Old 04-27-2012, 09:41 PM   #41
Jwcorey
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Reaper and Protools(RIP) are 64 bit floating point mix engines. This does in fact sound better than the older 32 bit mixers like Garageband and Logic and all the rest. No difference just passing line level at unity gain but pretty clear when doing a full mix with processing. (I added rip after Protools because they just sunk their flagship with corporate shenanigans. There are many threads around here from PT refugees switching to Reaper.)
Seems to explain why my friend said Reaper would sound better.
Jwcorey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 02:28 PM   #42
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,986
Default

Don't overlook the chatroom as an extremely fast learning tool!
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 11:43 PM   #43
sonnie
Human being with feelings
 
sonnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 642
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Reaper and Protools(RIP) are 64 bit floating point mix engines. This does in fact sound better than the older 32 bit mixers like Garageband and Logic and all the rest.
Where do you get your knowledge about it?
Reaper is 64 Bits, like Studio One. Pro Tools (10) is the first PT with 32 bits float. Former PTs has 24 or 16 bits - and they made hits with it.
The only difference between 32 and 64 bits is the bigger headroom you surely can't hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
From the perspective of an experienced engineer, Logic and especially Garageband are very cumbersome. I have no doubt there's something intuitive from a layman's perspective but I still can't recommend those in good faith.
OMG, where did you heard this? GB is not very flexible, but you can do good stuff with it. Logic is more professional, and not more worse than any other DAW.

Dont get me wrong, I like Reaper for its well done concept. But I use several DAWs: PT10 native and HDX, S1v2Pro, Logic 9 and of course Reaper. They all have pros and cons, and Reaper is far from beeing the over-DAW - like any other.
sonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2012, 09:29 AM   #44
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,775
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnie View Post
Where do you get your knowledge about it?
Reaper is 64 Bits, like Studio One. Pro Tools (10) is the first PT with 32 bits float. Former PTs has 24 or 16 bits - and they made hits with it.
The only difference between 32 and 64 bits is the bigger headroom you surely can't hear it.
The manual and specification publications. The older Protools HD systems before 9 were 48bit fixed point. Still more headroom than anything else at the time and why that system sounded the best. Turn a source signal down to the half way point (actual not perceived). Lets say it was a 24 bit recording. Want to preserve the lower 12 bits (of course you do)? You need extended headroom in the mix engine to handle this. This happens all the time in multitrack mixing (not every track is turned up all the way when working with raw recorded tracks). There's never been any claim of super human hearing involved in any of this. Just nuts and bolts stuff to deal with the math and keep precision. The arguments about hearing above 24k and all that are strawman arguments. Audio quality goes down as the volume is lowered with PCM digital. That's just the physics of the system. (Learn this bit of digital 101 and you will be surprised at how well ALL of this gear can work.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnie View Post
OMG, where did you heard this? GB is not very flexible, but you can do good stuff with it. Logic is more professional, and not more worse than any other DAW.

Dont get me wrong, I like Reaper for its well done concept. But I use several DAWs: PT10 native and HDX, S1v2Pro, Logic 9 and of course Reaper. They all have pros and cons, and Reaper is far from beeing the over-DAW - like any other.
This is my opinion from trying it out. That was a specific example of my first time behind GB. I shook all these DAW's down about a year and a half ago when I was looking for new options and just to try keeping up with new stuff and not hiding in a hole. Logic Audio Hell is still the worst most unprofessional DAW I've ever tried IMHO. There must be some curious learning curve / workflow thing going on between Protools users and Logic users because some of them say the same things about Protools. DP has been dead ever since OSX (DP3 was the perfect app. I recorded 1000's of shows and not one single error of any kind. They never figured out how to write code for OSX. It killed them.) Studio One just crashes if you try doing anything needing horsepower - looked promising but not ready for prime time yet. Ableton has it's nitch with the triggering samples thing. Don't try using it as a DAW if you really need to mix though. This was the most unstable of the lot. Get used to this: "Ableton Live has suddenly quit." The Protools LN and native systems are watered down to hit a lower price point. But then their HD system is now broken as well IMO since they fired all their programmers. I'm just waiting for enough downtime to start relearning my editing chops in Reaper. (Muscle memory for the computer keyboard just like the guitar. Who would have thought...)

Lots of opinions... Have fun with that. I get them from using this stuff, not reading about it somewhere.

Some of these portable device apps (beat makers for the iPad and so on) that are coming on the scene are pretty cool to be honest. Use stuff that's convenient and gets the job done. You still need to choose tools carefully for certain jobs. If preserving nuanced audiophile recordings is important then you need to make sure the tool you use is full precision and doesn't throw away anything for convenience. If Ableton has the perfect features for your thing and sounds good enough then don't make things more complicated because the next guys project doesn't work well with it. The good news is there are both convenient and quality choices these days.

Back to Garageband... I got really sick of clients that home record bringing in tracks that ended up getting reduced to 16 bit or worse. I like to record studio projects at 88.2k or 96k so that's a problem for Garageband. Then trying to explain how to export the tracks and at least keep them 24 bit... Done with that! I recommend Reaper. It's simple, intuitive and solid. (Just to be clear, it's the GB part I'm sick of, not the home recording part. I encourage this.)

Last edited by serr; 04-29-2012 at 01:46 PM.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 03:11 PM   #45
smitty
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2
Default Smitty

I have been a Mac user for about 8 years using garageband. I am also a photographer. I could hardly wait for the new iMac to hit the market in Dec. 2012. I had to purchase an HP Laptop to carry me through because my old Mac was not supported anymore. On Dec4,2012. I purchased me new iMac. Because I work with Photography, Audio and video. It took some time to figure out the new OSX and all my new up grades. What I found with the iMac there was a problem in the OSX. I had no control over my input mic. It would not lower the input for the mic. After much conferences over the phone I told them this had to be takin in to a tech to look at. The Tech looked at it and sent the problem to engineering. He told me to go home and wait for an update. There is nothing more he could do because it was a universal problem in Mountain Lion. So I could not record. After a couple of months of waiting there was no update and I told them they have to take the iMac back. it did not work. I was out of business for over 3 months and stuck with adobe CS6 and other programs that I updated. All my music recording from Garageband can't be opened because of Macs incompatability issues. On March 15, 2013 I purchased a Mac mini from Best Buy hoping that an update had come for the audio problem. The Mac mini had the same engineering problem as the iMac and no update had come. I had to return it. In April I purchased another Mac mini I told the Geek Squad to run all updates before they gave it to me. I watched them do it. The 2nd Mac mini had the exact same problem as the first 2. I have video recorded the problem at this point for my records. Very simply the recording imput knob is broken and engineering has not fixed it.
I am now operating with a Toshiba Laptop because I can't find a Mac that I can record with. I am looking at Reaper. I am exhausted from learning CS6,OSX Mountain Lion,Logic Pro9 that was returned, imovie,ect. all of which I can not use. Photography has been switched to Windows 8 but I am not happy with my screen calibrations at this point. Reaper does not seem to read the Garageband formats so I am stuck in Apples little box that goes nowhere. Any input will help to clear my mind on this issue. Apple has basically put me out of business. I need some answers. Thanks
smitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 04:54 PM   #46
smitty
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpion View Post
What led me to Reaper was preempting the semi-inevitable fuck up of Logic Pro by Apple, based in part on the Final Cut Pro X debacle. The fact that a few months ago they caught wind of the pro audio community talking of Logic X probably being a "Garageband Pro", and issued a statement denying that they were taking Logic in this direction smacked of a kind of desperation that they'd already got quite far into making Logic into a pro-sumer version of Garageband and are now having to backpedal to create something which will be satisfactory.

On top of that, the whole "App Store only" thing is ridiculous, Logic itself uses way too much CPU, is buggy as hell with random crashes and hangs (and yet the bugs which are most annoying and have been there for years are ignored in favour of less critical updates), and I can't honestly see them being able (or even bothered) to keep themselves up there as one of the pro choices for audio work. Apple are making far too much money from the consumer market to give their time to develop a pro app correctly any more. They've already managed to ruin their reputation in the film industry which they're now trying to scrape back with some updates that came out last night.

Just to let everyone know I'm not an Apple-basher for no reason, I'm a certified Mac technician who looks after just under 500 Macs in a college. Recently Apple decided to get rid of the K12 licencing, meaning that higher education sites can no longer get the same value for buying multiple licences - to put it in perspective, we can now buy 16 copies for the same price we used to be able to get 500. We won't be upgrading Logic anymore and we're looking for alternatives; this means the kids who do the music tech courses won't be learning on Logic, meaning they won't be buying Logic when they leave college. A downward spiral for Logic in the eyes of young audio enthusiasts as far as I'm concerned, especially if this happens across the entire education establishment. Maybe I'm wrong about that due to the lower price of it in the App Store; time will tell.

My experience with dealing with how Apple address issues has, over the last few years, peaked and troughed since they introduced the Intel processors. Currently I have almost entirely lost faith in them, although obviously I have to hope that their success in business continues so my job continues to prosper.

As a personal user of Apple stuff, for the first time in my life I'd have no qualms at all about shifting to Windows now that Logic is a distant memory thanks to Reaper, and Lion is the single worst operating system I've ever used in my life (which is making me hold back on wanting to get a new Mac in future, since the OS is so badly broken.)

So the problem for me wasn't so much with "Logic the software" which is undeniably a very good, albeit flawed bit of software, but more with "Logic, the potential for major future upset (and unsolved current problems)". This is what got me looking for alternatives, which led me to Reaper. Now I'm used to it, Reaper does everything Logic does and more (excepting possibly some really top-end MIDI stuff which Logic can do better than any other DAW I've come across, but which I've come to do without). I couldn't be happier with my choice.

Blimey, sorry; that turned into quite a rant. I'd barely got started too...
Thank you for this review. At least I know I am not the only one having problems with Apple. Mountain Lion is defective to to point they have put me out of business. It is quirky and the input mic does not work I have returned 3 Macs
smitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 09:20 AM   #47
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,775
Default

This just doesn't add up.

You're only using Garageband and the built-in mic in your Mac. The simplest, most watered down 'aimed at cursory consumer use' audio system. (Which is totally fine if it meets your needs - not trying to suggest simple tools don't do the job sometimes.)

If this is all you need to do your workflow, what on Earth are you doing buying new and expensive Macs for such light use? And to the point it's putting you out of business?!?!

I'm as big a Mac fanboy as they come but even I recommend cheap Windows systems to people sometimes. This would be one of those times. Or better, a used Mac would probably be just the thing.

I wonder if Apple is going to stay in the pro computer market too. I'm still running 10.6 myself as well (been threatening to mess with 10.8 for a bit but haven't found the time or motivation). We'll see if the rumors of new Pro machines this year are true won't we...

Haha, all the 10.8 threads... "10.8 broke core audio" "10.8 added new features to core audio" "did not" "did too" ...
Guess I'll have to find out myself one of these days.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2013, 07:42 PM   #48
rdesanti
Human being with feelings
 
rdesanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lake Havasu City, Arizona
Posts: 121
Default GB vs Reaper

Jedi said it right. To learn any DAW you 1st have to learn it! Garage Band is an experiment with audio. Not saying it's not useful, just a BB gun versus a REAL gun. Once I understood Reaper, all the other DAW's came EASY! Including other DAW's like Audacity (free by the way). But I didn't get Audacity UNTIL I learned the Reaper! Once I understood how to record and edit audio in Reaper, was I able to more fully understand how digital audio worked and how the software (any DAW) functioned. Garage band is fun and easy, but it's not a real DAW. Don't get me wrong I STILL use it for my ZEN projects, cuz they're loops are a blast to use. By the way a real DAW doesn't have a loop library. I'm still learning Reaper and DAW in general, especially the mastering aspects and all the FX processors and the theory behind them. I just wanted to insert my .02 cents worth here. You should try Reaper and also join the forums here and the stash of information the many users here have to enlighten and educate your understanding of DAW software and how to customize it's features. ENJOY!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Garabeband is in no way intended to be/replace a full-function DAW.
REAPER is one of the most powerful platforms on the market, at
the lowest price of any "serious DAW" YES - READ THE MANUAL!!!!

I won't go so far as to say GB is a "toy" - but it does what
it does. REAPER is a truly world-class, professional
working environment that is worlds beyond what GB was intended
to be.

And yes, I have GB on my MacBook and have used it.

They are just VASTLY different beasts. BB gun compared to a Howitzer.

Jedi
rdesanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 08:56 AM   #49
Terry Gray
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3
Default GB vs Reaper

I joined the Reaper forum this morning, looking for answers to an issue with the SWS extensions pack and found this thread. Fascinating.

My first Mac was a 512-Enhanced bought in 1987 and I have owned or had unlimited access to a Mac desktop of some kind ever since (currently a slightly dead G5), so I am a big fan of the fruit machines. I've also owned a series of Windows laptops over the last 10 or so years, mainly because there weren't the kinds of (affordable) audio tools I needed available for the Mac. My laptop is used for tuning PA systems and recording stereo board mixes of live shows. For the latter, I used Cubase LE, which came bundled with a Tascam USB interface. The G5 has been used for live, on location, multi-track recording using DP4.6. Specifically, I did the tracking and turned the raw material over to the client for mixing and mastering. The G5 is a bit cumbersome to haul around for general use though, and is also getting a little long in the tooth.

Last June I picked a 13" MacBook Pro when the issues (hardware, not software) with my last PC finally went from irritating to infuriating. When I discovered that neither DP4.6 nor Cubase LE were compatible with OSX Lion, I went looking for an affordable multi-track recording program. After trying a few apps that initially looked promising but didn't pan out, I came across Reaper.

Reaper offers everything I want in a multi-track recording package and then some. I haven't yet gone beyond the very basics of what I want from it - tracking, mixing to stereo and rendering to a usable file - but that will be rectified very shortly.

Sometimes though, Reaper is the wrong tool for the job. If all I need is a simple record of an event for a client, using Reaper is kind of like swatting flies with a sledgehammer - it gets the job done but is pretty cumbersome to use. For my purposes, this is where GB comes in. It allows me to quickly setup a recoding track and, when I'm done, provide the client a finished file in a format they can use.

I don't think the relationship between them is BB-gun (or .22) to howitzer; it's more like a snack to a gourmet meal.

Having read through this entire thread, the one thing I have gleaned is that, given a little time and effort on my part, I can probably setup Reaper to be both a quick bite and the full meal deal.
__________________
2012 MacBookPro 13", 2.9GHz i7, 8GB; M-Audio ProFire 2626; Edirol UA25; Yamaha 01V96+MY8AT. Setup for multi-track recording of live shows.
Terry Gray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #50
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago sometimes
Posts: 11,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Gray View Post
Sometimes though, Reaper is the wrong tool for the job. If all I need is a simple record of an event for a client, using Reaper is kind of like swatting flies with a sledgehammer - it gets the job done but is pretty cumbersome to use. For my purposes, this is where GB comes in. It allows me to quickly setup a recoding track and, when I'm done, provide the client a finished file in a format they can use.
I wonder why you think doing a quick recording would be cumbersome?
__________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/msorenson
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 08:21 PM   #51
Terry Gray
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3
Default Quick recordings

msore: Mostly because I have not had time to dig into all of Reaper's features and functions yet. The more I read in the manual and these posts, the more it seems Reaper will be THE software I use for everything in the long run. If all I wanted though was a way to record board mixes, I would not need a full-fledged DAW.
__________________
2012 MacBookPro 13", 2.9GHz i7, 8GB; M-Audio ProFire 2626; Edirol UA25; Yamaha 01V96+MY8AT. Setup for multi-track recording of live shows.
Terry Gray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2013, 08:09 AM   #52
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago sometimes
Posts: 11,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Gray View Post
msore: Mostly because I have not had time to dig into all of Reaper's features and functions yet. The more I read in the manual and these posts, the more it seems Reaper will be THE software I use for everything in the long run. If all I wanted though was a way to record board mixes, I would not need a full-fledged DAW.
In this case, as in most cases concerning LEARNING these days, there is a serious problem with writing and materials. That is - pedagogy.

Ideal would be to present a novice with a FEW things they need to get going, and do simple tasks (like recording through a mic). The novice can learn, study and master one functional set of skills fairly easy if they are not distracted by the tons of other features out there in the jungle. Then based on what they learned, another small and functional set can be presented. And so on.

This pedagogical step-wise approach is dying, unfortunately. Dying as companies increasing refuse to hire good writers and trainers to create materials, and it is also dying as more young users (many of whom don't like to read) dive in on their own to learn in relatively unstructured ways.

You'll get there. Then you will wonder what all your fussing was about back at the beginning! G'luck.
__________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/msorenson
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2013, 03:28 PM   #53
vdubreeze
Human being with feelings
 
vdubreeze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 1,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post
I have been a Mac user for about 8 years using garageband. I am also a photographer. I could hardly wait for the new iMac to hit the market in Dec. 2012. I had to purchase an HP Laptop to carry me through because my old Mac was not supported anymore. On Dec4,2012. I purchased me new iMac. Because I work with Photography, Audio and video. It took some time to figure out the new OSX and all my new up grades. What I found with the iMac there was a problem in the OSX. I had no control over my input mic. It would not lower the input for the mic. After much conferences over the phone I told them this had to be takin in to a tech to look at. The Tech looked at it and sent the problem to engineering. He told me to go home and wait for an update. There is nothing more he could do because it was a universal problem in Mountain Lion. So I could not record. After a couple of months of waiting there was no update and I told them they have to take the iMac back. it did not work. I was out of business for over 3 months and stuck with adobe CS6 and other programs that I updated. All my music recording from Garageband can't be opened because of Macs incompatability issues. On March 15, 2013 I purchased a Mac mini from Best Buy hoping that an update had come for the audio problem. The Mac mini had the same engineering problem as the iMac and no update had come. I had to return it. In April I purchased another Mac mini I told the Geek Squad to run all updates before they gave it to me. I watched them do it. The 2nd Mac mini had the exact same problem as the first 2. I have video recorded the problem at this point for my records. Very simply the recording imput knob is broken and engineering has not fixed it.
I am now operating with a Toshiba Laptop because I can't find a Mac that I can record with. I am looking at Reaper. I am exhausted from learning CS6,OSX Mountain Lion,Logic Pro9 that was returned, imovie,ect. all of which I can not use. Photography has been switched to Windows 8 but I am not happy with my screen calibrations at this point. Reaper does not seem to read the Garageband formats so I am stuck in Apples little box that goes nowhere. Any input will help to clear my mind on this issue. Apple has basically put me out of business. I need some answers. Thanks
Lots of weird stuff here that doesn't have much to do with what's wrong with the hardware or software.
vdubreeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 10:29 AM   #54
Fandorin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4
Default

This thread made for an interesting read, although I can't say I'm any the wiser after going through it.

Not that I did expect to, mind, there's just about nothing under the sun that all, or even most, people in the world would agree upon, you don't look for "truths" in forums, you look for personal experiences and viewpoints that could relate to your own, giving you a wider perspective, and this is a pretty good one in that respect.

Well, who or rather where am I, in the first place? Here stands a caveman who was cryogenically frozen, for reasons that remain rather mysterious to these days, around the time of the discovery of the (digital) wheel, and has been recently awoken by the music bug biting harder than it ever did, much to my own surprise…

I used to be, in fact, an amateur musician but also a semi-professional (according to whether I got paid or not) sound engineer (well, assistant…) back in the days of recorders with Mickey Mouse ears and tapes as thick as a pint (which is nearly an armful), but I got to see the digital dawn up close before my eyelids became too heavy, and I got myself a rather decent "wheel" for my home studio at the time, something like…

Mac G4/400 (2000)
RME Hammerfall PCI audio board
Swissonic 8 ch. AD/DA converters I/O
Opcode Studio 4 MIDI interface
A couple rackfuls of synths, keyboards and assorted MIDI stuff, guitars etc.
Cubase VST (I had been using that since v. 1.0 on the Atari, that's how old I am, in case anyone wonders, and no, I definitely wasn't a child prodigy by far... :-))

I think I could be forgiven for thinking that, although not a true "expert" and hardly up to date, I was not entirely illiterate in the field of DAWs, which we still stubbornly called "sequencers" in those days, and digital recording/editing in general, and that's why the realisation this is in fact now the case was rather shocking…

Waking up after all this time, we're talking about a decade, a few geological eras in computer terms, and finding myself on rather shaky legs, this is where I re-started…

iMac 24" (2007)
Focusrite Scarlett 8i6 audio/MIDI USB interface
Korg Wavestation (A survivor, currently only used as master keyboard just because it's still there)
Garage Band (Logic? Reaper? ????)

Well, comparisons have been made before with assorted weapons, but being a pacifist I couldn't tell a Howitzer from a Wurlitzer, so I'll stick to my favourite metaphorical field with regards to the computer industry, which is automotive, or vehicles in general.

Garage Band, after using it for about a year, and compared to my prehistoric experiences, feels like a bicycle. A very nice one, mind you, all carbon fibre with full suspensions, disc-brakes and more gears you can shake a stick at, I in fact agree with the poster who previously pointed out there's more under Garage Band's bonnet than meets the casual eye, and I've immensely enjoyed strolling around the countryside with it, but I've recently bumped into the entrance to a highway, and they just wouldn't let me in with my bicycle… and you all know what I mean by that, although it might be something different for all of us, just one feature that wouldn't go as far as we'd like, be it about sound quality or ease of use or whatever…

Don't worry, they told me, here's the key to a Porsche (Logic), leave your bike there and take this… which I did, and I was scared shitless, although I did manage to make it go… at least, I can record my guitars AND my MIDI keyboard in there, and I can use all the virtual instruments, loops and effects from Logic's own, Garage Band and the Focusrite set of AU stuff, but all that took so long to learn how to just set it up, and then all sorts of what I consider the very basic advantages of Garage Band, for instance the ability to easily set both tempo AND key in a song project, turned out to be a complete and utter mystery in Logic… of course, that's not a very "professional" feature, for a composer, but for a fella working on arrangements for a pop/rock/blues/folk cover band, just trying out accompaniment loops for size, so to speak, and have them automatically tuned to the song's key, well, that's just a time-saving godsend nowhere to be found in Porsches and Ferraris, apparently…

Yes, because that's what they told me next, people "in the know"… you don't like the Porsche (Logic)? Well, of course, that's very good but it's flawed, everyone knows that, try the Ferrari (Reaper) instead, just as good performance-wise, if not even better, but MUCH better and simpler interface, why, you can even make your own…

Well, 4 days into Reaper, not full-time of course, and I did manage to record and play back a few guitar lines, but I'm still a long way away from persuading it that I DO own a MIDI keyboard as well, and yes, it's connected to the very same device the application can "see" and use for audio in and out, why not MIDI, for Pete's sake? And yet, all I get in the preference MIDI section is <disabled>…

I'm not asking for an answer to that specific issue, mind, even though I would certainly welcome one, before I start struggling with importing/using external stuff, sounds and effects I've come to rely onto, maybe even importing Garage Band projects (wishful thinking there, I guess…) or give up Reaper altogether, I understand this is not the place for that, but still in the realm of philosophy, I had Reaper introduced to me as the bee's knees, as powerful as Logic and nearly as simple as Garage Band, and I can't even get started with its setup, never mind actually DOING anything with it, with a full complement of user manuals and dozens of instructional videos… I might be seriously stoopid, and I know I've probably overlooked something really simple, as it's often the case, but all it took with Garage Band was connect the MIDI cable, select a virtual instrument on a track, press a key and it just worked, bless its puny little soul…

Well, I'm not giving up so early, don't buy into the old dog can't learn new tricks thing, motivation is all, old as dirt I might be, but I'm sure I can learn new stuff, with time, I just wonder, do I have enough? 60 days seemed like quite a reasonable time for a serious trial, BEFORE I started, now I'm not so sure anymore...

Someone mentioned earlier a possible "downgrading" of Logic, in the future, and while I'm ready to bemoan the furthering of Apple's collapse as a purveyor of "pro" equipment and applications, I must admit I wouldn't mind a "Garage Band Pro", personally, and same goes for a "Reaper Lite", how about that?

Right now, I'm in fact sitting on the proverbial fence, with the lovely and trusty but sadly limited bicycle on one side, and a couple of ineffable supercars I apparently can't drive on the other, and all I can do is wonder, is there a way I can get myself a Volkswagen Golf, or something as nicely "mediocre" as that?

Only, looks like there isn't… keep pushing on the pedals and stop complaining, or let your brain dribble out of your ears before you can get a peep out of the supercars and, of course, stop complaining…

Ah, well… guess that was a bit of a rant, too, and I'll leave you just as none the wiser as I still am, I'm afraid, sorry about going on a bit…


Cheers!

Frank
Fandorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 01:45 PM   #55
Sigilus
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,763
Default

I enjoyed reading that witty post.

I'm no Mac user, but the preferences page should be similar to other OS. I believe you just need to double click or something like it to change <disabled> to <enabled> and away you go!
Sigilus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2013, 02:28 PM   #56
Fandorin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4
Default

Well, Sigilus, it wasn't exactly away you go, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
Sometimes we forget that basic rule with computers, when the manual fails to make sense (to you, at least), you'd better just start clicking around and see what happens...

What the manual (Wiki) says:

<i>MIDI Devices
If your sound card supports MIDI, you'll see it listed on the MIDI Devices page of the Preferences window. Select the MIDI device(s) you wish you use, and right-click to enable them.</i>

What it might want to say:

MIDI Devices
If your sound card supports MIDI, you won't necessarily see it listed on the MIDI Devices page of the Preferences window. Select the MIDI device(s) you wish you use, if there's any, and right-click to enable them.

If there isn't any MIDI device in sight anywhere, nor a pop-up menu allowing you to select it, double-click around the place until a requester window appears.

There, you'll be asked to input, by hand, a name for the device you're setting up, but it won't work because the text field is disabled. No worries, it apparently doesn't matter. Next, you'll have to input an alias for the name you just haven't assigned, and it doesn't seem to matter what either, your auntie's name would probably do, mine's called Scarlett

Next come checkboxes to enable the MIDI input to work as a MIDI input, we'll examine its use as a lawnmower later on, for now click OK and aunt Scarlett's husband's name is Robert...

Ah, no, sorry, it still doesn't work, 'cause you forgot to right-click on the device you just set up, in order to enable the enabling of the enablement of the MIDI input as such.

And it's finally hello uncle Bob for good... it WORKS!

Now, I do understand most of what doesn't make much sense to me of the above would probably be perfectly clear and useful to people with more complex MIDI setups than mine, but I cannot in all honesty find anything in all that procedure that I would call "intuitive", in fact I still don't quite understand what I've done in there, exactly, to make it work...

Well, never mind, as I said before it's early days, sometimes you need to get in the "mood" of an application, so to speak, and then everything starts to make sense all at once, as discouraging as the above experience might sound in that respect, at first glance...

So, I finally got the Ferrari started, it's moving, now second gear... erm... where's the gearstick?

54 days to go and counting...

Ah, and, please note that all the above is meant as light irony, not sarcasm... it's just that I can't help seeing the funny side of things... do I get a fiver?
Fandorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 10:17 AM   #57
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago sometimes
Posts: 11,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandorin View Post
Sometimes we forget that basic rule with computers, when the manual fails to make sense (to you, at least), you'd better just start clicking around and see what happens...
That is not a basic rule of computers,
but a basic rule of the new generation of unthinking, unstructured, uncritical, unordered techies and techie companies.

That's right. I am an old fogie who still thinks that you have put out only part of a product if you skipped the documentation.
__________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/msorenson
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 12:51 PM   #58
BobM
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandorin View Post

What the manual (Wiki) says:
Er.. Wiki manual?

Try this one, http://www.reaper.fm/userguide/ReaperUserGuide440C.pdf

It’s on the Top right corner of the Reaper home page.
BobM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 07:01 AM   #59
Fandorin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobM View Post
Er.. Wiki manual?
Try this one, http://www.reaper.fm/userguide/ReaperUserGuide440C.pdf
It’s on the Top right corner of the Reaper home page.
Got that one first thing, that's why I felt the need for something else, namely...

http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.php/ReaperQuickstart

Now, also with reference to msore's comments, manuals will be manuals, it doesn't take a much "new" generation, it's always been like that, there's a whole publishing industry based on titles on the lines of "What the manual of [insert name of software or device of your choice] doesn't tell you", it appears, reasonably enough, that with software of this complexity they just couldn't include ALL the fine details about everything and ALL the odd quirky cases when the basic procedure wouldn't work (and that's me there), or it would come out as thick as the whole of the U.S.A. telephone directory, unmanageable even as a PDF, never mind actual paper.

I don't really think Reaper's manual is worse (or better, I'm afraid) than dozens, if not hundreds, I've been through in the past 3 or 4 decades, there are limitations to what one could do with a "linear" approach, while a non-linear, online help support with an ever-expanding database of fine details and "quirks" and a sophisticated search algorithm would probably take too much resources, either financial or time-consuming, to be easily implemented.

But, hey, that's why we're here, after all, isn't it? If and when the manual's not helpful enough, for whatever reason, and we don't remember, or are a bit afraid to start clicking around and see what happens, User Forums is the place to go to, asking questions to friendly and helpful people, amid a barrage of silly comical/philosophical ramblings...

Speaking of which...

You ever heard that myth about "boys don't read manuals"?

That's a sexist and very untrue remark, when's the last time you've seen a lady with her nose buried into the user manual of anything?

I'm afraid it's humans that don't read manuals, unless they really HAVE to...

Thanks to all for your comments.


Cheers!

Frank

Last edited by Fandorin; 07-04-2013 at 07:06 AM.
Fandorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2013, 11:48 AM   #60
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago sometimes
Posts: 11,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandorin View Post
Now, also with reference to msore's comments, manuals will be manuals,
Frank. The Reaper manual is GREAT. A prime example of what software manuals USED to be like, and SHOULD be like.

But look around, across the landscape of software products. Manuals are disappearing, as are other forms of support for users. And consumers suffer for it. One more way corporations cheat their customers.
__________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/msorenson
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 09:30 PM   #61
Susan G
Human being with feelings
 
Susan G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Putnam County, NY, USA
Posts: 3,916
Default

Hi Fandorin-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandorin View Post
I don't really think Reaper's manual is worse (or better, I'm afraid) than dozens, if not hundreds, I've been through in the past 3 or 4 decades...
IMO, it's quite a bit better than many if not most "linear" printable manuals for DAWs in the past few decades (as opposed to context-sensitive Help files, which of course this isn't, and you're right--there aren't the resources for it.)

Quote:
Speaking of which...

You ever heard that myth about "boys don't read manuals"?

That's a sexist and very untrue remark, when's the last time you've seen a lady with her nose buried into the user manual of anything?
I've never heard that myth, but being myself a "lady," I guarantee you I've read many user manuals cover-to-cover, but I'd be hard pressed to tell you when or if I had a witness or when I've seen anyone else (male or female) with their nose buried in a user manual. I don't know where I'd have to be to see that.

-Susan
Susan G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 09:37 PM   #62
Susan G
Human being with feelings
 
Susan G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Putnam County, NY, USA
Posts: 3,916
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by msore View Post
Frank. The Reaper manual is GREAT. A prime example of what software manuals USED to be like, and SHOULD be like.

But look around, across the landscape of software products. Manuals are disappearing, as are other forms of support for users. And consumers suffer for it. One more way corporations cheat their customers.
Hi msore-

But if the writing's on the wall and more and more users are turning to forums rather than even bothering to look at the supplied written documentation, why bother with written documentation (from the corporation's POV)? They're wasting their money paying people to document their products if no one bothers to reference it.

-Susan
Susan G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2013, 09:40 PM   #63
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago sometimes
Posts: 11,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Susan G View Post
Hi msore-

But if the writing's on the wall and more and more users are turning to forums rather than even bothering to look at the supplied written documentation, why bother with written documentation (from the corporation's POV)? They're wasting their money paying people to document their products if no one bothers to reference it.

-Susan
You are correct. The culture of techie consumers has MOVED from the reasonable and effective stance of expecting documentation to the unreasonable and ineffective stance of wandering around the wild west of the internet to try to FIND decent documentation and instruction.
__________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/msorenson
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 03:19 AM   #64
Fandorin
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 4
Default

Well, excuse me, lady and gentleman, but you seem to be off on a tangent here, going to extremes that were never meant to be, not by myself at least.

Never said you don't need manuals, all I said was that they can't be "perfect", while you seem to believe Reaper's makes an exception.

And yet, I stumbled upon something the manual couldn't help me with, and how would I know it couldn't if I hadn't read the relevant section in the first place? I'm ready to admit I (still) haven't gone through it virtual cover to virtual cover, but I got stopped in my tracks a bit too early for that.

That's when I tried the Reaper's Wiki, hoping it would be more "expanded" on specific topics, and when that failed to solve my problem as well, that's when I finally came here, and I still find it a fairly reasonable process.

Same as I find the advice I got perfectly sensible, while you consider it plain silly if not downright reckless, and yet it worked for me.

And yes, I know lots of people, of any imaginable age and sex (I won't inflict any more attempts at light-hearted humour, I promise) can't even be bothered to learn that a manual exists before they jump on forums and start asking questions Google could answer in 10 seconds, but that wasn't my case, and I doubt you'd find many of those people lasting much more than said 10 seconds, when faced with something like Reaper, they'd give up much earlier.

To me, we need BOTH the manual AND the user forums, and why would there be any of the latter if that wasn't the case? Why would we be here at all, looking for advice or willing to give it?

All I can say is forgive me for being so dumb!
Fandorin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 07:42 AM   #65
msore
Human being with feelings
 
msore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Chicago sometimes
Posts: 11,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fandorin View Post
Well, excuse me, lady and gentleman, ...

All I can say is forgive me for being so dumb!
Don't take it so personally. In most questions, there is a specific case, and there are general trends, which the personal case may say is a tangent.

I am glad you found good info.

Meanwhile the general pattern of less and less good information being put out by makers of software products is rampant. And the general pattern of more worse and worse and conflicting information on the web is rampant.

Sorry if I stepped out of your particular problem to note the trends. I certainly did not mean to suggest anything about you personally.
__________________
http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/msorenson
My religion is all or none.
msore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #66
Susan G
Human being with feelings
 
Susan G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Putnam County, NY, USA
Posts: 3,916
Default

Hi Fandorin-

I meant nothing personal by my comments either and never said that REAPER's manual was "perfect," just that IMO it's better than many, if not most. I certainly never said nor meant to imply anything about your intelligence, nor that I thought coming here for answers was silly or reckless.

My general point was that if software developers see more and more users turning to web-based answers first they don't have much incentive to hire on a documentation specialist; that's all.

-Susan
Susan G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 01:39 PM   #67
Alfonx
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 14
Default Mac vs. PC

Hi all!
Because of a problem i checked the behavior of midi-input in reaper on my pc.
Yes, i own an macbook since 1 year and i love this device because its quite and not heavy.

BUT.... making music is not the first thing in my mind when i look at this silver one.

Lets make it short:
The behavior is the SAME on PC as on the mac.
I searched the web - and it tells me what i thought: It doesnt matter what Hardware you use. It matters what Software you are using.
So here is my conclusion:
GB gives you great success in short time.
But REAPER on my PC (because of the sample editing possibilites) is much more intuitive than my mac.

Damn it: Mac for music was great 15 years before. But now - its just cool to have this device. BUT IT DOESNT MATTER if youre using your pc or a mac.
Peace!
Alfonx!
__________________
using Ableton Live 9 Suite, Push 2, Reaper, Intua Beatmaker 2, E-MU X-Board, Steinberg UR22 MK2, ESI Juli@ Soundcard
Started with Soundblaster and great Modeditors and Turtle Beach Tropez Sample Soundcard
Alfonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2015, 01:49 PM   #68
LightOfDay
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Lower Rhine Area, DE
Posts: 964
Default

you answered to a thread that was abandoned more than 2 years ago. you noticed that? most of the participants are dead now.
LightOfDay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2015, 04:24 AM   #69
Alfonx
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LightOfDay View Post
you answered to a thread that was abandoned more than 2 years ago. you noticed that? most of the participants are dead now.
Hey...I hope they are all still alive, making excellent music !!!
__________________
using Ableton Live 9 Suite, Push 2, Reaper, Intua Beatmaker 2, E-MU X-Board, Steinberg UR22 MK2, ESI Juli@ Soundcard
Started with Soundblaster and great Modeditors and Turtle Beach Tropez Sample Soundcard
Alfonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2015, 03:25 PM   #70
danl
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 13
Default help...befuddled and be wildered

I am also going from garage band to reaper (for now just using the evaluation program).,Im taking a course from georgia institute of technology (music section) online and this is the DAW they are teaching with
and I've stumbling ..badly...as a home work assignment is to midi a drum file, use a virtual keyboard and put it on file along with two auto files...I have the drum file, the bass I m really having a problem with the audio...I can preference the audio devices...for input of a guitar directly in the file i can see the input put i can't hear it...I think I got the input ok.,..the output is not mapped correctly or something...I have looked on you tube...Ive read the forum ....but I am running out of time for my homework assignment.

any and all help welcomed.....I have a iMac, a blue snowball and can plug in the guitar for a direct input...
again help is needed for this lost student.....
danl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 02:18 PM   #71
Alfonx
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 14
Default

@danl There is a little speaker icon at each track. Click it to enable monitoring the input
__________________
using Ableton Live 9 Suite, Push 2, Reaper, Intua Beatmaker 2, E-MU X-Board, Steinberg UR22 MK2, ESI Juli@ Soundcard
Started with Soundblaster and great Modeditors and Turtle Beach Tropez Sample Soundcard
Alfonx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.