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Old 07-15-2018, 05:07 PM   #1
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Default always something... Reaper not closing

It has now happened 3 times... and is very disturbing

win7 64 pro reaper 5.92 64 portable install

I have been testing some sfz stuff with sforzando 64 bit vsti

and every few times reaper will not close and even task manager and end process tree will not get rid of it...

only a hard system reboot will do it....

never had prob's like this with reaper before so...

any ideas???
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:10 PM   #2
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Driver related crash which part of lives down in the OS kernel code - it gets orphaned and can't close the EXE (reaper.exe) because it can't receive the signal to do so - that's why it takes a reboot - in the simplest terms.

That said, this usually only happens when it crashes, if you mean just closing and it doesn't go away, likely a similar issue minus a crash.
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Old 07-15-2018, 05:59 PM   #3
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yeah Karbo you described it as it must be... I never see a crash
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:38 AM   #4
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well shoot... I got it to make a .dmp file and sending that to support cuz this just can't go on ....
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:16 AM   #5
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What's your sound card and are the drivers fully up to date? And can you repro this minus plugins etc?
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:55 PM   #6
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sound card is profire 2626 which has been solid as a rock forever...

and which works fine with other programs...


to repro the 'crash' without plugins in this particular portable install would be a royal PITA

I at first thought it might be caused by the newly installed 64 bit version of sforzando so I did uninstall that... and then the same kind of 'crash' came again...

I do have a second portable install that uses many less plugins... so I guess I'll keep trying to repro with that one to narrow down what this event is about
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post

to repro the 'crash' without plugins in this particular portable install would be a royal PITA
The portable install should be quick, easy and vanilla if we want to rule 95% of Reaper out of the picture, it doesn't give the final 5% such as some odd condition where a misbehaving plugin is Reaper's fault but still 95% is a lot to get off the table, even if I made that number up.

If you feel it's already related to a plugin or something, kind of the same thing, we have to question how much we suspect Reaper. If you have a dump, PM me, I can peek but I don't have Reaper symbols and may not see a thing but a chance there is an obvious problem or place to look next is also possible.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:02 PM   #8
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I have a DMP file... but don't find you have a PM listed as a way to contact you....
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
I have a DMP file... but don't find you have a PM listed as a way to contact you....
Cockos looked into this in the past, we never figured out why that is. I'll PM you.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:26 PM   #10
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thanks I got your PM but there is no way to reply to it.... really strange... I do have you in my contacts but again, there is no email or PM as a way to contact you... curious

so let me see... maybe I can upload the DMP as a zip to the stash... brb
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:28 PM   #11
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here we go:

https://stash.reaper.fm/33964/DUMP%20FILE.zip

thanks for you help and brains...
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:47 PM   #12
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See if you can repro without the FL Studio VST:

Quote:

rax=0000000002fdb7f0 rbx=00000000002eaa90 rcx=0000000002fdb7f0
rdx=000000000012f601 rsi=0000000002fde220 rdi=0000000002dfdf9d
rip=0000000002c0ad1f rsp=000000000012dcd0 rbp=000000000012dd80
r8=000000000012e700 r9=000000000012df70 r10=0000000002c0c5c0
r11=000000000012e160 r12=000000000012f620 r13=00000000002eac78
r14=0000000002c0d32a r15=0000000002efcb40
iopl=0 nv up ei pl nz na po nc
cs=0033 ss=002b ds=002b es=002b fs=0053 gs=002b efl=00010204

FL_Studio_VSTi__Multi_+0xad1f: <========


00000000`02c0ad1f 488b19 mov rbx,qword ptr [rcx] ds:00000000`02fdb7f0=????????????????
Translation - FLStudio VST asked to move whatever data is living at address 02fdb7f0 into the rbx CPU register, the ???? means that address is invalid aka "no can do". Looks like that VST was compiled only 10 days ago, might be a clue...

Image name: FL Studio VSTi (Multi).dll
Timestamp: Fri Jul 06 11:35:51 2018
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:10 PM   #13
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great... thanks that was a forgotten recent addition and I really don't need it so I'll get rid of it....

I'll bet you nailed it!
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:00 AM   #14
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shoot.... no that did not do it...

I thought at first it was the problem but just had reaper do the same crash again... FLS studio is totally gone so that must not have been it...

edit:

got a new dmp file... gonna try the online analysis and brb
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
shoot.... no that did not do it...

I thought at first it was the problem but just had reaper do the same crash again... FLS studio is totally gone so that must not have been it...

I tried to have task manager create a new dmp file and it said it was making one but it did not show up in the app data folders....

I wonder what to try next
I can give you a method for getting a dump using procdump from sysinternals automatically when it crashes but we aren't sure it's the same issue if FLS is truly, truly removed.

Also, there is only a single frame in that dump so I can't see what lead up to the crash other than FL Studio tried to access an invalid pointer. Either way from a command line (cmd.exe):

procdump.exe -e reaper.exe <path to dump> such as... procdump -3 reaper.exe c:\temp assuming c:\temp exists
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:53 AM   #16
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karbo... thanks so much... you are one fine friend...

here's the latest:

there is an online dmp reader service so I used that with the new dmp file which I finally did find... so guess what... it still showed the FL multi as the fault... damn

so I did a deep search and found and removed every trace of that shit I could find... and though I've not had probs with Image Line before now... I think I will just stay the hell away from them... don't really need it

so far, so good... open and closed reaper a few times OK...
I'll keep my fingers crossed and come back if it shows prob's again...

scary stuff since reaper is and has been such a steady rock for me.

btw, here is the online dmp site:

http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=Analyze
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
karbo... thanks so much... you are one fine friend...
We are all just taking care of each other (and friends)

Quote:
there is an online dmp reader service so I used that with the new dmp file which I finally did find... so guess what... it still showed the FL multi as the fault... damn
Well that's good to know, fingers crossed for you. I suspected it could still be FL but felt better to wait and see what we saw, good job on the OSR link. Something I found interesting as mentioned before is that VST is only 10 days old aka it's last update, you might check to see if there is a known issue or new update for it... or possibly revert to a previous version if possible. It's just a little too convenient to have this problem with a newly compiled version assuming you didn't begin seeing this until then.
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Old 07-17-2018, 12:27 PM   #18
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I agree it could be some issue with the new version and the date makes it totally suspect... but for now, rather than deal with those details, I'm just trashing the whole FLS stuff... it's an old thing that I virtually never use anymore

PS:

Ok so far so good.... whew.... that was getting to be a not fun experience.... got 5.93 in now and it seems like everyone is happy again.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:31 PM   #19
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Before you do, it would be worth going back to the old version and checking that all is still OK there.
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Old 07-17-2018, 01:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Before you do, it would be worth going back to the old version and checking that all is still OK there.

I did that before 5.93... and it was OK... thanks for the thought

If it had not been OK, I would not have gone to 5.93
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:09 PM   #21
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#$%%%$#^^%!

wrong... I'm f**king wrong.... I mean still getting crashes

and now I'm really confused because the .dmp file I put on the stash for karbo to see.... was created by task manager in a location of the app data folder...

but now on these last crashes, when task manager creates a dump file, it does so to a diff app data location and the files are considerably larger... too big for the stash even when zipped... arrrgh...

and they also seem too big for that online analyzer site....

no rhyme or reason I can see.... sometimes it will close fine, then do the same thing again, and it won't close and needs the hard boot...

making no sense to me.... I need a clue to start from
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:30 PM   #22
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Hey Hopi,

If the dump in the stash is what you uploaded for today's dump/crash, it's the exact same dump from Sunday...

Stash dump:

0:000> .time
Debug session time: Sun Jul 15 18:17:51.000 2018 (UTC - 4:00)
System Uptime: not available
Process Uptime: 0 days 0:00:14.000
Kernel time: 0 days 0:00:01.000
User time: 0 days 0:00:02.000


Sunday's dump:

Debug session time: Sun Jul 15 18:17:51.000 2018 (UTC - 4:00)
System Uptime: not available
Process Uptime: 0 days 0:00:14.000
Kernel time: 0 days 0:00:01.000
User time: 0 days 0:00:02.000


While I'm confident ^this crash is FL Studio, I'm not confident about what's going on since you removed it. It's also possible the dump you uploaded to the automatic-crash-dump-reviewer site got an old dump as well.

If not too much trouble download procdump from here.

-- Extract it to C:\Temp (create c:\temp folder if needed).
-- Launch Reaper but don't load the project yet
-- In the windows search bar type cmd and you should see "cmd.exe" or "Command Prompt" in the results, right-click that and choose "run as administrator":



-- When the black window pops up type the following and click enter: C:\temp\procdump -e reaper.exe
-- If you completed the steps properly you should see a screen that looks like this:



At this point you can minimize that window then load your project and do your thing until it crashes. When it does crash procdump should see it and create a dump right there in the C:\Temp folder.

Let me know!
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Old 07-17-2018, 07:48 PM   #23
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karbo... oh great and thanks so much...

you instructions are perfect, ...but a note... it puts the dmp files in windows\system32 but at least is tells me where they have been written...

atm Murphy's law has kicked in... I got one crash from a plugin synth but it was not the kind of crash we are after... I mean reaper was able to quit from the normal crash dialog... and then upon running it all again with the same plugin, even on dupe tracks... it all worked fine and with no reported exceptions...

so, so far Murphy is in charge and I'm not getting those crashes...[hahaha should I say "damn, no crashes"]

but thanks to you now I have a way to keep trying it and eventually it will happen...

but let me ask you one thing:
procdump also has procdump64
should I actually run that from the cmd? I am all 64 bit on Win7 and Reaper...
I figure I could just change the line entered into cmd, ...right?
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post

but let me ask you one thing:
procdump also has procdump64
should I actually run that from the cmd? I am all 64 bit on Win7 and Reaper...
I figure I could just change the line entered into cmd, ...right?
Hi Hopi, No, procdump is aware of the bitness of the OS and it will execute procdump64 as needed. Now, you could run it directly and it would work but you don't need to.
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Old 07-17-2018, 08:23 PM   #25
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ah I see... very smart exe then... kewl

now all need is crashes... OMG... what have I said.

it's so strange that before proc and cmd running... I could count on doing a few things and get that hard reboot crash... and now I have not had one
in ten reaper launches...
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:23 PM   #26
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OK guys... I've got to put a temp hold on this event since I have to go out of town for a couple weeks... but I'll get back on it upon returning...

'till then... many, many thanks for your kind help!
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:25 PM   #27
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OK guys... I've got to put a temp hold on this event since I have to go out of town for a couple weeks... but I'll get back on it upon returning...

'till then... many, many thanks for your kind help!
Drive, fly, walk, ride, run, cartwheel safely!
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:48 PM   #28
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Following to see how this turns out and use similar troubleshooting steps for my issue discussed in another thread.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:13 AM   #29
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OK guys... I've got to put a temp hold on this event since I have to go out of town for a couple weeks... but I'll get back on it upon returning...

'till then... many, many thanks for your kind help!
Sheriff after you, again?
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:35 AM   #30
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Sheriff after you, again?
no DS... it's the russians... LoL

actually it's my small window to get up to where I go sailing...
something I'd rather do than most anything else and never get enough of it per year...

heading out tomorrow AM.. packing it up as I type...
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
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It has now happened 3 times... and is very disturbing

win7 64 pro reaper 5.92 64 portable install

I have been testing some sfz stuff with sforzando 64 bit vsti

and every few times reaper will not close and even task manager and end process tree will not get rid of it...

only a hard system reboot will do it....

never had prob's like this with reaper before so...

any ideas???
I have this happen regularly. It's been doing this to me for years. I'm glad it occurs on somebody else's machine, too. My crashes often involve projects that use Kontakt, but I have no proof that is the only thing that the crashes have in common.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:12 PM   #32
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Tyran... look in post #22 and follow out what Karbo has given ... maybe you will get something that will help...

and then use the dmp file analyzer online that is here:

http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=Analyze

an plz do let us know what you find.... I'll be back in awhile
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Tyran... look in post #22 and follow out what Karbo has given ... maybe you will get something that will help...

and then use the dmp file analyzer online that is here:

http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=Analyze

an plz do let us know what you find.... I'll be back in awhile
Good plan. I'll grab that tomorrow. Thanks.
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:05 AM   #34
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I just wanted to say a huge "THANK YOU!" to karbomusic for his #22 guide and hopi for the online analyzer link.

I think they should probably go into the "Troubleshooting FAQ".

With this technique I eventually found a problem that's been haunting me for weeks. It still wasn't entirely straight forward because it seems that for some reason a fault reported in one dll apparently can be caused by another.

In my case:
- I created a dmp as per the instructions, uploaded it to this analyzer and it said my Ozone8 vst was playing up (can't remember the excact wording and didn't save it, unfortunately). So I though "Great, that's the problem!" and took it out. However, the project was still crashing.
- So I did the same thing again and this time it was complaining about "bx_shredspread", so I took it out as well
- This game continued for two more rounds, flagging a different dll every time.
- Ultimately the analysis report read differently when it came to my WoS plugin. I took that out and the crashing stopped. So I stuck all the other plugins back in and still no crashes. Yay!

Now, I'm not 100% sure it was the WoS plugin, since my crashes weren't always reproducible and only happened every hour or so. So, maybe I'm just lucky, but so far so good. I sent a report to two-notes, I hope they can confirm and fix it.

- As a side note, I'd like to mention that the Slate plugins (VTM and VMR in my case) recognize that there is a "debugger" running and refuse to load. I found this quite funny. But since I suspected them a potential cause of the problem, I didn't mind them not loading.

Sorry for the long text, but again, I want to thank you for your instructions and encourage people to try. It might not be a straight process, but it looks like it gets you there eventually.

Have a great weekend everybody!
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:44 AM   #35
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Since I started running procdump Reaper hasn't crashed, LOL.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:59 AM   #36
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Quote:
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Since I started running procdump Reaper hasn't crashed, LOL.
It's possible that having procdump attached slows code execution just enough that the condition that causes the crash ends up not occurring such as preventing a race condition. We can't be sure unless detaching procdump causes the exact same project (that wasn't crashing with it attached) to suddenly begin crashing - where attaching it again makes the crash stop occuring.

It is possible to make procdump the default system debugger, meaning doesn't need to be attached but will be invoked by the OS when a crash occurs by running procdump -i. That 'may' get around this, if 'this' is occurring. For example the following command should set this up with any dumps going to the path in the command without having to attach procdump to reaper directly:

procdump -i c:\temp

There is a slight chance however that additional OS debug options need to be set but it might work as is.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:04 AM   #37
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I'm pretty sure sure it'll crash when it's ready. It goes through periods like this where everything is so stable that I forget there was ever a problem. I have noticed that the really bad crashes seem to come when I am trying things I don't normally do, and right now I am working on a pretty standard project with nothing new in it.
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:44 AM   #38
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Hello again... OK I'm back in town after a week away...

Just ran reaper again, and first time it closed normally... all good
then did it again... virtually doing the same stuff...
simple project with only two tracks and got the lock up that I can't resolve with anything but the forced reboot...

but did get this report out of it this time:

Description:
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: reaper.exe
Application Version: 5.9.3.11
Application Timestamp: 5b4f75ab
Hang Signature: 4b46
Hang Type: 0
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Hang Signature 1: 4b4693f3233418b2d460e00afbf8a2c3
Additional Hang Signature 2: 52f2
Additional Hang Signature 3: 52f2573b4ef588725798ab1139e519ae
Additional Hang Signature 4: 4b46
Additional Hang Signature 5: 4b4693f3233418b2d460e00afbf8a2c3
Additional Hang Signature 6: 52f2
Additional Hang Signature 7: 52f2573b4ef588725798ab1139e519ae

**********************

any ideas???
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:05 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It's possible that having procdump attached slows code execution just enough that the condition that causes the crash ends up not occurring such as preventing a race condition. We can't be sure unless detaching procdump causes the exact same project (that wasn't crashing with it attached) to suddenly begin crashing - where attaching it again makes the crash stop occuring.

It is possible to make procdump the default system debugger, meaning doesn't need to be attached but will be invoked by the OS when a crash occurs by running procdump -i. That 'may' get around this, if 'this' is occurring. For example the following command should set this up with any dumps going to the path in the command without having to attach procdump to reaper directly:

procdump -i c:\temp

There is a slight chance however that additional OS debug options need to be set but it might work as is.
Karbo... this seems like a good idea... but I'd like some hand holding in how to set it up exactly so that it creates the dmp files for any crash or hang
so if you have the time plz tell
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:27 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
Just ran reaper again, and first time it closed normally... all good
^This is something that has bugged me since the first post. Do you have the following option enabled? If not it may help...

Under Prefs > Plugins > VST: "Allow complete unload of VST plugins"

I "think" that is the setting I'm thinking of but could be wrong. Let me explain, a very long time ago, every so often, when I unloaded a project (in order to load a new one) or closed reaper (which causes the current project to unload) it would crash, not always but from time to time. Justin or someone suggested enabling that setting and I haven't had a crash on unload since.

This may not be your issue but I wanted to mention based on the wording of your reply - if not set, I think it's worth trying if we don't know which VST is not playing nicely.

Regarding this...


Quote:
Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: reaper.exe
Application Version: 5.9.3.11
Application Timestamp: 5b4f75ab
Hang Signature: 4b46
Hang Type: 0
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Hang Signature 1: 4b4693f3233418b2d460e00afbf8a2c3
Additional Hang Signature 2: 52f2
Additional Hang Signature 3: 52f2573b4ef588725798ab1139e519ae
Additional Hang Signature 4: 4b46
Additional Hang Signature 5: 4b4693f3233418b2d460e00afbf8a2c3
Additional Hang Signature 6: 52f2
Additional Hang Signature 7: 52f2573b4ef588725798ab1139e519ae
I think it is literally not responding when windows asks, could be a deadlock or other issue, could also still be related to what I typed above but no way to know. Justin may be able to tell from the data there but I can't just from that info, I can only guess. It's as mentioned a hang and probably more involved to get a dump during the hang than an actual crash - eventually windows or the user may kill it but that is really a manual termination that looks like a crash so unhelpful.

Quote:
Karbo... this seems like a good idea... but I'd like some hand holding in how to set it up exactly so that it creates the dmp files for any crash or hang
so if you have the time plz tell
It really is as easy as that one command: procdump -i c:\temp

^With the assumption you've already created c:\temp - and running cmd.exe as administrator aka right-click runas administrator.
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