Old 10-14-2017, 07:35 AM   #1
Edgemeal
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Default v5.60pre14 - October 13 2017

v5.60pre14 - October 13 2017
# Envelopes: do not allow automation items on tempo, mute, or FX bypass envelopes
# Envelopes: write automation into selected automation item if one is within a few seconds of automation writing time; otherwise create new automation item [p=1897271]
# Insert media: fix inserting media with hidden tracks [t=197227]

Full changelog - Latest pre-releases
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Old 10-14-2017, 07:47 AM   #2
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v5.60pre14 - October 13 2017
# Envelopes: do not allow automation items on tempo, mute, or FX bypass envelopes
May I ask why?
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:12 AM   #3
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May I ask why?
I was going to ask the same question.
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:17 AM   #4
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Just reducing complexity. Mute and bypass are on/off envelopes so there's no benefit from saving particular envelope shapes, writing automation into separate items, etc. Automation items were already disallowed on tempo envelopes because they are also a special case -- only square and linear shapes allowed, and other constraints.
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:28 AM   #5
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I can think of numerous applications for AI on mute envelopes where having a specific pattern of mutes is needed. Is there a technical reason this couldn't be kept?
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:21 AM   #6
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Just reducing complexity. Mute and bypass are on/off envelopes so there's no benefit from saving particular envelope shapes, writing automation into separate items, etc. Automation items were already disallowed on tempo envelopes because they are also a special case -- only square and linear shapes allowed, and other constraints.
Schwa, AIs are not used only for saving shapes. They are very useful for duplicating/repeating patterns. And for short "throws". You just make a short throw AI, and paste it wherever you need it. OK, instead of mute we can use volume envelope to have track muted in pattern. Also fx bypass can be replaced with dry/wet. But why not just leave it as it was? If it doesn't harm anything...
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:32 AM   #7
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Schwa, AIs are not used only for saving shapes. They are very useful for duplicating/repeating patterns. And for short "throws". You just make a short throw AI, and paste it wherever you need it. OK, instead of mute we can use volume envelope to have track muted in pattern. Also fx bypass can be replaced with dry/wet. But why not just leave it as it was? If it doesn't harm anything...
I agree with this. The only thing I'd add is that I often use volume envelopes and mute envelopes together. Using an AI on the volume envelope to achieve mute pattern function would remove the option to incorporate both mute and volume automation easily.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:38 AM   #8
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Schwa, AIs are not used only for saving shapes. They are very useful for duplicating/repeating patterns. And for short "throws". You just make a short throw AI, and paste it wherever you need it. OK, instead of mute we can use volume envelope to have track muted in pattern. Also fx bypass can be replaced with dry/wet. But why not just leave it as it was? If it doesn't harm anything...
agree. in the case of "Disable underlying envelope" and "show env in media lanes" they also prevent users from accidentally clicking an envelope when they intend to click the underlying media item.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:45 AM   #9
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guys

the options : "always create new automation items when writing automation" is awesome

but I found a little "buggy" behavior

If you use actions : "write current values for all/actively-writing..." there's no AI created

I think that it would be more consistent to create AI whti this action

Thanks a lot for your great work!
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:54 AM   #10
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Dear Cockos, if i may in this thread:

Now that AI is really becoming very powerful, can further development of it be pointed to making AI more treatable like other Items ?

I mean this;
Currently item actions like duplicate and split don't work on AI.
Why not ?
I don't see the logic of having a separate duplicate automation item action, besides the duplicate item action that is already available.

I think if many item actions (duplicate/split/trim etc etc) would also work on AI's, that would make AI even more incredibly powerful.

Warm Regards.
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:59 AM   #11
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making AI more treatable like other Items...Currently item actions like duplicate and split don't work on AI. Why not ?
I don't see the logic of having a separate duplicate automation item action, besides the duplicate item action that is already available.
mega agree. i have a shortcut command that i use with my mouse a LOT, it's "select item under mouse cursor" and "Delete selected X" and it doesn't work on AIs...i like it cuz it lets me just wave my mouse at stuff and delete it and i'm definitely missing AIs being treated like regular items
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:00 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
Dear Cockos, if i may in this thread:

Now that AI is really becoming very powerful, can further development of it be pointed to making AI more treatable like other Items ?

I mean this;
Currently item actions like duplicate and split don't work on AI.
Why not ?
I don't see the logic of having a separate duplicate automation item action, besides the duplicate item action that is already available.

I think if many item actions (duplicate/split/trim etc etc) would also work on AI's, that would make AI even more incredibly powerful.

Warm Regards.
+2014784
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:06 AM   #13
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mega agree. i have a shortcut command that i use with my mouse a LOT, it's "select item under mouse cursor" and "Delete selected X" and it doesn't work on AIs...i like it cuz it lets me just wave my mouse at stuff and delete it and i'm definitely missing AIs being treated like regular items
Exactly, the "select item under mouse" is so enormously powerful, i use it also alot, combined with other actions in one go, in a custom action.
And indeed, doesn't work on AI ��.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:07 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Just reducing complexity. Mute and bypass are on/off envelopes so there's no benefit from saving particular envelope shapes, writing automation into separate items, etc. Automation items were already disallowed on tempo envelopes because they are also a special case -- only square and linear shapes allowed, and other constraints.
I understand but instead of disabling this why not restrict it? Make Automation Items more simple in those cases. Do not allow certain things. My main concern here is FX bypass. That's something I automate quite a lot in my mixes and Automation Items are incredibly useful for this because they make everything a lot easier, just draw one AI and then copy/paste it where you need it.
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:52 AM   #15
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instead of disabling this why not restrict it? Make Automation Items more simple in those cases. Do not allow certain things.
^^What he said^^
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:58 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
I understand but instead of disabling this why not restrict it? Make Automation Items more simple in those cases. Do not allow certain things. My main concern here is FX bypass. That's something I automate quite a lot in my mixes and Automation Items are incredibly useful for this because they make everything a lot easier, just draw one AI and then copy/paste it where you need it.
+2545
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
I understand but instead of disabling this why not restrict it? Make Automation Items more simple in those cases. Do not allow certain things. My main concern here is FX bypass. That's something I automate quite a lot in my mixes and Automation Items are incredibly useful for this because they make everything a lot easier, just draw one AI and then copy/paste it where you need it.
This makes perfectly sense to me.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:24 PM   #18
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Agreed with above - FX bypass and mute should also have AIs. Let them be rounded to min-max if necessary, but yes, AIs should still be there.

For tempo envelope, I get it, no AIs necessary there, honestly.
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