Looking for pro sounding mixers willing to work cheap

Omni · 05-17-2010, 11:45 AM

DISCLAIMER:
I'm in no way attempting to state your time is worthless and that you don't deserve to get paid well for your work- I'm just working within my current limitations and hoping that some people may step forward because they like the music and like to mix enough to help us out.

That said:
So my band Of Former Fame has just been offered a potential Indie label contract. We would keep the rights to the music and they just want to distribute it. They'd like to use our current EP. Now, a few of the songs on this EP are mixed pretty well. Three were done by Glenn Delaune through the Line6 forum and the rest by me. The ones by me are really hit and miss. So I'm considering having a few or perhaps all of the other tunes remixed by someone else-maybe all 7 for a homogonous sound.

Because of the arrangement with the label, this will be out of my pocket still so budget is unfortunately of grave concern-not even counting the $500+ for pro mastering afterwards... ugh...

http://www.myspace.com/offormerfame

"Believe" and "Gummie Bear" were mixed for $150 a piece and Dichotomy for free because Glenn enjoyed it so much. That was a really low price for him since I supplied everything edited, pitch corrected and ready to go, but is still too much for us at this juncture to really consider for the additional mixes

All others were done by me.

Close to the Door came out well and sounds huge with the limiting I did but there's room for improvement though I'm not sure I want to dig back into this tune.

Never Intended and After All have their + and - but overall kinda suck. I wasn't able to get the bass and bass drum thumping like I wanted and the mix really lacks some excitement from it. The cleans don't come through well and I've not figured out how to mix clean guitar so it sounds fantastic like most pro mixes.

I Am is an alright mix-and we kinda hate the song anyways.

The Pharisee and Elemental are for the new EP but they could likely be mixed by someone better too in the future.

SO

Is there anyone interested in mixing some tunes for free/cheap? This would mostly be for fun since we would not be able to afford appropriate compensation unfortunately. This is especially true since I'm ok enough at mixing to get by on my own and can't justify the money on new mixes in my current financial situation.

I would be willing to work out a deal where funds earned from the release could be applied to later payments to make it worth your while. "Credit" if you will. That's obviously very risky for you if the release doesn't sell anything but I thought I'd throw that out. I may also be willing to work out a payment plan. I'd be happy to supply necessary identification for ease of taking legal action if I don't follow through.

Tracks are normally dry using Pod Farm for guitar, bass and vocal pre-amp effects to make them more polished sounding. I could of course render down the modeled signals with no reverb for us if you do not own Pod Farm, or like me, don't have a powerful enough computer to run 30 tracks with all those fun plugins.

Drums are all MIDI into Superior Drummer, Addictive Drums, or EZ Drummer depending on how old the song is. I can re-arrange the MIDI as necessary to suit your drum program or simply provide you mix downs of the dry drum wavs from Superior Drummer, which would probably be preferred.

Anyways, let the flaming begin but if you're at all interested let me know.

d.bop · 05-17-2010, 01:13 PM

Hmm... I tried PM'ing you but for some reason the link isn't working..

Send me a PM if you can. I can't take a listen right now (no speakers on this computer..) but the entire concept of my studio is to provide great mixes to low-budget/no-budget musicians so I'd love an opportunity to help you out.

If you can't send PMs, try emailing me through the website in my signature.

Omni · 05-17-2010, 01:44 PM

Sent you a PM I'll follow up with a email.

You don't seem to have examples on your site. I listened to the first class failure songs and they sound good if you did those. If not, I'd like some examples obviously

d.bop · 05-17-2010, 01:56 PM

PM sent..

Omni · 05-17-2010, 02:11 PM

Thanks for all the replies via PM I'm getting guys. Some of the examples are really great!

I'll try to make some stems of a song tonight. Maybe After All. I need to rerecord the Bass guitar on it though. It's time to restring anyways.

If each of you could send pm a desired price for each of the following that'd be great so I can work out the best situation for my band:

1 song
4 songs
7 songs

All appropriate credit praise will be given for the "winner" so hopefully we get famous lol.

Wow, Bubba One Step At A Time is awesome! Seriously I'm smiling with these already.

Omni · 05-17-2010, 02:59 PM

So you guys know the usual track count

I typically have:

Bass Drum (mono)

Snare Drum (mono)

Snare Bottom (mono)

Hi Hat (stereo)

Toms (stereo)

Overheads (stereo)

Room (stereo)

Bass Guitar Amped(mono)
Bass Guitar DI (mono)

Double Guitar for verse (mono)
(mono)

Possibly 3-4 tracks if there's 2 Guitar parts(mono)
(mono)

Double tracked Chorus Guitar(mono)
(mono)

I'm getting in to experimenting with more tracks with the same amp but different cabs or mics.

Double tracked 2nd Guitar on Chorus for harmony riff(mono)
(mono)

One or two "trinket" "extra" or "ambient" parts I put in for extra noise in quiet parts.

Double tracked vocals(mono)
(mono)

Double tracked backing vocals(mono)
(mono)

Total is typically 20-25 Raw tracks.

Everything would be pre-edited and cleaned (usually leave breaths in vocals but I could pull those out-what is the recommendation?)

Vocals will be tuned already as well.

Tracks can either be output in full length so they'll work in any program, or I can use a Reaper session to point the files to the proper offsets and make the download size smaller.

I can also provide completely dry tracks of each for your own modeling plugins as needed. I can actually even lend my spare Line 6 Gearbox DI Gold so you can have access to the Pod Farm with all its sims during the mix.

So questions for you guys would be:

Would you want any "room" on the guitars or completely dry close mic'd sound? Pod Farm has a Room parameter for a little bit of early reflections. It's pretty subtle but I usually have a little bit on.

Do you want the plane jane vocal tracks or should I run them through the Line 6 mic preamp sims for a much better sound? I can set the EQ to flat of course.

Do you want me to hit everything with a tape simulator like Ferox or would you prefer control over that?

I'll try provide MIDI drums and some mapping files for Superior Drummer 2.0 to EZ Drummer or Addictive Drums but those will be fairly time consuming on all the rest of this so full drum tracks will also be given.

lastly... now that I've written this all out, there's no way it'll be ready tonight. This is an older recording that some of the files may not even exist any more lol. I'll get it asap though.

Bubbagump · 05-18-2010, 08:39 AM

The more vanilla the better typically. Anyone worth their salt can add any of that stuff after the fact if they so choose. One can't remove any kaboomification you have added if it isn't working in the mix. Frankly, there is nothing worse than wet tracks unless they are for a very specific effect (like a particular phaser on the guitar that is part of the tune's sound).

Omni · 05-18-2010, 09:06 AM

So good news and bad news.

The album needs to be at least 10 songs I believe. So that's more mixing. I may need to use multiple people to stay within a budget

Mastering will be done by the label-good news.

We'll need to front $1000 for initial distribution but it's refundable IF we sell 250 units. My drummer's gonna be pissed. He's really touchy about money. Maybe that's why he always has more than me...

Re-recorded the main vocals for After All last night. Need to double them then do the quick Backup takes. Also re-recorded the Bass with a real bass and some fresh strings.

Working on MIDI drums today and will hopefully have the guitar tracks redone by tonight.

1st song should be ready to download by thursday morning.

We'll see how everyones mixes go and choose a final engineer or two after to work on the rest.

Smurf · 05-18-2010, 10:38 AM

Is this by invite only, or are you posting this track as an "audition" for a mixer or 2?

Omni · 05-18-2010, 10:40 AM

I'll make it public for everyone. Anyone can mix it for fun. If you're interested in doing the whole album we can discuss it in the thread or PM.

folkrav · 05-18-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omni

I'll make it public for everyone. Anyone can mix it for fun. If you're interested in doing the whole album we can discuss it in the thread or PM.

I would be really interrested in mixing this. Could give it a shot then you could give me some feedback if you like it or not, so I don't do something completely out of your vision of the songs, then we would be able to talk.

I hate to make ppl pay for no reason, as I only maintain this studio to help low-budget bands to have, IMO, decent songs to present.

shawnguess · 05-18-2010, 12:05 PM

id like to mix a track just to see how it turns out.

Omni · 05-18-2010, 02:33 PM

Well this is getting big.

It's going to be hard to listen to each and decide with this growing list lol.

I should hopefully have After All ready on Thursday AM but we'll see how the preparation goes.

wags3d · 05-18-2010, 11:38 PM

Omni I sent you a PM, I heard your tracks and I'm interested in doing some mixing for you as well.

Neve · 05-19-2010, 12:30 AM

I pm you as well. Keep me posted.

Omni · 05-19-2010, 08:23 AM

Alright I tightened the Bass Guitar to the drums and re-recorded 90% of the guitars last night. Just need to redo a couple "trinket" pieces as I like to call them. My drummer is coming over so hopefully he can edit the midi for the drums to tighten it up. He's still learning about that though so I'll probably end up doing it anyways. Last bit is the double track vox and background vocals for the chorus.

Then it's time to clean up the track, pick some tones and export to dry and effected tracks...

The fam took up a bit of time the last couple nights so hopefully I can still get all this done by Thursday AM but I'm less hopeful. Thursday we have practice and Friday night is a show so it may have to wait till Saturday. Damn day job.

Once After All is output I'll export Elemental since I just got done mixing that last weekend. That'll make song two ready quickly. I can export some of my more recent ones pretty quickly then start chugging through the old ones again. I'm exhausted just thinking about it lol

fester2000 · 05-19-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omni

The fam took up a bit of time the last couple nights so hopefully I can still get all this done by Thursday AM but I'm less hopeful. Thursday we have practice and Friday night is a show so it may have to wait till Saturday. Damn day job.

Once After All is output I'll export Elemental since I just got done mixing that last weekend. That'll make song two ready quickly. I can export some of my more recent ones pretty quickly then start chugging through the old ones again. I'm exhausted just thinking about it lol

Dude, it's worth it -- you guys have written some *incredibly* high quality material. Hang in there!

Cheers,

Fester2k

Bubbagump · 05-19-2010, 09:02 AM

You taking DI tracks of the guitars you are retracking? Super handy.

Omni · 05-19-2010, 09:14 AM

Yes. I'll be providing completely DI Guitar, Bass and Vocals along with Processed Versions using Amp Sims and PreAmp sims for the Vocals.

Omni · 05-19-2010, 09:43 AM

The tempo will be 130 BPM until the quiet bridge where it increases 1 BPM per measure to 135 BPM by the time the Bridge gets heavy and stays at that pace the rest of the song.

The MIDI file will have the tempo mapped in it for assistance and I can give exact time stamps of the changes.

All recorded samples are 24 bit 48 KHZ. I'll have to check on Drumkit Superior's sample rate but I'm pretty sure it matches.

The song key is A Minor as far as I can tell. I'll have to map out the vocals and everything to be sure.

Neve · 05-19-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omni

The tempo will be 130 BPM until the quiet bridge where it increases 1 BPM per measure to 135 BPM by the time the Bridge gets heavy and stays at that pace the rest of the song.

The MIDI file will have the tempo mapped in it for assistance and I can give exact time stamps of the changes.

All recorded samples are 24 bit 48 KHZ. I'll have to check on Drumkit Superior's sample rate but I'm pretty sure it matches.

The song key is A Minor as far as I can tell. I'll have to map out the vocals and everything to be sure.

Cool,

Good to know.

Cheers

nfpotter · 05-19-2010, 09:56 AM

Omni,

For future reference, I'd recommend recording at 44.1K instead of 48K. You're gaining nothing audible by recording at 48K, creating bigger files, and asking for more hassle later, when it needs to come back to 44.1K anyway.

The only time I do 48K is if I know it's going to DVD/video.

Omni · 05-19-2010, 10:12 AM

I'll keep that in mind. I was under the impression that 48Khz would be a little better for the dither to be adding at mixdown.

That said, my bedroom is really electrically noisy so a uber low noise floor is not really a possibility for me anyways.

Speaking of, should I try to use any noise reduction on the effected tracks prior to posting them?

I try to stand in the right spots but my house is pretty old an it generally sucks.

Omni · 05-19-2010, 10:13 AM

ok just to express my excitent- another label contacted us this morning... just some general questions but WTF did Of Former Fame get some publicity some where all of a sudden? lol

Europanaut · 05-19-2010, 11:16 AM

I'm in.

Omni, check your pm.

Europanaut

Omni · 05-19-2010, 11:24 AM

Europanaut

Circle of Wings is a pretty cool blend of soft and metal guitars. I dig it.

Bubbagump · 05-19-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omni

I'll keep that in mind. I was under the impression that 48Khz would be a little better for the dither to be adding at mixdown.

Dither and sample rate are mutually exclusive. They have nothing to do with each other.

Quote:

Speaking of, should I try to use any noise reduction on the effected tracks prior to posting them?

Let the mix guy make that decision. Aka, leave it alone. Pre processing (tape emulators, noise reduction, mic pre modelers, kaboomifiers, compressors, EQ, etc etc) = pea soup to undo for the mix guy.

Prodcution works like this:

Track > Mix > Master

The tracking guy should not be screwing with stuff to "pre mix. The mix guy should not be screwing with stuff to "pre master". Each piece needs to be done alone so that you are not painted into a corner by what the previous guy did.

Omni · 05-19-2010, 12:46 PM

The last person I mixed with complained about the noisy bass so I wanted to be sure.

Noisy guitars it is! I'll at least silence the non playing parts and you can build a noise reduction sample out of the DI tracks as necessary.

My understanding with dither is that you can sculpt the dither noise into the frequency range above our hearing of 20 Khz which requires a sample rate above the 44.1. As a result, you can accomplish the same effect while reducing the amount of perceptable noise in the final mix.

I read on that forever ago though. Maybe it's garbage lol.

Bubbagump · 05-19-2010, 01:44 PM

Yeah, you sort of have it sideways. That's not how noise shaping in dither works. Typically, it adjusts the dither noise such that it works to the inverse of the Equal Loudness contour and the noise loudest in regions of our hearing we are least sensitive. But again, dither is for the mastering guy to worry about.

Omni · 05-19-2010, 08:56 PM

OK didn't get to record backing vocals tonight like I hoped. label discussion and a battle of the bands competition next week won out.

We've got band practice tomorrow night and a show Friday night so the earliest I can post these will be Saturday evening. Vocals may not be done until Sunday evening.

Europanaut · 05-19-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omni

Europanaut

Circle of Wings is a pretty cool blend of soft and metal guitars. I dig it.

Thanks!

Euro
http://circleofwingsband.com/

Omni · 05-21-2010, 10:40 AM

So the second label had some harsh critiques for my singer Steve. They would probably sign us if it were not for his vocals. yay.

At least we can sign with the first one.

Since Steve FINALLY has someone important telling him, "hey you kinda suck-fix that" perhaps in a few months time he'll be better.

Problem with that is I'm recording everything now and later it will be too late to rerecord vocals.

wags3d · 05-21-2010, 11:58 AM

You just have to do the best you can Omni. We can also help a bit with some vocal magic in the mix. Try and do some double tracked vocal takes on separate tracks, this can go a long way to improving the vocals. Really looking forward to getting the tracks.

Cheers,
-Wags

antiClick · 05-22-2010, 06:53 AM

So let me understand....

You have some labels supporting your work. And you are willing to pay mastering and duplication, but not the most critical step (mixing!). So now you are uploading the raw tracks to the public, hoping several people to mix a full album... through the internet... and for free.

I predict a huge amount of time losen by both sides of the wire.

Omni · 05-22-2010, 10:44 AM

The label will not be paying me for anything until I actually sell any albums so this cd has to come out of my pocket.

I've got a distribution fee, photography, website redesign, lawyer fees and a host of other costs to account for out of my pocket before this can be released. I'm capable of mixing these well enough without resorting to a 3rd party. I know others can do better however.

So...

Yes that is the general idea. And if you're not OK with it, then simply don't participate. I've made it abundantly clear what my intention is and how little money I can currently invest so there is no trickery or deception. Anyone who wants to participate can and anyone who doesn't want to invest their time into something with such little return doesn't have to do anything.

As I also stated, I'm more than willing to arrange a mix now pay later based off of the CD sales if whoever we work with wants more money that we're able to provide at the moment.

Evan · 05-22-2010, 11:09 AM

There are two 'ouch' things in this deal:

1) It's a whole album, around 10 songs as you said. And you want them all to be mixed by one person for uniformity.

Logical requirement, but for free that's a little too much (considering the amount of work).

2) You want pro mixers i.e. people who mix for a living?

I am a hobbyist musician who loves opportunities like this, to be tried+tested with serious mixes, even if it's for free. I couldn't guarantee a pro result, but I have good taste, I know the basics and I am confident I can at least do something interesting. And I am sure more are feeling like this.

I could not however commit to a whole album. And if it's all-or-nothing, then I will have to stay out.

But, if you'd like to have different takes on different songs, or even re-mix type stuff, many would give it a go for free (and some credit in the notes).

By the way, how similar are the tracks recording-wise? If the songs have been recorded with more or less the same setup, then it will make it simpler to mix the whole album, for whoever mixes it.

antiClick · 05-22-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omni

I've got a distribution fee, photography, website redesign, lawyer fees and a host of other costs to account for out of my pocket before this can be released. I'm capable of mixing these well enough without resorting to a 3rd party. I know others can do better however.

So...

Yes that is the general idea. And if you're not OK with it, then simply don't participate.

Hey I just wanted to give some advice.
In fact I wouldn't mind to give a mix for free if I like the music a lot, but a whole album is another story.

Maybe you are lucky, so lucy as the man who throwed a puzzle through the window and expected its pieces to join during the fall.

Omni · 05-22-2010, 02:24 PM

Yeah I know it's a lot to ask. I doing 10 for free is ridiculous I know, but I saw no reason not to mention it in case someone is crazy into mixing

Obviously this has morphed over the thread as different things have happened in the last week. It would have just been 4 up to 7 tracks(even that's a ton when working for only a little) and although I would prefer a single mixer for a guaranteed similar outcome, I think that having a few people to do it would work fine as long as they are a similar caliber. Mastering should resolve any major discrepancies I assume.

Actually, we're now playing a Battle of the Bands next weekend. IF we win, there's a 3K prize. That would cover all our costs and still allow us to pay the mixer(s) a more appropriate amount for the mixes.

Cross your fingers for us lol

Anyways I've gotten After All just about ready. I need to rerecord 1 guitar track but my gear is in my bassist's van from our show last night. He's gonna drop it by today I believe. We have practice tomorrow so I should be able to get the vocals finished finally and actually get started on this project.

Smurf · 05-22-2010, 03:04 PM

As for myself, I look forward to "auditioning" for the job. 10 tracks or not. I think I can bring something to the table, and if I am not selected I got to mix some more tracks & get the experience under my belt....

I look forward to the tracks!

Kundalinguist · 05-22-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubbagump

...kaboomification...

I love that word.