Old 12-02-2014, 07:54 AM   #81
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What I didn't mention is that since rather recently I use all three OSes on my computers. First came Linux Debian and then even OS-X. So technically I'm also using a BSD, too [OS-X]. People who know me know that I'm a big computer and OS enthusiast, and very computer and OS savvy. More than 50% of my profits come from computer assembly and maintenance, for audio usage specifically.

I'm fond of all the OSes available today in some way. It's hard to hate something that you use on a daily basis, but I am not so fond of Windows, I must say that, mostly due to not agreeing where that OS is going, and what's become of it. It's sad.

However, having said that, I firmly stand behind what I sad earlier.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:27 AM   #82
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I hear that!

I use quite a few mods to "bend" windows 8 to my will but it's definitely not crap though It really doesn't crash/BSOD and apart from my one set of issues trying to get 30 plus USB devices to all have enough resources it's been really good.

I guess if we are determined enough we can make anything work for us

I do hope in the future everything becomes more open but it might just take a few decades. in the meantime, "I'll be sucking the cool-aid" till then!
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:20 AM   #83
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I do hope in the future everything becomes more open but it might just take a few decades. in the meantime, "I'll be sucking the cool-aid" till then!
Yes, we can pretty much just hope and suck on the "cool aid". I concur. But it's also good to be prepared, and using Linux for Internet is awesome - the sense of freedom and invulnerability you get. With Windows you just never know where or when you're going to pick up your next malware: from Windows update or some stupid webpage. It's just a matter of time. Therefore I do use Linux for everything but audio these days, and OS-X is just for my wife as she's just so used to it. I am pushing her towards using Ubuntu, though... this v14.10 is very idiot proof and easy to install. I'd recommend it to everyone. Not for me, though. I'm just too much of a tweaker and like to install everything by myself... Using Linux also just entices me [or even begs ] for reinstallation every 6 months or so just to try "that new distro". It's quite fun for me, like a game. Several different desktop environments to choose from. It so sooo much fun. [just to remind you "where I'm coming from" ] Computers and OSes are fun for me.

I still sometimes use Atari and Amiga... and tinker with Commodore, Spectrum and Apple IIc. It keeps my synapses in shape. LOL Maybe the problem with the new generation is that they don't like to use different systems? Or they have different priorities? For me an OS is just an OS. Not a god, not a brand, too. It makes apps run. :shrug: But some do it better than others... and some cost money while others are free to use. Some are plagued by viruses and malware whilst others aren't [yet :/]. Using Linux for an Internet and "family" computer has got so much benefits. You should all give it a try. Oh I could go on and on about this... LOL I hope you don't mind. Just tell me to STFU and I will. No offence. People here are interested in audio and music, after all. Me too. The other half of me is.

But speaking of audio, there are programs on Linux that both Windows and OS-X can be jealous about... Yes, I do mean C-Sound, amongst other things.

Cheers!
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:40 AM   #84
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I'm curious at how much performance difference Linux still can bring to the table in direct comparison to windows 7/8 with a decent sound card.

If it's not more than 30%. I can't see it being worth the massive undertaking as modern PCs with decent soundcards (internal PCI cards at least) can already do 32 samples and boot in 8 seconds and have more power than most people could use. As for stability, no issues here with running my system in the field.

I'm not saying I wouldn't be interested myself. Just it would need to have massive benefits and not just "semi-political" ones
Besides all the ideological stuff that I share...

I can get 32 samples on a integrated realtek audio card using jack on linux (with Bitwig) .

After that you have much more stability, you can use a real pc environment (actually many, from cinnamon to Unity, to gnome or mate, among others) instead that horrible-metro-thing that comes with W8.1 (and better enviroments for that sort of thing to ), it is more secure, do not force updates (much less at the worst moments) on you, it is always supported, it can have a lot of costum work on it etc....
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Old 12-06-2014, 11:05 AM   #85
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I appears to me that Cockos threw down a gauntlet to the people asking for linux support. Port SWELL and we'll do the rest, no one picked it up..

That said I don't think it's all that difficult, I nearly had it ported before I gave up, and I'm sure that a competent programmer could do it in a few weeks (or maybe even days).

Personally I don't care all that much, as I run 64b reaper with all my vst(i)s in wine with wineasio for a couple of years already. Works very well, and good enough for my purposes.

The only fly in the ointment are xruns (linux parlour for audio dropouts). It could be used in a pro setting at higher latency, but low latency is a bit more dodgy. I can run it for days without an xrun at 256 samples buffer, 13.7ms on my rme pci multiface, and 19.1ms on my babyface usb. This is low enough latency for me, and I don't really notice it on guitar, bass, keys.

Been mixing my band on reaper/linux for years now
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Old 12-08-2014, 09:25 AM   #86
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I run 64b reaper with all my vst(i)s in wine with wineasio for a couple of years already. Works very well, and good enough for my purposes.
Tried it. But WineASIO is a mess. Tried to set up with several tut sites...maybe I am too dumb...

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Old 12-08-2014, 01:10 PM   #87
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Tried it. But WineASIO is a mess. Tried to set up with several tut sites...maybe I am too dumb...
Thanks, since I'm the current maintainer of wineasio

That said, yeah it's a mess... But if you have a debian system, then use the kxstudio addon repos, they make it easy. But mostly this is to do with legal stuff and how distros have setup the audio/system.
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Old 12-08-2014, 03:02 PM   #88
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Tried it. But WineASIO is a mess. Tried to set up with several tut sites...maybe I am too dumb...
Same here.

I recently installed Ubuntu with Bitwig Studio to try out U-HE's new Linux ports of Zebra, Bazille etc.

While the plugins work better than on windows setting up any audio in Linux is painful at least.

While Linux is better in so many ways it suffers from the fact that only experts use it and none of those takes the time to create a working tutorial or some installer gui.

Try to find and install Linuxsampler on Ubuntu... or Wineasio...

Ubuntu's strange gui makes it even worse.

It's sad. I would switch immediatly when basic stuff would be easier.
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Old 12-08-2014, 03:26 PM   #89
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Thanks, since I'm the current maintainer of wineasio

That said, yeah it's a mess... But if you have a debian system, then use the kxstudio addon repos, they make it easy. But mostly this is to do with legal stuff and how distros have setup the audio/system.
LoL, coincidence?!

I use Arch (Antergos). The only out-of-the-box distro which doesn't look like the late 90s.
Maybe we can get in touch somwhere else or is offtopic okay here?

I can set up WineASIO in Reaper, but all I get is a Reaper crash when Jack runs. If its shut down, there is no crash, nad no inputs or outputs.

(Happens with internal soundcard and Avid MBox Mini3)

@Jack Winter: recorded my issue -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kRBdJDS5s (see error log in yt desciption)

Same with my Laptop and internal soundcard. The very same error log: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_6HrOLv49Y

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Old 12-11-2014, 01:19 PM   #90
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I don't think anything regarding Linux/audio/REAPER is OT here.

Personally, I think there aren't too many forums we can discuss Linux and audio stuff in, so why not here? d=

@typewriter: don't give up, mate! Maybe trying my way will kinda open your eyes and make you appreciate Linux more. I'm still using Windows XP and W7 for music, but I have a parallel Linux setup on both computers that I use for my everyday tasks and to experiment with music. That is, I'm not only focussed on Linux to make music, but I'm trying and enjoying the experience all while I can do music in Windows. Yeah, I'm a bitch... I play it safe. Believe me, in time, Linux is just going to get better and easier to deal with regarding music. For browsing and daily tasks it is already there and then some. I love it! I just can't see myself using anything else any more for daily tasks. Goodbye viruses and malware! ;P Not to mention since I'm a computer maintenance guy, I really love a plethora of Linux applications that deal with hardware and feel really good to work with like GParted or Red Hat Disk Tools, for example. There is a great choice of tools on Linux to repair and diagnose computer hardware that I find somewhat better than the ones I used to use in Windows.

I probably mentioned that I use Debian Linux? Wheezy on my desktop and Jessie on my laptop. Since I'm really satisfied with Jessie, as soon as it gets released [stable] I'm going to install it on my main computer. It boots like within a few seconds... from the *cold start*! That is, nothing is cached! [like in Windows] :P I also use Xfce as my desktop currently. I think it's better to use some light desktop environment for music. Maybe it's just that my old Windows fear/presumption about GUI getting in the way of audio at work? I'm not yet completely sure. So I'd like to go even further in optimisation of DE and use OpenBox DE only which is a very fast and light Linux DE.

I'm craving to talk about Linux and audio experiences. Thank you Mr. Winter for joining us in this thread! Let's keep it alive and kicking! especially kicking.

Cheers!
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Old 12-12-2014, 05:12 AM   #91
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I really love Linux for my every day tasks. But for audio I still use my MBA.

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Personally, I think there aren't too many forums we can discuss Linux and audio stuff in, so why not here? d=
Good to know. I'd love to support the devs in any way I can. Unfortunately there is very low enthusiasm for audio on linux. (the exception proves the rule)

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Old 12-12-2014, 12:52 PM   #92
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LoL, coincidence?!

I use Arch (Antergos). The only out-of-the-box distro which doesn't look like the late 90s.
Maybe we can get in touch somwhere else or is offtopic okay here?

I can set up WineASIO in Reaper, but all I get is a Reaper crash when Jack runs. If its shut down, there is no crash, nad no inputs or outputs.

(Happens with internal soundcard and Avid MBox Mini3)

@Jack Winter: recorded my issue -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kRBdJDS5s (see error log in yt desciption)

Same with my Laptop and internal soundcard. The very same error log: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_6HrOLv49Y
If you use an archlinux derrative, I've packaged all you need in a repo. just add the archaudio-production repo, see: http://archaudio.org/packages/

Then you have linux-rt, linux-rt-lts, wine-rt, wineasio in binary forms for both 32 and 64b. You just need to do a few config changes and maybe make a script to start reaper from. You can find me on #archaudio at freenode if you need some hand holding.
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:01 PM   #93
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I probably mentioned that I use Debian Linux? Wheezy on my desktop and Jessie on my laptop. Since I'm really satisfied with Jessie, as soon as it gets released [stable] I'm going to install it on my main computer. It boots like within a few seconds... from the *cold start*! That is, nothing is cached! [like in Windows] :P I also use Xfce as my desktop currently. I think it's better to use some light desktop environment for music. Maybe it's just that my old Windows fear/presumption about GUI getting in the way of audio at work? I'm not yet completely sure. So I'd like to go even further in optimisation of DE and use OpenBox DE only which is a very fast and light Linux DE.
If you use debian, you ought to investigate the kxstudio repos! they fix a lof of distro audio fsckups, and contain a lot of other goodies, like bridges between alsa, pulseaudio, jack, etc.

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I'm craving to talk about Linux and audio experiences. Thank you Mr. Winter for joining us in this thread! Let's keep it alive and kicking! especially kicking.
Cool, I look at the forums every once in a while, am much more of a mailing list person and really hate wasting time reading in a forum I'm happy if I can offer some constructive help, but I really have little patience for all the detractors/trolls that always pop up B)
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Old 12-12-2014, 01:11 PM   #94
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While Linux is better in so many ways it suffers from the fact that only experts use it and none of those takes the time to create a working tutorial or some installer gui.

Try to find and install Linuxsampler on Ubuntu... or Wineasio...

Ubuntu's strange gui makes it even worse.

It's sad. I would switch immediatly when basic stuff would be easier.
I can only repeat try the kxstudio addon repos, will make audio much easier on ubuntu (where it's pretty fucked up for our purposes...)
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Old 12-13-2014, 04:23 AM   #95
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If you use an archlinux derrative, I've packaged all you need in a repo. just add the archaudio-production repo, see: http://archaudio.org/packages/

Then you have linux-rt, linux-rt-lts, wine-rt, wineasio in binary forms for both 32 and 64b. You just need to do a few config changes and maybe make a script to start reaper from. You can find me on #archaudio at freenode if you need some hand holding.
Ah great. I already found the archaudio page, but it seemed to be outdated, thats why I didn't thought about it anymore. Lets give it a try, I am sure we'll meet in IRC soon.

I installed it from the AUR. Shouldn't it be the same?

Is the error (see video and desciption for pastebin) because of missing rt?

from archoudio repo I get currupted PGP signatures. Is this normal?

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Old 12-13-2014, 05:09 AM   #96
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Ah great. I already found the archaudio page, but it seemed to be outdated, thats why I didn't thought about it anymore. Lets give it a try, I am sure we'll meet in IRC soon.

I installed it from the AUR. Shouldn't it be the same?

Is the error (see video and desciption for pastebin) because of missing rt?

from archoudio repo I get currupted PGP signatures. Is this normal?
Well it's kind of a shame. There is hardly anything in the archaudio repos, just the stuff I've packaged for being able to run reaper. The repo was created a few years ago and used to have packages, turned out that most people just use the AUR and build the packages themselves. I've packaged the stuff as building the kernel, wine, etc takes a long time. Wineasio is also a pain as the user has to register an account with steinberg and download the asio.h file themselves.

No one has bothered to change the software so that archaudio has signed repos, and I don't know how , but you need to configure it in pacman.conf like this:

[archaudio-production]
SigLevel = Never
Server = http://repos.archaudio.org/$repo/$arch

Or build it yourself from aur. It's the same buildscript so the result should be the same if you have all needed dependencies installed or build it in a chroot with the tools from the devtools package. Suppose building it yourself is a bit more secure as someone could hack the archaudio repo or man in the middle you when you use an unsigned repo...:S

I just watched the video for the 2:nd time, and I really can't read what the terminal output says, maybe it's because you didn't start the jack server? The wineasio driver appears to be found by reaper. Probably a lot easier to sort out the last few details in irc chat. Think you are most likely just missing a few small things.
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:02 AM   #97
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I just watched the video for the 2:nd time, and I really can't read what the terminal output says, maybe it's because you didn't start the jack server? The wineasio driver appears to be found by reaper. Probably a lot easier to sort out the last few details in irc chat. Think you are most likely just missing a few small things.
In the vid. decription of the first vid is a link to the pastebin from the reaper output.
I may show up in the irc in 2-3 hours. busy until this time.
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:59 AM   #98
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In the vid. decription of the first vid is a link to the pastebin from the reaper output.
I may show up in the irc in 2-3 hours. busy until this time.
Yeah found that now, and watched the video to the end

This shouldn't happen, but I still think IRC would be the easiest way to get this fixed.
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:04 AM   #99
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I can only repeat try the kxstudio addon repos, will make audio much easier on ubuntu (where it's pretty fucked up for our purposes...)
I added it to Ubuntu but in Synaptic Linuxsampler did not show up anyway - only the ugly gui for it.

Would that be of help with wineasio, too?

Since Ubuntu switched to the new gui I can't find anything anymore.
Will try mint.
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:26 AM   #100
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I added it to Ubuntu but in Synaptic Linuxsampler did not show up anyway - only the ugly gui for it.

Would that be of help with wineasio, too?

Since Ubuntu switched to the new gui I can't find anything anymore.
Will try mint.
The kxstudio repos ought to have linuxsampler, wineasio and even wine-rt (which is a bit fiddly to use, needs environment variables) but which can help reduce xruns. Don't think they have a realtime patched kernel though, which also helps reduce xruns
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Old 12-16-2014, 12:16 PM   #101
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Does anyone uses LePou Plugins with Wine?

Thanks to Jack Winter I can use Reaper with Wineasio now and installed all my regular plguins.

All are working very good, except the LePou Win 64 VST Amps. The 32 bit version neither. The LeCab works like it should.

Any ideas?
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Old 12-17-2014, 02:14 AM   #102
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Reaper crashes sometimes when using wineasio (I think it happens when there is an xrun, but I am not sure). WASAPI works fine. Anyone knows what might be the problem?
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Old 12-17-2014, 07:43 AM   #103
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Reaper crashes sometimes when using wineasio (I think it happens when there is an xrun, but I am not sure). WASAPI works fine. Anyone knows what might be the problem?
Hmm, don't see why that should happen. Can you export WINEDEBUG=all,+asio and run reaper from the command line and show me the trace when it crashes?
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Old 12-17-2014, 08:47 AM   #104
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I forgot before, but I'm using Arch linux x64/Reaper x64.

I just realized I worded that wrong, I'm sorry. Reaper does not crash as in "shutdown without making me save my work", but "just" becomes unusable, not being able to play anything (the cursor advances of a tiny bit and then stops moving) and freezing completly when I click on the device selection.

Unfortunately, WINEDEBUG=all,+asio produces 1.2GB of log by the time I'm able to add a track to the project, add a reatune and cause an xrun. Leaving "all" out, it produces just 100 lines of log which I guess aren't useful: http://pastebin.com/r7C40eKJ

It seems that the problem goes away if I add --timeout 20000 to the jackd commandline (I found this advice searching randomly on the renoise linux forum). I still have some xruns, but they don't seem to cause anything. I assume this is just my isolated problem/something to do with my particular installation since no one reported it yet?
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Old 12-18-2014, 02:55 AM   #105
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I forgot before, but I'm using Arch linux x64/Reaper x64.

I just realized I worded that wrong, I'm sorry. Reaper does not crash as in "shutdown without making me save my work", but "just" becomes unusable, not being able to play anything (the cursor advances of a tiny bit and then stops moving) and freezing completly when I click on the device selection.

Unfortunately, WINEDEBUG=all,+asio produces 1.2GB of log by the time I'm able to add a track to the project, add a reatune and cause an xrun. Leaving "all" out, it produces just 100 lines of log which I guess aren't useful: http://pastebin.com/r7C40eKJ

It seems that the problem goes away if I add --timeout 20000 to the jackd commandline (I found this advice searching randomly on the renoise linux forum). I still have some xruns, but they don't seem to cause anything. I assume this is just my isolated problem/something to do with my particular installation since no one reported it yet?
Sorry, I meant to type WINEDEBUG=-all,+asio, which would have left just the WineASIO trace. The reason that upping the JACK timeout helps, is because if a client takes too long to return from the callback it will kick out the client from the graph.

Regarding the unresponsiveness of reaper in this situation, it's because the ASIO callback no longer runs, but normally it should recover and you ought to be able to go to the prefs or click in the upper right corner and then restart the engine. I've seen varying levels of unresponsiveness in this situation, sometimes you can go immediately to the prefs, other times it might take some seconds. Not quite sure why this is. On the bright side I'm hacking on WineASIO again, and think I've improved the handling of this situation.

The real fix to the problem would be to track down why the ASIO callback hasn't returned in time. If you have a really old computer that might be the reason and in that case best to forget about running reaper in wine, but on a modern i5/i7 or similar this shouldn't happen any more. I suppose it could also be some plugin that you use that has some problem. That said I have the timeout set to 5000 myself which translates to 5 seconds wait before the client gets kicked. Don't think I've seen this happen for ages.

There are a few things you can do minimize the xruns. I'll explain how to do it on Archlinux specifically, but the methodology is the same on all linux distros.

First of all add the following to your /etc/pacman.conf:

[archaudio-production]
SigLevel = Never
Server = http://repos.archaudio.org/$repo/$arch

This will add a third party repo with binaries that will help (or build yourself from the AUR). Then install wine-rt, wineasio and finally linux-rt (and add it to your boot manager if it's not added automatically). If you use nvidia get nvidia-rt from the AUR.

An alternative to using the linux-rt kernel is to add the threadirqs kernel boot flag to the entry in the bootmanager, but linux-rt ought to be preferable as it makes low latencies a lot more reliable. Either action will result in the interrupt handlers being exposed to user land as threads, so that one can give priority to the soundcards interrupt handler.

Then find the interrupt handler of the soundcard, in my case it's either irq/18-snd_hdsp (multiface), or irq/54-snd_hda_ (onboard). When I use the Babyface on USB it's a bit more complicated, I have to use lsusb -v to find the USB hub it's connected to, and then use lspci -v to find the interrupt that it's using, and on some motherboards the interrupt might change between reboots depending on what is plugged in when booting. Also note that it's most likely best to keep the soundcard alone on that USB hub, and that one hub might work better than another.

Now you need to set the interrupt handlers priority to a high value like 98, there are several ways to do this, but personally I run:
chrt -f -p 98 `pgrep irq/18-snd_hdsp`
(note the funny looking quotes) in a script when I bring up the system, you could also do it from a script run from qjackctl, or try the rtirq script from AUR.

Then configure JACK to run realtime at priority 80.

And finally to enable the wine-rt patch and run reaper at elevated priorities use something similar to this to start reaper (my reaper is installed in the ~/reaper64 wineprefix):

WINE_RT=55 WINE_SRV_RT=70 WINEPREFIX=/home/jack/reaper64 chrt -f 53 wine ~/reaper64/drive_c/Program\ Files/REAPER\ \(x64\)/reaper.exe

You might need to add something like this to /etc/sudoers (use EDITOR=nano visudo) to not be bothered with sudo or be asked a password (jack is my username, and tor the hostname:

jack tor = (root) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/chrt

There is one option I turn off in reaper, Prefs->Audio->Buffering->Use native events (causes some xruns).

This might look complicated, but it's quite straightforward and a one time configuration effort. The result is that the soundcard interrupt will run with preference to most everything in the system, after that JACK's audio processing thread will run, which in turn will call the ASIO callback and reaper's audio processing threads. Finally all of reaper runs with preference to other processes which appears to make the GUI more snappy and avoids some xruns. Once all the audio processing is done, the rest of the system will run, like disk/net i/o, gpu, and all the normal processes.

This makes it possible for me to run huge mixes at higher latency and also to overdub while monitoring through FX at really low latencies, like 64-256 samples buffersize depending on what FX I use and the size of the project.

Note that it's not perfect (100% xrun free), though some xruns are caused by reaper's design, and only occur when starting/stopping the playback, etc.

But all in all, it works surprisingly well to run the reaper binary meant for another OS in linux. Whether performance is acceptable is something that everyone has to decide for themselves, but I for one am happy to be able to ditch windows, and have been mixing my band and overdubbing at low latency in 64b reaper for years.

Some closing remarks. Some hardware might cause problems, for instance on my laptop I need to blacklist/unload the wifi kernel module, otherwise I get quite a lot of xruns.

There are a few tools in the archaudio repo and AUR that can be used to trouble shoot the system. Tuna is a really nice utility that let's you play with changing priorities/affinity of the interrupts and other system config options. rt-tests contains a load of test utilities to test the linux-rt kernel (though they are equally useful on the vanilla kernel). For instance running "(sudo) cyclictest -m -n -Sp99 -i10 -d0" will tell you how well the kernel can schedule threads, on my machines i normally see max delays of under 50us (intel gpu), with nvidia it seems to clock in at about 1-1.5ms which of course will make it hard to run at very low latency.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:28 PM   #106
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Default Sooo many questions!

I've skimmed through a lot of this (there is a lot to read) wondering if the port has been abandoned or not. The last post I read was by a guy who said he was porting it but I'm unsure if he works for Cockos and was THE guy doing the official port or just someone with access to the source who tried for giggles and shits.

While I've set Reaper up under Wine many times my current rig makes it a pointless en-devour. In fact it results in several snake eating it's own tail catch 22's. To run my audio I need to run the 3.19rc3 kernel which then breaks my video drivers. To run my video drivers I can't have Wine installed at all period thanks to libopencl1. So basically I can have
video, no sound, no WINE
Wine, sound, no video
Wine, no sound, no video

The sad reality is while 15-20 years ago I'd never thought I would see so much software and games being developed for an "alt os" it's still pretty rough. The discussions on here about f&*king about with alsa, jack and various other tunings for latency are a far cry how simple most of this is on Win/Mac. Not to mention issues with things like drag and drop when running things in Wine. It all serves to take a broken experience and break it more to ignore the need for a native port.

If Reaper was native right now I could fudge things enough with the 3.16 kernel so my audio worked and video as well as long as I could cut out Wine. I'd not be able to access the audio mixer, but I'd be able to at least run Reaper and get some work done.
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Old 01-10-2015, 05:39 AM   #107
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I would be very happy to use Reaper on Linux. In fact I would greatly like to dedicate a Linux box for it.

But for me to make Reaper usable I would need to be able to load VSTs by "Native Instruments", "Sample Modeling" etc. These companies only support Windows and Mac. Hence Reaper would need to come with the appropriate Wine-lib stuff to be able to run the Windows (64 Bit) versions of these VSTs (including their GUI) and to allow doing the necessary licensing procedures for such commercial products.

(Muse Receptor shows that this in fact is possible !)

Of course Linux drivers for appropriate audio and Midi interfaces are necessary as well.

-Michael
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Old 01-10-2015, 08:36 AM   #108
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I would be very happy to use Reaper on Linux. In fact I would greatly like to dedicate a Linux box for it.

But for me to make Reaper usable I would need to be able to load VSTs by "Native Instruments", "Sample Modeling" etc. These companies only support Windows and Mac. Hence Reaper would need to come with the appropriate Wine-lib stuff to be able to run the Windows (64 Bit) versions of these VSTs (including their GUI) and to allow doing the necessary licensing procedures for such commercial products.

(Muse Receptor shows that this in fact is possible !)
It's quite an unfortunate event that NI is beginning to ask for new windows features not supported by wine. For instance one can no longer update to the latest kontakt version in wine S) But I suppose that might be fixed with updates to wine at some point.
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Old 01-10-2015, 08:42 AM   #109
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I would be very happy to use Reaper on Linux. In fact I would greatly like to dedicate a Linux box for it.
So why not dedicate a Windows box for it? right now you can get WIN10 technical preview for free and it's rock solid. Besides some misguided personal preference there is no benefit nor reason to choose anything over Windows to run Reaper, especially on a dedicated box.
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:02 AM   #110
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So why not dedicate a Windows box for it? right now you can get WIN10 technical preview for free and it's rock solid. Besides some misguided personal preference there is no benefit nor reason to choose anything over Windows to run Reaper, especially on a dedicated box.
So are you just working for Microsoft or what exactly makes you evangelizing People in the Linux threads?
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:11 AM   #111
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So are you just working for Microsoft or what exactly makes you evangelizing People in the Linux threads?
Feel free to provide any arguments to the contrary of what I wrote..

As I mentioned before in another thread I'm not pro or against anything, I use what I need to get a job done. For some things that's Linux, for others (such as running a DAW) not so much.

No need to work for Microsoft to know and understand that. Linux is not and will never be the ultimate end-all OS and neither will Windows (or any other OS).

round disc-square hole.. We've all been there in kinder-garten as far as I recall..
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:59 AM   #112
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For some things that's Linux, for others (such as running a DAW) not so much.
Well, time to change. I really miss Reaper since my switch to Linux - WineAsio is okay but not the perfect solution. Its not WinwAsio, its the Plugins with Wine. Often crappy performance and causing sudden xruns. And Ardour ... hm ... no. Since Bitwig and Tracktion are natively available I really hope that Plug-in and DAW devs will change their minds...but maybe in the end I'll die with a dual-boot systen
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Old 01-11-2015, 06:40 AM   #113
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Feel free to provide any arguments to the contrary of what I wrote..

As I mentioned before in another thread I'm not pro or against anything, I use what I need to get a job done. For some things that's Linux, for others (such as running a DAW) not so much.

No need to work for Microsoft to know and understand that. Linux is not and will never be the ultimate end-all OS and neither will Windows (or any other OS).

round disc-square hole.. We've all been there in kinder-garten as far as I recall..
Well if Linux doesn't work for you for some things that doesn't mean it doesn't work for others! You are the one making generalized statements here about what each OS is supposedly made for and for what It isn't, not me.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:42 AM   #114
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Well if Linux doesn't work for you for some things that doesn't mean it doesn't work for others! You are the one making generalized statements here about what each OS is supposedly made for and for what It isn't, not me.
Dunno, last I checked I was not generalising at all and posting what would be my opinion. From what I know and what many here admit to Linux is not the strongest party when it comes to Audio applications beyond playing single tracks. The given that there are and have been quite a number of attempts which all either stagnate, stall or fall flat more or less underwrites this.

15 years ago I would have agreed with the point that Linux would make a more suitable platform for DAW applications. Many of the advocates we see now got off the Windows bus around that time and, with all respect, are not aware (or considerate) of the many changes since then. Linux on the other hands has not really changed much in the same time beyond moving from shell based to GUI. I've more then once explained my opinion on this and am not going to repeat.

Bottom line is however that Linux has such a minute market share it's simply not worth anyone's time to go re-invent the wheel.
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Old 01-11-2015, 11:15 AM   #115
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Well, then we'll have to reinvent the wheel because depending upon one or two US software companies for anything OS related is not the way it can work for the whole world. Also, companies get bust in a capitalist society and no company is ever 100% safe from that.

I wonder what would you think, paulheu, if MS suddenly became bankrupt and they said "no more Windows"? With Linux it's totally different as it can survive even an apocalypse as out of thousands upon thousands of developers from all parts of this wonderful planet who contribute to Linux, some will definitely survive and continue working on it.

If by some providence more developers jumped on the Linux bandwagon, our computing world would be safe for the future and free of proprietary/capitalist clutches forever. That would be such a day... and I'm absolutely sure it will happen at some point, be it 10 years or whenever from now. Computer technology will change a lot during the next decade and that could be crucial for change in how people perceive operating systems. Well, even today already people perceive Windows much differently than 10 years ago as they learn how to use Android and all other OSes that come with smartphones, tablets, xxxBooks etc. They learn that Windows nor MacOS is the only OS there is. Now imagine 10 years from now... Windows and OS-X could be used only by a few percent of the people who paid big amounts of money for Windows/OS-X software. Who says that's not possible? Nothing lasts forever.

Having said that, I'm also tied to Windows due to audio software that I bought and I can't live without it. Some of it can't even work with anything newer than W7 and some of it are tided to XP forever, that's why I don't even think of upgrading to W8 or W10, and that's why I already have a dedicated box just for Windows/audio, dual booting with Linux though, all my computers have dual boot set up. Windows7 on my laptop gets used only to control my Konnekt 48 mixer and its configuration, and to run Reaper ReaMote when I need additional CPU DSP power, nothing else. Whole OS just to run that. :/ It's stupid, but the only solution to have the best of both worlds and I got W7 license for free with the laptop anyway... :P

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Old 01-11-2015, 12:46 PM   #116
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Well, then we'll have to reinvent the wheel because depending upon one or two US software companies for anything OS related is not the way it can work for the whole world.
For good or bad, that is how it is. In all fairness it's only one company as far as desktop OS goes.

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I wonder what would you think, paulheu, if MS suddenly became bankrupt and they said "no more Windows"?
You really want me to take this remark serious? In the extreme unlikely remotely off chance of that ever happening the obvious next in line would be Apple here by a long way. It's not even a question worth answering.

Quote:
With Linux it's totally different as it can survive even an apocalypse[
Your optimism is misplaced at best. Linux has no importance or influence in the everyday desktop/tablet/mobile world to speak of. It's a minute niche OS.

Quote:
If by some providence more developers jumped on the Linux bandwagon, our computing world would be safe for the future and free of proprietary/capitalist clutches forever.
Been hearing that for a good two decades now, has not happened and will not happen for the single reason there is no one outstanding option in Linux. There is a plethora of different distributions with sub-distributions and then some that try to cater to specific applications. There is no unified or even viable platform within the Linux world capable of sustaining the level of support and user base windows has.

There's probably more people running WIN10 TP now than there are people running Linux on their desktop.

Quote:
Computer technology will change a lot during the next decade and that could be crucial for change in how people perceive operating systems.
Nope, it will change yes, but it will take a lot more than 10 years.


Quote:
Well, even today already people perceive Windows much differently than 10 years ago as they learn how to use Android and all other OSes that come with smartphones, tablets, xxxBooks etc.
Not really, despite the OS their phone, tablet or whatever mobile device runs on the vast majority of people using desktop computers return home to their Windows PC every day.

Android and certainly not iOS are nowhere near allround and mature enough to even touch Windows as a drop in replacement and it will be quite a while before either of those does. It is far more likely Microsoft will be able to grab a much larger section of the mobile pie starting with WIN10.

All the while Linux will remain where it is. Strong in the server segment but hardly making a dent elsewhere.

Quote:
Who says that's not possible? Nothing lasts forever.
Nothing is impossible and while nothing lasts forever I highly doubt you and I will see this change in our lifetime. Good or bad the domination of Microsoft is so vast and deep I do not see this change for decades to come.

Quote:
Having said that, I'm also tied to Windows due to audio software that I bought and I can't live without it. Some of it can't even work with anything newer than W7 and some of it are tided to XP forever
If it runs on W7 it will run on 8 or 10. IF you have software depending on XP, frankly I pity you..
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:59 PM   #117
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For good or bad, that is how it is. In all fairness it's only one company as far as desktop OS goes.



You really want me to take this remark serious? In the extreme unlikely remotely off chance of that ever happening the obvious next in line would be Apple here by a long way. It's not even a question worth answering.



Your optimism is misplaced at best. Linux has no importance or influence in the everyday desktop/tablet/mobile world to speak of. It's a minute niche OS.



Been hearing that for a good two decades now, has not happened and will not happen for the single reason there is no one outstanding option in Linux. There is a plethora of different distributions with sub-distributions and then some that try to cater to specific applications. There is no unified or even viable platform within the Linux world capable of sustaining the level of support and user base windows has.

There's probably more people running WIN10 TP now than there are people running Linux on their desktop.



Nope, it will change yes, but it will take a lot more than 10 years.




Not really, despite the OS their phone, tablet or whatever mobile device runs on the vast majority of people using desktop computers return home to their Windows PC every day.

Android and certainly not iOS are nowhere near allround and mature enough to even touch Windows as a drop in replacement and it will be quite a while before either of those does. It is far more likely Microsoft will be able to grab a much larger section of the mobile pie starting with WIN10.

All the while Linux will remain where it is. Strong in the server segment but hardly making a dent elsewhere.



Nothing is impossible and while nothing lasts forever I highly doubt you and I will see this change in our lifetime. Good or bad the domination of Microsoft is so vast and deep I do not see this change for decades to come.



If it runs on W7 it will run on 8 or 10. IF you have software depending on XP, frankly I pity you..
Haha, now you overdid it a bit, you just blew your cover :-) it was fun though. Well played, I bought it for quite some time.
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Old 01-11-2015, 01:05 PM   #118
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Most people who buy personal computers just want to power them up and go, and they also want to have the benefit of being able to work with others, share files, and share basic tech knowledge when things go wrong. Most of them probably aren't net rats who would be spending lots of times on Linux forums trying to learn about distros and all that.

The OS worked fine when I tried it though. When I started browsing the web about "distros" it all became a relative jungle where every other guy was saying this distro was "best" and another one sucks and all that. The Linux world online is kinda like the Reaper dev forum here, kinda geeky.

The available app choices seemed way more limited. Let me ask... what are the "major" apps for Linux as relates to desktop publishing and video editing and 3d animation and all that other stuff? I use Vegas and iClone for example, what are comparable Linux apps to those?

Are there (just asking, dunno, don't shoot me) any major software companies supporting it the same way with such a comparatively limited exposure to the masses or is most of the software from Linux people and companies we've mostly never heard of? Imo, an OS is only as good as it's available software. See OS/2, great OS, didn't matter because (apparently) none (or maybe few) of the major vendors was coding to it.

I wouldn't really understand a commercial software developer ignoring the large Mac & PC market in favor of Linux so I assume some are doing both like Bitwig, dunno.

Thanks.
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Old 01-11-2015, 01:58 PM   #119
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Haha, now you overdid it a bit, you just blew your cover :-) it was fun though. Well played, I bought it for quite some time.
What cover? I'm just a guy who's been around for quite a while, who saw Linux stand up and heard the cries of how it was going to take over the world ever since.

Out here I just do not understand why anyone would want to jump through all sorts of hoops to get a DAW to work when all it needs is the install of a perfectly good and solid OS different from Linux.

Again, if you choose to use Linux that good for you and you have every right to do so. Trying to come in here and somehow make us understand there are genuine reasons why Linux would be a better choice as and OS to run DAW software is funny at best and has no merit at all. There is no, not one, reason why you should want to except for maybe the notion that the OS is free.

In the 25 odd years of it's existence it has not made any impact on the home PC, has hardly any presence in the enterprise desktop world and only has a good solid share of the (enterprise) server business (for good reason). Last year we've seen what the results are of the 'open source' and 'free'nature of code and applications and I'm fairly certain we'll see a few more in the year(s) to come. By 2020 I doubt there will be much left of the 'secure'and 'solid'reputation of Linux as several components will show to be as riddled with holes and security risks as Heartbleed and others have shown in the past year alone.

I work in the business and frankly, even as far as enterprise/server OS goes Windows is dominant by a wide margin (about 3:1) followed by Linux (mainly RedHat and a way behind SUSE and CentOS). The rest (Solaris/Unix etc..) pick up the scraps.

You can deny it all you want and keep your head in your comfy bubble, but it's the facts. That you are happy using Linux, again, all good and no reason to go anywhere I guess. But it's too much of a niche to be viable for any serious application development, including DAW..
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Old 01-11-2015, 02:46 PM   #120
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Are there (just asking, dunno, don't shoot me) any major software companies supporting it the same way with such a comparatively limited exposure to the masses or is most of the software from Linux people and companies we've mostly never heard of? Imo, an OS is only as good as it's available software. See OS/2, great OS, didn't matter because (apparently) none (or maybe few) of the major vendors was coding to it.
I **think** (don't quote me on this) Thefoundry (NUKE, MARI etc) supports linux on some products. I seem to remember Maya works on linux too (so maybe other autodesk products do too?).
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