Old 10-26-2008, 11:07 AM   #1
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Arrow Configuring Multi-Output VSTis

Regrettably ImageShack had whacked all the images. I found the images on my computer here and have uploaded them to imgur.

Here is my own view of setting up multi-output (and multi-timbral) VSTis in Reaper 2. Nicholas has included a version of this in the User Guide and I thought that it would be useful to make the full version available.

I will describe three methods below. The "Fast-track" method is the way to choose for your first venture into multi-output VSTi routing.
  • the "Fast-track" method,
  • separate MIDI Input and Audio Output tracks,
  • combined MIDI Input and Audio Output tracks.

-----------------------------------------------------------
hopi has written a PDF guide to Multi-Out VSTis, for newcomers. You can download it from this thread:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=114241

-----------------------------------------------------------
There is a separate thread, for questions and comments, here:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=74278
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 06-19-2015 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Note about the images
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 11:07 AM   #2
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default The "Fast Track" approach [Kontakt 3]

1 Load the VSTi.
Right-click in an empty area of the track control panel, select "Insert virtual instrument on new track".
The FX Browser will appear. Browse to your desired VSTi, double-click it to load it (I am using Kontakt 3, 8 outputs here).

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/QvCTiiq.png

Reaper will report that it is about to build the output audio tracks for this VSTi; click [OK].
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/TZqdWLL.png

2 You now have a single MIDI input track for the VSTi and the VSTi's output audio tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/NymCe7l.png

3 Here is the Routing panel (click [io] on the VSTi track):
- you will see that Master/Parent Send is unticked, so any audio is not sent to the Master Mixer,
- and that the channel pairs are sent to the 4 audio tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/6iMnd7j.png

4 All you have to do now is load the Instruments in the VSTi; in Kontakt 3:
- load each Instrument,
- set its input MIDI Channel, if needed,
- create the additional Kontakt Mixer channels if needed,
- set its Output to the desired Kontakt 3 Mixer channel,
- configure the Kontakt 3 Mixer, if needed, routing its output channels to the Reaper track's channels.

5 Here I am playing 2 instruments in Kontakt 3 with their audio outputs routed to Reaper tracks 2 and 4.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/uYYG3lR.png
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 07-25-2014 at 03:25 AM. Reason: replaced first pic, was 404ed
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 11:08 AM   #3
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default ... and there's more

That's the basics. Some other things you can do are:

1 Colour the audio tracks and hide the VSTi track in the Mixer:
- select the tracks, right-click and select untick "Set track colors to one random color",
- select the VSTi track, right-click and untick "Show selected tracks in Mixer",
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/D9q6vSY.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/MXZMA44.png

2 Build separate MIDI Input tracks for this VSTi:
- in the FX window, click [Options] and select "Build 16 channels of MIDI routing for this track"
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/iHrMuVf.png

This would be the current Routing panel for the VSTi track:
- you will see that the track now receives MIDI Input from each of 16 tracks,
- note that all the MIDI received on each MIDI track is sent to a specific channel for that track.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/M85GbEW.png

3 Manage the MIDI tracks:
Put the MIDI Tracks in one folder, name the folder, colour the tracks and hide them in the Mixer,
- insert a new track before the first MIDI track,
- click the folder icon once to set that track to Folder Start,
- insert a new track after the last MIDI track,
- click the folder icon once to set that track to Folder End,
- double-click the folder track name and edit it,
- select all 18 tracks, right-click and select a track colour,
- right-click again and untick "Show selected tracks in Mixer".

4 Enable Keyboard input for the MIDI tracks:
- click the Record [R] button on the VSTi track to turn it off,
- select all 16 MIDI tracks,
- click the Record [R] button to expand them,
- click the Recording Monitoring button to turn on Input monitoring for all 16 tracks,
- for each track, set the MIDI input channel, from 01 to 16,
- click the Record [R] button again to collapse the tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/GaM0kim.png

5 Manage the audio tracks:
- put the audio tracks in a second folder, name the folder and colour the tracks,
- colour the Folder Start track differently to make it distinct in the mixer,
- hide the Folder End track in the mixer.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/9NqHTYo.png

6 And finally:
Save the tracks as a track template.

7 Here I have enabled for Recording MIDI channels 1 and 3 only. In Kontakt the instruments are routed to its mixer channels 1 and 3, and from there to the track's channel pair 1/2 and 5/6 and thence to tracks 21 and 23. I have also collapsed both the MIDI and Audio folders in the track control area.

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/hfqoAAv.png
.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 07-25-2014 at 03:34 AM.
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 11:09 AM   #4
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default The "Fast Track" approach [SampleTank 2.5]

And here are the equivalent steps for SampleTank2.5 (32 outputs, 16 stereo channels). Yes, I know it's almost Bugatti blue but I prefer that to the Ferrari red default.

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/pumYwze.png

.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Yqdzur7.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/HZJCZVY.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/esWbgPm.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/A60fDng.png

.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/W3IQCJy.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/ALIIXKS.png
.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 07-25-2014 at 03:41 AM.
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 11:09 AM   #5
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default Separate MIDI Input and Audio Out tracks [Kontakt 3]

1 Load the VSTi onto a track:
I am using the 8-output version of Kontakt 3 here (4 stereo channels).
Click the [FX] button which opens the FX Browser, browse to the VSTi, double-click it to load it.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/wrW2GZC.png

2 Build 16 tracks of MIDI input and, for each track, select the MIDI input device/channel:
In the FX Chain window, click [Options] select "Build 16 channels of MIDI routing to this track".
For each of the MIDI tracks, right-click the Record [R] button, select the MIDI input device and channel.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/jwYGLXK.png

3 Build the multichannel output for the audio routing, resulting in 4 output tracks:
In the FX Chain window, click [Options] select "Build multichannel routing for output of selected FX".
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/mmWsPSR.png

4 Minimise the tracks so you can see them all:
You will now have the VSTi track, the audio output tracks and the MIDI input tracks.
Press ` to minimise them all and rename them suitably, by double clicking the existing track name and typing in the desired name.

5 Configure the routing inside the VSTi; for Kontakt 3:
- create the additional Kontakt Mixer channels if needed,
- connect each Kontakt Mixer channel to the appropriate VSTi Reaper outputs,
- route each Instrument to the desired Kontakt mixer channel.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Bryg488.png

6 Put all the tracks in a folder:
Add a track in front of the Kontakt 3 VSTi track and one after the last track. Set the Folder start and end settings on these two tracks.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/hVB8bDb.png

7 You can also remove all the MIDI input tracks and the VSTi track from the Mixer:
As these tracks do not output any audio, they do not need to be represented in the Mixer.
Select the tracks, right-click and untick "Show selected tracks in Mixer".
.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/v3k3ocW.png

8 Or you could put the MIDI Ins in one folder and the VSTi and Audio outs in another.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/R1Z7Ngs.png

Here I have put the VSTi and audio tracks (coloured green) in one folder, the MIDI Input tracks (coloured rose) in another. I am playing my MIDI keyboard on channel 2, receiving those notes on Reaper track "MIDI 2" and have routed this to trigger the third instrument in Kontakt, sending the audio to its third Mixerchannel (named st.3) which is routed to the third audio output track ("Kt st.3 L) and from there to the Master mixer.

Finally, and most importantly, save the setup as a Track Template. Select ALL the tracks, right-click, select "Save selected tracks as track template", enter a name and click [Save].
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 07-25-2014 at 04:21 AM.
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 11:10 AM   #6
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default Separate MIDI Input and Audio Out tracks [SampleTank 2.5]

Here's the same thing using SampleTank 2.5.

Note that I renamed the audio tracks so that their names would display in the Mixer. In real life these track names would reflect the instruments loaded in the VSTi.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/UgPq9Jh.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/nJ5L6Rw.png

.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/uZxxyD8.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/v6csJTv.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/9cf4D2e.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/mK1Ap6x.png
.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 07-25-2014 at 04:30 AM.
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 11:10 AM   #7
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default Combined MIDI / Audio tracks [SampleTank 2.

You can also combine the input MIDI and output audio tracks. My thanks to Tallisman for defining this method.

Please note that Plugin Delay Compensation (PDC) and Feedback Routing are not compatible. If any plugins in your project introduce delay then the timing of this VSTi's track will be off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
Please note:
The Feedback Routing Track Templates for VSTis were originally created as a stop-gap. A way to lessen the track count since we were not able to nest folders, nor hide tracks from the TCP.

Now we can nest folders and thanks to SWS' amazing extension we can hide tracks 'till the cows come home. So the only real advantage of AFBR Track templates for VSTis is gone... the real disadvantage remains however... PDC will break. If you want to treat the audio of one of those VSTi outputs... better make sure you are using a plugin that introduces no delay.
Also, please read this, from Justin:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=51

-------------------------------------

1 Load the VSTi onto a track:
I am using the 32-output version of SampleTank 2 here (16 stereo channels). I have loaded 4 instruments and set their outputs within SampleTank to different ST output channel pairs.

2 Build 16 tracks of MIDI input and, for each track, rename each track and select the MIDI input device/channel:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Tn6Xxkk.png

3 Build the additional Send routing, from the VSTi track back to the "MIDI" tracks:
Click the [io] button on the VSTi track, select "Add Sends to all tracks" in the "Add new send menu".
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/QgNzXub.png

4 Route the audio from the VSTi track:
Click the [io] button. In the track routing window, change the number of channels on the track to match those available within the VSTi, 32 in this case. For each of the sends that you added in the previous step, 16 in this case, change the Send source to the next pair of audio channels, 3/4, 5/6 etc.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/dS7n3hc.png

5 Enable "feedback":
This is important. At the moment, the signal routing is MIDI keyboard > MIDI > track > VSTi > audio > back to the same track. Reaper views this as potential feedback and, by default, does not allow it.

To enable this routing, click the Project Settings icon (or press lt+Enter), select the Project Settings tab and tick "Allow feedback in routing", then OK].
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/BfRGVMv.png

Note that in this case there is no audio feedback loop. But when you add further tracks to your project double-check that you do not introduce any audio routing loops, by viewing the Routing Matrix. Audio feedback loops can damage your monitors or ears or both.

6 Route the audio to the Master Mixer,
Select all the tracks, click the [io] button and enable Master/Parent Send to route the audio to the Master Mixer channel.
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/iLR1eXN.png

7 Save it as a track template.

And here's the result:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/EJpcgvh.png

I am playing my MIDI keyboard on channel 4, receiving those MIDI notes on Reaper track "ST2.5 D", sending them to SampleTank 2.5 to trigger the Taurus Smooth Lead instrument, sending the audio to SampleTank's channels 7+8 which are routed to the track's Audio 7/8 channels which are then sent to track "ST2.5 D" and then to the Master Mixer.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 01-14-2015 at 05:14 AM. Reason: ... added link to Justin, on PDC
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2008, 11:29 AM   #8
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Smile

From stratman:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratman View Post
Below is a link to a pdf containing some notes I've written on using GPO Kontakt Player 2 as a multi in Reaper. But the notes are probably relevant to any multi in Kontakt Player 2 (KP2) and Kontakt 2 (K2).

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/150386/...-In-Reaper.pdf

I needed to write it down, otherwise I know I'll forget in a few months (it must be my age) . It might be of use to someone else out there.

Let me know if you spot any errors or if you know of a better way.

There are a lot of pages, but it's mostly pictures. Also, it's much easier to do in practice that in looks when it's written down.
Pete
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 11-09-2009 at 04:26 AM.
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2008, 12:18 PM   #9
MichaJo
Human being with feelings
 
MichaJo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,767
Default Darkstar's "Configuring Multi-Output VSTis" Discussion Area

I don't know if it's okay to post in this thread so please, if not, delete it.
But i think this thread is great.
Since i'm here in the forum i've read so much threads with questions concerning just this issue. (Mine too).
So i think just read this thread and don't ever ask again. (Me too)
Thanks!
MichaJo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2008, 08:30 AM   #10
DaBok
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 7
Default

Darkstar,

This thread was most helpfull to me. I struggled a while with the routing at first, but that was before I discovered this very usefull thread.

Thanks a lot!
DaBok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2008, 10:19 AM   #11
Grenoybel
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5
Default

Tks for the tutorials

I have a question, is it just me or when using the Combined MIDI / Audio tracks method, when looping it glitches on the begining of the loop


Take Care
Grenoybel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2008, 10:58 AM   #12
cubdukat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13
Default

Okay, I've tried this approach, but it doesn't seem to be working.

I am using VI.one which uses Kontakt Player 2, loading it onto one track as a virtual instrument, and from there creating 16 separate MIDI channels. Thr problem is that when I set up the individual sounds for each of the MIDI channels and go to those channels in Reaper, I can't hear anything.

Surely there's something I'm missing here...
cubdukat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 06:07 PM   #13
politcat
Human being with feelings
 
politcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: stuck in transition
Posts: 1,840
Default

Combined MIDI / Audio tracks works well (ST2), except that my speakers crackle a lot when I set the Master/Parent Send for each track and project feedback

any ideas what causes that?
politcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 01:25 PM   #14
cubdukat
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cubdukat View Post
Okay, I've tried this approach, but it doesn't seem to be working.

I am using VI.one which uses Kontakt Player 2, loading it onto one track as a virtual instrument, and from there creating 16 separate MIDI channels. Thr problem is that when I set up the individual sounds for each of the MIDI channels and go to those channels in Reaper, I can't hear anything.

Surely there's something I'm missing here...
Turns out there was. I forgot to make those MIDI tracks feed back into the track VI.one was set up on. Now it works just fine. Unfortunately, I've just run up against another brick wall--the Audigy 2 ZS makes a lousy sound card for pro purposes.

I'm investigating what card to get now. It doesn't have to be anything fancy; it just has to work in both Windows and Linux, be fairly recent and play nice with Reaper.
cubdukat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 05:48 PM   #15
elmcity
Human being with feelings
 
elmcity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 52
Default

thx guys,
i hope this helps
elmcity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 04:48 PM   #16
brainwreck
Human being with feelings
 
brainwreck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The 90's
Posts: 18,085
Default

this thing should be stickied in the general discussion area.
brainwreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 08:45 PM   #17
JMills
Human being with feelings
 
JMills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 86
Default

This is the most helpful thread in the history of the universe. Many thanks, DarkStar!!
JMills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 08:57 PM   #18
Solar
Human being with feelings
 
Solar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,297
Default Great job!

Thanx a lot Darkstar for the great job and taking your time to show us these steps.
Although i don't know about you guys but i think it's way too much of steps just to get a vsti load up, ouputs opened and assigned and midi inputs assigned with no headaches. Honestly, maybe it's just me and i'm not saying that Reaper ain't good but all these steps to get a everything that in many other daws out there achieve in i would say 3 steps.. for me i just don't get it. When the Devs are they going to make it simple and easy in opening vsti. Especially assigning multi midi inputs channels without having to open tones of windows and make tones of steps before.

And i don't want to start mentioning how easy it is to achieve this in other DAW.

But i'm confident that they will make this happen now that we are in V 3.0, they need to step up the game because there new DAW comers and the bar is raised for sure!!

Thanx again for this thread!!

Cheers!
__________________
MY: Music Producer, Mix Engineer & Entrepreneur
http://soundcloud.com/officialmy
Solar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 10:40 AM   #19
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Arrow Fewer audio output tracks

Next episode:

Let's say that you do not want all the possible audio outputs for the VSTi. perhaps you only want 8 stereo outputs although 16 are available:

Create the output audio tracks:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/j9D4CnO.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/XjlToNT.png

Result: 16 stereo audio output tracks for the 32 outs from the VSTi:
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/Nx7nZDS.png

Remove the unwanted tracks:
.... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/ML9iFxs.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/eXtKHpX.png

... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/1KmyxqR.png


Check the routing from instruments to outputs within the VSTi:
-- make sure that none exceed 16 (as in the screenshot)
-- or route them in the Plug-in Pin Connector window to one of the 16 track channels
... Big pic: https://i.imgur.com/lLLKxvA.png

Save all 9 tracks as a track template
.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 07-25-2014 at 03:53 AM.
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2009, 10:31 AM   #20
Hellfog
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 74
Default

I don't getting routing to work at all, have tried the guide serval times but nothing works.

1. I have load the vst click ok for routing tracks

2. Have chosen different instruments on difrent tracks in the VST for example Sampletank.


Nothing is working, it is verry easy to do in Cubase.
Hellfog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2010, 08:21 AM   #21
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default Hiding unneeded tracks and keeping PDC

Many thanks to Tallisman for posting this reply on another thread. I've edited it slightly to put the information into context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
Several of us spent a long time making this work as good as possible, but there was always a price to pay. The costliest was the demise of PDC!

For this routing scheme to work you need the following for best results:
- Folder Track (to hold the whole thing)
- - VSTi Container track (multi channel = number of outs desired)
- - hybrid tracks (Midi & Audio tracks) - one per output

The hybrids must be routed to send midi to the VSTi container only (the portion of the send referring to audio is disabled! These tracks will automatically route their audio to the folder track which serves as a submix for all of the instruments outputs. The VST container track must send audio, and only audio (NO MIDI) to each of the Hybrid tracks.

Folder
| - VSTi (receives Midi but no audio from hybrids) (sends audio but no midi) (does not send audio to folder)
| - - hybrid 1: Send:Midi(to VSTi) all==>01 Audio None ==> none
| - - hybrid 2: Send:Midi(to VSTi) all==>02 Audio None ==> none
| - - hybrid x: Send:Midi(to VSTi) all==>x Audio None ==> none

and of course enable "allow feedback routing"

But why?
The reason I used to do it was so that my Stylus RMX or Kontakt 3 templates would not consume 38 tracks worth of GUI space. And for that I paid the price - I was not able to use some plugins on the audio returns of those instruments as some plugins would make everything fall out of sync by introducing delay.

- - - - -
Then, about a year ago, Cockos introduce a new feature. They allowed us to hide a track from either the TCP or the MCP - this was a happy day and a long time coming. With it I could now reclaim Mixer space and TCP space.

Very shortly after Cockos gave us that candy, Tim ("SWS") decided he would blow it off the hinges. The SWS extension introduced a full featured Track management feature-set.

This SWS blowout enables me to make my 38 track K3 template begin life in my projects as 4 tracks in the TCP and 4 tracks in the mixer. All 38 (or so) tracks are present in the project but most are hidden until they are needed (then deleted if not needed near mixdown). You see, the settings tweaked using the SWS extension are saved with the track templates. So, when I add the Kontakt3 template this is what happens:
-- TCP gets the Folder (submix / overall volume control) and 4 visible MIDI tracks,
-- MCP gets The Folder track and 4 visible audio tracks.

The rest are hidden from both the TCP and MCP, but can be made visible when they are needed.

Thanks to SWS I gained control over my projects and unruly VSTis without sacrificing plugin delay compensation.

greetings
.t
Also, please read this, from Justin:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=51
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)

Last edited by DarkStar; 01-14-2015 at 05:15 AM. Reason: add link to Justin, on PDC
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2010, 05:38 PM   #22
PAPT
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,082
Default

In post #3, image 352 you have all midi tracks minimized to thin lines and a few midi tracks open.

How do you do that?

If I completely minimize I can't get any of the midi tracks to remain open like that.
PAPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 06:01 AM   #23
mondopp2u
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5
Default You....

....are a GOD!
mondopp2u is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 08:29 AM   #24
hopi
Human being with feelings
 
hopi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Hear
Posts: 12,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar View Post
Thanx a lot Darkstar for the great job and taking your time to show us these steps.
Although i don't know about you guys but i think it's way too much of steps just to get a vsti load up, ouputs opened and assigned and midi inputs assigned with no headaches. Honestly, maybe it's just me and i'm not saying that Reaper ain't good but all these steps to get a everything that in many other daws out there achieve in i would say 3 steps.. for me i just don't get it. When the Devs are they going to make it simple and easy in opening vsti. Especially assigning multi midi inputs channels without having to open tones of windows and make tones of steps before.

And i don't want to start mentioning how easy it is to achieve this in other DAW.

But i'm confident that they will make this happen now that we are in V 3.0, they need to step up the game because there new DAW comers and the bar is raised for sure!!

Thanx again for this thread!!

Cheers!
Solar... IMHO you are both right and not right... meaning that in many other DAW's it will do it for you but ONLY in the way it does it. Reaper on the other hand, offers an amazing degree of flexibility in setting these up to your needs and taste and, once done as you like, the ability to save as a template. There is always a 'price to pay' for more freedom but I'm ok with that in reaper.

It does take some learning to deal with the routing possibilites but to me it's been well worth it.

With that said, I can imagine a more automatic way for reaper to handle mulit-out vsti's. I don't know if it is possible but, what if:

Let me first add that I really like the way of putting each midi track into a folder with it's corresponding audio track.. Jonny G. shows this in his Kontakt tutorial...

So, what if... when you drag a vsti onto an empty tcp track, reaper begins a dialog that asks a series of questions:

1- How many midi rec. traks do you want routed to this vsti?
2- How many audio output traks do you want?
....then with these following options....
3- Would you like all the midi rec tracks in a folder... and
4- All the audio output in a diff folder

...or....

5- Would you like each midi rec trak and it's audio output to be it's own folder combo?

...and....

6- Which traks do you want to be visible in the TCP and which tracks do you want to be visible in the MCP?

...so answer the questions [you know, check boxes] and let 'er rip!
__________________
...should be fixed for the next build... http://tinyurl.com/cr7o7yl
https://soundcloud.com/hopikiva/angel-rain
hopi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2010, 03:17 PM   #25
jefskott99
Human being with feelings
 
jefskott99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Williamstown, KY
Posts: 5
Default SampleTank and Routing to load one instance of ST

So, I agree with some of the comments regarding Reaper not being as easy as Cubase regarding routing. Cubase makes it easy for people who grew up on MIDI. I'm old, thus one of those. Enough about Cubase.

I left the Cubase fold because Reaper offered such configurability (probably a bit much for my old brain). Reaper also, IMHO, sounds better and continually provides better workflow. And, I actually like the Reaper community. You guys are awesome with information, and the developers get right in the thick of it. You wouldn't see that anywhere else. Okay, enough Reaper cheerleading...here's my issue related to the Multi-out VSTs topic:

I want to load one instance of my multi-out VST (SampleTank 2.1 XL), loaded up with six instruments, for example, each on separate MIDI channels (configured in ST). I then want to record each of those channels individually. So, I might have Piano, Drums, Guitar, Synth, each on separate channels.

Then, I want to be able to go to a track in Reaper and control channel 1 - Piano, Channel 3 - Drums, individually. I don't want a combi. I want individual track control (if I want a combi, I can just layer by arming the individual tracks). The obvious benefit to what I want is not having to pull up multiple instances of SampleTank, which starts to wear on me after awhile (not to mention slowing down my machine).

If any of you use SampleTank 2 or Sonik Synth 2 and have figured this out, I would love to hear get a walk through. Thank you for your help.

Best Regards,
Jeff
jefskott99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2010, 04:29 PM   #26
steadyrev
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: JAMAICA
Posts: 492
Default

If I understand you correctly:

New project
insert virtual instrument
options build multi-channel
gets you there.
Inserting a midifile on the first track allows you to test the individual tracks.

You could also build the 16 channels when you do the multi-outs.

Last edited by steadyrev; 11-06-2010 at 05:07 PM.
steadyrev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2011, 11:24 AM   #27
marcus82
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 189
Default

this can really be a pain when all you want to do is track some midi performances and do some sequencing. having to double up on ever track just to do a "pre-mix" is a little annoying.
__________________
Registered Reaper User
marcus82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2011, 07:18 PM   #28
timmcmorris
Human being with feelings
 
timmcmorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Niagara Falls
Posts: 6
Default Adding VST effects after routing

Firstly, I am so thankful for this thread (and similar entry in the manual) because it has got me a long way. I only started using Reaper recently, and it has so far been the best DAW decision I have ever made!

So, to my question:

Up unto this point I have been I have had success adding Kontakt 4 to a track and configuring it properly as a multi VSTi...I can get all the virtual instrument to send to their desired tracks perfectly fine. The problem for me comes in when I want to add additional effects or plugins.

For example, let say I have 8 instruments loaded into Kontakt 4, with a piano as my midi#1 output...it sends to the appropriate track, where I have a few midi notes in that track...now I want to add some reverb to this track, but don't want to use the built in reverb from Kontakt 4...lets say I was to add REAPER's reverb....how can I accomplish this?

If I add it directly to the track where the midi notes are, it doesn't register anything because I suppose that track is actually sending the info to Kontakt 4 which actually outputs the sound. If I create a bus with reverb and send Kontackt 4 there, it puts reverb on all of the instruments, not just the piano.

I have been at this for days now fiddling with routing configurations and just can't seem to get it,...there must be something simple I am overlooking, please help!!

Thanks so much!!
__________________
Tim McMorris | Producer, Composer and Recording Artist
http://audiojungle.net/user/timmcmorris?ref=timmcmorris
www.timmcmorris.com
timmcmorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 02:37 AM   #29
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default

The simplest way (it takes longer to type this than to do it):

In Reaper:
-- right-click below any existing Track Control Panels,
-- select "Insert Virtual Instrument on new track" and pick Kontakt,
-- in the Build Routing Confirmation window, click [Yes] to create the separate audio outputs for Kontakt,
-- open the FX Chain window,
-- select [Options] > "Build 16 channels of MIDI routing to this track".

In Kontakt:
-- load your 8 instruments,
-- for each instrument set its incoming MIDI channel AND its audio output (to the Kontakt Mixer),
-- in the Kontakt Mixer, configure (the [Conf] button) each output to be connected to the next available pair of plugin outputs.

Back in Reaper:
-- rename your generated output tracks to reflect the audio coming form Kontakt to each one,
-- add the FX to those tracks,
-- hide any MIDI tracks you do not want to see in the Mixer,
-- hide any audio tracks you do not want to see in the Arranger,
-- Save them all as a Track Template for next time.

HTH
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 06:17 AM   #30
frankielouis
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 185
Default

Can't find the "configuring Multi-Outputs" thread. Please post the link.
Thank you.
frankielouis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 10:13 AM   #31
arbogast
Human being with feelings
 
arbogast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankielouis View Post
Can't find the "configuring Multi-Outputs" thread. Please post the link.
Thank you.
It's stickied in this very subforum
But here's a tiny link:.
__________________
ASUS SABERTOOTH Z97 MARK 2, Socket-1150 / Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SSD / Intel Core i7-4790, LGA1150, Quad Core / Crucial DDR3 BallistiX Sport 16GB KIT / RME Fireface UC
arbogast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 11:57 AM   #32
timmcmorris
Human being with feelings
 
timmcmorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Niagara Falls
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post

In Kontakt:
-- load your 8 instruments,
-- for each instrument set its incoming MIDI channel AND its audio output (to the Kontakt Mixer),
-- in the Kontakt Mixer, configure (the [Conf] button) each output to be connected to the next available pair of plugin outputs.

HTH
Hey DarkStar, thank you SOOO much for replying, I really appreciate your help! What you said makes perfect sense, and I am almost there, but still need a little help.

I have been able to follow your instructions to get 4 stereo channels working (and then add effects to those channels), but I don`t know how to get more then 4.

For example, on the routing conformation window the outputs created are:

Stereo 1/2->New track 2 "Kt.st.1"
Stereo 3/4->New track 3 "Kt.st.2"
Stereo 5/6->New track 4 "Kt.aux1"
Stereo 7/8->New track 5 "Kt.aux2"

So, 8 outputs, but only 4 stereo.

Under the kontakt mixer settings, I have available:

st.1, st.2 and then 4 aux channels. I can create new channels, however I can only work within these paired groups to share an output rather then exceeding these 4 stereo pairs that have been created.

So in other words, I can't route the 4 remaining instruments to their own channels where I can add different effects and such...I can only share the 4 it creates for me.

Thanks again so much for your previous reply, I will be anxiously awaiting another reply - I need to figure this out before I start doing anymore recording because of the large number of tracks I need...if I don`t, it just cripples my cpu because of trying to open a new instance of Kontakt on every track just for one instrument.
__________________
Tim McMorris | Producer, Composer and Recording Artist
http://audiojungle.net/user/timmcmorris?ref=timmcmorris
www.timmcmorris.com
timmcmorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 04:36 PM   #33
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default

The Kontakt VSTi comes in various versions with different numbers of outputs. For example, Kontakt 3.5 has 08, 16 and 32 output versions. (that is 4, 8, 16 stereo channels).

It sounds like you've loaded the 8 output (4 stereo) version. Try the 32-output version (or the 64-output version if you're using Kontakt 4).
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2011, 04:55 PM   #34
timmcmorris
Human being with feelings
 
timmcmorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Niagara Falls
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
The Kontakt VSTi comes in various versions with different numbers of outputs. For example, Kontakt 3.5 has 08, 16 and 32 output versions. (that is 4, 8, 16 stereo channels).

It sounds like you've loaded the 8 output (4 stereo) version. Try the 32-output version (or the 64-output version if you're using Kontakt 4).
I tried using the 64 out, as I am using Kontakt 4, and I gain 1 extra stereo channel, and the rest become mono channels, exactly like this:

Stereo 1/2->New track 2 "Kt.st.1"
Stereo 3/4->New track 3 "Kt.aux1"
Stereo 5/6->New track 4 "Kt.aux2"
Stereo 7/8->New track 5 "Kt.aux3"
Stereo 9/10->New track 6 "Kt.aux4"

Mono 11->New track 7 "Kt. unassigned[1]" (repeats all the way until it reaches "Mono 64"

Any thoughts? I tested and can route properly to the mono track, but it kills a lot of the source effects from Kontakt. Need stereo.

Thanks again!
__________________
Tim McMorris | Producer, Composer and Recording Artist
http://audiojungle.net/user/timmcmorris?ref=timmcmorris
www.timmcmorris.com
timmcmorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 07:43 AM   #35
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default

OK, some progress. it sounds like your Kontakt VSTi has one 5 (stereo) channels in its Mixer (St.1 and 4 Aux). So the first thing to do is crate more channels within Kontakt

In Kontakt (no instruments loaded):
-- in the Mixer, click [Add channel], say, 7 times to add 7 more channels
-- click [Conf] on one, rename it if needed and select its plugin outputs (the next available pair)
-- click >> to go to the next new channel and repeat
-- do the same for the 4 Aux channels to put them on their own outputs.
-- with the 64-out version you could have 28 stereo channels and 4 stereo Aux channels

Here, I've added 3 new channels, in Kontakt 3.5:
[IMG]http://img66.**************/img66/2015/dsmovk103bfx6.th.png[/IMG][IMG]http://img66.**************/images/thpix.gif[/IMG]
Big pic:
http://img66.**************/img66/2015/dsmovk103bfx6.png

Now, before you add any Instruments:
-- save this setup as an empty Multi, so that you can load it agian in other projects
-- or, click [Make Default] to make it the defualt setup for Kontakt 64-out, so that it loads automatically each time you load Kontakt.

Close Kontakt and remove it from the track, reload it from the FX Browser (and load the Multi if you need to). In the FX Chain window, click [Options} and select "Build multichannel routing ...". Add you 8 Instruments and route them to the desired outputs.

Have a look at "the Output section" is the Kontakt Reference manual for more details

HTH
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 09:14 AM   #36
timmcmorris
Human being with feelings
 
timmcmorris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Niagara Falls
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
...
Close Kontakt and remove it from the track, reload it from the FX Browser (and load the Multi if you need to). In the FX Chain window, click [Options} and select "Build multichannel routing ...". Add you 8 Instruments and route them to the desired outputs.

HTH

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

I finally got it

For some reason as well, for me, reaper would not recognize the new tracks until I saved everything as default and then started a new project and let it re-build the output tracks,...not just closing and re-opening Kontakt.

Having this set-up will completely change the way I am able to record.

Thanks again so much, I super appreciate all of your help DarkStar!!!

-Tim
__________________
Tim McMorris | Producer, Composer and Recording Artist
http://audiojungle.net/user/timmcmorris?ref=timmcmorris
www.timmcmorris.com
timmcmorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 10:35 AM   #37
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default

You're welcome.

The only rule is: help out other users when you can.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2011, 04:56 PM   #38
DiBellasMusic
Human being with feelings
 
DiBellasMusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 39
Default Sample Tank 2.5xl and Akai MPK88 midi routing

of the three types of vsti that you discussed,

# the "Fast-track" method,
# separate MIDI Input and Audio Output tracks,
# combined MIDI Input and Audio Output tracks

Which do you recommend if what a person wants is to create a multi in ST and then trigger each part from its own corresponding midi channel. I have been very unsuccessful in getting ST to work as multitimbral instrument with my akai mpk88.

I also have miroslav and sonik synth and something tells me once I figure out my routing issue for ST my other two vst issues will be solved.

thx
DiBellasMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 03:13 AM   #39
DarkStar
Human being with feelings
 
DarkStar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 16,518
Default

"Fast track" will give you 1 VSTi track (for the MIDI clips) and 16 tracks for the audio output. Inside ST2 you should select a different pair of outputs for each instrument. You could then put all your MIDI clips on the one track.

If you want the MIDI clips on separate tracks, then Build the 16 channels of MIDI routing to the VSTi track; rename those tracks and put the MIDI clips on them. This will also set the Sends from those tracks to convert the MIDI to the 16 separate MIDI channels 9and may solve the issue in your other thread).

HTH
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. Inspired by ...

My top 40 FRs, as voted by you (updated for August 2016)
DarkStar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 09:54 AM   #40
DiBellasMusic
Human being with feelings
 
DiBellasMusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 39
Default

I just woke up Darkstar, so bear with me....now is fast track when i do insert vst on new track and then select no to inserting the 32 channels of audio? or when i say yes to that?

How do you record 16 parts on one midi track without overwriting the previous data? I am sorry im just a noob here.

You know i bought the groove3.com's tutorial videos for sample tank 2 but the videos demonstrate using apples, logic. so i thought i should get groove3.com's Reaper videos and watch them first. did you ever watch the Reaper videos at groove3? if so do you think they will help me understand what you're saying better?

Thanks Darkstar
DiBellasMusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.