Old 09-29-2011, 11:16 AM   #41
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

So is that guy! ... wow, there are loads of us.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:02 PM   #42
Seventh
Human being with feelings
 
Seventh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Finland
Posts: 776
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrelwood View Post
Since don't know how long, I finally used a two monitor setup. I thought I have a bug in my hands since the plugin windows focus differently on the mixer window than on the main window.

I find this issue pretty urgent and overdue. In my mind the simpliest solution:

Mixer window always stays behind plugin windows (and dialogues).
Here I've proposed a solution:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=76935
Seventh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2011, 12:39 PM   #43
mrelwood
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,187
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
This guys is right!!
While I have voted stupidly when younger, I wouldn't go that far... I'm actually oriented a bit to the left.

;o)

Great to have this important topic back on the table!
_

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seventh View Post
Here I've proposed a solution:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=76935
That would be a solution also, but since plugins behind the mixer is a very rare situation to wish for, the mixer window should be pinned "back" by default.
__________________
- MacBook Pro 2010, latest OSX, latest 32bit Reaper (Registered)
- Behringer FCA610, Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 DSP (+ADA8000)
- Focal Alpha 65, Focal CMS 40, Focal Spirit Professional
mrelwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 09:17 AM   #44
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default gahh

In true reaper fashion, it can be done ... but in this case it's a real pita ...

Should users really be expected to open each of their plugins and click the pin button just for this .ini to fill up with "= 1" ?

[IMG]http://img52.**************/img52/2971/gahh.png[/IMG]

... no. How come this can't be done automatically?

I guess because not everyone wants plugins to pin automatically. This is another request for the option to do so

Last edited by timlloyd; 10-09-2011 at 09:30 AM.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2011, 11:48 AM   #45
kgarello
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 199
Default

This issue continually drives me crazy.

Also having to click on a FX button more than once to focus the correct FX window.

I'll click an FX button and start to adjust and suddenly realize i'm adjusting the wrong FX instance.
kgarello is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 05:26 PM   #46
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 6,964
Default pinned plugins cover plugin dialog boxes

It happened to me several times now that upon loading a patch in Kontakt the dialog box popup of Kontakt asking for missing samples got covered by the pinned Kontakt GUI.

As this box requires an input I'm not able to click the Kontakt GUI away or move it to uncover the dialog box.
Only solution I found was going into task manager and quit Reaper.

Anyone else can confirm this issue ?
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 05:28 PM   #47
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

Such things have been reported before iirc - you're not alone.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2011, 05:33 PM   #48
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 6,964
Default

Thanks for confirming.
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2011, 12:12 AM   #49
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 15,509
Default

I know Justin has chimed in already, but could some clever person do a FR that we can all vote for?

To my mind, this is bordering on being a bug, the default behaviour is SO counter-intuitive.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2011, 01:11 AM   #50
philait
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Newcastle - UK
Posts: 567
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish View Post
It happened to me several times now that upon loading a patch in Kontakt the dialog box popup of Kontakt asking for missing samples got covered by the pinned Kontakt GUI.

As this box requires an input I'm not able to click the Kontakt GUI away or move it to uncover the dialog box.
Only solution I found was going into task manager and quit Reaper.

Anyone else can confirm this issue ?
Confirmed I see this in Omnisphere and Trilian a lot, if the reset patch or reset multi dialogue comes up you can't click on it as it's behind the main plugin window. Annoying to say the least.
philait is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2011, 02:18 AM   #51
jdutaillis
Human being with feelings
 
jdutaillis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I know Justin has chimed in already, but could some clever person do a FR that we can all vote for?

To my mind, this is bordering on being a bug, the default behaviour is SO counter-intuitive.
Got one right here for ya champ: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=425

This is currently an elevated FR so hopefully it gets a final conclusion soon. We had it for a while in one of the V3 pre-releases but it was really buggy so it got cut
__________________
REAPER | Prism Sound Orpheus | Edirol PCR-M50 | Genelec 8020a + 7050B
Check out my website and blog HERE!
jdutaillis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #52
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

bumping ...

This still doesn't work properly.

The window pinning causes problems. Some dialogs hide under pinned windows, as do some of reaper's windows that don't have pins (i.e. track/send controls {not i/o window}).

I keep having plugins that I've used loads of times, and pinned loads of times, opening up unpinned.

Drives me batty. Please reconsider just pinning an undocked mixer underneath everything by default and getting rid of the pin system.

Last edited by timlloyd; 04-23-2012 at 12:37 PM.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 02:00 PM   #53
ReaDave
Human being with feelings
 
ReaDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (originally from Geelong)
Posts: 4,789
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
bumping ...

This still doesn't work properly.

The window pinning causes problems. Some dialogs hide under pinned windows, as do some of reaper's windows that don't have pins (i.e. track/send controls {not i/o window}).

I keep having plugins that I've used loads of times, and pinned loads of times, opening up unpinned.

Drives me batty. Please reconsider just pinning an undocked mixer underneath everything by default and getting rid of the pin system.
+1,000,000
ReaDave is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 02:20 PM   #54
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

^ I would dearly love for J, C or S to explain why it won't work to pin the mixer to the bottom, if that would be a reason why it's not been done and we have these manual "pins" instead.

If that explanation has already been given, please could someone point me to it/remind me?

Because ... an OS already manages open windows on its own afaik. And, in this "plugins falling behind the mixer" issue, it's the mixer window that's the cause of the problems, not all the plugins!

I don't grok
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 04:37 PM   #55
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

It seems to me that REAPER has many issues with handling graphics z-order and focus, and is messing with the native OS in ways that it really shouldn't (like, why does Spaces on OS X seem to be broken when REAPER is running, but works fine otherwise?). I can even get excited about finally being able to use the standard OS keyboard shortcuts to switch focus between the different REAPER windows... go figure. How come REAPER is the *only* app that I see having problems with this stuff? How hard is it to just let the OS do its job?

Here's another z-order/focus bug for you annoyment.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 05:22 PM   #56
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 6,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
Please reconsider just pinning an undocked mixer underneath everything by default and getting rid of the pin system.
+1
but also to consider:
I have the mixer docked fullscreen on a second monitor and I have also problems (reported earlier in this thread).
There should also be a solution found when having the mixer docked. Maybe also optionally pin a floating docker underneath everything ?
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 05:26 PM   #57
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
It seems to me that REAPER has many issues with handling graphics z-order and focus, and is messing with the native OS in ways that it really shouldn't (like, why does Spaces on OS X seem to be broken when REAPER is running, but works fine otherwise?). I can even get excited about finally being able to use the standard OS keyboard shortcuts to switch focus between the different REAPER windows... go figure. How come REAPER is the *only* app that I see having problems with this stuff? How hard is it to just let the OS do its job?

Here's another z-order/focus bug for you annoyment.
Always On Top or "TopMost" is an OS Window message/setting/property. Not that defaulting to plugins over the mixer isn't doable but the basic setting is a property set on a window in the OS sense, been that way since windows 95 or earlier IIRC. Meaning there aren't any/many choices for the setting, the last window to get it is on top of all others regardless of what process the window is a part of. I don't remember if/what z-order options are available but I do know that generally AWOT is a single setting that is basically OS wide. (don't quote me though)
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 06:03 PM   #58
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 9,650
Default

Protools handles this a bit better.

We've got two basic problems. Z-priorities and the static beast that is the arrangement area.

The pin system is neat, but it's not enough even if it were working perfectly which it is not yet doing.

If I want a large mixer window, it has to float. Problem no.1. Then I open plugins, click on the mixer window, boom, it's in front of everything unless I laberously pin any plugin window to the top.

If the mixer could take the place of the arrangement area, and any other view could do that as well, we could at least keep the main stuff flat on the main window, which is in the background at all times by default.


So to solve this problem, two things can be done in any order. Let folks swap out the arrangement area, the central dockerone could call that. Secondly, make a good automatic priority ordering, with plugins always on top and everything else in front of the main window.

Anyone have a more creative idea that requires this little user interaction ? And no side-quest-ideas now. Keep it on topic, please.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 06:11 PM   #59
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Always On Top or "TopMost" is an OS Window message/setting/property. Not that defaulting to plugins over the mixer isn't doable but the basic setting is a property set on a window in the OS sense, been that way since windows 95 or earlier IIRC. Meaning there aren't any/many choices for the setting, the last window to get it is on top of all others regardless of what process the window is a part of. I don't remember if/what z-order options are available but I do know that generally AWOT is a single setting that is basically OS wide. (don't quote me though)
Did you miss my reference to OS X? *I am not on Windows*. In my case it would rather be called 'force floating', which is not an option provided to end users by the OS. I'm referring to 'native OS' in a general sense, and I really don't think Apple has been following those Windows 95 (or earlier) conventions. Fwiw, in the many years I've used REAPER on Windows, this type of stuff felt pretty badly broken too.

What you say makes absolutely no sense to me. A single OS wide setting would be of no use, if it could even work at all (everything would always be on top of everything else); it needs to be specific to a (subset of) window(s) to have any meaning at all, so I presume, that is what you meant? In that case, it should indeed be respected by everything else, OS wide - at least *if everything else complies with the OS's way of doing things. My point is that REAPER is *NOT* following this practice.

This has nothing to do with whatever options the OS exposes to end users, it has to do with the developers failing to use the native features of the underlying OS properly. To me it's self-evident that REAPER is *breaking* the normal features of the OS I'm using. YMMV.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 06:13 PM   #60
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Did you miss my reference to OS X? *I am not on Windows*. In my case it would rather be called 'force floating', which is not an option provided to end users by the OS. I'm referring to 'native OS' in a general sense, and I really don't think Apple has been following those Windows 95 (or earlier) conventions. Fwiw, in the many years I've used REAPER on Windows, this type of stuff felt pretty badly broken too.
Sorry

Quote:
What you say makes absolutely no sense to me. A single OS wide setting would be of no use, if it could even work at all (everything would always be on top of everything else); it needs to be specific to a (subset of) window(s) to have any meaning at all, so I presume, that is what you meant? In that case, it should indeed be respected by everything else, OS wide - at least *if everything else complies with the OS's way of doing things. My point is that REAPER is *NOT* following this practice.
Sorry again

Quote:
This has nothing to do with whatever options the OS exposes to end users, it has to do with the developers failing to use the native features of the underlying OS properly. To me it's self-evident that REAPER is *breaking* the normal features of the OS I'm using. YMMV.
And sorry again..... It just reminded me of how I think I remember windows working when I used to set that option so I thought I would mention it. Carry on with the rants as I am clearly not as passionate about this. It was strictly a technical and unemotional observation.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.

Last edited by karbomusic; 04-24-2012 at 10:16 AM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2012, 06:23 PM   #61
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18,829
Default

Quote:
What you say makes absolutely no sense to me. A single OS wide setting would be of no use
I'll add this... Back in the day it was the only use, to keep application A from falling behind Application B unless minimized. Its been way too long but IIRC "windows" (the concept not the OS) have to be kept up with at the OS level. This is how the OS can intercept keyboard commands and target the correct window and so on, message pumps and a few other things I recall. So they are a collection at the OS level from day 1. Now whether its peachy to tell the OS to TopMost based on process coulda, shoulda, woulda been available, I surely don't know; I'd have to dig into some Win or OSX APIs for specifics. However it should make at least some sense based on the above concerning keeping one above others etc along with where the ability originally came from which was between different processes IIRC.

A final IIRC is justin handles much of this himself or at least stays outside most of the built in windowing classes (in windows). So it is either much easier or much harder to address based on that alone. Feel free to double check me on all of this, I'm working from snippets of memory here so some details will be off. Again, I have no dog in this fight just adding some info.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.

Last edited by karbomusic; 04-23-2012 at 06:33 PM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 05:21 AM   #62
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

No need to apologize, sir.
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
[...] A final IIRC is justin handles much of this himself or at least stays outside most of the built in windowing classes (in windows). So it is either much easier or much harder to address based on that alone. [...]
And I think that is the core issue here.

If you're making a game, like a first person shoot-em-up for example, I can see why you'd want to roll your own system for everything, windows, text rendering, dialogs, data input, you name it. You may want to provide a more immersive user experience, and as uniform as possible across platforms. So you may want to develop as platform-agnostic as possible, and you want to obscure everything that even hints to the existence of the underlying OS.

But this strategy does not make much sense when you need an application to interact with other stuff (apps, files, devices) on the same system all the time.

I can also see why such a strategy of rolling your own functionality for basic OS level tasks may *historically* have been a good one. I'm not trying to stir up OS flamewars here, but let's be honest: Windows used to be pretty bad as an OS. But it has also come a long way since the first versions of REAPER. My hunch is that at this point, REAPER's user experience could be much improved by using more rather than less of the native OS features. And perhaps 'letting go' may require cutting some emotional attachments as well... at least, I know that I have problems tossing out old code myself. I like to roll my own stuff too. But there are cases where just getting a pack of prefab stuff works best.

PS: I just came across this thread, which reinforces what I wrote in my previous about REAPER on Windows. Apparently the basic OS-level focus switching is still sort of broken there too.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ

Last edited by Banned; 04-25-2012 at 05:38 AM.
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 07:55 AM   #63
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 9,650
Default

An Auto-pinning checkbox in the preference plugin section would be a good start, though I'm willing to wait for a refined solution if there will be one.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 09:19 AM   #64
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

^ I really think that the entire thing needs to be rethought - the pins aren't working imvho.

Have a look at how Studio One 2 is done. There seem to be 4 "classes" of window.

1) 1st level - Edit/arrange - "pinned" to the bottom at all times
2) 2nd level - floating mixer/console, floating editor - "pinned" above the edit/arrange at all times. The most recently clicked one of the two is on top - but only in that level.
3) 3rd level - plugins - always above 1st and 2nd level - whichever plugin is most recently clicked on is on top.
4) 4th level - dialogs, preferences window - always on top

It doesn't require manual pinning at all.

// ---

This is pretty much what we need in reaper, with a few tweaks because there are more windows.

1) 1st level - edit/arrange
2) 2nd level - floating dockers, floating mixer, undocked region/track manager, project bays, grouping/routing matrix, big clock, navigator, perf meter
3) 3rd level - plugins, fx-chain, io/track control windows, media item properties
4) 4th level - always on top - preferences, project options, all dialog windows

Or maybe go even simpler:

1) edit/arrange
2) floating docker & undocked floating mixer
3) everything else
4) prefs/dialogs

The key feature being that each level is separate, but within each level, the most recently clicked window takes precedence over the others in that level only. Maybe it would be helpful for some people, if there was a simple way of (in preferences) assigning windows to a given level.

Imo, the problem is that in reaper, there are loads of windows, and apart from the edit/arrange and some dialogs they are all fighting to be first. I think we need more forced differentiation between types of windows, like in Studio One.

We have 3 levels now, but I think we need 4, and no manual pins. Or, does anyone have a better idea?

// --

Key command-passthrough (or lack of) of certain windows is also a related issue that needs sorting out. Comes down to, reaper's way of dealing with windows is not complete, and there's a strong argument for it being fundamentally buggy.

Last edited by timlloyd; 04-25-2012 at 09:31 AM.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 10:03 AM   #65
Cresta
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Italy
Posts: 132
Default

lol I am not alone it seems xD
I need a dozen of floating windows all at the same time.... crossing fingers, hopefully devs will find a solution
Cresta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 11:27 AM   #66
Sound asleep
Human being with feelings
 
Sound asleep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 7,286
Default

yes, please make fr so i can vote for this. fx windows pinned as on top by default. i only use one screen, but still, this is the default behaviour i want. i'm not even sure i would ever unpin any FX window, if they came this way by default.
__________________
Miles in your Shoes Original tune

You Rock My World remix
Sound asleep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 01:45 PM   #67
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
yes, please make fr so i can vote for this. fx windows pinned as on top by default. i only use one screen, but still, this is the default behaviour i want. i'm not even sure i would ever unpin any FX window, if they came this way by default.
But the problem is this - is the manual pin system really the best we can expect to see in reaper? Is it the best way of dealing with this? If not, then it needs to be scrapped in favour of what is.

So what is the best way of sorting this out? Is it the pin system minus current bugs, or is it something else?

Btw, the FR that was originally made to deal with this "plugins on top" issue has been closed and is labelled "implemented".
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 02:07 PM   #68
Sound asleep
Human being with feelings
 
Sound asleep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 7,286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
But the problem is this - is the manual pin system really the best we can expect to see in reaper? Is it the best way of dealing with this? If not, then it needs to be scrapped in favour of what is.

So what is the best way of sorting this out? Is it the pin system minus current bugs, or is it something else?

Btw, the FR that was originally made to deal with this "plugins on top" issue has been closed and is labelled "implemented".
ya, we need a new fr for plugins on top, and a separate one, for the problem of fx dialog windows being hidden.

i think that plugins auto set to on top, would not be too difficult to implement, but you never know.

as for the other problem, it may be much more difficult, or impossible. not sure how to get around that one. imo windows or os in general, should allow for window options ( top bar, minimize, maximize and all that stuff) to be accessible when dialogues popup. everything within windows should be blocked from access, but moving the windows or sizing them should be allowed for this very reason. it is not only in reaper that things like this have happened to me. it doesn't happen often, but it sucks when it does.

a way around it with windows, is that windows allows for cycling through your programs with windows tab or alt tab, and when you do that, it reorganizes the windows correctly.

not sure if you'd get the same from cycling through your FX that way, but there is an action for that. it's worth a try at any rate.
__________________
Miles in your Shoes Original tune

You Rock My World remix
Sound asleep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 02:19 PM   #69
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
ya, we need a new fr for plugins on top, and a separate one, for the problem of fx dialog windows being hidden.
I completely disagree. This is all part of the same problem, and it all needs to be taken into account in order to arrive at a solution that works all the time - preferably with no extra work on each user's side.

Not to mention that it needs to take SWS windows into account, which the current pin system does not do properly - on OSX at least, none of the pins on SWS windows work at all.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 02:30 PM   #70
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18,829
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
No need to apologize, sir.

And I think that is the core issue here.
I don't disagree it could be better, trust me on that one.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 02:39 PM   #71
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 18,829
Default

Quote:
1) 1st level - Edit/arrange - "pinned" to the bottom at all times
2) 2nd level - floating mixer/console, floating editor - "pinned" above the edit/arrange at all times. The most recently clicked one of the two is on top - but only in that level.
3) 3rd level - plugins - always above 1st and 2nd level - whichever plugin is most recently clicked on is on top.
4) 4th level - dialogs, preferences window - always on top
Not that its that relevant but I'll bet some of those above are due to the base class of window being used... (modal, non-modal, toolwindow + child/parent and MDI etc). Obviously any window that forces you to close it first before using the other windows is considered modal. Many of the Reaper windows are now non-modal, meaning you can just access any window that is visible which creates a need for pinning by default. Using so many non-modal windows in an app (I can tell you from experience) can get buggy and complicated very quickly to properly manage.

I'm not saying its not solvable and others don't do it better, just mentioning some of the reasons you guys may be seeing some of the weird behaviors.
__________________
Your whole life people will tell you what you can't do. Getting past them is the first step to actually getting things done.

Last edited by karbomusic; 04-25-2012 at 02:44 PM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 03:22 PM   #72
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Not that its that relevant but I'll bet some of those above are due to the base class of window being used... (modal, non-modal, toolwindow + child/parent and MDI etc). Obviously any window that forces you to close it first before using the other windows is considered modal. Many of the Reaper windows are now non-modal, meaning you can just access any window that is visible which creates a need for pinning by default. Using so many non-modal windows in an app (I can tell you from experience) can get buggy and complicated very quickly to properly manage.

I'm not saying its not solvable and others don't do it better, just mentioning some of the reasons you guys may be seeing some of the weird behaviors.
All DAWs have to deal with this problem, and the same plugins. Yet imho they all handle this more elegantly than REAPER, even when they are also targeting multiple OSs.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2012, 09:09 PM   #73
Sound asleep
Human being with feelings
 
Sound asleep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 7,286
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
I completely disagree. This is all part of the same problem, and it all needs to be taken into account in order to arrive at a solution that works all the time - preferably with no extra work on each user's side.

Not to mention that it needs to take SWS windows into account, which the current pin system does not do properly - on OSX at least, none of the pins on SWS windows work at all.
whatever, for me one might be an easier fix, than another, so i would put 2 separate frs. and if devs want to solve both with one solution, then so be it.

i guess it doesn't really matter to me. the devs could do one at a time or both at once, no matter how we formulate the frs.
__________________
Miles in your Shoes Original tune

You Rock My World remix
Sound asleep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 12:07 PM   #74
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

Bump!

Anyone else feel like chipping in?



oh go on ...
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 03:14 PM   #75
Mercado_Negro
Moderator
 
Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,080
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by timlloyd View Post
In true reaper fashion, it can be done ... but in this case it's a real pita ...

Should users really be expected to open each of their plugins and click the pin button just for this .ini to fill up with "= 1" ?

[IMG]http://img52.**************/img52/2971/gahh.png[/IMG]

... no. How come this can't be done automatically?

I guess because not everyone wants plugins to pin automatically. This is another request for the option to do so
The bad thing about this is plug-ins from previous projects won't follow this "1's" or "0's" if you set them all manually (like I just did). Furthermore, REAPER doesn't handle "top-most" behaviors properly where sometimes you can't even access your Windows Start menu or toolbars if you've added or shown a "pinned" plug-in.

Right now it is a pain to work with a fully maximized mixer.
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
Mercado_Negro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 02:14 AM   #76
BM1000
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 40
Default

Bump.

Before finding this discussion, I already posted another thread about this very same issue. The dialog windows being hidden when pinned (to prevent plugins to be hidden by the mixer window) annoyed me so much that I actually use Reaper a bit like Ableton Live now, so that I am seeing either all TCP and no mixer or a lot of the mixer and very little TCP by pressing the tab. This leaves my other screen free for plugins. It is not that bad since I already got used to it earlier when using Live, before jumping ship to Reaper (because of problems like this).

I would definitely like to see this issue addressed. Preferably correcting the whole behavior so that the mixer would stay behind everything (pretty much the 4 window class system "timlloyd" proposed earlier in this thread), but if something like that takes a long time to do, just a fix to make the dialog boxes appear on top of the pinned plugins would be awesome.
BM1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 05:45 AM   #77
airon
Human being with feelings
 
airon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: City
Posts: 9,650
Default

This request(already in the FR tracker and hopefully augmented by some of the ideas in this thread in the minds of the devs) is on the Elevated FR list.

It's a workflow bug one might say, so I do suppose it should take precedent over non-workflow issues, but not over other bugs .

Maybe Justin'll have a crazy weekend with this, putting good ideas in to action.
__________________
Dialogue/FX Editor & Re-Recording Mixer
Using Latch Preview
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
airon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 07:28 AM   #78
Banned
Human being with feelings
 
Banned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Unwired (probably in the proximity of Amsterdam)
Posts: 4,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post
[...] It's a workflow bug one might say, so I do suppose it should take precedent over non-workflow issues, but not over other bugs [...]
I disagree. The kind of bug that affects the underlying OS or third party apps *outside* of REAPER should make it a top priority, taking precedent over any bugs only affecting REAPER internally. As I mentioned before, this one negatively affects the normal features of the underlying OS.
__________________
˙lɐd 'ʎɐʍ ƃuoɹʍ ǝɥʇ ǝɔıʌǝp ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıploɥ ǝɹ,noʎ
Banned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2012, 03:21 PM   #79
ThePriest
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tuscany (Italy)
Posts: 144
Default

Developers, please, make an option to enable/disable the pin icon, using Actual Window Manager the pin icon is extremely annoying.
ThePriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2012, 07:00 AM   #80
timlloyd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,713
Default

bump

Previously pinned plugins opening up un-pinned and behind other pinned plugins. So frustrating.

Please sort this stuff out.
timlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.