaha to find the numbers you need. (should be #1 for Piano and #33 for the Wood Bass)

To clarify: talking about "voices" means the preset sounds of the piano, not any recorded wav's, am I right? Other manufacturers call it "Patch", "Sound" "Layers" or whatever...

I hope that helps for the moment to get your system working and to use it with the equipment you have right now, because finding the right VSTi's is a very time consuming thing.
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Old 05-26-2017, 03:03 AM   #12
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Thanks for all welcomes, thoughts and suggestions!

@ martifingers: I didn't know about Stretch Markers for audio. Having checked right now on YT, I recognize the concept from video editing; seems to be working handy and better than cutting and fiddling.
But it can't help me, I think, if I happen to play a G in stead of an A and want to repair that. Does a "Pitch Strech Marker" exist for audio? Or something like that? Would be nice.
About the Grand Piano with MIDI-functionality, I have in fact seen this, but not studied it in depth - it's beyond my budget. But I am sure it's nice too.

@ heda: I have tried a solution similar to your suggestion. But I am forced to include a VSTi as soon as I have recorded as MIDI - and that's OK, but if I want to use the Yamaha's built-in sound in stead of an external VSTi, I am getting problems - I think that the Piano (as a controller) doesn't communicate well enough with the computer. I am using the Piano's Sounds/synth, and have deactivated the Microsoft Wave Synth. So at playback I am getting a dry standard pianosound - neither Grand Piano nor Wood Bass sound. Anyway, thanks for the idea!

@ Pet: I think you may be on to a solution here. It's a little over my beginner head, but it feels right. I had not tried the "Dual Mode" before. So I tried it today. It just plays two "voices" at the same time ("Voice" meaning sound, flavour, yes). It does not sound very good, but it does it! And over all the piano keys. So the Yamaha can play two "voices" at the same time - it's just, that after the traffic from the piano to the computer/Reaper and back to the piano, the "voice" gets lost.
So I beleve that the ajustments you mention needs to be done. The problem is now that I know too little. Yet. I shall google this to really understand "Program Change" and also what this means: "you can assign up to 16 MIDI channels to it (set it to Multi-Timbre-Receive)". (I think that I might already have done the Multi-Timbre-thing - without knowing the word Multi-Timbre - but to be sure). And the "Or you can insert ProgramChanges in the MIDI-Editor manually to select a sound/voice/patch" is over my head. Not way over, but I need to understand things to be sure. But I shall fix it!
This is very interesting - I am getting the feeling of a happy end here - if not today, then maybe tomorrow!

Thank you all for your time!
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Old 05-26-2017, 04:46 AM   #13
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Hi RMO,
sorry for being too technical. You can do the following easy steps to see if the Piano receives Data from REAPER:
  • start recording only one track and change a voice while recording
  • play some notes
  • change the voice to s.th. really different
  • play some notes again
  • stop recording
After that set the voice manually again to another sound (ideally another one than the two you just recorded).
Start Playback in REAPER and the P105 should change the sounds as you recorded it. If not, start searching for VSTi's NOW! No, just kidding!

Try that and report what's happening. If it does not receive the recording, check the manuals you have from the piano to set it up for this "Multi-Timbre-Receive"...I got this term from the german manual, sorry.

Meanwhile I'll search my Firefox bookmarks for english MIDI sites, I of course have mainly german ones.

PS: Program Change is the MIDI-term for telling your P105 to switch from voice x to y. You'll understand that soon.
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Old 05-26-2017, 07:54 AM   #14
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Hi again Pet!
I did exactly as you suggested and all went fine. I now have a MIDI-track playing a sequense of different "Voices" - all coming from the piano and sounding good!
What do I do now?
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:26 AM   #15
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Well done! Now you can try to record more tracks with the same procedure and different voices. You should be able to record up to 16 tracks (as there are 16 MIDI channels) with the P105. That's what was meant by "you can assign up to 16 MIDI channels to it (set it to Multi-Timbre-Receive)".

For changing the MIDI notes you can double-click the MIDI item (or hit ctrl+alt+E) to open the MIDI-Editor where you can adjust the MIDI-Events like notes, ProgramChanges and so on.

As promised, I looked at my bookmarks (a good occasion to clean them up a bit ) and did some search in the internet. It's hard for someone who is new to all this and doesn't know the exact terms you have to search for. So here are my recommendations:There's a lot to learn, but it's worth it! Have fun and ask again, if necessary!
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Old 05-26-2017, 08:36 AM   #16
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You have proved that the sound your piano plays can be changed by MIDI using PC messages. But I think we already knew that.

I'll be interested to see what comes next because I've had a look at the P105 manuals and I can't see any way of getting it to receive more than one MIDI channel which what you need. You can set the one channel to be any of the 16 MIDI channels but you can't have more than one. And the English language manual doesn't mention anything like "Multi-Timbre-Receive" though changing voices through Program Change can be switched on and off.

Manually you can layer two sounds (play the same note in 2 voices at the same time) and you can split the keyboard so that the low notes have one voice and high ones a different voice but I can't see any way to control either of those over MIDI.

This is getting interesting.

Steve
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:04 AM   #17
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IT WORKS!!!

Fantastic - just the sound I want!

Thank you sooo very much!

And the only differense I can see from what I did yesterday and to what you suggested today is the little trick to change the "voice" when Rec has started. You must be some kind of a genious!
That way Reaper seems to wake up and register what is going on! And delivers! Nice!

Thanks also for the links you recommend - very helpfull!

This evening the sun seems to shine extra pretty here on the lovely beaches of Malmoe, Sweden.

RMO.
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Old 05-26-2017, 10:17 AM   #18
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Hey Steve,
that "Multi-timbre" Receive is mentioned in the MIDI Reference document I also downloaded. I'm curious too. It's the part about the Transmit/Receive channels. Copied from there:
Quote:
ALL:
“Multi-timbre” Receive. This allows simultaneous reception of different parts on all 16 MIDI channels, enabling the instrument to play multi-channel song data received from a computer.
1+2:
“1+2” Receive. This allows simultaneous reception on channels 1 and 2 only, enabling the instrument to play 1 and 2 channel song data received from a computer.
Quote:
In Dual, Split or Duo, Voice 1 data is transmitted on its specified channel and Voice 2 data is transmitted on the next greater channel number relative to the specified channel. ...
The "ALL" thingy made me assume that it should at least play back more than two voices.
What do you think?

[EDIT:] Oh, while typing, RMO posted...
@RMO Yipppie! And you did that with more than two tracks and instruments? Anyway, I'm happy that you're happy!
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Old 05-26-2017, 12:07 PM   #19
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Ah yes, those notes at the side of the page. But I couldn't see how you set ALL: or 1+2: mode. But then back in the main "Owner's Manual" it does say that it is always in "Multi Timbre" mode.

Well spotted. So it should do everything RMO wants. Sorry for the misinformation.

Steve
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:25 PM   #20
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Hi Steve,
don't feel sorry for your information on the MIDI-voice matter.
It's all a question of interaction.
I posed a question that might seem a bit naive to most people because "everybody knows what MIDI can and cannot do".
It was therefore a great pleasure to see all the wonderfull attempts to attack this unortodox question - all had their own honest and best conviction. This started all the thinking. That led to the conclusion. Isn't that how science works?
I hope that the result will help a lot of home recorders to a happier recording life - it certainly will help the thread creator
All the best, and thanks to everybody,
RMO.
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Old 05-26-2017, 02:30 PM   #21
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Well said^^^. Wise words.
Those questions are not naiv at all. These are beginner's questions we all asked once upon a time. We all started at Zero.
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Old 05-28-2017, 08:27 AM   #22
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I am back! One shall not celebrate and be happy before *all* problems are solved. So here comes a couple of new questions. I have read a lot of manuals and checked the internet all day, but I can't seem to find the answers.

Status: I have a MIDI track with my P105 Yamaha + the Grand Piano "voice". It works! But it has too much reverb. Also, when I try to render this MIDI-file to a wave-file in Reaper (to listen to it through a better amplification), I get an empty/silent wave-file. How do I make Reaper accept the output from the Piano-synth as the active one (activated in Preferences/MIDI)(and the MS-synth is off) and use it for rendering the wave-file? (I have tried to get around the problem by connecting the wave-output to an audio line-in and captured the audio to Audacity. I get a wavefile which is playable, but has too much reverb - and some noise too. So it's not very enjoyable).

I hope that getting a better rendering *directly* from the MIDI might solve the noise problem. But the reverb has to be handled too - would it be possible to get rid of some of the reverb by editing the MIDI? I have read about a # 91 reverb thing which maybe could be manipulated in the MIDI? - but I don't like the idea of solving a problem by adding a new one.

Any help is very much appreciated.

RMO.
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Old 05-28-2017, 09:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMO View Post
...Also, when I try to render this MIDI-file to a wave-file in Reaper (to listen to it through a better amplification), I get an empty/silent wave-file...
You can't render it this way. MIDI data are data. Imagine the MIDI data as a light switch when you enter a room. The switch tells the bulb what to do. And the MIDI data just tell your P105, what to do - play back the data/orders it receives. Therefore you can't render these data, see below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMO View Post
...I have tried to get around the problem by connecting the wave-output to an audio line-in and captured the audio to Audacity...
Good! This is the way how it works. But instead of Audacity make a new track in REAPER, set it up to record audio (like you may have done in Audacity) and record the audio output of your piano within REAPER.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RMO View Post
But the reverb has to be handled too - would it be possible to get rid of some of the reverb by editing the MIDI? I have read about a # 91 reverb thing which maybe could be manipulated in the MIDI?
You're getting closer and closer ! Now imagine that you don't have a switch in your room that just turns the light fully on/off, but a "dimmer" that controls the brightness of the bulb...a controller...ehm...maybe a midi controller...maybe a ContinuosController? Insert or record a CC #91 with a value between 0 and 127.

PS: connecting the AUX OUT or PHONES jacks of the P105 to a stereo amplifier will give you better sound than the built in speakers of the piano.
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Old 05-28-2017, 03:08 PM   #24
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Thank you, Pet.
I appreciate your help. Unfortunately I must admit that this CC #91 which I am to "insert" or "record" is not my friend tonight. After 6 hours of googling I still have no luck. There doesn't seem to be any description on my level of how to get a lower reverb in Reaper. I'll try again tomorrow.
Thanks,
RMO
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Old 05-28-2017, 06:15 PM   #25
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Hi RMO,
every beginning is hard. But there's no need to spend so much time with googling, cause everything you need as a beginner (and advanced) is right in front of you. At the top of every forum page you can see the links to the free videos and the free User Guide (I assume you already downloaded the User Guide). I really, really recommend to watch the videos, especially the "numbered" ones, they will answer a lot of your questions. You can even download them and watch them any time you want.

Let's get back to your "not-yet-friend" CC#91.
You already recorded MIDI. Open the MIDI-Editor by double-clicking the recorded item. The following is covered in the User Guide in Chapter 13.6, a helpful picture is on page 229.
  • Click the little "+" at the "CC Select Dropdown" to add a CC Lane, then click on that new field and scroll down to "91 Effects Level". This is now the lane for your Reverb-Control. (see page 231)
  • A double-click in this lane inserts a Control Change #91. The height of the bar shows the amount of your Reverb. The higher, the more Reverb.
That's it. This Controller Event tells your P105 to set the Reverb to that value.
You can drag the bar to the start of the track, so that the Reverb is there right from the beginning of your recording.

From now on you have a new friend, I hope.
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:29 AM   #26
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Hi Pet!

My God! Was it that simple?! I have been there, in the lane. Many times, yesterday. But it never occured to me that I could dubbelklick on it
Your help is gold!

I shall download the videos and study them. I like written information better though, and I use the forum for dedicated information - but of course - Reaper is big - I miss a lot that way. Thanks for pointing out!

About audio recording to a track in Reaper instead of Audacity: I have tried that but got into trouble. Maybe because of the HP EliteBook I use - with all its exotic laptop solutions for audio preferences, in combination with Windows7's Sound preferences - it is a jungle. When you get it to work, you want to never change it again.

To work around this I use a Behringer302USB which has a USB-driver to use as input in the audio Preferences of the actual audio Sound device (I use it on a Linux partition for its driver).

This means one USB connection from the Piano to the computer and another USB connection from the Behringer, to the same computer. And it won't work, it seems. Thats why I used another HP Elitebook, with Audacity on it, for audio caption. And got som noise too

I do have a "real" computer too - with a lot of muscles. I have built it for video production with Premiere. It is BIG and the distance to the piano is more than 3 m - maybe 6-7 meters. That's too long for MIDI connection (MIDI-USB). At least according to what I have "Duckduckgo'ed"/googled. Is this true? Is it possible to use some kind of repeater? It's much simpler to use a "real" computer for (heavy) rendering, than to fiddle with small consumer laptops.
Anyway - back to my new Reaper friend
Thanks,
RMO.
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
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To work around this I use a Behringer302USB which has a USB-driver to use as input in the audio Preferences of the actual audio Sound device (I use it on a Linux partition for its driver).

This means one USB connection from the Piano to the computer and another USB connection from the Behringer, to the same computer. And it won't work, it seems. Thats why I used another HP Elitebook, with Audacity on it, for audio caption.
If you want to use both USB devices via ASIO driver at the same time, you can try making an Aggregated Audio device of both via ASIO4ALL (and select this as audio device in Reaper).
General hints about ASIO4ALL setup and troubleshooting can be found here: https://www.image-line.com/support/F...s_asio4all.htm

Otherwise you can also try using WASAPI in shared mode as audio device and select available inputs and outputs there.


As a side note: Audacity has a 'software playthrough' feature which allows to hear audio from an USB audio device through the internal (sound card) speakers: http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/r...urntables.html. That's probably why it's working there.

Last edited by solger; 05-29-2017 at 03:18 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-29-2017, 03:15 AM   #28
RMO
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Hi Solger!
Thanks for the idea! It may come handy at a later time - but right now I just want to keep it simple (as long as I'm a learning Reaper newbe). And the solution I am trying to get to work right now, does not need ASIO to lower the latency - there is no latency
But sooner or later I will sure need it. Just a matter of time.
And then I shall think of this!
Thanks for helping!
RMO

Appendix: I have now tested the Wasapi/Shared mode. Unfortunately I couldn't make that work either.

Last edited by RMO; 05-29-2017 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:20 AM   #29
RMO
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Hi all!

Allow me to wake up my thread again.
I have during the past two weeks managed to create usable results, recording my P-105 Yamaha as a Grand piano (#1) and in another track a Wood Bass (#33).
It works.

But I have been forced to use some workaround to separate the two voices from each other.
The workaround was to edit the two MIDI tracs separately in Reaper's MIDI-editor. No problem, but I had to isolate the tracks to make them keep their respective voices.
If I do not isolate them they seem to want to use the same voice.

After isolation and editing, I rendered both tracks separately in Reaper to two wave-files - which I transferred to Audacity, and made an artificial stereo-track, with piano in one channel and bass in the other. This sounds surprisingly well - kind of 50'es pingpong stereoish. But it is rather heavy-worked.

So:
Say I have a piano voice-track1
and a wood bass voice-track2
They are both listed with the correct PC# - #1 and #33 in the MIDI-editor.
Say that the piano plays alone in the intro. That is on track1. At some point the bass is beginning on track2.

At "this point" there is a little marker in the MIDI track, from when I chose the Wood Bass-voice in track2 - and after that point, *both* voices sound Wood Bass. There is no piano voice after the "point" even on track1 (where no such "point" exists). And as said: they are both listed correctly with the correct PC number.

I suppose that there should be a way of separating the "instruments" through choosing "right" channels from the beginning at the MIDI recording in Reaper.
I have played with this "Timbre" - but with no succes. I guess I don't fully understand "the tecnology" here.
I sure should greatly appreciate a little help on this tiny detail.
Which channels should I chose?

Happy summer greetings!
RMO
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:52 AM   #30
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I'm glad you're getting this working.

For your different voices, I understand you have two tracks, one Piano, the other Bass each with the correct PC messages. So you should just need to make sure they are sending on different MIDI channels. Have you done that?

If not, select a track and in MIDI editor/Event List mode Edit/Select all then right click Set event channel. It shouldn't matter what channel numbers you use provided the two tracks have different numbers.

Steve
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:15 AM   #31
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Hey RMO it's nice to see your development!

In addition to slipstick/steve (his method is "real" MIDI editing), you can do the following to control the playback behaviour:
  • Click the "Route" button on your track 1
    => at "MIDI Hardware Output" select your P105
    => at "Send to original channels" select "Send to channel 1".
  • Do the same with your track 2, use the same "MIDI Hardware Output", but this time "Send to channel 2".
Next:
  • Select track 1 and in the Main Menu click on "Track"
    => go to "MIDI track controls"
    => select "Link track volume/pan to MIDI channel 1"
  • Again do the same with your track 2, but select "Link track volume/pan to MIDI channel 2"
Now you can use the Volume/Pan Controls on the TCP to control your P105 while playing back. No need for the audio rendering thingy any more. I think it is self explaining what you have done in REAPER with the above steps.
The big advantage is that if you record more tracks, set them this way (according Track3/Link to Ch3, Track4/Ch4 and so on) and it doesn't matter which MIDI channel is recorded.

Hope that helps for now.
You can do much more with "ReaControlMIDI", if you want to go further, but for the moment try the steps above.

Have fun,
Peter
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Old 06-18-2017, 03:23 PM   #32
RMO
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@ Steve
@ Peter
Thank you SOOO much. Both solutions are working like a charm!
This is amazing.
It's so simple when you point out these things.
Thanks again!
Much obliged,
Rolf
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Old 06-27-2017, 01:09 PM   #33
RMO
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Hi again.

The piano/voice solution still works well!
But I have a question on reverb. Having searched information about this subject at Wikipedia and other sites, I mainly learned that reverberation is a BIG subject. And rather complicated.

The case is this:
When I play the Grand Piano sound on my P-105 Yamaha, it sounds good and right - even reverbwise.
Same for the other voices, including the Wood Bass - they too sound ok - including the reverbs.

The piano has a setting for Reverb Room size (Living room, Concert hall etc). And for the Reverb depth too. I have never touched these settings because they are fine as they are. According to the Yamaha Piano Manual these settings are changing automatically when different voices are being played.

So one can change this but I have not, because I'm trying to keep all of this simple - and changing the instrument settings all the time is a kind of disturbing, I think.

Ok. When I then record to Reaper via MIDI to end up with a wave rendering audio file - I have more reverb than I had from the beginning just playing the piano.

And this is the main problem.

Is there a logical explanation for this addition - and *is* it an addition? I don't know and could not solve it Duckduckgoing. The "addition" is there even if there is only one track = one instrument, for instance the Grand Piano.
I can easily get rid of all the heavy reverb by introducin the CC #91 reverb effekt in the MIDI-editor.

But that led to other problems including people wanting the heavy reverb back! They think it sounds better. I think it sounds better to reduce the reverb a great deal. And one could allways add some reverb to the audio, not remove some. So... I don't know. Suggestions? Nobody is right I suppose. "Whose" ears should one trust?

This brings up this question: Is there a measurement for the original (heavy) reverb that I put into the Reaper MIDI editor in the first place? I mean, when I insert the CC #91 reverb effect in the Lane, does this start the reverb all over from 0 to 127 to chose from? So if I had a value of say 70 before the #91 effect, does the 70-effect disappear, totally substituted by the #91 effect?

And how do I know if the original value is 70 (I just guessed here for a suggestion)? Is there a value for this somewhere in the editor?

Last Q: Is this #91 a Room Reverb or a Depth or is it a mixture of these?

So, it all works but is not very easy to grasp, all of it - I guess that maybe it is not supposed to be an exact science. After all it is music we are playing with, isn't it?

Any lightshed on some of this will be greatly appreciated

Best summer greetings,
Rolf.

Edit: I forgot this: How much reverb is commonly (as an approximation) added to a Grand Piano standard playing in a standard living room (not a Concert hall)? Is there an answer to such a question?

Last edited by RMO; 06-27-2017 at 01:20 PM.
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