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Old 09-07-2012, 05:48 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
The idea that that's way to do things is sort of a new idea. In the past, a home studio was complex and so costly that you had to have some real money and even so couldn't really hope to afford all the gear needed to rival a professional studio, and there was a general understanding that recording was a job for professionals just stemming from the fact that all recording was done at major studios.

So people that had home studios were more likely to have some experience writing music and being out in a music scene, and possibly recording in a professional studio, and they were more likely to have reduced expectations for their studio.

Now a lot of people just starting out simply think, "Why should I go to a studio when I can do it myself?" And then they slog headlong into stuff like trying to get decent monitors for $500, sussing out acoustics issues, getting vocals to sound "warm," trying to record drums in a 10X10 room, and so on.

And when it comes to the music, the computer becomes a crutch and takes the place of learning your craft. You don't have to learn rhythm when you can just correct everything. You also don't have to learn how to sing when you have autotune and melodyne. The problem with that is that these skills amount to more than just being able to record without editing; it's evolving this stuff that makes you able to make better music. You develop a sense of groove, your musical ear, and your musical personality. You don't sit down with an instrument and concentrate on what is actually important; the notes, the flow of the song, the arrangement. You don't move towards that place where you have enough proficiency to speak through your music. You just come up with a cool riff and then run to your computer and think, "I'll try that awesome new modeled delay, and maybe some extra saturation to really make that pop," (even though you can't really hear the saturation) and "what massive bass patch is going to work with this." And then you are just sitting in front of the glowing screen, listening to the same 8 bars over and over again until you've heard it so many times it's meaningless to you, just like saying a word too many times, pushing faders around, adding plugins, copying and pasting, and rearranging until you get tired enough to leave it there. Then you come back the next day and hear it fresh and maybe adding something cool, then sink into the same state.

But don't get me wrong, I love the home recording revolution, and that doesn't happen to everyone of course, it is a kind of inverse ideal of how bad things could be, and it will all happen less and less as the "industry" matures and more information and a more productive discussion thrives online. There are new instructional videos popping up on youtube everyday, plenty of pros are getting in on that, and there are more and more people who are talking from whom newbies can learn what it is they should expect, what they need to learn, and where they need to concentrate their efforts and funds. People are learning how to make it work. And I expect that we will get to hear a lot of great music from now on that would never have seen the light of day before. There is the idea that we aren't really gaining anything because anyone who is really good enough could get picked up by a label, but I think that that doesn't take into account that artists need to be grown, and one can get alot of experience from recording themselves and releasing their own album that they couldn't get otherwise, and the fact that music is a cultural discussion and everyone influences everyone else, and when everyone can speak freely I think it will be easier for sounds to grow.
I see your point; nobody probably ever thought they were going to record the next epic album on their 4-track cassette. True. But anyone who thinks that buying a DAW and an interface or even a whole mess of gear will do that without any experience or know how is just as fooling themselves.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:55 AM   #42
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...I should add that I've not performed in a band since the 70s.
I'm strictly a "one man band" and never play live at all.

Jedi

If you didn't have a studio, you'd end up doing nothing at all...

>
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:24 AM   #43
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If the song ain't in your head, no DAW or home studio, no matter how simple or complex, is going to help that.

Good point, you can't write a book if you don't know what the story is about.
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Old 09-08-2012, 09:32 AM   #44
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I think the word 'changing' would be more accurate than killing by a long shot.

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:19 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by lboorse2 View Post
If the song ain't in your head, no DAW or home studio, no matter how simple or complex, is going to help that.
I disagree. Yeah, having a studio is very useful for working out arrangements to songs you already have. But it's also great for noodling about with ideas and seeing where they go. There's tons of stuff I've just messed about with in my DAW, have set aside, and that have later become important parts in other songs. A bunch of my songs never would have been as good as they are if it wasn't for having the luxury of a DAW. Some songs come in a flash of inspiration, and others need a lot of work.

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Good point, you can't write a book if you don't know what the story is about.
Again, respectfully disagree. All the writing teachers I've had have said the same thing; if you know the ending, you're writing the wrong story. Stories should be acts of personal discovery. You can have the germ of an idea, but if you're writing just to fill in the stuff before you get to the ending then what's the point? You'll be bored writing it. The best way to write a story is to have two or three characters, give them personalities, and see how it plays out. Lots of times it won't work, but sometimes you'll get it right. The longer you're at it the better you'll get at knowing what combinations of personalities will give the best results.

The same goes for songs. It's tough to write a good song. Lots of false starts and stuff that just doesn't work. And what songs have you written that have been the same when they're finished as they were when you first had the idea for them?
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:07 AM   #46
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If you didn't have a studio, you'd end up doing nothing at all...

>
Absolutely!! That's the beauty of it. I've had 20 years of
writing/recording and all the songs I've written I can play
any time I want.

If I never had a studio, I most likely wouldn't even know
how to play a single song - probably wouldn't even own a
guitar anymore.

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Old 09-08-2012, 11:48 AM   #47
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Ever since I bought that damned car all I want to do is stay home...
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:16 PM   #48
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I think (in some cases) there's a distinct difference between a decent useful personal recording rig and a home studio. I'm not sure that every den with a MBox and a few mics actually should be defined as a home studio.

The relative distractions that may happen for some is when "personal music rigs" start to take on a life of their own, gear (and the relative complexity of it all) starts stacking up, maybe beyond musical necessity. Where the regular idea of yet another new gadget or plug or a new tool to fix something or other takes precedence over composing and arranging and practicing.

I actually don't believe that the majority are distracted by that stuff at all, but some are. I also think it's much less a distraction for musicians who regularly perform live like JBM than it is for some decent players who really only make music when their DAW is running now, and rarely actually play with other musicians.

Anyway, some of the questions I'd ask is...

1. If your DAW is running and you're in the habit of recording all your new ideas and it all crashes do you spend 30-45 minutes troubleshooting the DAW or do you just say "f-it for now" and just keep strumming your acoustic guitar and singing to fully develop the new idea before it escapes you?

2. How often do you sit at the piano or grab your guitar and completely (fully) work through a full new song and lyrics and melody and all that before you even fire up the digital tools?

3. Do you punch a lot of musical parts just because you know you can and because it's easier than taking the time to practice the part so you can play it all the way through without error?

4. Can you play - live with a band tomorrow - all of your own songs without mistakes? Do you remember all the chord progressions and all that?

It was sometimes puzzling to me to have people show up to record a song only to find out they haven't even really finished writing the song yet. In those cases "recording" took way too much precedence over song writing. Hearing yourself on CD or whatever is a very enticing thing.

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Old 09-08-2012, 12:47 PM   #49
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You need to treat the Muse like she's your lady. If you spend all your time wanking off over pictures of preamps in the Sweetwater Sound catalog you are going to find yourself all alone. It's perfectly fine to look and it's fine to flirt... but don't neglect what is really important.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:51 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
if you can't deal with the technology, you end up blaming it.

if you don't have the wherewithal to understand the type of tool you have in front of you, you will accuse it.

have some self control, get busy, learn a workflow. It's all the same thing, and im sure back in the day people were saying similar things about tape.

My productivity has been on an increase, first since having digital recording, second from breaking the shackles of religion. But then again, I was only recording on karaoke machines before then. Digital has been the best thing that has happened to me.
I agree. This guy sounds bitter for having his own career ruined by his inability or bad decisions and blames the tech for it.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:06 PM   #51
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Writing a song from start to finish is an important part of the equation. Producing the song for consumption is another part.

Both are disciplines that require focus and drive. Both require a learning curve. Both have many sub-disciplines which need to be learned along the way.

Trying to do all these different tasks, without some type of focus, is a sure fire way to just get so bogged down in the details, that no finished product ever emerges.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:25 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Anyway, some of the questions I'd ask is...
Good questions Lawrence! Here's my answers:

Quote:
1. If your DAW is running and you're in the habit of recording all your new ideas and it all crashes do you spend 30-45 minutes troubleshooting the DAW or do you just say "f-it for now" and just keep strumming your acoustic guitar and singing to fully develop the new idea before it escapes you?
I've only had one or two crashes while actually tracking in the 2 years I've been up
and running. Both times it involved EZD - but the song itself
was all written, so I just dicked around until EZD worked again.

Quote:
2. How often do you sit at the piano or grab your guitar and completely (fully) work through a full new song and lyrics and melody and all that before you even fire up the digital tools?
3 weeks ago, I basically wrote a 12 song album sitting on my
balcony on a cruise ship, guitar in hand. I worked out all
the BASIC guitar parts, noting chords and lyrics in a notebook
as I went along. All the FINER parts (lead solos, keys, drums,
pads & fills, etc.) I work out in the studio.

Quote:
3. Do you punch a lot of musical parts just because you know you can and because it's easier than taking the time to practice the part so you can play it all the way through without error?
Personally, I don't believe in "Punch-ins" - I'm not even sure
how to do it in REAPER and never have tried. I believe in
practicing a part over and over, and tracking a "perfect take"
I don't do "takes" either - if it's not what I want, I delete
the WAV and give it another go. Yes, this sometimes results in
a "compromise lead solo" or keyboard part - I could probably
make them more complex by punching or comping takes, where I
could just focus on one short complex bit. But that's not
my style. Too many years of analog studio work where I didn't
have a punch-in foot pedal for my deck!

Quote:
4. Can you play - live with a band tomorrow - all of your own songs without mistakes? Do you remember all the chord progressions and all that?
Yes - but obviously I'd have to seriously PRACTICE with the
band first - I haven't played in a band in 30 years. But
yes, I do know all the parts to all of my songs.

Quote:
It was sometimes puzzling to me to have people show up to record a song only to find out they haven't even really finished writing the song yet.
True - but if the studio is selling time by the hour, bring it on!



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Old 09-08-2012, 01:31 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by dea-man View Post
Writing a song from start to finish is an important part of the equation. Producing the song for consumption is another part.

Both are disciplines that require focus and drive. Both require a learning curve. Both have many sub-disciplines which need to be learned along the way.

Trying to do all these different tasks, without some type of focus, is a sure fire way to just get so bogged down in the details, that no finished product ever emerges.
Very true, I agree. All you gotta do is go to Bandcamp or similar and you'll find a very large collection of examples. Good guitar players with very little lyrical or arrangement skills. Decent songs that don't have much emotional impact at all. Very good singers with relatively uninteresting songs... because they'd rather sing their own songs than someone else's better songs.

There's the occasional gem but the "do it all by themselves guys" aren't generally producing great music. The few who are seem to be the exception. Not saying it's bad music, just nothing much all that memorable.

I mean, guys like Prince are the exception, not the rule... so the do it all yourself (lyrics, playing, producing, arranging) thing takes a relative ton of talent before you even get to the engineering part.

Anyone with a modern DAW can write a song. Not anyone can write a great song... on the contrary, they're quite rare.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:35 PM   #54
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Not everyone writes songs to impress or appeal to other people.
Some of us "do it all" folks write and record songs simply for
our own pleasure or for a particular friend of family member.

I fully know that I'm not anything great in the slightest

I just enjoy the process of expression via music.

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Old 09-08-2012, 01:41 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Not everyone writes songs to impress or appeal to other people.
Some of us "do it all" folks write and record songs simply for
our own pleasure or for a particular friend of family member.

I fully know that I'm not anything great in the slightest

I just enjoy the process of expression via music.

Jedi

Right, I actually didn't mean it that way.

I only meant that - some - people actually may have some really, really great songs in them... if they spend a bit more time on the "writing" (composing) part, and a bit less time on the recording and mixing part.

Nothing to do with impressing people or anything like that. It has to do with doing one thing exceptionally well (or trying to), vs. doing 4 things kinda well.

Songs (with lyrics anyway) - at their root - are stories and the net is chock full of decently mixed home studio songs with pretty uninteresting stories. There's a reason acting schools make people dig deep into their emotions, often uncomfortably so, because that's where art kinda comes from. Stuff I hear on the net (90% of it) is just walking through the steps, following a script, very little emotion at all.

Last edited by Lawrence; 09-08-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:44 PM   #56
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I fully know that I'm not anything great in the slightest

I just enjoy the process of expression via music.

Jedi

Nonsense. Be great in expressing yourself!
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #57
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Nonsense. Be great in expressing yourself!
I stand corrected - thank you

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Old 09-08-2012, 03:08 PM   #58
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1) The observation that many or most home studios will fail to result in the creation of great music is no doubt true, but this doesn't imply cause and effect. Rather, it would be a natural consequence of any technological innovation that takes something (very high quality audio recording) that was once accessible to a relative few and makes it universally available. It removes a potential barrier for the creative artist, but it also seriously dilutes the talent pool when trying to assess whether home studios are valuable for musicians. If you took the medical tools currently available in cancer research labs and made cheap, prosumer versions for the "home researcher", it's doubtful that the War Against Cancer would become exponentially more successful. But it doesn't mean that any individual amateur home scientist couldn't discover something valuable. The tools do not in themselves inhibit that.
This exact thing happens in many industries. When it allowed complete amatuers in charge of the real estate, stock market and financing it plunged the world into our current recession
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:16 PM   #59
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I only meant that - some - people actually may have some really, really great songs in them... if they spend a bit more time on the "writing" (composing) part, and a bit less time on the recording and mixing part.
Let me follow up with a big ole "Damn tootin". That southern for hell yes. Two things.... A great way to excersize this particular muscle is to record one's tracks and completely finish the song without touching a single VST no matter how tempted. Just simple level adjustments and maybe panning, nothing else. Attempt to create a finsihed mixed product with only levels and panning. Sound like shit? Maybe it was captured shittily? Maybe it needs writing attention and isn't really done yet. I guarantee this will improve one's recordings ten fold IF they have the patience to do so. Then go back and really mix using all the tools in the DAW tool chest. How many you pull up the VST list the moment you have tracks to playback?

Secondly, my studio is my main writing tool. I tend to compose via stream of conciousness. My very best stuff, how good that is is relative is done that way. I spent years building my stuido with the following requirement: Be able to be laying a track in within 60 seconds of the inspiration. I also tend to just "run tape" and improvise as it flows w/no previous idea and just record what comes out without knowing what comes next. I then go back and find the golden nuggets and create songs. Its as if someone else wrote them sometimes because I made no real concious decision as it was streaming out of me and tends to sound less contrived.

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Old 09-08-2012, 05:41 PM   #60
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Hummm.

I guess that home recording has the distinct problem of needing something to be recorded in your home to begin with.

Who would guess that?
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:34 PM   #61
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Home studio producers may find it hard to stop with just six instruments

percussion
keys
guitar
bass
melodic instrument of choice
vocal

After that, the chances of creating sonic sludge, rise exponentially.
The instruments, whether physical, or virtual, are innocent.

Even if one were gifted at mixing and mastering, how easy to become
isolated from the time tested opinions and advice normally given by
real or professional studio employee feedback, and then the
isolated ego can commit a thousand musical sins, and pat itself warmly on it's own back, with CD releases that are like 'participation trophies', instead of unique and interesting works of sonic art, that would bless the listener.

These difficulties can be acknowledged and conquered,
and the results, or lack of them, will vary wildly between people of differing skills and work ethic.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:08 PM   #62
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Again, respectfully disagree. All the writing teachers I've had have said the same thing; if you know the ending, you're writing the wrong story. Stories should be acts of personal discovery. You can have the germ of an idea, but if you're writing just to fill in the stuff before you get to the ending then what's the point? You'll be bored writing it. The best way to write a story is to have two or three characters, give them personalities, and see how it plays out. Lots of times it won't work, but sometimes you'll get it right. The longer you're at it the better you'll get at knowing what combinations of personalities will give the best results.

The same goes for songs. It's tough to write a good song. Lots of false starts and stuff that just doesn't work. And what songs have you written that have been the same when they're finished as they were when you first had the idea for them?

I don't think i would ever write a story that way. story or movie or what have you, and even a song, lyrics wise, for me, needs to start off wit ha main core concept.

in songwriting it could be a hook. a hook with an idea surrounding it, and ya, some things may develop after that one main idea, but i would need to go with that.

i could see how someone could write a book that's sort of very basic in concept at first, such as, idk, some main characters, and a main idea of what the plot might be, and no more precision than that, but for me, if i were to write a book, it would need to have lots of meaning, a big main core message, with a meaningful ending, so i would need to have the main overall concept, and know the very ending. the beginning and the pieces in the middle i could workout no problem after that, but the main idea, and the ending, i would need to know first.

alot of movies, the ending is the cool part. a sort of twist, or what have you. that's the main hook of the movie. i think they must start with the ending. i would. so although there is merit to the artistic style of just going and winging it and growing stuff as you go, and i know lots of creative things, and not just details, can come from just going, unplanned things. lots of those in art. but i don't think it is fair to say as your teacher said, that "if you know the ending, you're writing the wrong story." i think that often times, if you know the ending, then you're writing some kick ass story.

all sorts of approaches i find work in art, and some approaches lend themselves for different sorts of results as compared to others. for example, in lord of the rings, i wouldn't expect the ending was fleshed out until it was written. maybe he knew that the ring would be destroyed, i think that's quite likely. but i would be surprised if he had planned it out in more detail than that. but hey, you never know i guess.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:09 PM   #63
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How many you pull up the VST list the moment you have tracks to playback?
Guilty! LOL

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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Attempt to create a finished mixed product with only levels and panning. Sound like shit? Maybe it was captured shittily? Maybe it needs writing attention and isn't really done yet.
For a lot of my recording life, I didn't really have a clue, as far as mixing, so this was about the extent of it for me. Every time I touched a compressor, or an eq I just made everything sound worse. So, if things were clashing in the mix, instead of futzing with an eq, I'd go back and change one of the parts and if I needed compression, I'd edit the levels by hand. Then, I learned how to use eq's and compressors and now I find myself guilty of the first quote.
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:26 PM   #64
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I think (in some cases) there's a distinct difference between a decent useful personal recording rig and a home studio. I'm not sure that every den with a MBox and a few mics actually should be defined as a home studio.

The relative distractions that may happen for some is when "personal music rigs" start to take on a life of their own, gear (and the relative complexity of it all) starts stacking up, maybe beyond musical necessity. Where the regular idea of yet another new gadget or plug or a new tool to fix something or other takes precedence over composing and arranging and practicing.

I actually don't believe that the majority are distracted by that stuff at all, but some are. I also think it's much less a distraction for musicians who regularly perform live like JBM than it is for some decent players who really only make music when their DAW is running now, and rarely actually play with other musicians.

Anyway, some of the questions I'd ask is...

1. If your DAW is running and you're in the habit of recording all your new ideas and it all crashes do you spend 30-45 minutes troubleshooting the DAW or do you just say "f-it for now" and just keep strumming your acoustic guitar and singing to fully develop the new idea before it escapes you?

2. How often do you sit at the piano or grab your guitar and completely (fully) work through a full new song and lyrics and melody and all that before you even fire up the digital tools?

3. Do you punch a lot of musical parts just because you know you can and because it's easier than taking the time to practice the part so you can play it all the way through without error?

4. Can you play - live with a band tomorrow - all of your own songs without mistakes? Do you remember all the chord progressions and all that?

It was sometimes puzzling to me to have people show up to record a song only to find out they haven't even really finished writing the song yet. In those cases "recording" took way too much precedence over song writing. Hearing yourself on CD or whatever is a very enticing thing.
1. priority 1. record it. reboot computer quickly, record on phone. then maybe record on computer afterwards. i haaaaaate losing an idea i had. i actually usually won't even bother opening up the DAW because that might take too much time, or i might get distracted too easily with something. i tend to go straight for the phone first. open it, record it. saved.

2. depends on style of music. a DAW sometimes is the instrument i start with to write a song. if i don't start with a DAW and write with the DAW, then it is fully created with an instrument before recording, but i record in steps on my phone sometimes, if i do melody first, or to listen back to parts i've done as i'm doing it. depends. i do a lot of different shit at different times. but most times, out of my songs, they were first fully written defore going into my DAW to record, unless my DAW was a bits and peaces recording. i actuallly even have a folder called "beats and pieces" for that exact reason.

3. yes, with vocals then i listen back to learn the vocals again. i still will with vocals. when i record with a click track i do a lot of punching, i record in sections, my aim is to make it very good. i can always play everything i write first. sometimes i write for an instrument something out of my ability, but i will always learn it fully. i would never write something, and then record something, that i can't play. but usually learning something doesn't take me very long anyways.

4. for sure not all my songs. there are songs i've forgotten even exist. but a full set, i think by tomorrow i probably could. tomorrow late, if i practiced most of the day. there are lyrics and things i would forget, bridges i would not remember. a bunch of stuff like that. i have a bunch of instrumentals as well that would be much easier for me to just play, but not so much with a band maybe. it's more the sort of thing where i'd want to be a lone. i usually don't play those tunes the same way twice.

i've written many bridges when i go to record. but usually first i write chorus, then verses, and then maybe bridge, maybe bridge later, idk the bridge is different.

but idk, a daw can be an instrument, and it can be a recording machine, and all shades in between.

but it can't really be a good performing machine imo. or, maybe for some people, i don't really know how they do it, but definitely not for me.

instrument to write, or instrument to capture and create polished version of something that exists.

the original premise of the thread though, is that it takes away from performing. not writing songs, or creating music, or recording music. performing.
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:29 AM   #65
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Home studio producers may find it hard to stop with just six instruments

percussion
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guitar
bass
melodic instrument of choice
vocal
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THIS!!!!!

I always record with an imaginary "band".
Keeps everything to the point and you do wind up with a more consistent sound, which to me is one of the key element of getting comfortable with who or what you are musically.

Just wish I could play a couple of [brass instruments well enough not to rely on samples for the nice little stabs etc.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:16 AM   #66
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THIS!!!!!

I always record with an imaginary "band".
Keeps everything to the point and you do wind up with a more consistent sound, which to me is one of the key element of getting comfortable with who or what you are musically.

Just wish I could play a couple of [brass instruments well enough not to rely on samples for the nice little stabs etc.
for just stabs, all the brass instruments are easy enough to play. the trumpet is the most tough because it is so high pitch. learning which notes you need to hit might take a reference card, or some trial and error, but to me, the hard part about stabs for brass would be affording the brass and being some place where you could blast away on them.

i agree with your sentiment though. for me, i won't record with any bass really for right now, because my bass is shit. that's next on my list of instruments to buy. so i keep it simple. guitar, voices, and drums. that's it. and it's faster too.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #67
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I disagree. Yeah, having a studio is very useful for working out arrangements to songs you already have. But it's also great for noodling about with ideas and seeing where they go. There's tons of stuff I've just messed about with in my DAW, have set aside, and that have later become important parts in other songs. A bunch of my songs never would have been as good as they are if it wasn't for having the luxury of a DAW. Some songs come in a flash of inspiration, and others need a lot of work.



Again, respectfully disagree. All the writing teachers I've had have said the same thing; if you know the ending, you're writing the wrong story. Stories should be acts of personal discovery. You can have the germ of an idea, but if you're writing just to fill in the stuff before you get to the ending then what's the point? You'll be bored writing it. The best way to write a story is to have two or three characters, give them personalities, and see how it plays out. Lots of times it won't work, but sometimes you'll get it right. The longer you're at it the better you'll get at knowing what combinations of personalities will give the best results.

The same goes for songs. It's tough to write a good song. Lots of false starts and stuff that just doesn't work. And what songs have you written that have been the same when they're finished as they were when you first had the idea for them?
There are good writers and bad writers. Imagine if someone as creative as Steven King wrote music.
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Old 09-09-2012, 11:54 AM   #68
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alot of movies, the ending is the cool part. a sort of twist, or what have you. that's the main hook of the movie. i think they must start with the ending.
I agree, and spend the rest of the movie, or song, and find the best way to lead up to the ending.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #69
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Interesting point of view by Ronan there.
I see his point..
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:57 PM   #70
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Default Different strokes, for different folks.....

Different people have different ways of working from which they draw inspiration.

I can "learn" (discover?) a lot AND have a lot of "fun" just fiddling around and recording random stuff, with and without VST, trying out different combinations of instruments and effects, and just have a really great time doing so.

On the other hand, when it's time to "produce" a song, that is a different situation for me.

I like to have a finished composition, and to record without the final effects in place. I may try effects out, and at times the effect may be part of the sound, but in my computer DAW world, there is no reason to commit, and I like all my possibilities open, as long as needed.

I love to capture a "performance" first. Mixing comes later.

I guess it all depends on the personal musical history you came from.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:47 PM   #71
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I can "learn" (discover?) a lot AND have a lot of "fun" just fiddling around and recording random stuff, with and without VST, trying out different combinations of instruments and effects, and just have a really great time doing so.

On the other hand, when it's time to "produce" a song, that is a different situation for me.

I like to have a finished composition, and to record without the final effects in place.
Ah... Let me clear up my original post... Pressing record and improvising is one of my writing tools which is a completely different activity than taking what I wrote then producing/recording it. I have a project I do the writing in and then a project that I do the real deal. There are exceptions though, sometimes the first take improved with a mistake is better than 3 weeks later and rehearsed so the orignal project is "the one". That's why I mentioned it, there are many DAW activities where the record button is involved that lend to the final product but not the same RPP.

These days I can't find many reasons to not hit record when I'm composing as it captures everything I did. I use Reaper as a musical notepad constantly.
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:00 PM   #72
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These days I can't find many reasons to not hit record when I'm composing as it captures everything I did. I use Reaper as a musical notepad constantly.
Yes, I see total merit in that!
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:15 PM   #73
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Yes, I see total merit in that!
Especially with my memory lately.
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:23 PM   #74
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Default LOL...

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Especially with my memory lately.
...I hear you there.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:49 PM   #75
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Don't spend money you don't have. There. I fixed the problem.
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Old 09-10-2012, 12:53 AM   #76
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Don't spend money you don't have. There. I fixed the problem.

Give this man the Nobel for talking sense!
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:22 AM   #77
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Don't spend money you don't have. There. I fixed the problem.
It is good advice, but how does it relate to the thread topic? Did I miss something along the way?
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Old 09-10-2012, 09:53 AM   #78
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Default methods matter, eh?

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Ah... Let me clear up my original post...
These days I can't find many reasons to not hit record when I'm composing as it captures everything I did. I use Reaper as a musical notepad constantly.
Don't writers edit as they write, so that they think a lot more than what gets written? Sure. Similarly, don't composers check and improve as they go so that not all that is played gets recorded?

I suspect that karbomusic differs from me (in more ways than one) in that he is recording MORE at earlier stages, while I don't even record until a song is rather fully formed.

That is a significant difference between ways of working and it probably has a significant historical pattern. Younger and more DAW-oriented musicians will hit the RECORD button earlier than older and composition-oriented folks.

In writing, that eagerness to capture words flowing through the mind is referred to as "stream of consciousness" writing. And it is very different - both in method and result - from the way most writer write.

So this begs the question - in reference to the original post - WHAT is the likely effect of doing more stream of consciousness recording (as KB describes)?
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:15 AM   #79
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That is a significant difference between ways of working and it probably has a significant historical pattern. Younger and more DAW-oriented musicians will hit the RECORD button earlier than older and composition-oriented folks.

Obviously no one got my post at all. I'm 49 and I grew tired of writing down arrangments and ideas like I did the previous 25 years when I can simply document them as they happen these days. Sometimes I write a whole song all by myself just on acoustic or in my head riding down the road but that isn't the point, there should be no dividing line or grouping of the possible ways of working.

I "compose" as much as most here but when one composes, they must actually imagine (by either playing or writing down) what it is they want to compose. I simply hit record when doing so as it is the ultimate documented record of everything my brain was composing which also tends to document things you thought sounded bad when trying it out but really weren't. I see no difference between this and leaving a small recorder on one's nightstand.

Lastly, including improvisation (AKA "I don't know what is going to come out next") as one of the many compositional tools removes one from their own normally contrived conciousness. I highly recommend giving it a shot as it brings out a freshness not found in purley intentional writing. Then again not everyone can improvise, to each his own, Reaper can handle all of them.

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Old 09-10-2012, 10:18 AM   #80
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KB, I think I did understand what you said, and I respect it as a method. But there are methods that predate the DAW tool, and there are methods that are encouraged by the DAW tool, right?
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