Old 12-07-2017, 12:34 PM   #1
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Default v5.65rc4 - December 7 2017

v5.65rc4 - December 7 2017
+ API: GetTempoTimeSigMarker always returns the current tempo and time signature, even if the marker only sets one or the other [p=1916517]
+ Arrange: do not allow pencil drawing in collapsed tracks [t=200258]
# MIDI editor: allow actions to navigate cursor forward/back to navigate beyond the start/end of the active MIDI item [p=1921718]
# Ruler: adapt to larger font sizes in primary/secondary mode
# Ruler: display more labels in non-minimal timeline modes
# Ruler: recalculate layout on theme change

Full changelog - Latest pre-releases
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:15 PM   #2
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Expect behaviour or bug ?

I can't more reduce the height of the ruler.

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Old 12-07-2017, 03:55 PM   #3
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Bug?
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:37 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Expect behaviour or bug ?

I can't more reduce the height of the ruler.
yes. it seems the minimum height is a bit larger now, which leaves those gaps. And it is even worse if you make the ruler larger to make room for multiple region lanes etc.

idea: right click where we can drag to resize the ruler area(where the cursor changes to arrows), to display a menu with the "Ruler: x" actions.
We are used to be able to right click everything. Don't lose this.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Expect behaviour or bug ?

I can't more reduce the height of the ruler.

yeahh, it is so big now, even more wasted space, than it was before.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:15 PM   #6
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# Ruler: adapt to larger font sizes in primary/secondary mode

This appears to fix displaying lower-case letters such as j and y and underscores (_) in markers and regions. I've got it working in all Ruler resizing modes using all characters found on my standard MS keyboard (upper-case/lower-case letters, numbers and symbols.) Thanks!
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v5.65rc4 - December 7 2017
+ API: GetTempoTimeSigMarker always returns the current tempo and time signature, even if the marker only sets one or the other [p=1916517]
I thought this had anything to do with the break of SWS/BR freehand tempo actions, but no... Those actions are still sorely broken. Please devs, don´t be like that; with 5.65, you´re going to break something of great importance for many of us MIDI producers...
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dimson View Post

Bug?
That's not directly related to this Pre-Release, but I tested starting with 5.50c and that bug surfaced in v5.60. Note: It doesn't happen if you enable the Option "Automation items connect to the underlying envelope on both sides".
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:48 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
I thought this had anything to do with the break of SWS/BR freehand tempo actions, but no... Those actions are still sorely broken. Please devs, don´t be like that; with 5.65, you´re going to break something of great importance for many of us MIDI producers...
Do me a favor — make a licecap video showing the actions to reproduce on both 5.62 and the latest build, one video on each, and go really slowly. and then list the steps here too. do that and i’ll see if i can reproduce and fix!
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:10 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
v5.65rc4 - December 7 2017
+ API: GetTempoTimeSigMarker always returns the current tempo and time signature, even if the marker only sets one or the other [p=1916517]
Unfortunately, this does not fix the problem:

* GetTempoTimeSigMarker and SetTempoTimeSigMarker should be symmetric. SWS and scripts assume that, if GetTempoTimeSigMarker's return values are used as arguments for SetTempoTimeSigMarker, there will be no change. With these new return values, tempo changes are turned into timesig markers.

* How can a script distinguish between a tempo change, a timesig+tempo change, and a timesig marker?

* Extensions should add new flags or return values, not change values that were already defined in the documentation and that scripts may depend on.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Edgemeal View Post
That's not directly related to this Pre-Release, but I tested starting with 5.50c and that bug surfaced in v5.60. Note: It doesn't happen if you enable the Option "Automation items connect to the underlying envelope on both sides".
Indeed, enabling this option corrects this problem, thanks
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:39 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Expect behaviour or bug ?

I can't more reduce the height of the ruler.

The ruler finally looks good. Plenty of space for tons of markers and easy to read data. Long time coming but I love all these ruler and tempo stuff. Great work devs. Keep chipping away at the GUI and I can't wait to see the future changes
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:30 AM   #13
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Do me a favor — make a licecap video showing the actions to reproduce on both 5.62 and the latest build, one video on each, and go really slowly. and then list the steps here too. do that and i’ll see if i can reproduce and fix!
Fine; thanks soo much Justin! Here I go :

First of all, I´m talking specifically about two actions in this case, but probably a whole bunch of other related ones are also broken due to the same issue :

1) SWS/BR: Freehand draw envelope while snapping points to left side grid line (perform until shortcut released)

2) SWS/BR: Set closest envelope point´s value to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut released)

I assign a keyboard shortcut to each one. Now, take a look at this :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4sipxjxp47...pre15.gif?dl=0


I recorded this little gif video with 5.65pre15, which is the last build in which the functionality worked fine.

- From 0:00 to 0.15 you see the freehand drawing on the tempo envelope in action (you press the shortcut of the first action and simply draw).

- From 0:16 onwards, you see how the second action works. It´s simple, it allows you to rapidly place the mouse cursor anywhere and set the nearest envelope point to its position, allowing very smooth editing of square changes in the envelope. If you use this second action over existing points and you simply draw over them (as shown from 0:27 to 0:32), this actions behaves exactly as the first one, drawing in a freehand fashion with the existing points (which is also extremely convenient when you alternate both ways of editing).

And now, just try to do the same on any build from 5.65pre16 up to the last one. You´ll see freehand inferno in its ugliest form. Everything is messed in the tempo envelope : time signatures are caotically created here and there, entire sections of points dissapear or are shifted in their position abruptly, without any apparent logic. Just check this out :


https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ctv43avd8...65rc4.gif?dl=0


There, I alternate the first and the second action, always with horrible results. It´s simple, just try to freehand draw with the first action leaving the shortcut pressed as desired, and then try to edit what you already drew with the second action. You´ll see...

It´s fair to emphasize that probably many other tempo-related actions are broken (juliansader mentioned some of his own, and there is at least a similar Breeder action named SWS/BR: Set closest left side envelope point´s value to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut released) which doesn´t work either). I hope that the fix, if done at the core level of the problem, can impact on those also.

I will also email you a little excerpt of a work a did a couple of years ago, showing a real world use case of extreme freehand tempo drawing/editing, both in video form and with the excerpt of the tempo envelope in an empty project. The original project consists of 59 tracks, with many Sample Modeling instruments (which are quite CPU demanding), Kontakt libraries and BFD3 (which is neither precisely light on resources). With the kind of point density you´ll see on that tempo envelope excerpt, and at least with a setup consisting of an I7 3770K (3.50Ghz), 32 Gbs of RAM and SSDs, I never noticed any really significant impact on processing - as Schwa mentioned -. It probably is more demanding on resources to have such a density of tempo changes, but for those of us who dedicate to pseudo-orchestral music, to have this possibility of freehand drawing/editing of tempo available is really a must, no matter if it is the "unofficial" way as with the SWS/BR solution.

Thanks again in advance Justin; if you need further feedback just tell me!

[EDIT] I have already sent the mail with the example.

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Old 12-08-2017, 07:43 AM   #14
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i'm getting some unfortunate grid lines and snap points when using tempo changes. only visible at different zoom levels. these have come and gone throughout various REAPER tempo change cycles so i thought i'd point it out now

example- why are 65.1, 81.1, 97.1 falling in between grid divisions?

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Old 12-08-2017, 08:11 AM   #15
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If it might help, here is the relevant part in Breeder's code, illustrating how Get/SetTempoTimeSigMarker is used:
Code:
// Add or edit point on grid division
      bool addedGridPoint = false;
      if (id != -1)
      {
        int currentTempoCount = CountTempoTimeSigMarkers(NULL);
        int num, den;
        double position;
        GetTempoTimeSigMarker(NULL, id, &position, NULL, NULL, NULL, &num, &den, NULL);
        InsertStretchMarkerInAllItems(position, true, GRID_DIV_DELTA / 2);

        if (den != 0)
        {
          double positionQN = TimeMap_timeToQN_abs(NULL, position);
          if (SetTempoTimeSigMarker(NULL, id, position, -1, -1, newVal, num, den, g_envMouseEnvelope->GetDefaultShape() == LINEAR))
          {
              if (SetTempoTimeSigMarker(NULL, id, TimeMap_QNToTime_abs(NULL, positionQN), -1, -1, newVal, num, den, g_envMouseEnvelope->GetDefaultShape() == LINEAR))
              pointsEdited = true;
          }
        }
        else
        {
          int measure; double beats = TimeMap2_timeToBeats(NULL, gridDiv, &measure, NULL, NULL, NULL);
          if (SetTempoTimeSigMarker(NULL, id, -1, measure, beats, newVal, 0, 0, g_envMouseEnvelope->GetDefaultShape() == LINEAR))
            pointsEdited = true;
        }
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:59 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
The ruler finally looks good.
Sadly, not for everyone. Specialy when your screen is small and when you think that the empty space between the icones and the rest of interface is ugly.

Maybe a solution : minimize the ruler size ?


Last edited by ovnis; 12-08-2017 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:11 AM   #17
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Plus, it could be great if we can add this option (more logical and intuitive) : the ruller follows the grid .

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Old 12-08-2017, 11:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Maybe a solution : minimize the ruler size ?
I suggested it in different ways not even once, but seems nobody likes this idea.
here 1 of them:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=199023
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:45 PM   #19
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Yeah this definitely needs a solution, there's too much loss of screen estate.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Sadly, not for everyone. Specialy when your screen is small and when you think that the empty space between the icones and the rest of interface is ugly.

Maybe a solution : minimize the ruler size ?

There is space there. I have it. Just drag the toolbar down as usual. Your screenshot shows no space but there is space available.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:41 PM   #21
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That's exactly the problem, there IS space. But there shouldn't be.
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:54 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by _Stevie_ View Post
That's exactly the problem, there IS space. But there shouldn't be.
Just drag it back. Up and down. The toolbar draggy area hasn't changed. I can remove the space as well is what I'm saying.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:16 PM   #23
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Just drag it back. Up and down. The toolbar draggy area hasn't changed. I can remove the space as well is what I'm saying.
Not really, the ruler area at its smallest height now takes up about 13 more pixels vertically then previous version (Win7 1080p). But if thats what it takes to give us all the new ruler/marker options then so be it. The ruler does look better/cleaner now.

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Old 12-08-2017, 02:44 PM   #24
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Hello! There is a bug in Mouse modifiers... In midi ruler I sets for default action a behavior - no action(left drag) And now I expect that select or edit an area is not doing, but a behavior was not changed.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
Just drag it back. Up and down. The toolbar draggy area hasn't changed. I can remove the space as well is what I'm saying.
Not me. When I try to reduce the heigt, there is always empty space inside the icones area.


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Old 12-08-2017, 03:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgemeal
But if thats what it takes to give us all the new ruler/marker options then so be it. The ruler does look better/cleaner now.
We should be able to reduce the height of the ruler witout any issue of clarity.

Look here :
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...8&postcount=17

Last edited by ovnis; 12-08-2017 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Not me. When I try to reduce the heigt, there is always empty space inside the icones area.


Maybe your theme. No clue. But sorry, it works here
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:21 PM   #28
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Same issue with the reaper default theme.



What theme do you use ?
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:33 PM   #29
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@ovnis, it is not a big problem. but yes I also have that margin with two rows of toolbar buttons.
I now am going to make the ruler a bit bigger, to let two region lanes, and then the main toolbar can fit to 3 rows exactly without those margins, so I can put an extra row of toolbar buttons there.
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:49 PM   #30
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I have an UWHD screen, therefore my track list is wider and as a result, the main toolbar is only one bar.
And in this configuration, there's this annoying space.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:02 PM   #31
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It's really not a big deal. The pros far outweigh cons.

For the greater good.


The greater good.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:12 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
@ovnis, it is not a big problem. but yes I also have that margin with two rows of toolbar buttons.
I now am going to make the ruler a bit bigger, to let two region lanes, and then the main toolbar can fit to 3 rows exactly without those margins, so I can put an extra row of toolbar buttons there.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:25 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by lowellben View Post
It's really not a big deal. The pros far outweigh cons.

For the greater good.


The greater good.
We can make the ruler (which displays measures at the bottom) less hight and make everybody becomes happy (you will lose nothing). So, there is an issue about that ?

Last edited by ovnis; 12-08-2017 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:55 PM   #34
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Sounds perfectly fine to me.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:31 AM   #35
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Trying to find the greater good...

What actually are the pros about this? I can't see any benefit in loosing vertical space I formerly had available for the arrange area. This is one track less I can see in my theme, which is optimized to show as many tracks as possible in collapsed track state and I just can't see what I am getting in turn for this sacrifice.

Another thing I don't like is that the toolbar buttons reorder themselves when the ruler is resized. That's highly disorienting.

There should be a way to disable the reordering (or is there?).
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:20 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
That won't work in dual ruler mode (showing bars/beats and minutes/seconds at the same time). Also that tempo lane looks way too scrunched there, not enough breathing room.


It's better now than it was before, IMHO.


Also, 1200p monitors rule. Screw 1080p


Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
There should be a way to disable the reordering (or is there?).
I think what causes that to happen in your toolbar is all those spacers. I only have ONE spacer that splits everything in two rows with exactly the same number of buttons, then resizing the ruler vertically works just fine...




As you can see, I like some breathing room in my toolbars.

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Old 12-09-2017, 01:42 AM   #37
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That won't work in dual ruler mode (showing bars/beats and minutes/seconds at the same time). Also that tempo lane looks way too scrunched there, not enough breathing room.
Errm, the tempo lane is the exact same size in "before" and "after"?

Having both units shown worked before 5.65, why shouldn't it work anymore now?
Even if it isn't doable when showing both units, why is it necessary to waste the space when showing only one of them - which is what I do? Couldn't the ruler resize when switching to show both, as it does when switching to show seperate lanes for time and tempo (but fucks up my toolbar in the process)?


As of the spacers in the toolbar, I inserted them to have functional groups of icons (call it breathing room. if you like ). It took quite a bit of work to do so, so be assured, I want it like that (and I can see that you did the same for the other toolbar in your pic, so I guess you do understand the reasoning). This toolbar is used here to quickly be glanced at when I need to see option states and having them grouped does help me a lot with this. Having the icons re-shuffled is counter-productive.
I do see that this may be a different discussion, as toolbar icon reordering has a lot more room for improvement than just disabling the auto-ordering - especially when spacers are used.

And no, I won't be buying a new monitor in the foreseeable future, I am happy with mine.

Last edited by gofer; 12-09-2017 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:15 AM   #38
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If we are going to nitpick REAPER lay-out there is a whole can of worms that could be opened….

[layout.png - Google Drive](https://drive.google.com/open?id=18g...GnoNVFCGz2p4G4)
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:28 AM   #39
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But the ruler/toolbar nitpicks are related to the changes in this release cycle. (Not to diminuish other niggles)

I am not saying my or anybody's life depends on those 13 pixels, but to me this is a regression taking place in 5.65, as far as comfort is concerned.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:44 AM   #40
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Me personally don`t need these stripes with regions, time signatures or whtever, it just take space from arrangement like in pic below. I would have just 20-30 pixel ruler with time and show/hide other data by actions if needed.



I can live even without ruler. Fck linear arranging, fck grid and snapping.
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