Old 02-12-2012, 01:26 PM   #1
for
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Default Mixing and mastering with headphones

hello, i got really good closed ear headphones

is it ok to mix and master with these headphones as i don't have monitors?
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #2
Gerry P
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if you don't have monitors, then the answer is yes...there is a lot to learn in mixing or mastering and at least the headphones will allow you to move forward.

I mix with headphones for my own mixes and just recently discovered TB Isone, which allows me to get the resultant mp3 sound I get after exporting from Reaper, but in real-time before the export...a great time saver.
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:55 PM   #3
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Bear in mind that headphones are not true stereo, they're binaural, so you might find issues in terms of translation of stereo imaging.

I guess something like Isone would really help, but I've not tried it myself.

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Old 02-12-2012, 02:37 PM   #4
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Strictly headphones? Mixing? Maybe some. Mastering? I say no way. Mastering is the finishing process, the polish and shine and finalizing of a song. Headphones are ok if that is all you have, but I would not feel comfortable, let's say, releasing a song for public consumption if the song never got reviewed and mastered on at least decent monitors. Prices are coming down, especially if you buy "last years models" of things. I say keep honing your craft and use what you have, but get some decent monitors, like KRK Rockits or similar, before you decide that something is actually done. Or bring it elsewhere if it absolutely has to get done. I spent years thinking that it was ok to not own monitors, and as good as my mixes sounded to me, they did not translate well at all. After a small investment and some time getting to know my monitors in my mixing room, I can quickly and reliably have a great mix. Good luck!
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #5
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and of course, a treated room to go with the monitors...
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #6
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Would get you by but nothing really beats a decent set of reference monitors and a well treated room. Treated room being especially important...it makes your mixes translate so much easier it's worth the money saved and spent. If you must mix on headphones, I've heard alot of good things about this although I haven't used it myself. (Would still rely on monitors though )
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry P View Post
and of course, a treated room to go with the monitors...
Don't forget to get those pebbles either. Sometimes placement is a bitch though.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:35 PM   #8
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Default If headphones is all you have....

....my advice would be to listen intently to all your favorite commercial mixes. Study them, through your headphones, so you know how "they" translate. Then, when you do your mixes, try to make your mixes match what you heard in the commercial releases.

Know what I mean?

That said, it is best to have a good pair of reference monitors, even then, the above described practice, still has merit.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:42 PM   #9
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Without the long boring "excuses", it's just not practical for me. So I relate to the idea of wanting to use cans. I don't just have one set though
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:16 AM   #10
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You need reference quality headphones(Beyer DT 880 or Sennheiser HD600 are good choices) to make this practical.

And you also need isone to deal with the exaggerated stereo separation inherent to headphone monitoring.
http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-isone/

Checking your mix in mono is also recommended. In fact having at least a single powered mix cube speaker as a reality check would go along way to getting better mixes.

http://www.frontendaudio.com/Avanton...9999-00057.htm

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Old 02-13-2012, 12:16 PM   #11
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From Recording Magazine:
Quote:
As those of you who have followed this column for any length of time can attest, headphone mixing is one of the big no-no's around these parts. In our humble opinion, headphone mixes do not translate well in the real world, period, end of story. Other than checking for balance issues and the occasional hunting down of little details, they are tools best left for the tracking process.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:49 PM   #12
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If your only real option is headphones, first mix it as best you can, then take your mixes to as many different environments as possible. Listen in the car, on your home stereo, on ipad, from a boom box etc. Make notes about each item that jumps out at you (too much bass, can't hear whatever). Go tweak your mix and do it again. This may take several times before you get it to a place that sounds good. If you do, you win the mixing game;-) Actually until you have a ton of experience you should probably do this anyway, even with monitors. One of the advantages of a good set of monitors in a well treated room is over time you learn how your mixes translate to other environments and you need less of this back and forth. But if phones are what you have this process is a must do in my opinion.
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry P View Post
and of course, a treated room to go with the monitors...
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Without doing this you may be better off with headphones assuming the headphones are pretty accurate. Untreated rooms wind up with huge bass and comb filtering issues. Headphones are an issue because there is no room and the sound can't develop but I think that beats a poorly developed sound from an untreated room or system combination (DSP or even a reverse filter on the Master out for the sub-300hz issues)
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwoody View Post
If your only real option is headphones, first mix it as best you can, then take your mixes to as many different environments as possible. Listen in the car, on your home stereo, on ipad, from a boom box etc. Make notes about each item that jumps out at you (too much bass, can't hear whatever). Go tweak your mix and do it again. This may take several times before you get it to a place that sounds good. If you do, you win the mixing game;-) Actually until you have a ton of experience you should probably do this anyway, even with monitors. One of the advantages of a good set of monitors in a well treated room is over time you learn how your mixes translate to other environments and you need less of this back and forth. But if phones are what you have this process is a must do in my opinion.
YES!!!!!!!!!!
The second excellent post on this.

I have headphones (two diff pairs) and use them as well as my car. I also have a treated studio set up. But the thing I trust most is my home stereo which is set up very well with the room treated and a DSP for the sub-300hz issues. I use that system because it lets the sound develop. More so than even monitors because they are so nearfield. (I find this is especially important for imaging and Fx like reverb. I find reverb on monitors can sound excessive but on the stereo the sound develops and sounds right)
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:48 PM   #15
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You cannot master with headphones.

You wouldn't take a recording of Sokolov playing a Bosendorfer and use a VST to similate the sound of a Casio play-along keyboard while you mix.

When you master, you are saying this is how it is supposed to sound when all conditions are perfect.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #16
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I wear my ear googles for most of the mixing( usally late nights)then tweak it in the day with my near- fields. Once you get used to the difference between the two the more knowalge you gain of the shortcomings of headphone mixing.
Oh and second the , checking the mix in different places. Buy some re-writeable CD"s and keep adjusting!

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Old 02-15-2012, 08:48 PM   #17
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I might (while also agreeing at the same time ) disagree with the "treated room" thing except that it's mostly true, but probably not exclusively true... but yeah, true in almost every single case.

Treatment implies that there are room boundaries that will negatively influence your perception of the direct sound... which is the case almost all the time... except when it's not. I mean, setting up a mix rig in the middle of a very large space like a nice sized barn would pretty much give you all direct sound... unless you played the music really, really loud.

So much for a whopper of a nitpick.
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Old 02-16-2012, 02:30 AM   #18
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Excellent advice from Big Woody.

I think one has to be careful of making definitive statements like "You cannot master with headphones".

It is possible to end up with a decent product mixed and mastered in headphones, especially given tools like Isone to assist and then following Woody's advice.

It might be a bit circuitous and frustrating this way, but if this is all you have available, I say do it. In a funny sort of way, you could learn a lot more about the mixing/mastering process by going this tortuous route.

Don't let anything stop you from putting your stuff out.

Brian May made his own guitar because he was broke -- Joe Meek recorded Telstar in his bathroom --- go for it.
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Old 02-16-2012, 08:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Don't let anything stop you from putting your stuff out.

Brian May made his own guitar because he was broke -- Joe Meek recorded Telstar in his bathroom --- go for it.
Best advice ever on the forum. Nice.
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