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12-14-2018, 02:46 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Pa
Posts: 440
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Microphone Question
So I've got some questions about microphones. I understand that one Mic may sound different depending on who uses it. But my question is more about the technical side.
If I was recording a singer who is singing very forceably and loudly what type of Mic “ might” capture this Well? What I'm referring to might be, condenser/dynamic/tube/ribbon, cardio, spl, etc. Does any of this matter or is it just a matter of distance and singing technique?
I record vocals of this type more often than a quiet type of vocal.
Hopefully what I'm asking is clear.
Thanks,
Don…..
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Don.....
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12-14-2018, 03:20 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA
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For the style you describe, a dynamic mic is the best choice- SM57, RE20, etc. Use a pop filter, and although I should but seldom do, a peak limiter when recording.
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12-14-2018, 03:26 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
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or a ribbon even better for a loud signal
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12-14-2018, 04:02 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
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Ribbons are fragile with loud signals. Shure sm7b puts the capsule an inch away so you can't be right on it.
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12-14-2018, 04:08 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Ribbons are fragile with loud signals.
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Even more fragile with bursts of air like a singer. It's very specific in my Royer 121 manual to not even carry the mic across the room with your arms swinging unless it is in it's protective sock FYI. That's less likely with cheaper ribbons that already have an internal wire mesh grille and/or foam but those eat away at frequency response IMHO. They are typically far less electrically sensitive due to low output but that in no way means screaming into one is necessarily a good idea.
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12-14-2018, 05:53 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Large diaphragm cardioid condensers are used almost universally for recording vocals (and almost everything else in pro studios).
Some mics come with a "pad" switch to knock-down loud signals, but that's usually only required if you stick the mic in front of a kick-drum or guitar amp (or maybe a trumpet). I doubt a loud singer would overload a typical condenser (at the proper distance).
You could also move the mic back a bit (but not to the point where you're picking-up too much room sound) and maybe use a pop filter to keep a constant-controlled distance.
In general, a strong signal is a good thing... It helps to overcome acoustic noise as well as preamp noise.
Quote:
I understand that one Mic may sound different depending on who uses it.
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I'm not sure what that means... Different mics sound differnet and different singers sound different.
The biggest difference in sound character/quality between mics is frequency response (and that can be "adjusted" with EQ). That's assuming cardioid (directional) mics. Off-axis frequency response also has some effect on indirect/reflected sound. Pro recording engineers do sometimes choose a mic that enhances or complements a particular singer, but that's usually related to tone/timbre of the singer and the frequency response of the mic, not the loudness of the singer.
Dynamic mics don't have any internal electronics do they don't overload easily. An Sm57/58 (dynamic) can handle up to 150dB SPL and at that level it puts-out a signal strong enough that it doesn't need a preamp! SM57's are often used for snare drums and guitar amps.
Last edited by DVDdoug; 12-14-2018 at 05:59 PM.
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12-14-2018, 06:50 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Japan
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I'm not a huge fan of what it does to my voice, and I'm considered pretty powerful.... But the SM7b is THE loud vocals mic to try first.
It's gonna sound weird, but for my own voice, the AT4040 sounds wonderful. Especially when I belt like a madman.
But mics are very, VERY personal.. My advice is to find a place that rents out mics, and try them all till you hit gold.
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12-15-2018, 03:40 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
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My guess is that professional opera singers might outblast most rock voices ...and surely not many versions of La Traviatta were recorded with an SM58?
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12-15-2018, 03:52 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
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12-15-2018, 06:12 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martifingers
My guess is that professional opera singers might outblast most rock voices ...and surely not many versions of La Traviatta were recorded with an SM58?
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That’s an area where you’ll see mostly DPA omni’s, at a 1 to 1,5 meter distance, capturing the performance with a lot of the room included...
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12-15-2018, 08:32 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Even more fragile with bursts of air like a singer. It's very specific in my Royer 121 manual to not even carry the mic across the room with your arms swinging unless it is in it's protective sock FYI. That's less likely with cheaper ribbons that already have an internal wire mesh grille and/or foam but those eat away at frequency response IMHO. They are typically far less electrically sensitive due to low output but that in no way means screaming into one is necessarily a good idea.
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Not AEA ribbon. Great with loud signal - POP FILTER is a must. I needn't stress this, do I?
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12-15-2018, 09:33 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urednik
Not AEA ribbon. Great with loud signal - POP FILTER is a must. I needn't stress this, do I?
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The opening question sort of implies not knowing a huge amount about mics, and it's also usually assumed they aren't asking for a $1000-$3000 answer. So yea, might be helpful to include and stress the details. That said, it's a ribbon, it doesn't like air, that should always be part of the answer IMHO when the ask is about screaming into one.
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12-15-2018, 02:39 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2016
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While I admit I don't know much about microphone specifics I have to point out I never said screaming. There's a difference between loud with force and screaming.
Beyond that I will try some of the suggestions offered. I have a couple of 421's which I've used on drums. I also have a cheap MXl ribbon which I'll try as well. I've tried some sm 57's but didn't like the results. But I'm willing to try again.
Thanks for all the responses.
Don.....
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12-15-2018, 02:51 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsealer
While I admit I don't know much about microphone specifics I have to point out I never said screaming. There's a difference between loud with force and screaming.
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The choice of the word was only to iterate that breath into a ribbon is typically a bad thing which is a result of all of the above. Seems to be a picky day for word usage. Second or third post where I've tried to help someone which results in word mincing though the point being made was both correct and pretty obvious.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 12-15-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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12-15-2018, 03:39 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun
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Not forgetting, of course:
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/vocal-mics
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12-15-2018, 03:47 PM
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#16
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,047
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Screaming is usually a lot lot lot lot, and today especially, a LOT quieter than normal "loud" singing. It even gets quiet enough that the quietness itself is a major problem especially with the so called "suckers"
Just being pedantic here
And in other news, its nice to have the "right" mic artistically, but if your song can't hold up through a 57 or 58, the song was doomed before the recording began
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12-15-2018, 06:04 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
Screaming is usually a lot lot lot lot, and today especially, a LOT quieter than normal "loud" singing. It even gets quiet enough that the quietness itself is a major problem especially with the so called "suckers"
Just being pedantic here
And in other news, its nice to have the "right" mic artistically, but if your song can't hold up through a 57 or 58, the song was doomed before the recording began
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Always remember Stevie Wonder could sing the yellow pages into an answering machine and make it a hit.
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12-15-2018, 09:13 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,205
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See how much distance you can put between them and the mic, if your room allows it. This will eliminate problems with air movement and give you the richest tone, because yelling resonates the entire face and you want to capture the whole image if possible. The sound from the vocal chords is just the unpleasant high mids.
Don't get too married to the isolated vocal - if you're hearing a lot of room in the isolated vocal but it works in the mix, that's the best of both worlds. Don't make problems where there doesn't need to be any.
I would motion for a good quality condensor vs a dynamic... or both. Using two mics can give you a lot of control. e.g. intros and quiet verses you may rely on one mic but find the chorus benefits from the other, or a mixture (be sure to phase align).
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12-16-2018, 12:20 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
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If you have a room to support it, it's almost always a good idea to move the mic back a bit from the vocalist.
It's also usually a good idea not to point it straight into their mouth. No matter what kind of mic you're using, you don't want that blast of air from a loud P or B going straight into the diaphragm. Maybe it'll kill a ribbon, but it's still going to be a massive mess even in a 58. Point it up or down or sideways. Just don't point it straight on.
Something I've heard about but never bothered with is giving them a 58 to eat and a LDC in a more sensible position.
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12-16-2018, 03:14 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
if your song can't hold up through a 57 or 58, the song was doomed before the recording began
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That is really so true
Actually, a 57/58 with a decent preamp is a good choice for many budget home-studios.
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12-16-2018, 03:49 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
And in other news, its nice to have the "right" mic artistically, but if your song can't hold up through a 57 or 58, the song was doomed before the recording began
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truth, right there
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