Old 03-15-2010, 10:40 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by carbon View Post
When I used it some time ago it had a curious quirk in it.
It output a signal even if I didn't input anything.
Maybe DC offset? All I know the meters showed a signal present although, nothing was heard.

Has this changed since?
i deleted it because of this very thing. i find tal stuff to be a bit buggy generally
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Old 03-15-2010, 01:14 PM   #82
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regarding Freeware Synths :
my favourite ones are iblit/polyiblit and Voyager (Oatmeal you already have)
Also search for soundbanks, especially for voyager there are many out there. if you don't find them, pm me and I send you.
I hate the default gui of Voyager, seriously putting me off. I tend to program my own sounds so for me this is important. I tried to use LimeFlavour's skin for it but that has a strange quirk in Reaper. Works without problems in Orion though but these days Reaper is my main daw so that's why I passed on Voyager. And let's not forget my primary goal here; cutting down on the amount of plugins

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Oh and one effect I don't wanna miss ist TAL DUB II , my go to effect for delay :
I eliminated TAL Dub II because it uses the most CPU of all the delays I tested and it doesn't really have any real unique functionality. Something like RetroDelay has a lot more features.

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And dblue Glitch is a must if you need something totally weird effect-wise. Many producers use it, yet it's still freeware.
I have Glitch... and a few more plugins in that realm Will llist them when I get to that chapter though.

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Another great Organ is ORGANized Trio :
Agreed that it sounds nice but how many organs do you need. I ditched Trio mainly because of the nagscreen (it is donationware after all) and because there are good alternatives (being mainly NubiLE).

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I believe one could easily do full productions just with Reaper and freeware, yet I find a lot of payware is very comfortable to use and comes with tons of presets. That's why I buy payware as well.
As you might have noticed I have a lot of (legaly registered) payware as well but I look at it from the other side; a lot of freeware is also comfortable to use and sounds as good (or sometimes even better) as payware.
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Old 03-15-2010, 02:07 PM   #83
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Agreed that it sounds nice but how many organs do you need. I ditched Trio mainly because of the nagscreen (it is donationware after all) and because there are good alternatives (being mainly NubiLE).
Actually Organized Trio is freeware.

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=showproduct&b=37

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Some of these plugins show a nag-screen at the start-up but there are no limitations soundwise. You're not required to pay for them but if you wish to get rid of the nag-screen, you can make a 10~15 euros donation using the paypal button shown in the nag-screen.
The nag-screen is a little annoying, but Trio has a good leslie built in.
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:21 PM   #84
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The nag-screen is a little annoying, but Trio has a good leslie built in.
The rotary speaker emulation in Trio is indeed top notch but SpinnerLE is on par with it tmo. So why put up with the nag screen in Trio when NubiLE and SpinnerLE are as good without nag screens. And besides that, as SpinnerLE is a separate plugin you can use it on other stuff as well. Thinking of that I really should try it out on a guitar emulation with distortion combo myself.
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Old 03-15-2010, 08:14 PM   #85
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I want to get a better feel for the material in the initial post. But this post mentioned crystal and tweakbench, both of which I like a great deal.

Last edited by Fortunato; 03-15-2010 at 08:21 PM. Reason: I'm showcasing newbie ignorance and would prefer to simply eat crow here and get a better feel for the thread.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:15 AM   #86
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I want to get a better feel for the material in the initial post. But this post mentioned crystal and tweakbench, both of which I like a great deal.
I re-installed Crystal but for me it is still more of a preset machine (there are wonderfull presets in there though) but I like to program my own sounds and with Crystal I don't know where to start. Point is of course that this is bound to the real potential of it so it will probably stay in my arsenal. If so I'll add it to the list for sure.

The tweakbench stuff never really appealed to me, probably because of the user interface. I know that has little to do with sound but I like to be inspired by an instrument and looks has a lot to do with that as well. I never got around to even trying Oatmeal because of it's (for me) horrendous interface. When I found LimeFlavour's skin for Oatmeal it really sucked me in. Now it is my main synth, loads of fun working with it.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:42 AM   #87
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And besides that, as SpinnerLE is a separate plugin you can use it on other stuff as well.
The Organized Trio's Leslie sim is also available as a separate plugin - it's called "Mr. Donald". And it is free, without a nag screen.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:22 AM   #88
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i just gave oatmeal another try out - haven't used it in quite a long time. i downloaded a bank from kvr (the tinga compil bank - some truly wonderous sound design in there) just to have some good presets to listen to... crashed reaper within a couple of minutes of going through presets . i dunno, perhaps i can live with it. it only seems to be this that crashes it. there are some kinds of sounds that i can only get from this synth...
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:36 AM   #89
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I re-installed Crystal but for me it is still more of a preset machine (there are wonderfull presets in there though) but I like to program my own sounds and with Crystal I don't know where to start. Point is of course that this is bound to the real potential of it so it will probably stay in my arsenal. If so I'll add it to the list for sure.
Actually, this was the same thing that scared me off from it at first. I'll admit, it's a very intimidating interface. After messing with it for a while, however, I've found it extremely powerful. I'm a good way through building a full patch bank for it that serves my goals (ie lead synths, poly synths, bass, pads). More powerful than superwave or analog warfare (though they have important uses too and both have wonderful guis).

As far as tweakbench, same kinda thing. They have wonderful granulators and things, though, and really with a synth it's more about the sound than the interface.

Besides, as time goes on I like the ultra-simple white-on-color layout more and more
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:54 AM   #90
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Actually, this was the same thing that scared me off from it at first. I'll admit, it's a very intimidating interface. After messing with it for a while, however, I've found it extremely powerful. I'm a good way through building a full patch bank for it that serves my goals (ie lead synths, poly synths, bass, pads). More powerful than superwave or analog warfare (though they have important uses too and both have wonderful guis).
i agree crystal presents a very powerful set of tools but it still retains a very thin and weedy sound. i used to spend hours programming patches with it and i generally found i would always have to use all 3 oscillators to prevent it from sounding too weedy. of course, you don't always want a big fat sound that takes a huge chunk of the frequency range in your track, but i generally found it to sound fairly 'thin'. i ended up deleting it because now and again i would get very high cpu spiking that i couldn't find the cause of. it was usually when i was using the mseg's but i couldn't definitely pinpoint it.
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:37 AM   #91
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i just gave oatmeal another try out - haven't used it in quite a long time. i downloaded a bank from kvr (the tinga compil bank - some truly wonderous sound design in there) just to have some good presets to listen to... crashed reaper within a couple of minutes of going through presets . i dunno, perhaps i can live with it. it only seems to be this that crashes it. there are some kinds of sounds that i can only get from this synth...
I've seen other messages about Oatmeal's stability in Reaper. I have been playing with it for hours several times now and yet have to see it's first crash. Again it might have to do with me still running a single-core CPU.

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i agree crystal presents a very powerful set of tools but it still retains a very thin and weedy sound. i used to spend hours programming patches with it and i generally found i would always have to use all 3 oscillators to prevent it from sounding too weedy. of course, you don't always want a big fat sound that takes a huge chunk of the frequency range in your track, but i generally found it to sound fairly 'thin'. i ended up deleting it because now and again i would get very high cpu spiking that i couldn't find the cause of. it was usually when i was using the mseg's but i couldn't definitely pinpoint it.
That's my feeling to now that you mention it; Most sounds are very impressive in complexity but not really awe-inspiring in pure sonic quality. It's great for rhythmic soundscapes though.

Thinking of it it's actually INTRO that gives me the sounds that I should expect from Crystal; very complex but also large, in your face and fat when needed. But INTRO is as complex to program as Crystal as well, and it has the same appetite for CPU-cycles
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:57 AM   #92
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I've seen other messages about Oatmeal's stability in Reaper. I have been playing with it for hours several times now and yet have to see it's first crash. Again it might have to do with me still running a single-core CPU.
it only happens when scrolling through presets - it's a known bug. there was a fix from the reaper side a while back and it did make things a bit better. actually, thinking about it, i was using oatmeals own preset browsing buttons rather than reapers...
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:00 AM   #93
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It's great for rhythmic soundscapes though
i think, only in as much as any mseg capable synth is. with a little bit of patience (ok, maybe ALOT of patience ) you can use the drawable lfo's in oatmeal for a similar effect.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:11 PM   #94
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i think, only in as much as any mseg capable synth is. with a little bit of patience (ok, maybe ALOT of patience ) you can use the drawable lfo's in oatmeal for a similar effect.
It will take some time to get to the bottom of what Oatmeal is capable off. I have already heard great rhythmic presets on it as well. That arpeggiator seems to be quite an animal as well, that thing can use a manual on it's own.

As I said, INTRO by Boris.K also has quite a learning curve with a lot buried under the first impression of it's user interface. All kinds of stuff pops up when you start clicking on things
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:59 PM   #95
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make sure you check out the tinga compil presets i mentioned earlier (if you haven't already ). there is some stunning sound design in there.

http://www.kvraudio.com/banks.php?s=...at=&order=date

the insect sound presets are just brilliant. there is one called 'nuns2' that i just love - turn up the volume, as it is a quiet patch, and keep a chord held down for a while. very choir like. check out 'inside earth' too.

oatmeal is a stunning synth with many, many features under the hood. did you know that it has additive oscillators for instance? just amazing really. i did get jaded with it crashing on preset changes but i guess if you are programming it most of the time rather than leafing through sounds it shouldn't be much of a problem. one thing i found was that it does seem to lose something in the extreme highs and lows - not aliasing - just a reduction in its 'power' is the best way to describe it. you are right about the arp - probably the best one i have come across in any synth - tons of options there. it's a shame the developer left it in it's current state. although is does function as a complete synth apparently there were plans for more stuff, bug fixes etc.

one tip, in relation to the additive oscillators i mentioned earlier - if you are using a regular waveform such as sawtooth or square - select the user waveform in the oscillator section then right click on the waveform display and select the sawtooth/squarewave preset from there. once you have selected a preset right click again and select edit/display spectrum. this means that you will have access to the individual harmonics of each waveform. if you are lacking bass in a patch you can, for instance, just raise the volume of the fundamental/first few harmonics to achieve this or if you want a patch to sound a bit brighter you can raise a few higher harmonics (just tell me if i am telling you stuff you already know ). just one example of how powerful oatmeal is.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:41 AM   #96
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Blade, I know most of what is in Oatmeal including all the oscillator mojo that is under the hood When I find something I like I tend to dive in deep and get close and personal with it. I used to have a DX7 (sold it a few years ago) and I think I'm one of the very few people that was actually a certified FM sound engineer (did a FM programming course at the Rotterdam Conservatory back in the days).

It's a pitty I can't find a good freeware 6 osc FM-synth that I like so far but I can always fall back on FM7 if needed

Oh, and before you point me to them: I really like the big FM synths by Odo but they have 'issues'
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Old 03-17-2010, 03:59 AM   #97
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Blade, I know most of what is in Oatmeal including all the oscillator mojo that is under the hood When I find something I like I tend to dive in deep and get close and personal with it. I used to have a DX7 (sold it a few years ago) and I think I'm one of the very few people that was actually a certified FM sound engineer (did a FM programming course at the Rotterdam Conservatory back in the days).

It's a pitty I can't find a good freeware 6 osc FM-synth that I like so far but I can always fall back on FM7 if needed

Oh, and before you point me to them: I really like the big FM synths by Odo but they have 'issues'
lol! i'll shut up then! you could probably tell me a thing or two about oatmeal!

have you heard of Hexter? it's a free 6 osc FM synth. never used it myself but have heard good things about it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:16 AM   #98
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lol! i'll shut up then! you could probably tell me a thing or two about oatmeal!
Well, probably not yet but I'm getting there

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have you heard of Hexter? it's a free 6 osc FM synth. never used it myself but have heard good things about it.
It might sound great but it's user interface is seriously off-putting for me. That is close to THE most ugly synth I've ever seen.

The one I really want to have working well is Odo's DoubleSix XXL; it's a thing of beauty both visually and in features but it has some strange voice stealing going on that I can't get rid of. You can set the amount of voices but upping it doesn't solve the problem.

It's a looker though:

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Old 03-17-2010, 08:51 AM   #99
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Interesting thread, one I've been watching and probably will watch to the end. Always interesting to see what someone else chooses as the best of the best in freeware plugins. I hadn't looked into reverb yet (I'm still using Reaper's own Reaverbate) but I liked the ones you picked.

Three points for Synth1 btw. With some preset packs from KVR it gets very interesting. White Hallway especially..... that still gives me the creeps.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:56 AM   #100
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Three points for Synth1 btw. With some preset packs from KVR it gets very interesting. White Hallway especially..... that still gives me the creeps.
Now why did you do that .... now I have to go hunt through a gazillion Synth1 presets to find that one to listen to it......








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Old 03-17-2010, 09:02 AM   #101
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Just unpack the mega preset pack that's available on the net and search by file name

- Mario
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:13 AM   #102
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have you tried oxe fm?

http://www.oxesoft.com/
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:15 AM   #103
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my synth1 (half)bank if anyones interested.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/507616/...ner_sounds.zip
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:55 AM   #104
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Where, pray tell, is this mega preset pack to which you refer?
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:00 AM   #105
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http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...sets-megapack/
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:07 AM   #106
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http://www.vstcafe.com/2009/04/synth...pack-vol2.html
http://www.vstcafe.com/2009/05/synth...apack-vol.html
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:08 AM   #107
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my synth1 (half)bank if anyones interested.

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/507616/...ner_sounds.zip
the lower notes on the flange preset remind me a bit of malstrom's amp sweep preset (mostly the flange settings i think).
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:20 AM   #108
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To the original poster: They're in Lunatique's preset bank. There's an mp3 demo he posted of some of the presets, it might be in there.


http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3230221

EDIT: It is in the mp3 demo, at about 2:35.

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Old 03-17-2010, 12:12 PM   #109
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I have no idea why exactly this is not happening on my system, but it isn't
Guess I got lucky or maybe they fixed this in the latest version.
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:13 PM   #110
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WOOT!!! yes... yes... yes.....

I found my free alternative for an FM-synth and it was right under my nose so to speak. Played a bit more with DoubleSix XXL and again got buggered with the strange voice stealing problem, crackles and pops and what not. It also regularly hits 30% CPU with just two voices playing...

... but then I thought about it's little brother, DoubleSix (without the XXL). It has almost the same UI and just a few less options. Installed it and presto; non of the problems that XXL seems to have. A much better bank with demo-patches as well. Sounds wonderfully FM-ish.

This is how it looks (for comparison with the XXL interface posted above):



Going to add it to the list asap
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Old 03-18-2010, 08:31 AM   #111
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it only happens when scrolling through presets - it's a known bug. there was a fix from the reaper side a while back and it did make things a bit better. actually, thinking about it, i was using oatmeals own preset browsing buttons rather than reapers...
quoting myself here hmmm.... have been using oatmeal with no problems at all using reapers own preset browsing so it seems that the problem is restricted to oatmeals own preset management. just to let y'all oatmeal users know...
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:30 AM   #112
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Today I set out to select a few reverbs from the big list I have and bring it down to a functional selection. This was way more work then I anticipated but fun nevertheless... took me several hours A/B-ing all the reverbs with a clean drumloop and a dry vocal track.

I also took the CPU-load for each plugin into consideration. Below I'm mentioning CPU-load for each reverb so to put that in perspective take a look at my signature for my hardware specs. Also keep in mind that 'sound' is largely a subjective thing so my 'taste' in plugins might not be yours... your milage may vary and all such... well, you get my drift

--- the test results ---

RoomMachine 844: Gave some nice coloring on vocals but to muddy sounding on drums. [4% CPU]

Classic Reverb: Gave some colouring on vocals and a usefull back-fill on drums, sounded mediocre overall [3.7% CPU]

Epic Reverb: Very clean and airy sounding on both vocals and drums but at a price (high CPU-load), very usefull as a buss-reverb and for 'gelling' during mastering [11.2% CPU]

Freeverb: Usefull colouring on both vocals and drums, very useful for channel-fx especially because it's very low CPU-load (quality switch lowers load while still sounding rather good) [3% - 1.8% CPU]

Glaceverb: Gave me scattering echoes in the tail, because of that not nice on vocals but surprisingly usable on drums [4.9% CPU]

Karma reverb: sounded cheap and dull on both vocals and drums, and no low CPU-load to even it out [5.8% CPU]

Antress Flashverb: With only three controls quite hard to use (no presets bundle either), to basic for vocals but gave some nice air to the drums [7.7% CPU]

Breebaard's Omniverb: Added some clean space to the vocals, gave a coloured sound to the drums [2.7% CPU]

Sweet Boy Reverb: Gives a very useful clean and airy sound to both vocals and drums at the lowest CPU-load of them all [1.9% CPU]

Wurr Audio reverb: sounded dull and useless for serious mixing for both vocals and drums [4.4% CPU]

Antress Spacer: Sounded OK-ish on the vocals but is absolutely FAT! on drums (need that 80's booming drums, this is it) [7% CPU]

Anwida reverb: a long time favorite, sound clean with a nice ambiance on both vocals and drums but very little control over the sound [3.1% CPU]

Ambience: not really freeware but I tested it anyway, sounds absolutely stunning on everything with loads of control over the sound but is a CPU-hog [10.3% CPU] NOTE: it has a CPU-load setting but below 6% CPU it sounds absolutely TERRIBLE

TAL Reverb: very nice and characteristic sounding (Plate) on both vocals and drums but at a price [9% CPU]

Reverbering: Somewhat useful on drums but GREAT sounding small rooms on vocals, and low CPU to boot [2.9% CPU]

--- My selection ---

The main go-to reverbs:

1. EpicVerb: My new favorite. I will use this mainly for finalizing a mix.
2. Freeverb: Nice colouring and low CPU, my main reverb for inserts

The additional reverbs for specific applications:

3. Roommachine 844: has a nice character to it, especially for vocals
4. Nusofting Reverbering: specifically small rooms for vocals
5. Antress Spacer: FAT drums !!!

... and the runner-up:

6. Sweet Boy reverb: clean sounding with just 1.9% CPU I can stick this in a mix anywhere I need it.

Going to add my selection with download links to the OP later tonight
Should look into SIR. I use it for most of my reverb needs. Not free, but cheap is the Audio damage adverb.
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Old 03-18-2010, 09:34 AM   #113
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About sample players, please consider that sfz+ has severe issues when used in multiple instances in multicore systems.

SFZ has similar issues, but there's an updated version around that has this fixed.

Of course SFZ+ has more features, but cannot be used only in one instance on modern systems.

Hope it helps,
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:25 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioWonderland View Post
Should look into SIR. I use it for most of my reverb needs. Not free, but cheap is the Audio damage adverb.
I have SIR1, works for me for convolution verbs. Didn't list it because so far I focussed on algorithm-verbs. I seldom use convolution verbs, only when I need something very specific. It's much easier for me to dial in a reverb with an algorithm-verb then go hunting through several hundreds of impulse files.

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About sample players, please consider that sfz+ has severe issues when used in multiple instances in multicore systems.

SFZ has similar issues, but there's an updated version around that has this fixed.

Of course SFZ+ has more features, but cannot be used only in one instance on modern systems.
Actually I don't have such issues at all. I always start from the assumption that there are no silver bullet solutions. So I don't mind work-arounds where needed. Same as with convolution verbs I also very seldom use soundfonts (although I have a nice collection). It is almost unthinkable that I would use more then one in a song and even if that would happen and I run in to a problem I just render a stem and switch the plugin off-line. No big deal for me (and a great use of Reaper-functionality).
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:43 AM   #115
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i just load soundfonts into shortcircuit. am i missing something? is there a reason/any advantage why i would need a dedicated soundfont player?
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:07 PM   #116
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Yeah, I found out I SC loads soundfonts as well. It also loads my Battery Studio drums without problems It's just that SFZ+ is more like a synth that uses soundfonts instead of oscillators. So for me SFZ+ is still a nice addition to SC.
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Old 03-18-2010, 04:04 PM   #117
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Just wanted to mention that sfz+ works just fine on multicore systems if you duplicate the dll and make sure you don't load the same one twice, which is easy enough thanks to REAPER's rename plugin feature. I have a project here with three instances of sfz+ running happily on a quad core.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:15 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
the lower notes on the flange preset remind me a bit of malstrom's amp sweep preset (mostly the flange settings i think).
is that malstrom from reason you're talking about? haven't used that in years. i do miss it though!
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Old 03-19-2010, 06:20 AM   #119
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i have just noticed a glaring omission from your vintage emulations list!!!

Asynth by Antti at smartelectronix (also responsible for taurus, augur and cm's dominator synth)

http://antti.smartelectronix.com/

easily up there in the top echelons of va's (including all payware emulations). some of the best antialiased oscillators i have heard and lots of lovely filters to choose from.


also arppe2600va is definitely worth a look. it's synthedit and a bit buggy but has a very nice filter and a great spring reverb. the mod matrix makes in an extremely powerful synth.

http://glenstegner.com/softsynths.html
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:36 AM   #120
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Blade, I had them both in my list but shelved them. The are both great (each in their own way) but I had to make some choices.

For me Asynth, although very nice sounding, doesn't really bring something new to the mix. Same with RGC's Triangle and Square... and several other VA synths that go around. The GTG-synths are fab as well but I shelved them for the same reason.

arppe2600va is fun as well but it didn't trigger me soundwise.


I'm actually looking to shelve some of the synths I selected and bring the list down even further.
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