Problem playing in time or some other setting please?

emann · 11-20-2019, 06:18 AM

Hello,

quite new with reaper but trying to familiarize myself with it.

So I am set up with a zoom h6 audio interface routing into reaper with my guitar attached to the zoom. Everything is set up and working ok with regards to routing and having metronome routed to my headphones and the sound routed to two monitors.

I am trying to keep my time with the metronome at 90 bpm (or whatever bpm for that case) and playing a blues shuffle G, C, D but no matter how slightly I vary my strumming speed I cannot align the waveform with the beat of reaper...I am attaching a screen shot to show what I mean and I am not sure if it is because of myself not playing in time or some setting (learning on latency still!) or some other modification I can do in the software itself.

As you can note the waveform mostly always starts a bit earlier and I cannot get it to start on the vertical line which I believe denotes the start of the bar and the beats in the bar with the tick of the metronome.

I would appreciate any help you can provide please.
Thanks to all.

Fabian · 11-20-2019, 06:32 AM

Maybe there is some issue with the delay that your interface reports to Reaper. First of all, make sure you are using ASIO, click the text in the upper right corner of Reaper and on the dialog that appears select ASIO. Maybe you have to install the ASIO driver, if you haven't already, it can be downloaded from the Zoom H6 web site.

If you already have ASIO, or installing it does not fix the issue, you could try different buffer size settings. Those are also available from that same dialog as the ASIO setting. In addition, there are settings in the preferences for manually adjusting the offset, I think if you search the settings (using the small search box to the lower left on the Preferences dialog) for "offset" you will find them

Looking at the picture, it looks quite consistent timing-wise, just with an offset. I would suggest to just slip edit the waveform, Alt+drag on Windows, so that it better fits the grid.

domzy · 11-20-2019, 06:36 AM

maybe try recording with "preserve PDC in recorded item.." ticked (right click the record button of the track)

emann · 11-20-2019, 07:48 AM

Thanks to all for suggestions.

Will check later with new settings. I am using ASIO4ALL drivers and do not have any issues, as far as I am aware on the setup. As for the buffer, should I increase or decrease this number. Also if I go for offset, do I increase or decrease the offset. Not sure to understand slip edit the waveform...I hold ALT and drag with the mouse to align? does the command quantise help to do this?

Will also try PDC recording...what does this actually do please.

emann · 11-20-2019, 02:19 PM

So I confirm using ASIO as driver and also tried the option preserve PDC in recorded item.

I was not sure to what number to modify the buffer or offset and hence I opted to give you a screen shot of these settings.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oZkdSEkSVKAD5aQR8 (copy and paste in browser)

I tried the ALT+Drag and it works fine however I would very much prefer that the system is setup with myself playing on the metronome beat and the waveform being placed correctly at the start of the bar.

So I need more help and hope these screen shots can indicate something to you. Let me know if i need to provide more information.

thanks to all who can chime in.

dug dog · 11-20-2019, 08:00 PM

Here's a slick method for calculating the required offset.

https://reaperblog.net/2018/11/rec_latency_offset/

grinder · 11-21-2019, 12:47 AM

If that is an acoustic guitar recording I would consider it as perfectly acceptable in my world the blush/bloom of an acoustic guitar chord occurs after
the strum... nice timing to me.

Grinder

emann · 11-21-2019, 01:46 AM

@dugdog: that is an interesting post...will look into it.

@grinder: that is good to know...so you consider it ok and no need to do any modifications?...what about if i layer over soloing practice on an electric guitar in another track...i guess i would still follow the click of the metronome and the same should happen or would it sound offset and not on the same tempo.

dug dog · 11-21-2019, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emann

i guess i would still follow the click of the metronome and the same should happen or would it sound offset and not on the same tempo.

If you perform the loopback test I recommended, there will be no reason for any further guess work.

karbomusic · 11-21-2019, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dug dog

If you perform the loopback test I recommended, there will be no reason for any further guess work.

^This.

After that is done, the thing to consider is that some of this depends on how the player takes their timing queues when recording. Meaning...

1. Some players play a note on their instrument, wait for that to come out of the monitors, compare how it aligns with the click their ear, adjust and play the next note.
2. Others, compare the physical vibration in their wrist with the click, ignoring the note coming out of the speakers, adjust and play the next note.

One of these (#2) causes PDC to over compensate and if the player has tight enough timing resolution, and they fall under #2, PDC will make things sound off FWIW. But the way to begin taking care of that is first figuring out which kind of player you are #1 or #2.

grinder · 11-21-2019, 11:24 AM

Personally I went through the thing of because the bars are there
try to get every instrument hitting at the same time.
Getting a groove though is different sometimes a lead guitar leads sometimes a vocal leads, a bass well if you want a low down groove the bass drum and the Bass lead that gives you that deep down stomach power feel.
I place the instruments now where I would when a band has that exciting sound when every instrument is exciting. This does not mean they strike at the same time.
Hey I try and I am getting better at it.
In my present music the tune I have has the vocal when it comes in always is just slightly ahead of the rest except the bass.
I think the effect is if you have one instrument pushing and pulsating with the others it is hard to beat not only more emotional to listen to but also easier to mix.
Timing is essential of course needing to hit the same dot is not.

My ten cents worth.
I am a learner too.

Grinder

emann · 11-21-2019, 02:20 PM

thanks again to all for responding.

Did the latency test and got a result of 297 and placed this value in the offset in preferences.

I then recorded this shuffle at 90bpm and instead of the metronome used a drum track which sort of placed everything in a better groove.

I am attaching a picture of the waveforms against the bars now and also made up enough courage to attach the mp3 file as well.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1icu...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SVT...ew?usp=sharing

Can you please all have a look and let me know what you think for both the waveforms against the bars and more importantly how does it sound...especially if in time.

Thanks a million