Old 05-28-2010, 05:15 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
mike, just a little one: on the item context i couldn't find an option to open the item in the midi editor/inline editor.
maybe you figure folk open them an easier way just i often r-click a midi item to open the editor, don't know what anyone else thinks about that.

again cheers!
Generally, I've stood away from including any function available by mouse clicks or buttons. I figured most people use the MIDI editor via double-click. I know that we can't yet set the inline editor to be the double-click option, so I assume that either you use the inline editor or an secondary editor.

If there isn't any objection to it, I'll put an 'Open' drop-down on the 'media item context' menu right between 'Properties' and 'Grouping', since the 'secondary editor'/'inline editor'/'open copy' are good reasons to add the 'Open' item.
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:24 PM   #82
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Are there any typos?
*ahem*

If you have "Routing matrix..." and "Grouping matrix...", then have "Track list...", "Marker list...", "Region list...", "Action list...", "Undo history..." (on Edit menu) as well.

Track->MEMORY->Selected Items (...) => Selected items (...)
Track->SNAPSHOTS->Filter mode->Snapshot fx => Snapshot FX

External Timecode => External timecode

Snap/grid settings... => Snap/Grid settings...

Ripple editing -> One Track, All Tracks => One track, All tracks

Subproject => I really think it's better to dash it, "Sub-project"

Time Signature/Tempo Change Marker => Time signature/Tempo change marker

Auto-Color => Auto-color (empty TCP/MCP context)

Insert midi controls... -> Insert MIDI controls... (TCP/MCP context)

Free Items => Free items (TCP/MCP)

play rate => playrate (everywhere)

Set to color white/black => Set to white/black (media context)

More (s)'s to remove in Mixer context.

Now Time => Now time

Default Channel => Default channel (MIDI menu)


That would be it, I hope.
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:26 PM   #83
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I recommend this setup as default, Cockos should implement it!
... with one important proviso ... there would need to be a simple one click option for switching between this and REAPER "classic" menus.

This is because no matter how much better organized and clearer Mike's menus may be (and indeed they are), existing users will still need the option of sticking to what they know rather than having to relearn, if that's what they prefer to do.
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:27 PM   #84
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*ahem*

That would be it, I hope.
Superb, man! Thanks.
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:35 PM   #85
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no problem, while ago i set double click to put a time selection around item and use a shortcut to edit quite often, but also r-click as a mouse option.
ignore me i think, this seems rather personal to me, so i'll tweak myself! cheers
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:37 PM   #86
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Now that I've had the time to take a good look at this, I have only one word to say.

Wow! Amazing! Superb!

Oops, that was three.
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:42 PM   #87
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Mike, just one point and it might just be me ...

I can't find "Show REAPER Resource path" anywhere on the Options menu.

Cheers and well done!
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:45 PM   #88
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Mike, just one point and it might just be me ...

I can't find "Show REAPER Resource path" anywhere on the Options menu.

Cheers and well done!
File>Tools
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:57 PM   #89
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File>Tools
Ah! Thanks!
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Old 05-28-2010, 05:59 PM   #90
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... with one important proviso ... there would need to be a simple one click option for switching between this and REAPER "classic" menus.

This is because no matter how much better organized and clearer Mike's menus may be (and indeed they are), existing users will still need the option of sticking to what they know rather than having to relearn, if that's what they prefer to do.
I respectfully disagree... The whole reason why our menus are a mess in the first place is due to this fear of losing perfect backwards workflow compatibility with older version. It seems like the devs aren't willing to actually push forward with improvements to the basic workflow and organization within the software because they don't want to "break" anything for existing users. Reaper is the only piece of software I've ever used that progress this way. If there is a better, more efficient way to do something, shouldn't it just replace the older less efficient way? Old users will get used to it, trust me. They will even learn to prefer it!

So much anger arises when a company like Facebook changes the layout of their page, but a week later nobody can even remember what it looked like before.

We need to make forward progress and leave the past behind once in a while, we can't just keep spinning our wheels while new features and functionality bloat up the menus and GUI out of fear of losing the old stuff.
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:00 PM   #91
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Is it a good idea to include the MIDI toolbars?
Is it a good idea to begin including a Main toolbar?
I exported my own Main and MIDI toolbars first so I could import them again after installing ReaMenus. I can keep doing that, of course, but I don't know if including these is a good idea. It seems to me that those are more in the "personal customizations" category rather than the "general good organization" one.

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Old 05-28-2010, 06:06 PM   #92
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Still, he organized them well. Except now I'm one click farther from setting up MIDI view. Then again, I have keyboard shortcuts :P
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:12 PM   #93
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Importing a MenuSet doesn't automatically import the toolbars, at least on OSX. If you are currently viewing a toolbar in the menu editor, then it will import toolbars but no menus, and if you are viewing a menu, it will import menus but no toolbars. So you should be able to import the menu set just fine without exporting your toolbars, even if the toolbars are included with the MenuSet file. Just import them while viewing a menu in the editor, not a toolbar.
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:27 PM   #94
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Hi Adam-

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Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
Importing a MenuSet doesn't automatically import the toolbars, at least on OSX. If you are currently viewing a toolbar in the menu editor, then it will import toolbars but no menus, and if you are viewing a menu, it will import menus but no toolbars. So you should be able to import the menu set just fine without exporting your toolbars, even if the toolbars are included with the MenuSet file. Just import them while viewing a menu in the editor, not a toolbar.
Ooh, that's good to know! I must've been viewing a toolbar at the time, then (I'm on Windows). I suppose it would be asking too much to have a .ReaperToolbar extension?

Thanks again, I totally missed that.

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Old 05-28-2010, 06:28 PM   #95
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All looks very good. So good that I installed #003, but I seem to have failed to save my defaults. I tried several times and I just could not get them to save?? But #003 went on anyway. Now I am nervous that I may find myself missing the Defaults! Any idea on how to get them back?

I know you gave directions to export the defaults, but I went ahead anyway!
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:29 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
I respectfully disagree... The whole reason why our menus are a mess in the first place is due to this fear of losing perfect backwards workflow compatibility with older version. It seems like the devs aren't willing to actually push forward with improvements to the basic workflow and organization within the software because they don't want to "break" anything for existing users. Reaper is the only piece of software I've ever used that progress this way. If there is a better, more efficient way to do something, shouldn't it just replace the older less efficient way? Old users will get used to it, trust me. They will even learn to prefer it!

So much anger arises when a company like Facebook changes the layout of their page, but a week later nobody can even remember what it looked like before.

We need to make forward progress and leave the past behind once in a while, we can't just keep spinning our wheels while new features and functionality bloat up the menus and GUI out of fear of losing the old stuff.
I agree with this sentiment entirely, and acknowledging my voice as but one among many, I'll speak my piece...

My sister drives her car looking in the rear-view mirror constantly and she's gotten into more accidents than anyone I've ever known. I've been in the car with her while she screams at yet another car 'riding up her ass' even as she loses her the outside of her door to the bumper of a parked Hummer. Never has she ever been hit from behind, and yet she'll drive slower just to spite those cars driving behind her on the freeway.

Me, on the other hand, I just drive. I obey the laws of the road, and when a lane opens up, I'll always take it, because doing so also helps out the cars behind me (whether or not there are any). I've never gotten into even a tiny accident, I've never had road rage, and I'm not a perfect driver, but I do my best. I once read a research report that shows that traffic often develops spontaneously, not because of an accident, just because of a random set of slow-movers, distracted drivers, or spiteful sisters end up within the same few lanes.

Probably, we all see a lot of stuff in life on the road. Progress and software development are like this. We've all witnessed the great shift between a hardware-based studio to a software-based studio. Yes, the 'feel' of knobs is nice, but we know unanimously that a computer is a better way to make music. Maybe 10 years ago, some could argue that there were advantages to hardware music, but we made it over the hump. We're in the new paradigm.

We should encourage constant paradigm shift, if only to prevent traffic. But the great thing is, there are even better reasons than preventing traffic, because without traffic, the more easily, the more quickly, and the more safely we can get to our destination. The better our tools and the quicker we learn those tools, the better off we are as individuals and as a community of drivers on the road.

With just menus, it's easy to allow people to keep their old menus. Just export 'em and they old menus are yours forever. But I didn't write all this to talk about menus. I'm really thinking, as we all are, about the future and about REAPER because if REAPER was in front of me on the road, I'd want them to go a little faster, if only to allow me the option to proceed at my own rate. If they weren't going faster forward, then I wouldn't even have the option and we all want more options, don't we?
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:32 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by AdamWathan View Post
I respectfully disagree... The whole reason why our menus are a mess in the first place is due to this fear of losing perfect backwards workflow compatibility with older version. It seems like the devs aren't willing to actually push forward with improvements to the basic workflow and organization within the software because they don't want to "break" anything for existing users. Reaper is the only piece of software I've ever used that progress this way. If there is a better, more efficient way to do something, shouldn't it just replace the older less efficient way? Old users will get used to it, trust me. They will even learn to prefer it!

So much anger arises when a company like Facebook changes the layout of their page, but a week later nobody can even remember what it looked like before.

We need to make forward progress and leave the past behind once in a while, we can't just keep spinning our wheels while new features and functionality bloat up the menus and GUI out of fear of losing the old stuff.
You may well be right, I just can't help feeling uncomfortable with denying individual users the right to choose for themselves where possible. At least for a transitional period ...
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Old 05-28-2010, 06:35 PM   #98
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All looks very good. So good that I installed #003, but I seem to have failed to save my defaults. I tried several times and I just could not get them to save?? But #003 went on anyway. Now I am nervous that I may find myself missing the Defaults! Any idea on how to get them back?

I know you gave directions to export the defaults, but I went ahead anyway!
If you think you saved them, do a file search for whatever you exported them as. Maybe you just forgot where you exported them too.

If you didn't actually export them, then I'm sorry to say they're gone for good.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:03 PM   #99
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One small point, others may disagree and it's no big deal anyway, just thought I'd mention it ...

Seeing as Auto-Color settings are general and (unlike track list, marker list, snapshots, etc) not project specific, I wonder if this item could more logically appear somewhere other than the Project submenu Of View) - for example, possibly with Tools or Assets ... ?
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:05 PM   #100
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One small point, others may disagree and it's no big deal anyway, just thought I'd mention it ...

Seeing as Auto-Color settings are general and (unlike track list, marker list, snapshots, etc) not project specific, I wonder if this item could more logically appear somewhere other than the Project submenu Of View) - for example, possibly with Tools or Assets ... ?
I didn't realize because I don't auto-color (yet--I just discovered them doing this project). I'll put Auto-color in Assets.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:09 PM   #101
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I didn't realize because I don't auto-color (yet--I just discovered them doing this project). I'll put Auto-color in Assets.
I already have in mine! Thanks!

Auto-color is amazing btw.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:10 PM   #102
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Nicely done, i had redone some of my menus, but i think i'm going to go with this as my base and maybe make some personal tweaks.

one thing i found was that the bypass chain option went missing from the FX menu.

that's the only thing i found might be good for default menu.

I haven't put #3 up yet though.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:18 PM   #103
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#3 already??? You rock Mike.

Edit: Hmm- the file still says '2'. I will give it a try anyway...
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:31 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Stop Continues View Post
If you think you saved them, do a file search for whatever you exported them as. Maybe you just forgot where you exported them too.

If you didn't actually export them, then I'm sorry to say they're gone for good.
Searched for "default" and found an application called something like "reset reaper to default settings.exe" ran this and all is back to original. Think I'll stick with the default menus for a while longer to be sure I understand what the capabilties are.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:32 PM   #105
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I'd just like to add one more comment ... what really impresses about this menu layout is that at least nine times out of ten I find I instinctively know where to go to find what I want.

That's almost spooky!
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:45 PM   #106
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I'd just like to add one more comment ... what really impresses about this menu layout is that at least nine times out of ten I find I instinctively know where to go to find what I want.

That's almost spooky!
I agree. It is very close to how I would organize it. It would have saved me hours when I was first learning REAPER.

BTW, where are you getting #3?? The download link on post #1 just still gives me #2.
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Old 05-28-2010, 07:54 PM   #107
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Nicely done, i had redone some of my menus, but i think i'm going to go with this as my base and maybe make some personal tweaks.

one thing i found was that the bypass chain option went missing from the FX menu.

that's the only thing i found might be good for default menu.

I haven't put #3 up yet though.
nevermind, it was in a subfolder, i guess that works for the default menu, and will be one of those personal changes i'll make.

good job guy, or i guess i should say guys.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:46 PM   #108
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BTW, where are you getting #3?? The download link on post #1 just still gives me #2.
I'm not sure why people are having this problem. Someone suggested it was a browser cache issue. I'll start using different file names for the zip from now on.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:58 PM   #109
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I'm not sure why people are having this problem. Someone suggested it was a browser cache issue. I'll start using different file names for the zip from now on.
Thanks. I cleared my cache several times and restarted. No luck on Chrome...

Thanks for all your work- very much appreciated.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:04 PM   #110
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for this....if nothing else, I believe it will again illustrate that some momentum is needed in GUI/interface improvement for Reaper.

Great work.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:35 PM   #111
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Thanks. I cleared my cache several times and restarted. No luck on Chrome...

Thanks for all your work- very much appreciated.
OK, I got #003 in Firefox. Weird.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:00 PM   #112
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It seems pretty well unanimous that this improved menu structure is a great thing. Perhaps with Reaper version 4 probably not all that far away, maybe it would be a good idea for the devs to consider this as the default with the new major release. Also, considering Nicholas's suggestion of not abandoning the "classic" layout, an option to load the old layout may be included for a transitional period.

Just a thought...

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Old 05-28-2010, 10:01 PM   #113
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Wow, your updates are as fast as the Reaper 'pre's here.

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Also, considering Nicholas's suggestion of not abandoning the "classic" layout, an option to load the old layout may be including for a transitional period.
It already kinda is, via the import button. Only now there will be the old "default" menuset that you can import not to break old workflows.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:07 PM   #114
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Is there a way to tell which version of ReaMenus is being used? If not, how about adding an "about ReaMenus"? This would be helpful to 'track' version updates in the future.

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Old 05-28-2010, 10:12 PM   #115
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It seems pretty well unanimous that this improved menu structure is a great thing. Perhaps with Reaper version 4 probably not all that far away, maybe it would be a good idea for the devs to consider this as the default with the new major release. Also, considering Nicholas's suggestion of not abandoning the "classic" layout, an option to load the old layout may be including for a transitional period.

Just a thought...
I think your suggesting of adopting this menu set as the new face of REAPER for v4 is brilliant.

And my reason for suggesting making the "classic" option available as preference (or by some other easy means) is as follows ...

Some people react to change less enthusiastically than others and can even be afraid of it. They find it stressful. Leaving the old one as a choice would give these people a security blanket. Even if they never use it, just knowing it's there ...

At the same time, the new REAPER 4 manual would show the new commands and menus and only the new commands and menus. This would encourage these users to gain the confidence to transition at a time of their choosing, and they would be doing it as their choice not because they were being forced to. Big difference.

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Old 05-28-2010, 10:15 PM   #116
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Some people react to change less enthusiastically than others and can even be afraid of it. They find it stressful.
Hey, you can't fool me. You're talking about BP, aren't you?
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:48 PM   #117
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All looks very good. So good that I installed #003, but I seem to have failed to save my defaults. I tried several times and I just could not get them to save?? But #003 went on anyway. Now I am nervous that I may find myself missing the Defaults! Any idea on how to get them back?

I know you gave directions to export the defaults, but I went ahead anyway!
I have this same problem saving the .ReaperMenuSet file. I save it to the Reaper/MenuSets folder and nothing gets saved. Even tried saving it to the desktop. Tried about a dozen times now. Nothing. But saving a file as a .ReaperMenu works fine. Not sure what the issue is.

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Old 05-28-2010, 10:54 PM   #118
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I'm sure someone with a default menu set could upload it for the archives. I think mine was default so at least that will be available.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:34 PM   #119
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Great work Mike. These are logical and intuitive.

A couple of small things:

* Importing ReaMenus #003 on my laptop (Win7 32 bit) made my REAPER (3.53 pre6) freeze. Once I force quit REAPER and relaunched it, the new menus came up and all is well.

* My main toolbar was replaced with a new one. I'm not sure if this is intentional but some of the buttons I created with my new Neve / Calrec theme don't seem to match the new functions. Resetting this toolbar to default restored things.

A side benefit to this second point is that I discovered some new buttons I need to skin for my new theme.

Edit - One more thing I just noticed....

* My edit menu still shows the default. Perhaps this has something to do with the hang during installation.

Last edited by ReaDave; 05-28-2010 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:39 PM   #120
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How do we get version 3? Version 2 is all I see...


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