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Old 08-08-2019, 06:28 AM   #1
danbb
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Default Win7 user thinking about moving to Linux...

What happens if I just keep using Windows 7? Will I be risking losing data or viruses etc.? I'd prefer not to have to learn a new OS if I can avoid it. If it's unavoidable though, what is the best linux distro for running Reaper and do they come with WINE and JACK etc. pre installed? I really hate Windows 10 and can't face the idea of caving into it, but linux seems complicated and I'm having trouble deciding what to do. I'm wondering if I should just disconnect my computers from the internet to reduce risk and just keep running Windows 7 indefinitely.
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:38 AM   #2
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I just upgraded my windows 7 to windows 10 for free. It ran the upgrade for an hour and was done. It works great.

I forget which link I used but here is one.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-...ws-10-upgrade/
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:00 AM   #3
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Thanks but as I said, I really don't like windows 10. Win 10 is not really an upgrade when your PC is not brand new, it just slows everything down, too much bloatware, privacy issues, Cortana spies on you and I just hate the aesthetic look of it. That's why I'm looking to Linux, or even better, seeing if I can keep Windows 7.
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:04 AM   #4
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I understand. I ran linux for many years and find it a major pita. I also ran
"shut up windows 10" to turn off a lot of things.

I'm really happy in windows 10 and have "start menu 10" replacing their menu system.
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:26 AM   #5
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I have heard shutup10 recommended before but it still doesnt solve the main issue i have with windows 10 which is the constant need for updates (Shutup10 recommends that you don't disable the win 10 updates). Using an older PC, i think windows 7 is my only option unless I'm willing to learn Linux or buy a Mac. I am ethically against windows 10 and everything it stands for, so I feel quite strongly about not migrating towards it.
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:35 AM   #6
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I have heard shutup10 recommended before but it still doesnt solve the main issue i have with windows 10 which is the constant need for updates (Shutup10 recommends that you don't disable the win 10 updates). Using an older PC, i think windows 7 is my only option unless I'm willing to learn Linux or buy a Mac. I am ethically against windows 10 and everything it stands for, so I feel quite strongly about not migrating towards it.
No worries. Use what works for you. Doing things in linux always took me forever. You can defer updates for 35 days at a time. At my age I prefer to be the water that goes around the rock and windows 10 is my best path atm. Good luck with all you do !

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-d...etting-updates
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:29 AM   #7
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Thanks but as I said, I really don't like windows 10. Win 10 is not really an upgrade when your PC is not brand new, it just slows everything down, too much bloatware, privacy issues, Cortana spies on you and I just hate the aesthetic look of it. That's why I'm looking to Linux, or even better, seeing if I can keep Windows 7.
You aren't alone in not liking Windows 10. Microsoft is all about data harvesting now and their OS is the the best tool ever devised for it.

That said, I setup a dual boot Window 7 and Xubuntu Linux DAW last year with the thinking that I would boot Win7 to do music and disconnect it from the internet. Once I setup REAPER in Linux it started becoming obvious that I didn't need Windows at all.

I have all my Windows plugins functioning in Linux, including Kontakt, Superior Drummer, Etc., but since I record mostly real guitar, bass, drums, and other real instruments, I'm not extremely dependent on virtual instruments. Almost all the music on my music page was done 100% in Linux and I don't miss Windows at all.
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:57 AM   #8
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If you are planning to continue to use Windows VST plugins and other Windows software then I recommend you continue to use Windows. It's not impossible to make Windows VST plugins work in Linux but the fact you seem scared to learn about a new OS hints that you might not like jumping through any hoops that are required.

Each OS has things about it that you need to learn. Current Linux distros are lot better at being user-friendly than they used to be, but you will still have to go through some growing pains once in a while.

If you are not using any Windows software in Linux then I think the biggest change you'll notice is how you install software. The idea of simply downloading an EXE and installing it is a foreign concept to Linux. You would generally install software through a software / package manager. It's a good system but you are not as free to mess around with different versions of software anytime you want without potentially making a conflict which requires resolving. There are other ways of installing software (for some things which are not available from a package manager) and some are easy to do, but you have to be careful about what you're doing so you don't cause conflicts in your system.

Another thing you might not be used to is the idea of running commands in Terminal sometimes. It's easier than ever because there's so much information you can easily search for on the Internet when you need to troubleshoot Linux. But the idea of typing commands like that scares some people off. A lot of times it's not even necessary to use Terminal, but since every distro is going to have Terminal (and the people giving troubleshooting advice want to make it general for as many people as possible), you'll find a lot of troubleshooting advice requires using Terminal.

Likewise if someone says you should build a particular software package (some software which is not in a package manager), well in that case you are going to have to be more comfortable using Terminal and doing any housekeeping on the system required. This will take more learning. It's not rocket science but some of it is esoteric when you're coming from Windows.

What might make the decision easier to assess is knowing what software you intend to run and if there are any substitutes you find acceptable available as native Linux software. Make a list of the things you find important and maybe we can help you decide if you can substitute the software.

Also your particular audio device might not be compatible in certain ways so it's good to mention that too. Lots of audio interfaces work fine in Linux but some of them don't have drivers and also a lot of them won't have the same control panels / mixers available to them (since that part is actually Windows software).

I'm running native Linux software only. I installed Jack just for the odd thing; I don't need it for Reaper. I don't have Wine installed. My day-to-day experience in Linux is virtually the same as anyone's in Windows.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:32 AM   #9
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Win10 is not as bad as it was. Cortana can now be fully disabled along with all the other bloat.

Having just done the upgrade after stubbornly refusing to do so for years, I have no regrets and I don't miss anything about 7. With Classic Shell and AeroGlass installed, the experience is almost identical, with some definite improvements.

It's definitely faster for me, but I've got a Ryzen. I did tests with LatencyMon to ensure it wasn't my imagination.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:34 AM   #10
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@JamesPeters 100% agree
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:15 AM   #11
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If you are planning to continue to use Windows VST plugins and other Windows software then I recommend you continue to use Windows. It's not impossible to make Windows VST plugins work in Linux but the fact you seem scared to learn about a new OS hints that you might not like jumping through any hoops that are required.
Regarding this, I only run a handful of Windows programs in Linux, mainly because I was able to use the very same applications in most cases. Firefox, Thunderbird, Stellarium, Hand Break, Google Earth, REAPER, Kodi, VLC, Etc., all have native Linux versions, so the only Windows apps I run are things like my own custom programmed stock ticker, programming editor, old NNTP news reader (Xnews) that I prefer to use for old school NNTP forums.

As far as VST plugins go, I'm using almost zero Windows audio plugins and have found free and paid native Linux audio plugins that work just as well as the Windows ones I have, but for VSTi instrument plugins, the selection of native Linux plugs is more sparse, so I use Kontakt, Arturia Minimoog, Toontrack's EZ-Keys, EZ-Drummer, and Superior Drummer plus a few others with zero issues.

I do also have a fully functional and set in stone version of Windows 7 as an alternate boot up option. I deactivated the network interface for the Win7 side, and did have to re-activate Windows 7 using the touch tone phone option, but now it will work till Hell freezes over without network connectivity or until I smoke it for the space it is taking up on my SSD.

Also, Windows 7 updates are failing on ALL my Windows 7 boxes because Microsoft is rolling out the same nagging they did several years ago with their heavy handed attempt to force you into Windows 10. I disabled all the mechanisms they were using then, and now the last time updates tried to install on my last Win7 machines, it fails and rolls back which is fine with me as one machine is permanently off the internet now, and the other final Win7 box will be converted to Xubuntu before the year is out.
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Old 08-08-2019, 12:38 PM   #12
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I really don't like windows 10.....
There are tweaks that should help. See the sticky thread in the "Live" forum.
-Michael
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:02 AM   #13
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Win10 is not as bad as it was. Cortana can now be fully disabled along with all the other bloat.

Having just done the upgrade after stubbornly refusing to do so for years, I have no regrets and I don't miss anything about 7. With Classic Shell and AeroGlass installed, the experience is almost identical, with some definite improvements.

It's definitely faster for me, but I've got a Ryzen. I did tests with LatencyMon to ensure it wasn't my imagination.
i have possibility to use different machines often, including latest intel and AMD machines and in my tests win10 wasn't faster than win7 on any machine, but on modern computers win10 works ok, i agree, while if you have old computer, like mine at home (Intel 2nd gen), it's better to stick with win7, less bugs, better driver compatibility, no annoying updates and other shite.



@danbb
I also hate, how win10 looks, awful design, actually it's not even a design, just a spit into customer's face, i wonder, how they designed it: "What, if we won't make beautiful functional interface and will make just some lazy mockup, will save a bunch of money, customers are stupid bovini, they will eat everything anyway".

You can try Manjaro distributive, from all distributives i tried, it's closest to Windows, pretty easy to use and if i remember correctly no need to use terminal in 99%, but i had some strange bugs, so i moved on to another distro, but maybe it will work ok for you.
Also very cool distributive is Ubuntu Studio, it comes with pre-installed audio/video/photo apps, Jack, Real-time core ,etc.
Now i use Debian+default interface(GNOME, i guess) from time to time, because it's very simple, fast, small and clean. but i wouldn't recommend it to someone as a first linux try.
I personally planning to stay on Windows 7 as my main OS for awhile, maybe few years, because alot off apps and VSTi i use don't work so good on linux as on Windows or don't work at all, atleast yet, than time will show what to do.
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:06 AM   #14
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i have possibility to use different machines often, including latest intel and AMD machines and in my tests win10 wasn't faster than win7 on any machine, but on modern computers win10 works ok, i agree, while if you have old computer, like mine at home (Intel 2nd gen), it's better to stick with win7, less bugs, better driver compatibility, no annoying updates and other shite.



@danbb
I also hate, how win10 looks, awful design, actually it's not even a design, just a spit into customer's face, i wonder, how they designed it: "What, if we won't make beautiful functional interface and will make just some lazy mockup, will save a bunch of money, customers are stupid bovini, they will eat everything anyway".

You can try Manjaro distributive, from all distributives i tried, it's closest to Windows, pretty easy to use and if i remember correctly no need to use terminal in 99%, but i had some strange bugs, so i moved on to another distro, but maybe it will work ok for you.
Also very cool distributive is Ubuntu Studio, it comes with pre-installed audio/video/photo apps, Jack, Real-time core ,etc.
Now i use Debian+default interface(GNOME, i guess) from time to time, because it's very simple, fast, small and clean. but i wouldn't recommend it to someone as a first linux try.
I personally planning to stay on Windows 7 as my main OS for awhile, maybe few years, than time will show what to do.
I guarantee you this is how it was designed.

1. Management comes in and says "We have to support cell phones in windows 8".
2. Devs "It will require an entire rewrite of the gui engine and take a few years.
3. You have 3 months.
4. Devs "fuck it"
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:30 AM   #15
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You can try Manjaro distributive, from all distributives i tried, it's closest to Windows, pretty easy to use and if i remember correctly no need to use terminal in 99%, but i had some strange bugs, so i moved on to another distro, but maybe it will work ok for you.
I have never had to compile anything on my Xubuntu, and do almost everything using a GUI interface. The only stuff I ever do in a terminal is usually security related, like checking if microcode is being updated, or what vulnerabilities have been addressed, but for every day use, I never get into a terminal even though I am quite comfortable using one stemming back to my days as an expert in a command prompt world with Amiga and DOS based machines.

One of the lightest desktops is xfce, and it works great on older hardware which is why I initially chose it for a MythTV server in a back room. Later when I started trying different flavors of Linux on my DAW, I found that the lightweight xfce desktop in Xubuntu was my favorite there as well, after trying Manjaro, Mint, MX Linux, Ubuntu, AV Linux, and some others.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:04 AM   #16
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I have never had to compile anything on my Xubuntu,
That reminds me: I built the latest update to SWS yesterday. Justin made some fixes in it to go along with some changes in the latest Reaper dev builds. Let me know if you want the compiled files.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:38 AM   #17
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That reminds me: I built the latest update to SWS yesterday. Justin made some fixes in it to go along with some changes in the latest Reaper dev builds. Let me know if you want the compiled files.
Thanks for the offer James, but I have never used anything that hooks itself into REAPER unless it comes straight from Cockos. I've had multiple bad experiences with other products when there were too many 3rd party cooks in the kitchen, and since I record pretty straight forward just like using rolls of old school 1" tape, I don't find myself really needing more than the basic tool set that a stock REAPER offers for multi-track recording of performances and then playing them back.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:45 AM   #18
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heh, i find myself comfortable with only REAPER too , no SWS, no ReaPack or anything else, no scripts, just nude REAPER (the only exception is my own tiny extension)
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:05 PM   #19
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What happens if I just keep using Windows 7? Will I be risking losing data or viruses etc.? I'd prefer not to have to learn a new OS if I can avoid it. If it's unavoidable though, what is the best linux distro for running Reaper and do they come with WINE and JACK etc. pre installed? I really hate Windows 10 and can't face the idea of caving into it, but linux seems complicated and I'm having trouble deciding what to do. I'm wondering if I should just disconnect my computers from the internet to reduce risk and just keep running Windows 7 indefinitely.
Microsoft will take your money if you want security updates after this year, for up to 3 years at a higher fee for each consecutive year. After that, or without the extended support starting Jan 1st 2020, yes - the only way to be safe is to stay disconnected. So you'll never want another plugin? Don't cave. There was a time Reaper seemed complicated to you, I bet. Or routing sends or setting up your interface or using a compressor or playing an instrument.

The walled gardens of the corporate world are betting that you're too insecure or lazy or incompetent to declare your independence from them.
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Old 08-10-2019, 05:48 AM   #20
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Microsoft will take your money if you want security updates after this year, for up to 3 years at a higher fee for each consecutive year. After that, or without the extended support starting Jan 1st 2020, yes - the only way to be safe is to stay disconnected. So you'll never want another plugin? Don't cave. There was a time Reaper seemed complicated to you, I bet. Or routing sends or setting up your interface or using a compressor or playing an instrument.

The walled gardens of the corporate world are betting that you're too insecure or lazy or incompetent to declare your independence from them.
The threat of no updates is just scaremongering at this point; just propaganda to make people cave in to Windows 10. The security in Windows 7 has always been rubbish, so I will be exposed to the same risk as I have since I started using Win7 in 2010. Decent up-to-date anti-virus will catch the worst offenders. I've often turned off updates on Windows 7 for months at a time without suffering any major effects.

That said, I'm typing this from a fresh install of Linux Lite on my laptop to see if I can get used to it and get Reaper working on here. I think my main hurdle will be getting all my plugins to work. If all goes well on my laptop, I will bite the bullet and go for it on my main desktop.
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Old 08-10-2019, 06:17 AM   #21
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Since watching this i don't feel so bad anymore.
Thanks for the replies guys.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:16 AM   #22
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Since watching this i don't feel so bad anymore.
Thanks for the replies guys.
His 60 days to get used to Linux is about right. For me, most stuff worked right away. A few things took more tweaking, but now a little more than a year since setting up a dual boot Win7/Xubuntu DAW, with the default set to load Linux, when I boot Win7 it feels like the foreign OS to me.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:14 PM   #23
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What happens if I just keep using Windows 7? Will I be risking losing data or viruses etc.? I'd prefer not to have to learn a new OS if I can avoid it. If it's unavoidable though, what is the best linux distro for running Reaper and do they come with WINE and JACK etc. pre installed? I really hate Windows 10 and can't face the idea of caving into it, but linux seems complicated and I'm having trouble deciding what to do. I'm wondering if I should just disconnect my computers from the internet to reduce risk and just keep running Windows 7 indefinitely.
I'd check some long-running 3rd party security softwares,
like Spybot Search & Destroy, to see if they will maintain support.
Then get good at cloning your system, and hopefully you can use a software collection that is easy to reinstall if darkness should fall.
In the long run, having win 7 and a few different linux setups
will enable some experimentation, without fear of catastrophy.
Malware is not omnipresent, and for windows, a network cable
is easy to disconnect. and you can refuse visiting dodgy websites,
only going online to register a must-have product.

Windows ten is like a grenade with the pin pulled
being passed around at a holiday bonfire...
"Who is feeling lucky tonight?"
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Old 08-11-2019, 03:49 AM   #24
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Is Linux immune to the CPU blabla doors and what have we? might as well pull the plug and turn off the phone, move to the forrest and if you go Linux today, is not your past whole life on big brothers/"WATSON's brain anyway already?
I think Linux for music is just waiting for more people to add to the stats so companies see the ohh-lalaah, or something.
Not as much meh's as it used to be, even SmajjL can manage with the wealth of helpfull Linus peoples.
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:30 AM   #25
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Is Linux immune to the CPU blabla doors and what have we? might as well pull the plug and turn off the phone, move to the forrest and if you go Linux today, is not your past whole life on big brothers/"WATSON's brain anyway already?
I think Linux for music is just waiting for more people to add to the stats so companies see the ohh-lalaah, or something.
Not as much meh's as it used to be, even SmajjL can manage with the wealth of helpfull Linus peoples.
One of the biggest reasons I switched to Linux was for the CPU microcode updates which patch for things like the Spectre and Meltdown chip level exploits. Windows 7 does NOT do any microcode updating where Windows 10 does, but I don't want to run Windows 10, so I jumped to Linux.

Microcode must be loaded BEFORE the OS even begins to boot and is not written permanently to your CPU, but is rather installed to your computer's RAM, then the CPU is pointed to look for it there, rather than the microcode that is static and on the CPU, so it must be loaded every time, just before the OS begins to boot.

In Linux, to see what vulnerabilities have or have not been mitigated, issue the following command in a terminal window.

grep . /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:18 AM   #26
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Thanks Glennbo! Time for a dualboot thingie again then, and hope Windows will turn out to be more a Gameing OS and my gameing activity will be all they get!
Although I hear some stuff has happened in that area also on Linux.
Not as hardcore bitter as some, but I actually love Linux enviroment and the community, why not? - so it shall be done!
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:41 PM   #27
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Thanks Glennbo! Time for a dualboot thingie again then, and hope Windows will turn out to be more a Gameing OS and my gameing activity will be all they get!
Although I hear some stuff has happened in that area also on Linux.
Not as hardcore bitter as some, but I actually love Linux enviroment and the community, why not? - so it shall be done!
Funny you should say that. The ONLY thing I boot Windows 7 for at this point is a handful of EA racing games on Steam that my kid set me up with for father's day. They might work in Linux, but I haven't setup Steam in Xubuntu to try it yet. Not really a gamer.

I figure at some point I'll need some storage space and will end up nuking the whole 120 GB Win7 side, but for now I'm leaving it just for Steam. Everything involving REAPER I do in Linux.
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Old 08-11-2019, 03:51 PM   #28
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Thanks Glennbo! Time for a dualboot thingie again then, and hope Windows will turn out to be more a Gameing OS and my gameing activity will be all they get!
Although I hear some stuff has happened in that area also on Linux.
Not as hardcore bitter as some, but I actually love Linux enviroment and the community, why not? - so it shall be done!
I didn't try myself, but many games seem to work on linux via Wine, On Youtube you can find videos, where people launch games like DOOM (2016) on Ubuntu. Also SteamOS slowly evolving..this will give a big push for gaming on linux.

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Old 08-13-2019, 06:32 PM   #29
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In Linux, to see what vulnerabilities have or have not been mitigated, issue the following command in a terminal window.

grep . /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/*

So, Linux Mint 19.2 Tina I get this.


/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/l1tf:Mitigation: PTE Inversion
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds:Mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown:Mitigation: PTI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spec_store_bypass:Mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v1:Mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2:Mitigation: Full generic retpoline, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: conditional, RSB filling


Good enough or?
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:31 PM   #30
Glennbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
So, Linux Mint 19.2 Tina I get this.


/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/l1tf:Mitigation: PTE Inversion
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds:Mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/meltdown:Mitigation: PTI
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spec_store_bypass:Mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl and seccomp
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v1:Mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer sanitization
/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/spectre_v2:Mitigation: Full generic retpoline, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW, STIBP: conditional, RSB filling


Good enough or?
This one caught my eye:

/sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/mds:Mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable

According to this site it looks like you have a vulberability with SMT, but it also looks like Linux is clearing the CPU buffers as a backdoor fix for it.

https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/late...-vuln/mds.html

Edit: Also note that pretty much none of those mitigations would be happening with Windows 7.
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Last edited by Glennbo; 08-13-2019 at 08:44 PM.
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