Old 06-01-2009, 02:31 AM   #1
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Default Arranger Track

Reaper really needs something like Cubase Arranger Track. Which lets you arrange parts in a non-liner fashion and quickly try out sections against each other. Invaluable tool for song writing. Shouldn't be too hard to do.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:22 PM   #2
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Default VIDEO INCLUDED

Let me just elaborate a bit for those not familiar with Cubase Arranger Track.

Lets say you built this around the region feature which Reaper already have. And lets say you had region 1,2,3, (named: verse 1, chorus, verse 2). Now you wanted to hear what it would sound like to play verse 2 ONCE, the chorus TWICE, then verse 1 ONCE.

A picture tells a thousand words so I've included a link to a video of how this example works in cubase 3. Of course it wouldn't have to be exactly like that and I'm sure Cockos could do it even better with more features.

So basically it works like this. You drag the regions from one pane to the other in order to built your play order. When the orange button is on the project will playback using the play order track and when it's off it plays back normally. You can you can specify how many times you want a region to repeat. And you can save different play order list and choose them from the drop down menu.


http://hotfile.com/dl/27371287/e02c6...Order.avi.html

Last edited by Rec; 02-06-2010 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:25 AM   #3
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im with that...+1
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:55 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rec View Post
Shouldn't be too hard to do.
heh, what makes you so sure?
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
heh, what makes you so sure?
It's basically a playlist, Reaper can already loop between two points,
this script just needs to change the loop points while playing after
each "loop".
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
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heh, what makes you so sure?
The fact that I don't have to do it
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
It's basically a playlist, Reaper can already loop between two points,
this script just needs to change the loop points while playing after
each "loop".
it gets trickier than that - let's say you have two regions in your song, X and Y. your playlist is: X Y Y X. you start playback at the beginning, it goes to X. then you click in the timeline inside Y. what does playback do? does it jump to Y in the arrange track (first one or second one?), does it exit the arrange mode altogether and just start playing from wherever? and if it's the latter, do you give the user a way to continue playing back inside the arrange track? etc. that's just the tip of the iceberg, too. there are loads of design decisions required to make a feature this big work.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
it gets trickier than that - let's say you have two regions in your song, X and Y. your playlist is: X Y Y X. you start playback at the beginning, it goes to X. then you click in the timeline inside Y. what does playback do? does it jump to Y in the arrange track (first one or second one?), does it exit the arrange mode altogether and just start playing from wherever? and if it's the latter, do you give the user a way to continue playing back inside the arrange track? etc. that's just the tip of the iceberg, too. there are loads of design decisions required to make a feature this big work.
I agree.

Of course there are number of things to perfect this, my point was only
that it's not that difficult to implement the ability to automatically jump
between regions in an order, especially for seasoned programmers.

Like every feature, it needs a foundation, and it can be as simple as
one marker pointing to another for jumps.
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:17 AM   #9
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I'd really really want this! To be able to easily try of different version of a song structure AND be able to save the different versions - that would make me very happy!
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Old 11-26-2009, 06:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
I agree.

Of course there are number of things to perfect this, my point was only
that it's not that difficult to implement the ability to automatically jump
between regions in an order, especially for seasoned programmers.

Like every feature, it needs a foundation, and it can be as simple as
one marker pointing to another for jumps.
true, the regions are already there, it just needs a playlist system. I wouldn't be surprised if this appeared soon, there has been lots of talk about it.
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub3000 View Post
it gets trickier than that - let's say you have two regions in your song, X and Y. your playlist is: X Y Y X. you start playback at the beginning, it goes to X. then you click in the timeline inside Y. what does playback do? does it jump to Y in the arrange track (first one or second one?), does it exit the arrange mode altogether and just start playing from wherever? and if it's the latter, do you give the user a way to continue playing back inside the arrange track?
In arrange mode in cubase 3 it will choose the first X and the first Y when you click over those items (respectively) in the time line. If you click over anything else it start from the beginning of the play order list.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:05 PM   #12
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totally +1 this! i think it won't be too far away. but i also thing, that it might be possible to write some sort of plugin for REAPER to do this, in a similar veign to SWS extention or whatever.
hmm. might think this over for a bit.

in the meantime, if you +1 this too, don't forget to big it up here as well:
http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1343
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:57 PM   #13
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totally +1 this! i think it won't be too far away. but i also thing, that it might be possible to write some sort of plugin for REAPER to do this, in a similar veign to SWS extention or whatever.
hmm. might think this over for a bit.
That would be the greatest extension to date I think if possible. I suspect this will have to be done in the core code.
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Old 11-27-2009, 01:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boatclub View Post
totally +1 this! i think it won't be too far away. but i also thing, that it might be possible to write some sort of plugin for REAPER to do this, in a similar veign to SWS extention or whatever.
hmm. might think this over for a bit.
I actually asked SWS about this yesterday, and he said he couldn't do it without access to the audio engine. So we'll have to wait for cockos.
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Old 03-01-2010, 10:32 PM   #15
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missed this.

would love to see it implemented.
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
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missed this.

would love to see it implemented.
Please vote here, these are all basically FRs for the same thing. http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1343
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:39 AM   #17
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Default Play selected part against all others. Plus transpose selected part(s)

Hey, check out this cool new addition to the arranger track FR:

[IMG]http://img638.**************/img638/5900/playportionagainstother.jpg[/IMG]

Probably should be an option to exclude certain track numbers from being transposed e.g. drums.

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Old 03-02-2010, 02:48 AM   #18
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how would you tell Reaper what are dums/percussions (to not to transpose)?

both Audio and MIDI
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Old 03-02-2010, 02:52 AM   #19
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how would you tell Reaper what are dums/percussions (to not to transpose)?

both Audio and MIDI
funny, was just writing that on the bottom.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:04 PM   #20
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+1

An arranger track would really be amazingly useful. Hope this gets implemented soon.

Think it is about the last Cubase has over Reaper atm..
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Old 05-24-2010, 03:09 AM   #21
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It could also work with multiple project tabs.

e.g. Project Tab 1 has the song parts into regions.
Project Tab 2 has the 'arranger' info, which triggers playback for tab 1 regions.

That should be easier to implement, as a mid-step before the full-fledged functionality.
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:57 AM   #22
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Bump.

Please vote for this here: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=1542
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:14 AM   #23
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Agree. +1
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Old 02-14-2011, 01:26 AM   #24
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:48 PM   #25
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Has this feature still not been implemented in reaper?
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:21 AM   #26
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kurt - just the way I felt reading this.

Back when I did backing tracks on my Amiga 1200 the software I used back then (1991) was capable of doing this! FFS....

I really like Reaper and have found nothing else out there that works better for me, but sometimes.....
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:45 AM   #27
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'REAPER Plus! The Power of SWS Extensions' (free download)
2.6 Smart Marker Actions

Later in this guide we'll be looking at the SWS Marker List Manager. Meanwhile, in this section you will be introduced to one very handy SWS marker management feature - the ability to create smart markers that can themselves be made to execute other commands and actions.

An example of this might be when you are auditioning a song. Perhaps there are two or three passages on which you wish to focus, comparing the mix at these different places. This might be, for example, to help you introduce subtle variations in the way a repeated chorus is mixed in two or three different places. The use of smart markers (or action markers) can help you to do this.

G. Francis
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:44 AM   #28
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But it should be a core part of the main reaper program, I mean - this is stuff I and many many others like me would be using routinely ALL the time,especially in MIDI arranging.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:57 AM   #29
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Forgive me if I am slow, but could someone clarify this for me with an answer to this question.

How would a part-play-list work if I did NOT want each part to be EXACTLY the same every time?

It seems that this is a request limited to people who do simple looping where the SAME tracks, with the same envelopes, and the same arrangements between instruments, are ALWAYS the same and together. Right?

So if I wanted to play a VERSE (A) sometimes with a bass and sometimes with a piano behind it, (which is most of the time) this would be a proliferation of NEW PARTS, and each combination would require its own definition as region. Right?

In that case, if things are not templated much, it actually serves my purpose better to use the multiple track display where I can grab any media item (a complex bassline as opposed to simple) and place it together in the same vertical alignment as a verse with or without a vocal, with or without piano chords, etc.

I guess my question boils down to why the current version of the track view is not just FINE?

thnks
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:42 PM   #30
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This thread started on 06/01/2009.
REAPER Plus! was published in April 2010.
What I suggest is that among the possibilities of Smart Markers is to create a PlayList.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
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It seems that this is a request limited to people who do simple looping where the SAME tracks, with the same envelopes, and the same arrangements between instruments, are ALWAYS the same and together. Right?


thnks
Wrong. A lot of people use this feature for song writing. It is often just used in the beginning of a project to quickly try parts out against each other. Often things are rerecorded to add nuances to the sections. Play around with cubase's arranger track feature, you'll see what I mean. I purchased reaper but don't use it because of this missing feature. In the meantime I use cubase, but would switch if the feature was implemented, since I like a lot of other features in reaper.
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Old 12-20-2011, 08:38 PM   #32
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I have also used the 'playlist' feature years ago when I used trackers for music.

On a simple level, you create the basic structure of your music by using a playlist for markers. When you're happy with the structure, you can 'flatten' the playlist so that the new structure is linear in the timeline. Then you can add automation, add new parts etc...

It's also easy to do remixes this way. Just make a new playlist and you got a different structure of the same song.

You can get pretty advanced with the playlist, if the developers are willing to go there.

Like:

- Allow to change the length of each pattern. So you can e.g. play from marker 2 all the way to marker 3, but on the second time, play only half-way and then switch to another marker.

- Use the playlist only on selected tracks, all others obey the linear timeline. Makes it very easy to repeat some parts, while recording and arranging others as usual.

- Allow live performance-mode control. Trigger markers via MIDI, latch mode on/off, repeat (pattern) on/off etc. And also record the performance (in a new playlist or in the timeline) to build up the track.
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:49 PM   #33
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'REAPER Plus! The Power of SWS Extensions' (free download)
2.6 Smart Marker Actions

Later in this guide we'll be looking at the SWS Marker List Manager. Meanwhile, in this section you will be introduced to one very handy SWS marker management feature - the ability to create smart markers that can themselves be made to execute other commands and actions.

An example of this might be when you are auditioning a song. Perhaps there are two or three passages on which you wish to focus, comparing the mix at these different places. This might be, for example, to help you introduce subtle variations in the way a repeated chorus is mixed in two or three different places. The use of smart markers (or action markers) can help you to do this.

G. Francis
Ok I've read that section. And I can get reaper to jump betwen different smart markers, but I fail to see how I can make an effective arranger track feature out of this. Could you please explain how I would go about that?
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:03 PM   #34
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It could be implemented in the region manager!
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:50 PM   #35
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It could be implemented in the region manager!
Are you saying its currently possible, or that you would like to see it in the future?
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:13 AM   #36
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Default and don't forget upbeats and reverb/delay/decay tails

In order to avoid a half baked solution one shouldn't forget upbeats and reverb/delay/decay tails:

For each track within a "playlisted" region you should be able to specify upbeat and reverb/delay/decay tail length (default 0).
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:03 AM   #37
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msore you dont have to copy everything with a true arrange window.

I use this in my current sequencer.

Record your intro your verse and your chorus and your bridge if any.

These are represented in the arranger as building blocks on a horizontal timeline.
You can then select and move the blocks, also copy and paste them anywhere in the arrangement.
Once you have the order of the various parts of the song set, you can then go back to the individual blocks and alter them to suit, as they are not linked.
at least that way if the drums are to stay the same you already have the correct part in the right place and can add and remove elements of the rest and record new alternate bits in place at the same time.

The only time this would not be useful is if you are writing music that has no repeating sections at all.
Please note: NOT looping.

Last edited by ivansc; 01-26-2012 at 05:04 AM. Reason: bits was typed as its - confusing!
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:51 AM   #38
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Default thnks no thnks

Ivansc. Thanks for the clarification. I may be too far away from the looping mentality to see the benefits of this arranger view OVER what I already have in the Reaper TCP. hasta.
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Old 01-26-2012, 01:57 PM   #39
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Are you saying its currently possible, or that you would like to see it in the future?
I would like
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Old 01-29-2012, 08:06 PM   #40
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In order to avoid a half baked solution one shouldn't forget upbeats and reverb/delay/decay tails:

For each track within a "playlisted" region you should be able to specify upbeat and reverb/delay/decay tail length (default 0).
Could you elaborate on this please?
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