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05-20-2018, 11:23 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 60
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About interfaces quality . . .
What models and brands of 2 input USB interfaces are the ones that have the best antialiasing filters in your opinion?
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05-20-2018, 11:28 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Why are you particularly interested in anti alias filters...?
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05-20-2018, 11:41 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,779
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Yeah... I don't think I've ever heard aliasing.
If there's an audible difference between interfaces it will be preamp noise.
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05-20-2018, 12:05 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios
Why are you particularly interested in anti alias filters...?
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Because my PC isn't exactly fast, so I need to record a t 44.1 or 48 KHz, and I wanna keep the audio as aliasing-free as possible.
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05-20-2018, 12:41 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymetalmixer
Because my PC isn't exactly fast, so I need to record a t 44.1 or 48 KHz, and I wanna keep the audio as aliasing-free as possible.
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What makes you think aliasing is some kind of a problem while recording because of the audio interface? (Sure, if you monitor through bad quality amp simulator plugins or whatever during recording, there may be aliasing but the audio interface won't help you with that.)
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05-20-2018, 09:19 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymetalmixer
Because my PC isn't exactly fast, so I need to record a t 44.1 or 48 KHz, and I wanna keep the audio as aliasing-free as possible.
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Seriously, at this point, audio quality, even on bargain basement converters is so good you're highly unlikely to hear aliasing on anything that hasnt been specifically designed to sound that way, or so hopelessly engineered by goons as to incur any instances of audible aliasing.
I hate to be the guy who posts the xiph.org Monty video, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM
Consumer grade converters from a decade ago or more have been proven to be adequate, if not "perfect" in terms of audio reproduction. Refinement has largely been in the areas of efficiency and optimisation. Implementation and the circuit path to and from the chip is far more important than something as "trivial" as the anti-aliasing functions of the conversion. At any rate, all of that takes place inside the chip, independent of your computer. Not to mention its a function that requires such minimal processing (any of which is handled by the systems in the interface anyway), as to be a literal non-issue as far as your computers processing resources are concerned.
You'd have to go preeeeety far back in the legacy of audio interfaces to encounter an interface where the conversion, and very specifically, the anti-aliasing programming is so poor that you'll hear it mucking up.
You can literally be assured that any consumer interface you care to purchase these days has sufficient anti-aliasing running on its embedded system chips as to be a literal non-issue where choice is concerned.
Concern, in that case, should be regarding feature sets that fit your needs, and maaayyyyybe whether or not the preamps have enough gain to feed any microphones that might be gain hungry (in which case, a Cloudlifter, or similar product will handle any of those concerns.)
Hope that helps.
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05-20-2018, 11:23 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mort_subite
Seriously, at this point, audio quality, even on bargain basement converters is so good you're highly unlikely to hear aliasing on anything that hasnt been specifically designed to sound that way, or so hopelessly engineered by goons as to incur any instances of audible aliasing.
I hate to be the guy who posts the xiph.org Monty video, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM
Consumer grade converters from a decade ago or more have been proven to be adequate, if not "perfect" in terms of audio reproduction. Refinement has largely been in the areas of efficiency and optimisation. Implementation and the circuit path to and from the chip is far more important than something as "trivial" as the anti-aliasing functions of the conversion. At any rate, all of that takes place inside the chip, independent of your computer. Not to mention its a function that requires such minimal processing (any of which is handled by the systems in the interface anyway), as to be a literal non-issue as far as your computers processing resources are concerned.
You'd have to go preeeeety far back in the legacy of audio interfaces to encounter an interface where the conversion, and very specifically, the anti-aliasing programming is so poor that you'll hear it mucking up.
You can literally be assured that any consumer interface you care to purchase these days has sufficient anti-aliasing running on its embedded system chips as to be a literal non-issue where choice is concerned.
Concern, in that case, should be regarding feature sets that fit your needs, and maaayyyyybe whether or not the preamps have enough gain to feed any microphones that might be gain hungry (in which case, a Cloudlifter, or similar product will handle any of those concerns.)
Hope that helps.
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Mmm, interesting. Thanks for the answer.
I guess I should go now for an interface with good pre-amps and low SNR then.
How good are the Audient and Focusrite Clarett USB interfaces in your opinion?
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05-21-2018, 05:26 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,239
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Are you working on Mac or PC?
If PC/Windows, then RME interfaces are generally reckoned to have the most stable and reliable drivers as well as being good quality in terms of mic pre-amps etc.
Not cheap though.
Andy
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05-21-2018, 06:05 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyp24
Are you working on Mac or PC?
If PC/Windows, then RME interfaces are generally reckoned to have the most stable and reliable drivers as well as being good quality in terms of mic pre-amps etc.
Not cheap though.
Andy
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PC. Also, I don't have as much budget to get RME interfaces, only the small ones from Audient and Focusrite.
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05-21-2018, 07:01 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 350
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Focusrite interfaces are great, particularly the 2-4 inputs if you're on a budget, really good pre-amps too.
I don't know what interface you have presently, but chances are the focusrite may surprise you if you're using them for Mic's etc as you can really push them without noise.
I went from an M-Audio to a Focusrite 6-7 years ago and couldn't believe the difference.
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05-21-2018, 08:02 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,036
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I think MOST decent audio interfaces, (Steinberg, Native Instruments, Focusrite, ZOOM, even Behringer) are going to be pretty good in terms of audio to digital conversion.
Where I've found issues with USB is **LATENCY**. Depending on how you want to record - if you want to listen to audio while you use internal computer effects you will be very interested in real time latency (RTL). Almost all USB interfaces run around 10ms - which to me greatly disrupts the "feel" of the groove. The exception is the ZOOM which can get down close to 4ms.
If you just want to record live bands or whatever then latency won't matter to you - because you're listening to the actual sound going into the computer.
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05-21-2018, 08:46 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCipher
I think MOST decent audio interfaces, The exception is the ZOOM which can get down close to 4ms.
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It is a USB3 interface?
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05-21-2018, 09:07 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 387
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I was recently looking for something like this for a mobile solution to use with my iPad and/or laptop while on the go and decided to go with the Apogee Duet for iPad/Mac/PC (note that it works with Windows 10; older versions of Windows are not supported). It has up to 75dB of gain available from the preamps (which aren't noisy by interface preamp standards), solid converters, and can be had for around $300-350 used; you probably won't beat it performance-wise anywhere near that price point.
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05-21-2018, 09:33 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavymetalmixer
What models and brands of 2 input USB interfaces are the ones that have the best antialiasing filters in your opinion?
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That specific instruction there kind of triggered some responses...
You're interested in the quality of the analog stages in general of course. From mic preamp to the analog front end of the AD converters. (You are quite correct that the analog stages - including any filtering - are what make the big difference between interfaces.)
The Apogee Duet (especially the first version) can be found for a surprisingly low price on Ebay nowadays. You absolutely WILL hear the difference vs. the likes of Presonus (or even cheaper interfaces). The original model will be firewire (which can be adapted to thunderbolt with an inexpensive adapter). The newer one has USB.
RME Babyface is basically the Duet with every bit the same quality but with additional digital inputs and another feature or two. But 2x or 3x the price. Never heard a bad review of RME.
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05-21-2018, 10:37 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennetng
It is a USB3 interface?
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It is USB3 but latency on USB2 is close enough to identical....like .01 or .02ms difference if I remember correctly.
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05-21-2018, 10:53 AM
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#16
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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I didn't want to believe it, given the hype machine marketing out there, but the Audient ID4 REALLY tested well! I'd likely go for the Zoom instead, but for the case mounted pedalboard project I'm working on right now, the audient's top mounted volume knob may be just the ticket
Here are some numbers http://kailuamusicschool.com/tech/ro...tency-roundup/
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05-21-2018, 11:04 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
I didn't want to believe it, given the hype machine marketing out there, but the Audient ID4 REALLY tested well! I'd likely go for the Zoom instead, but for the case mounted pedalboard project I'm working on right now, the audient's top mounted volume knob may be just the ticket
Here are some numbers http://kailuamusicschool.com/tech/ro...tency-roundup/
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Were you able to go to 32 buffers with the Audient? And were you using the beta driver?
https://audient.com/products/audio-i...id4/downloads/
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05-21-2018, 12:16 PM
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#18
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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Latest release driver as of about a month ago, didn't try 32.
For the particular projects I'm working on, RT CPU time is just under what 128 samples time would bring, so that and 256 are really the numbers I'm looking at. Unfortunately, the Focusrite drivers really fall behind at 256, so the Zoom, ID4 and surprisingly the Behringer 202HD were more reasonable choices for this one
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05-21-2018, 11:14 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,201
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Is that 10 mSec round-trip latency? That's not bad; it's equivalent to keeping time with someone playing 11 feet away. (Sound travels at 1.1 ft/mSec, so it's about 0.909 mSec per foot.)
I've played on stages that small, but most are a bit larger...
I wonder if this latency thing is going into absurd extremes; maybe it's the new replacement for the loudness wars?
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05-22-2018, 01:58 AM
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#20
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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I found out something weird when doing the asio 4 all test of the irig HD2 (22 miliseconds at 128)
When I was sitting in front of the studio monitors at my mixing position trying to play, I was like "holy crap, that's HORRIBLE", disturbing as hell
But when I stuck it in my live rig and played in our practice room, I couldn't give a crap less about the latency, its weird, it didnt bother me at all
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05-22-2018, 02:32 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
But when I stuck it in my live rig and played in our practice room, I couldn't give a crap less about the latency, its weird, it didnt bother me at all
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Was that playing guitar through it? 22ms is quite high, but amazing how your brain compensates for it, especially when you start playing with others as i think you all kinda find the middle ground after a few bars.
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