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Old 07-12-2013, 03:42 PM   #1
truproductions
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Default Reaper causing excessive overheating in Macbook Pro

Hi all,

I recently switched to Reaper last week at the recommendation of my producer and after a few days going through tutorials I was able to pick it up quickly and loved the customization and many options it had to offer. I finally had my first real recording session using it tracking vocals earlier this week.

Session info:
Running all this through a 2012 non retina MBP with Lion OSX, audio interface Apogee Duet. Project sample rate 44.1 kHz, Audio Device block size 96 (giving me 3.4ms listed latency)

At the default buffering settings, having a Waves Rchannel plugin at the folder level and a delay send, I was getting clicks and pops and audio stuttering. Also, the fans on my MBP jumped from 2000 to 6000rpm and my mac stat counter listed the GPU temp rising up to 160F. This is of course unacceptable as overheating degrades laptops overtime, plus the clicks and pops and stuttering made tracking impossible.

I used Logic Pro 9 previously and that DAW has a great "low latency" setting that enables you to track with multiple plug-ins on the track such as compressors, delay, and even auto-tune for live tracking. I've been trying to find a setting on Reaper that could simulate this to no avail.

I did further research and found many other Macbook Pro users experiencing the overheating and increased latency. I experimented changing different Reaper settings. It looks like its more stable when the audio device block size is 128 but that gives me latency that is too high for the type of music I am tracking which is fast vocal rapping and the artist hears audible latency when tracking. So I kept block size at 96 and tried tweaking the buffering setting by un-checking "auto-detect the number of needed audio processing threads" and put 1 instead. That helped a little bit. See pics below for screenshots of my project set-up and preferences. With the current set-up I am able to track without clicks or pops with one Rchannel compressor on a folder track but with no delay or reverb sends. I'd really like to be able to track with the sends not causing clicks and audio stuttering.

I can only assume this is an issue with Reaper utilizing the Mac GPU card during audio processing which is should not be doing since the Quad core processor should handle it with ease. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix for this on the way? I really like to switch over completely to Reaper and have the rest of my team do as well for compatibility, but we all have Macs and if this is an issue with Reaper and Macs, then we'll need a fix ASAP to continue.

Thanks for your time!







http://i43.tinypic.com/2i8em39.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2dl9cmb.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/30uda9d.jpg
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Old 07-12-2013, 05:06 PM   #2
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Looks like you have your system sample rate set to 48k but the Reaper project at 44.1k. So Reaper would be doing conversion on the fly.
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:13 AM   #3
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Looks like you have your system sample rate set to 48k but the Reaper project at 44.1k. So Reaper would be doing conversion on the fly.
Thanks, I totally forgot about that. I checked the box and now have my system sample rate set to 44100 to match the Reaper project. This helped a bit, but was still not able to have delay and reverb on a folder send while recording without experiencing clicks and pops. I then tried something that seems to have helped further.

In reaper pref -> audio -> buffering. I unchecked "Optimize buffering for low latency hardware". Now I am actually able to track with the delay/reverb sends in my folder track without clicks and audio distortion. Fan speed only went up to 2500rpm and GPU was at 140F at the highest. The final test was to see if I could track live with the Autotunes plug in inserted on the folder track. It worked without clicks/pops but significant latency heard. In comparison, Logic was able to track live with Autotune with imperceptible latency. Still haven't been able to match the "low latency" mode of Logic here in Reaper (wherein 2-3 plugins can be inserted while tracking without any noticeable latency)

It looks like for the Macbook pro and Reaper, when Reaper settings are set to let the DAW optimize or perform auto detect audio processing needed it is actually putting the system into unnecessary overdrive. Looks like specific manual setting have to be carefully inputed to circumvent this. Still trying to decide if this is a deal breaker for me and the team. Could this be due to the fact that Reaper was made initially for PC/Windows machines? A good friend of mine who runs Reaper on PC has never encountered the overheating/excessive fan/system overload issues I have.
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:38 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by truproductions View Post
Could this be due to the fact that Reaper was made initially for PC/Windows machines? A good friend of mine who runs Reaper on PC has never encountered the overheating/excessive fan/system overload issues I have.
That can very much be the case. If you can be arsed, try to Bootcamp Windows 7 on your MBP and see if the same overheating happens with the same Reaper settings. If it doesn't, everything should be clear.
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Old 07-13-2013, 08:10 AM   #5
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Could this be due to the fact that Reaper was made initially for PC/Windows machines? A good friend of mine who runs Reaper on PC has never encountered the overheating/excessive fan/system overload issues I have.
Seriously doubt it. Reaper in OSX is the most stable DAW experience you can get.

I can tell you that I can run live sound with 36 or more inputs and lots of Waves and other plugins (SSL channel strips, deessers, 6 or 7 verbs and delays, L2 on mains, etc) on my old 2.8GHz C2D Macbook Pro. I had to increase the sample buffer to 192 samples and lower the sample rate from 96k to 48k to accommodate the plugin load. Still gives me 11ms total system latency (imperceptible). Note that I'm talking about total system latency, not just the latency reported by Reaper. No errors or dropped samples. Now the old C2D does use 80 - 90% CPU and ramps up it's fans to do this job but it's nothing out of range for the Macbook Pro. My i7 Mac Pro just idles the whole time. This is all while recording all the inputs to multitrack the whole time too.

Ultimately I suspect you'll find a plugin is the culprit. For example, if I remove all plugins from the session, I can run at 96k with a 32 sample buffer with no errors.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #6
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This is an old issue and one which I've posted about quite a few times. You can make Reaper on OSX consume a lot of CPU very easily.
Open an empty project then open the Performance meter and keep adding tracks. Every empty track eats CPU even with no media or FX on it. 100 empty tracks consumes a steady 15% cpu on my MBP. Now go into Preferences>Audio>playback un-tick Run FX when stopped. Click apply and suddenly your project will stop consuming CPU. However now you can't play a VSTi/AUi.
I guess Reaper's flexibility is our downfall in this instance, every track is the same in Reaper world, so they all continue to process audio even when stopped. Really only VSTi/AUi tracks need to do this.
I love Reaper but can't use it on the move unless I'm near a power outlet as the CPU usage kills the battery in no time.
OK the above isn't a realistic real world example, but the situation is worse with tracks with Audio/Midi and FX on them.
I wish there was an only Run Fx when stopped for VSTi/AUi tracks.
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:07 PM   #7
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Command+Shift+3


Have you tried a buffer of 64 or 128? Those are more standard buffer sizes.
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Old 07-13-2013, 04:31 PM   #8
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My MBP is the hottest computer I've ever owned; the thing spins up to 5000rpm just to watch Netflix.

But GPU heat? I would say remove all Waves plugins and see if it persists. There's something about the way certain versions of Waves VSTs draw that I've read about causing issues (I don't really use any so I can't tell you much more than that). Actually save a copy, take that copy and pull all plugins offline (I think you can do this with one click at the Open dialog). If you're getting crazy heat spikes at this point it's REAPER. If you're not turn plugins on one by one until you find the offending plugin. I can tell you on my MBP (2011 non-retina) I'm most definitely not seeing this kind of heat.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:17 AM   #9
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Default MBP fan noise

Hi
Sorry to say but MBP before retina has a scrappy fan system. As soon as the load exceed 15-20% the fan makes a lot of noise. The same issue if you render video.
I got pissed and bought a new Retina, also with more memory and somewhat faster processor and the problem is gone.
maybe not what you wish to hear, though
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
Command+Shift+3


Have you tried a buffer of 64 or 128? Those are more standard buffer sizes.
In regards to buffer size, are you are referring to Audio -> Device -> "Blocks size"? At a buffer of 64, there is lots of clicks and pops during recording. At a buffer of 128, there is a slight but perceptible latency detected. I am recording fast rapping vocals, so the artist can actually hear the a bit of the latency and its bothersome to his vocal performance.

I found that block size of 96 was the happy medium, but I'm not happy as to why I'm not able to track at 64 on my MBP like some users have stated on here.

Below is a screenshot of my current project. I really only have 2 WAVES plug ins active during tracking: the Rchannel plug and a send to the Delay plug. I've also included a screenshot of my current Audio Buffering settings.

Thank you everyone for the responses.





http://i41.tinypic.com/2cdxrh1.png
http://i40.tinypic.com/14173x0.png
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:37 AM   #11
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My MBP is the hottest computer I've ever owned; the thing spins up to 5000rpm just to watch Netflix.

But GPU heat? I would say remove all Waves plugins and see if it persists. There's something about the way certain versions of Waves VSTs draw that I've read about causing issues (I don't really use any so I can't tell you much more than that). Actually save a copy, take that copy and pull all plugins offline (I think you can do this with one click at the Open dialog). If you're getting crazy heat spikes at this point it's REAPER. If you're not turn plugins on one by one until you find the offending plugin. I can tell you on my MBP (2011 non-retina) I'm most definitely not seeing this kind of heat.
In regards to the WAVES plugs, I really only have 2 WAVES plug ins active during tracking: the Rchannel plug and a send to the Delay plug all on the folder track and not on individual tracks. It just seems odd that a common plug like these would cause those spikes.

I tried what you mentioned and saw the heat spikes with the WAVES VSTs, then I switched to using the WAVES AU (the ones I used with Logic Pro) and the spikes where much much lower. Not even a spike, just a small increase in heat and fan speed (+400 rpm) Does this mean that for optimal performance, Reaper on Mac should only be using AU plugins?
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:44 AM   #12
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Seriously doubt it. Reaper in OSX is the most stable DAW experience you can get.

I can tell you that I can run live sound with 36 or more inputs and lots of Waves and other plugins (SSL channel strips, deessers, 6 or 7 verbs and delays, L2 on mains, etc) on my old 2.8GHz C2D Macbook Pro. I had to increase the sample buffer to 192 samples and lower the sample rate from 96k to 48k to accommodate the plugin load. Still gives me 11ms total system latency (imperceptible). Note that I'm talking about total system latency, not just the latency reported by Reaper. No errors or dropped samples. Now the old C2D does use 80 - 90% CPU and ramps up it's fans to do this job but it's nothing out of range for the Macbook Pro. My i7 Mac Pro just idles the whole time. This is all while recording all the inputs to multitrack the whole time too.

Ultimately I suspect you'll find a plugin is the culprit. For example, if I remove all plugins from the session, I can run at 96k with a 32 sample buffer with no errors.
Wow, glad to see you can run alot of plugs on your live tracking chain. What audio interface are you using? I wonder if that has something to do with it, I'm using Apogee Duet. Also, what are you using to calculate your system latency? Is the 11ms the roundtrip latency?

Lastly, are you running AU plugins or VST? I found that the WAVES AU plugins to be much more stable on Reaper for Mac. Thanks for the reply!
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:47 AM   #13
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That can very much be the case. If you can be arsed, try to Bootcamp Windows 7 on your MBP and see if the same overheating happens with the same Reaper settings. If it doesn't, everything should be clear.
I thought of doing that, but my audio interface is Apogee Duet which won't work on Windows. I have an old m-audio fastrack pro somewhere, I'll try that when running Parallels (I don't really want to have to use bootcamp). But regardless, I'd much rather stay on the OSX side since all my other programs are mac
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Old 07-14-2013, 05:48 AM   #14
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Wow, glad to see you can run alot of plugs on your live tracking chain. What audio interface are you using? I wonder if that has something to do with it, I'm using Apogee Duet. Also, what are you using to calculate your system latency? Is the 11ms the roundtrip latency?

Lastly, are you running AU plugins or VST? I found that the WAVES AU plugins to be much more stable on Reaper for Mac. Thanks for the reply!
I'm using 2 MOTU 828mk3's at the moment for the live mix rig. I also use an Apogee Rosetta 800 192k and a MOTU 828mk2.

Latency measured with a loopback test. analog mic input > apogee ad-16 > MOTU 828mk3 > Reaper > 828mk3 = 11ms at 192 sample buffer.

I use the VST versions first as Reaper seems to have issues with AU sometimes. I get the impression that AU is becoming obsolete to VST and maybe isn't accommodated for as well? Not sure... had a couple issues with AU's in Reaper before. But some run with no issues.

If you're running live sound it's a good idea to test any plugins you might use ahead of time.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:09 AM   #15
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In regards to the WAVES plugs, I really only have 2 WAVES plug ins active during tracking: the Rchannel plug and a send to the Delay plug all on the folder track and not on individual tracks. It just seems odd that a common plug like these would cause those spikes.

I tried what you mentioned and saw the heat spikes with the WAVES VSTs, then I switched to using the WAVES AU (the ones I used with Logic Pro) and the spikes where much much lower. Not even a spike, just a small increase in heat and fan speed (+400 rpm) Does this mean that for optimal performance, Reaper on Mac should only be using AU plugins?
Nah, I think it's specifically a Waves thing. Waves plugins should ultimately work fine but based on what you're seeing I wouldn't be trying to use them at almost no latency.

I would also try very hard to reduce the resource load that you're trying to track with (plugins). On that machine you really should be able to track at the lowest possible latency imo and I suspect your plugin load is the reason you cannot.

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Hi
Sorry to say but MBP before retina has a scrappy fan system. As soon as the load exceed 15-20% the fan makes a lot of noise. The same issue if you render video.
I got pissed and bought a new Retina, also with more memory and somewhat faster processor and the problem is gone.
maybe not what you wish to hear, though
Absolutely, however...160deg GPU temperature is not normal even for a MBP with the cooling flaws. A new retina isn't going to fix this problem because it's not a cooling problem as much as a problem with serious heat spikes. Figuring out how to not trigger that heat is going to be much more useful than a computer that can deal with it 5% better.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:19 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
Nah, I think it's specifically a Waves thing. Waves plugins should ultimately work fine but based on what you're seeing I wouldn't be trying to use them at almost no latency.

I would also try very hard to reduce the resource load that you're trying to track with (plugins). On that machine you really should be able to track at the lowest possible latency imo and I suspect your plugin load is the reason you cannot.


Absolutely, however...160deg GPU temperature is not normal even for a MBP with the cooling flaws. A new retina isn't going to fix this problem because it's not a cooling problem as much as a problem with serious heat spikes. Figuring out how to not trigger that heat is going to be much more useful than a computer that can deal with it 5% better.

Hi
Took a big project with 50 tracks and tested in Logic and Reaper. I get app. 15 % system load in Reaper and 3-4 % load in Logic. So there must be something wrong connecting to the audo server on Macs. Also using different audo interfaces. user load is more equal, app 20 in Reaper and 16-17 in Logic. Check this Please.
This is not good for Reaper at all on Mac. And obviously the fan will start to move quite some earlier then when using Logic.
ANYBODY ELSE GET THE SAME BEHAVIOUR ??
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:25 AM   #17
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Hi
Took a big project with 50 tracks and tested in Logic and Reaper. I get app. 15 % system load in Reaper and 3-4 % load in Logic. So there must be something wrong connecting to the audo server on Macs. Also using different audo interfaces. user load is more equal, app 20 in Reaper and 16-17 in Logic. Check this Please.
This is not good for Reaper at all on Mac. And obviously the fan will start to move quite some earlier then when using Logic.
ANYBODY ELSE GET THE SAME BEHAVIOUR ??
A 50 track project with how many plugins? Which ones? At what buffer? Are you comparing AU in Logic to AU in REAPER? To VST in REAPER? It's to the point where more specific detail is needed than just some general performance numbers.

ETA: Have you tried the suggestion from several posts above of trying the offending project with all effects offline, then bringing them online one by one to see if you can find the offending plugin?
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:36 PM   #18
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A 50 track project with how many plugins? Which ones? At what buffer? Are you comparing AU in Logic to AU in REAPER? To VST in REAPER? It's to the point where more specific detail is needed than just some general performance numbers.

ETA: Have you tried the suggestion from several posts above of trying the offending project with all effects offline, then bringing them online one by one to see if you can find the offending plugin?
Its a test case yes, both AU version, (Fabfilter Q and C) two per track, its the same plugins on all tracks. So there is no offending plugins, just bad performance pr se. The case is that Reaper seems to require a*lot of system resources. I have used Reaper since 2007, so this is not nothing I invent to put shit out there. I have a lot of project in Reaper as well- Buffer size is 128.

Not tried the offending project yet. I am just telling that I see some bad signs on performance on Reaper for MACs, and its annoying if you don´t have a machine that has a certain speed. Normally, my track count is lower, so I have been able to live with it.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:42 PM   #19
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Its a test case yes, both AU version, (Fabfilter Q and C) two per track, its the same plugins on all tracks. So there is no offending plugins, just bad performance pr se. The case is that Reaper seems to require a*lot of system resources. I have used Reaper since 2007, so this is not nothing I invent to put shit out there. I have a lot of project in Reaper as well- Buffer size is 128.

Not tried the offending project yet. I am just telling that I see some bad signs on performance on Reaper for MACs, and its annoying if you don´t have a machine that has a certain speed. Normally, my track count is lower, so I have been able to live with it.
Well we might have to agree to disagree on that, 50 tracks + 100 plugins for 16%app/20%user doesn't seem like "bad performance" to me. You say that Logic handles the same project more efficiently which I don't doubt but for a project that size I don't see how that CPU load is considered objectionable. Considering AU is native to Logic it doesn't surprise me that Logic can more efficiently handle a 100 AU plugin load. My experience is that VSTs can save you 25-50% of the load of the exact same AU. Since the plugins you listed are all AU/VST I would personally try the same 50 track project with 2 instances per track of the VST of the Fabfilter plugins; I believe it will be lighter (whether it will be the same as the Logic project I can't tell you).

The GPU problem in the original post does seem like a performance problem but, as I said, that's far more likely a matter of an offending plugin(s) (or perhaps the overall plugin load, it really depends a lot on exactly what plugins are doing what and where) so I'm not sure that test is demonstrating bad performance in REAPER either, although it still might be. If you can eliminate the plugins from the picture or, more realistically, figure out which one is throwing a fit at low latency you may even be able to find a workaround for that plugin (running it in a resource sandboxed mode or something like that).
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:35 PM   #20
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Well we might have to agree to disagree on that, 50 tracks + 100 plugins for 16%app/20%user doesn't seem like "bad performance" to me. You say that Logic handles the same project more efficiently which I don't doubt but for a project that size I don't see how that CPU load is considered objectionable. Considering AU is native to Logic it doesn't surprise me that Logic can more efficiently handle a 100 AU plugin load. My experience is that VSTs can save you 25-50% of the load of the exact same AU. Since the plugins you listed are all AU/VST I would personally try the same 50 track project with 2 instances per track of the VST of the Fabfilter plugins; I believe it will be lighter (whether it will be the same as the Logic project I can't tell you).

The GPU problem in the original post does seem like a performance problem but, as I said, that's far more likely a matter of an offending plugin(s) (or perhaps the overall plugin load, it really depends a lot on exactly what plugins are doing what and where) so I'm not sure that test is demonstrating bad performance in REAPER either, although it still might be. If you can eliminate the plugins from the picture or, more realistically, figure out which one is throwing a fit at low latency you may even be able to find a workaround for that plugin (running it in a resource sandboxed mode or something like that).
Hi More checking, its not a plugin problem, by just adding tracks in Reaper you will create a "system load" before any plugin is loaded (which add up to the 15-20% CPU load). By adding plugin´s, you create a "user load" on top of that. Just create 50 to 100 tracks and you will see. This is a shock for me to see......
I am curious to see if other systems has the same issue-
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:50 PM   #21
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Hi
Took a big project with 50 tracks and tested in Logic and Reaper. I get app. 15 % system load in Reaper and 3-4 % load in Logic. So there must be something wrong connecting to the audo server on Macs. Also using different audo interfaces. user load is more equal, app 20 in Reaper and 16-17 in Logic. Check this Please.
This is not good for Reaper at all on Mac. And obviously the fan will start to move quite some earlier then when using Logic.
ANYBODY ELSE GET THE SAME BEHAVIOUR ??
Yes, I can confirm, I'm having the same issue here. Compared to Logic, Reaper is showing more CPU load with same number of tracks and plug-ins. I have tried removing each plug-ins to find the culprit, but really the more I test the more I'm finding that it has less to do with the specific plug-in than to how Reaper handles the audio processing. If that is the case I'd hope to have this patched in a future update as macbook pros are a mainstay in the audio production world and I really would like to have Reaper as my go-to DAW. Right now, I have to change a lot of the default audio preference settings just to make it usable on my mac. Would be great if the default preferences worked out the bat like it does on PCs

What are your audio device settings and buffering settings? I'm finding that specific settings make a bigger difference in the CPU load rather than specific plugs.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:51 PM   #22
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its really a big problem for me as well on my year old mbp...

this has been my solution haha:

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-...op+cooling+pad
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:00 PM   #23
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Apologies for the age of this comment as I just don't have it in me to fire up Logic Audio Hell right now...

But when I was testing it and other DAWs 3 years ago, Logic had much higher CPU use than Reaper. Reaper was the ringer out of the bunch with ridiculous stability and efficiency. In fact it was the only DAW that would even work to mix live music at extreme low latency. Everything else including Logic would straight up crash with the plugins and settings I use. Logic and Mainstage were notable for their very high CPU usage and Ableton was notable for it's instability and crashing.


Could this be a 10.7 or 10.8 issue? Opinions seem divided on best OS.
I'm still running 10.6.8.

Last edited by serr; 07-15-2013 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:41 AM   #24
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I'm running Mac 10.7.5.

In regards to the cooling pad LOL . . . it shouldn't get that point in the first place where something like that needs to be used. Don't get me wrong, just from using Reaper for two weeks I was ready to completely switch over from Logic because Reaper is an amazing DAW with tons of customization. It's just that I'm finding out that there is a sizable portion of people on macbook pro's that have also been experiencing the overheating and massive CPU usage on Reaper sessions like I am. I, like everyone here, would love to see Reaper continue to flourish and grow in usage in the music community, so I feel like this issue should be addressed by the developers. What would be the best way to reach them about this problem?

side note: Each Mac generation has a different graphics card. For a long time the macbook pro's and many Macs had the Radeon cards, the 2012 generation and most recent ones have the NVIDIA cards. Maybe this is a stretch, but I'm just trying to see if this is caused by Reaper responding to the new NVIDIA graphics card like the one in my current MBP. The reason I say this is because in all the Reaper sessions I had that started to overheat, the GPU temp would spike in direct correlation to specific audio processing that was happening in Reaper at the same time like recording, or playback with plugins.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:00 AM   #25
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I'd just install Windows 7 and be done with it. Reaper would work faster with it than on OSX anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truproductions View Post
side note: Each Mac generation has a different graphics card. For a long time the macbook pro's and many Macs had the Radeon cards, the 2012 generation and most recent ones have the NVIDIA cards.
IIRC, this is not correct - Apple used nVidia before, and since the overheating issues with them, they switched to Radeons, which are what they are using since then till today.
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Old 07-15-2013, 04:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
IIRC, this is not correct - Apple used nVidia before, and since the overheating issues with them, they switched to Radeons, which are what they are using since then till today.
I think EvilDragon is right (was nVidia then Radeon) however today almost everything is the Intel on-board video I think. I want to say that's since the 2011 builds but I could be mistaken about that.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:18 PM   #27
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Default Mac graphics cards etc.

The latest MacBook Pro has NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M, which is way better then previous model e.g. 2011..There is also a new fan design with much lower noise. SO all in all is much better then previous models. It renders video far better then previous models. You can use Reaper for small to medium sized projects on such an machine, no doubt.
I am now convinced that Reaper in current OSX 10.8.4 has got into problems with audio (by just adding tracks). Not sure it has been like this for ever as I migrated to Mac 2 years ago. What I can say in general is that Mac OSX is a much more stable platform then PC all in all.
Its a kind of big disappointment to discover this as I always though Reaper was the leanest DAW. As said, Mr Justin & Co has to look into this pretty soon if Reaper on MAC shall be an alternative. It now sucks ay least 50% more CPU then Logic. Could also be that Apple did some change when they moved Logic into Apple store. Pro Tools 11 does seems to focus on such issues as well-
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:21 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by producer View Post
What I can say in general is that Mac OSX is a much more stable platform then PC all in all.
From my general experience, this is not true anymore with Windows 7 in comparison.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truproductions View Post
I'm running Mac 10.7.5.

In regards to the cooling pad LOL . . . it shouldn't get that point in the first place where something like that needs to be used. Don't get me wrong, just from using Reaper for two weeks I was ready to completely switch over from Logic because Reaper is an amazing DAW with tons of customization. It's just that I'm finding out that there is a sizable portion of people on macbook pro's that have also been experiencing the overheating and massive CPU usage on Reaper sessions like I am. I, like everyone here, would love to see Reaper continue to flourish and grow in usage in the music community, so I feel like this issue should be addressed by the developers. What would be the best way to reach them about this problem?

side note: Each Mac generation has a different graphics card. For a long time the macbook pro's and many Macs had the Radeon cards, the 2012 generation and most recent ones have the NVIDIA cards. Maybe this is a stretch, but I'm just trying to see if this is caused by Reaper responding to the new NVIDIA graphics card like the one in my current MBP. The reason I say this is because in all the Reaper sessions I had that started to overheat, the GPU temp would spike in direct correlation to specific audio processing that was happening in Reaper at the same time like recording, or playback with plugins.
My graphic card does not spike. hottest with 30% load is the CPUs approx 100d Celsius.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:32 PM   #30
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From my general experience, this is not true anymore with Windows 7 in comparison.
I have that as well - coming from there. Respect your opinion, but don´t agree.
I don´t like ddl`s all over the place. Its Unix behind the scenes, so if you believe in the DOS heritage, your welcome.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:42 PM   #31
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Mac fanboy comment:
It's interesting the level of functionality that Reaper appears to have with Windows but the troubleshooting and configuration is just too much. Then you need a dedicated machine. Then you update something and you're right back in R&D land...
end fanboy comment.

Anyway...
I don't have one of the newer MBP's here at the moment or I'd test it quick.

If you are at the point where other people are telling you that that model MBP works without issue for them, it might be a good sanity check to run a quick diagnostic on the MBP. There's a test on the Apple Service Diagnostic disc (image to copy to a USB drive actually) to test that the heat-sink is properly affixed to the CPU & GPU with thermal paste.


Again, I'm not as familiar with the last couple models as the older ones have much more bang for the buck for me. It's possible something slipped through the cracks. I like to rip on Windows for this kind of stuff but since Apple went to Intel we're subject to some of these compatibility shenanigans now too.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:44 PM   #32
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It's not my opinion, it's my EXPERIENCE. OSX can crash, and when it does, it's usually worse than when W7 crashes (I saw both happen and W7 handled it more gracefully).

Nothing to believe in, just hard facts from my observations. Not to mention that W7 perform better with SSDs, and in general disk streaming performance is better on Windows, which is really important in audio applications such as DAWs and samplers (this is verified by Steinberg, NI and EastWest, which all perform better on Windows platform w.r.t. disk streaming than on OSX).


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Old 07-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #33
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Just to be clear (addressing serr's last comment) I can validate that the OP's claim that my OS X MBP seems to handle tracks less than efficiently in comparison to REAPER on PC, for example. As the OP keeps urging if one opens a project, adds 50 empty tracks, the load on one's system (mine, anyway) is around 8-9%. Now go to a Windows 7 machine, open a project, add 50 empty tracks, the CPU meter is below 1%.

But I'm not sure it's truly a fair comparison. My Windows 7 machine (which is actually my production machine) is housed in a spacious, well cooled rack case; it utilizes desktop and server components. The Macbook Pro, despite earlier comments in the thread (a laptop is not considered a standard of the industry), is a tiny, cramped, poorly ventilated (probably the worst cooled computer I've ever seen having operated and/or serviced tens of thousands of machines in my life) machine running laptop components. It's not an apples to apples test. Would a Mac Pro display the same kind of problematic load? I'm not sure, I'll try to remember to fire REAPER up at work on one and see. But I'm betting it's the laptop more than the platform. People forget just because it's running that same awesome OS (and yes, count me amongst those who really like using OS X although as you can see my production environment runs Windows) that an Apple laptop is still a laptop (although a genius corrected me recently and pointed out, in reference to the ungodly heat generated by my MBP, that Apple was no longer referring to them as 'laptops' to discourage people from complaining about how hot they are to use on one's lap).

ETA: My suspicion might be partially wrong, I just booted into Windows 7 on this MBP, same 50 track experiment reads 1-1.5%. Boot Camp ftw.

ETA 2: 2011 Mac Pro 3-3.5%.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:16 PM   #34
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I'll refer back to my previous post up there ^^^^^^

This is related to the Run FX when stopped setting in Reaper. Untick this and click apply and the CPU drops to the same level as on the windows platform. However you can't work like this as then VSTi/AUi won't accept live input unless the track is playing.
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:44 AM   #35
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Quote:
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It's not my opinion, it's my EXPERIENCE. OSX can crash, and when it does, it's usually worse than when W7 crashes (I saw both happen and W7 handled it more gracefully).

Nothing to believe in, just hard facts from my observations. Not to mention that W7 perform better with SSDs, and in general disk streaming performance is better on Windows, which is really important in audio applications such as DAWs and samplers (this is verified by Steinberg, NI and EastWest, which all perform better on Windows platform w.r.t. disk streaming than on OSX).


You maybe right here. What is the MB/sec speed you get from your SSD disks on you PC
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:51 AM   #36
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I'll refer back to my previous post up there ^^^^^^

This is related to the Run FX when stopped setting in Reaper. Untick this and click apply and the CPU drops to the same level as on the windows platform. However you can't work like this as then VSTi/AUi won't accept live input unless the track is playing.
Reaper is not smart in this respect. Logic stops using CPU when not needed.
AND, when you start the track for playing you get the same high CPU usage !!
Please look at the system load and the User load.

It seems as Reaper has a bad implemention connecting to the audio system/drivers on Mac, which Apple seems to have overcome. Period
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Old 07-16-2013, 03:56 AM   #37
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You maybe right here. What is the MB/sec speed you get from your SSD disks on you PC
Don't have SSDs personally, but my friend who has both a PC and a Mac did the benchmarks, Windows are like 5-15% better in disk performance, depending on the drive and application.
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:27 AM   #38
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Don't have SSDs personally, but my friend who has both a PC and a Mac did the benchmarks, Windows are like 5-15% better in disk performance, depending on the drive and application.
Ok, can give you the MacPro data with SSD disk, the internal disk.

write 425 MB/sec read 500MB/sec (which is sufficient for writing 10bit RGB 4:4:4 video to disk in real time) tested with Blackmagic design disk test app.
any sample lib will just be a fraction of that.

external G-technology disk (7200rpm in serial Raid, 2 int disks) via thunderbolt.

write 230M/sec read 240 MB/sec.
For Thunderbolt you can daisy chain 7 units. So bring your sample libs up and running....
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:27 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Mac fanboy comment:

Anyway...
I don't have one of the newer MBP's here at the moment or I'd test it quick.

If you are at the point where other people are telling you that that model MBP works without issue for them, it might be a good sanity check to run a quick diagnostic on the MBP. There's a test on the Apple Service Diagnostic disc (image to copy to a USB drive actually) to test that the heat-sink is properly affixed to the CPU & GPU with thermal paste.
Thanks for the suggestion, I ran the diagnostic and everything is clear on the mac end. Every program I have from Adobe Premiere, to ProTools, to Logic runs smoothly, just having problems with Reaper. You know there's something wrong when a 10 track Reaper session with 3 plugins is causing similar high GPU usage, high CPU processing and causing the same amount of high heat temps as an Adobe Premiere Video editing session with 25 audio clips with transition effects, coloring, etc. (ran this test today because the last time I remember my MBP get that hot was when I was doing video editing) Something's just not right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngarjuna View Post
Just to be clear (addressing serr's last comment) I can validate that the OP's claim that my OS X MBP seems to handle tracks less than efficiently in comparison to REAPER on PC, for example. As the OP keeps urging if one opens a project, adds 50 empty tracks, the load on one's system (mine, anyway) is around 8-9%. Now go to a Windows 7 machine, open a project, add 50 empty tracks, the CPU meter is below 1%.

ETA: My suspicion might be partially wrong, I just booted into Windows 7 on this MBP, same 50 track experiment reads 1-1.5%. Boot Camp ftw.

ETA 2: 2011 Mac Pro 3-3.5%.
Its what i experienced as well, Reaper not acting as efficiently when run on Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by producer View Post
Reaper is not smart in this respect. Logic stops using CPU when not needed.
AND, when you start the track for playing you get the same high CPU usage !!
Please look at the system load and the User load.

It seems as Reaper has a bad implemention connecting to the audio system/drivers on Mac, which Apple seems to have overcome. Period
Yes, agreed. It could have something to do with the specific Reaper coding for the Mac platform that causes these performance issues. If this is the case, it would be great if the developers looked into this for the next update. As a paying customer, I feel like this is not too much to ask as there is a large Mac/Reaper user population out there that will benefit from this. Plus, I've tried just about everything, the developers are my last resort. I really do appreciate all the comments and suggestions from everyone on here. Thanks! And until there's a fix please keep the input and suggestions coming in.
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