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Old 05-07-2010, 12:48 AM   #1
AndrasFL
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Default Reaper doesn't play first MIDI note at cursor postion

When I set curser on the beginning of a midifile and hit play, Reaper doesn´t play the first notes. I´m on version 3.51.
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:56 AM   #2
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Confirmed. This bug is here for a long time!
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:59 AM   #3
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Can't confirm this. No bug here.

Make sure to disable "Tiny fade in on playback start".


@devs: If that's enabled by default I would suggest to disable it for new users!
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:04 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Can't confirm this. No bug here.

Make sure to disable "Tiny fade in on playback start".


@devs: If that's enabled by default I would suggest to disable it for new users!
Same here (is it internal or external midi?) and i agree tiny fade should be off by default.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:05 AM   #5
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I'll re-check when I get back home, but I'm very sure tiny fadein is turned OFF on my Reaper, and I still don't get first note playing when i.e. triggering Kontakt (among other plugins)...
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:32 AM   #6
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+1 on the tiny fades, very anoying

If you are inserting a midi file from the browser sometimes it will do that if you drag out the file, i cant recreate the problem here though
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:44 PM   #7
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I can't reproduce with "tiny fades" active. I would be worried if that setting would affect MIDI. I'd call that a bug, but as said here it doesn't. There must be something else to it.
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
I can't reproduce with "tiny fades" active. I would be worried if that setting would affect MIDI. I'd call that a bug, but as said here it doesn't. There must be something else to it.
But with tiny fade active you get lower audio output on playback start. If you have midi stuff playing low velocity (causing low audio output) + tiny fade could lead in "missing" (quiet) audio ...
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Old 05-07-2010, 03:16 PM   #9
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...but only if the duration of the sound the MIDI drives is tiny as well.

I thought you meant "tiny fades" would cause the first MIDI note to play with low velocity, like the item fade handles do. That would have been a bummer .
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:38 AM   #10
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Default Tiny fades should go die in a fire as far as MIDI is concerned

It may be great for audio items, but it has been wrongfully transplanted into the MIDI department imnsho.
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:59 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrasFL View Post
When I set curser on the beginning of a midifile and hit play, Reaper doesn´t play the first notes. I´m on version 3.51.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Confirmed. This bug is here for a long time!
Can one of you two post a .rpp file that shows the problem (and include your reaper.ini file too)?

Is the "Enable MIDI velocity autofade/crossfade" preference set?
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Old 05-09-2010, 09:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banned View Post
It may be great for audio items, but it has been wrongfully transplanted into the MIDI department imnsho.
You can easily deactivate auto fades (on split/insert) and autocrossfades for MIDI. As said, I don't believe "tiny fades on play/stop" affect the MIDI side of things. So all is good in that respect, apart from the issue described in the OP which I still can't reproduce, so they don't seem to be related directly to "tiny fades".
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:21 AM   #13
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Checked. Doesn't work. Here's a small demo project utilizing Synth1 (free). First long note doesn't get played, or gets played only sporadically, after few start-stop spacebar presses. Very erratic.

Attachment 7957

Just press spacebar continuously every 1 second, and you'll hear that the first note doesn't get played absolutely every time. Annoying.

Please fix this!

Last edited by EvilDragon; 11-04-2010 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Checked. Doesn't work. Here's a small demo project utilizing Synth1 (free). First long note doesn't get played, or gets played only sporadically, after few start-stop spacebar presses. Very erratic.

Attachment 7957

Just press spacebar continuously every 1 second, and you'll hear that the first note doesn't get played absolutely every time. Annoying.
Can't reproduce this. Working fine here all the time.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:41 AM   #15
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Oh damn. Found the culprit!


It's "Send all notes off on stop/play". Really, this option should be only on stop, NOT on play.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:49 AM   #16
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Works fine here too
-- v3.45 (yep, I'm a Luddite) and Asynth (don't have Synth 1)

@ED - does it work perfectly if the clip starts on say 5.1.00? (I was thinking that some VSTis may take a small amount of time to get revved up)

Setting "All notes off on play/stop" does not cause any problems here.
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:51 AM   #17
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I guess we'll have to make yet another macro to replace the current STOP behavior?

- stop
- send note-offs first



But seriously I agree. Why send note-off on play?
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:06 AM   #18
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Ok, confirmed (using ReaSynth). The track needs to be record armed and 'monitor input' to trigger the issue. Changing either of those settings cures the issue. "Tiny fades on play/stop" doesn't change anything.

EDIT: Heck, yes, seems to be the 'all notes off' setting included as well. Tricky beast.

EDIT #2: and now that thing has cured out of the blue? (tested with a new project tab, and at the moment I don't see the issue, even with the original.

Last edited by gofer; 05-10-2010 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:27 AM   #19
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If I turn "All notes off on play/stop" OFF, it works normally. Every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
@ED - does it work perfectly if the clip starts on say 5.1.00? (I was thinking that some VSTis may take a small amount of time to get revved up)
Yeah, if edit cursor was at 1.1.00 then it works. No worries, culprit was found and vanquished!
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
If I turn "All notes off on play/stop" OFF, it works normally. Every time.
I have turned it on and I still can't reproduce your problem. "All notes off on play/stop" only sends all-notes-off to MIDI hardware, not plugins.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:43 AM   #21
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Then I really dunno why it happens over here.
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Old 05-10-2010, 10:58 AM   #22
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DarkStar, Dstruct,

did you try to start Reaper with ED's project, as opposed to open the project in an already running instance of Reaper? This seems to make all the difference here.

EDIT: No, not true. I can (at the moment) reproduce with my own default project and a new item without ED's project involved.

Last edited by gofer; 05-10-2010 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:14 AM   #23
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Gofer, true! With my test project, if I unarm the track, it plays the first note every time.


This still counts as a bug in my book.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:31 AM   #24
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Also when you leave it armed, but change the monitoring to either tape auto style or off.

Record arm, Monitor input enabled and the "all-notes-off" preference ticked have all to come together to trigger the issue. I guess there's even more settings needed, if Dstruct and DarkStar cannot reproduce still.
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:31 PM   #25
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-- started by double-clicking the .rpp
-- bypassed Synth 1, added Asynth
-- left Record Armed and Monitor Input on,
-- opened Prefs, set "on Play/Stop send All Notes off"

=>> played first note Ok every time (20 times)
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Old 05-10-2010, 01:33 PM   #26
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Maybe A4A is to blame, then... :/ But then again, I got the same dropouts even with DirectSound. I'm running out of ideas. Maybe you really need to have Synth1 to test it, as I created this test project like this:

* open Reaper
* load Synth1
* click-drag empty MIDI item
* open MIDI editor
* add the two notes
* place the item to 1.1.00
* play
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Old 05-10-2010, 02:03 PM   #27
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As I already said: No such problems here (even with Synth1). RME ASIO drivers (if it matters) ...
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:51 PM   #28
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I reproduce with ReaSynth and a Tascam FireOne. I've got no clue whatsoever. Wonder whether it's new for me or I just never noticed.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
I reproduce with ReaSynth and a Tascam FireOne. I've got no clue whatsoever. Wonder whether it's new for me or I just never noticed.
.rpp please.
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:46 AM   #30
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No problem, but it doesn't look much different from ED's example.

The weird thing is the inconsistency. Right now the offending note plays more often than when I last looked yesterday. Say it fails one out of 3 times, while yesterday it succeeded maybe 1 out of 6 times (with the occasional lucky series of 3 or 4 good starts).
Attached Files
File Type: rpp 1stNote_gofer.RPP (4.7 KB, 302 views)

Last edited by gofer; 05-11-2010 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:14 AM   #31
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I wanted to get as close as possible to the problem project (I don't have the multimeter though).

That one plays back fine here too (pressing spacebar every second to play/stop). It must be "outside" Reaper.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:01 AM   #32
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Oh, sorry, forgot to clean up the master track. Multimeter is bypassed in my default project. Deleting it makes no difference here.

I changed that attachment, doesn't contain Multimeter anymore
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:49 AM   #33
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Default Issue remains in Reaper v4

Resurrecting this thread for Reaper 4 with a RPP and youtube
video of confirmation. As ED pointed out, it's the Send all
note off on playback start issue, turning it off solves
the problem.


Youtube

Standalone .RPP with ReaSynth in attachment.

Devs, give us seperate settings of send note off for plaback
start and stop, or just dich the start note offs (have no clue
why this would be used anyway).

Is there a bug report in issue tracker yet?

e
Attached Files
File Type: zip bug_firstmidinote_playback_report.zip (1.9 KB, 189 views)
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Old 12-19-2011, 01:28 PM   #34
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This one still exists in v 4.14. But mine is a bit different from what Eric sees there. I will hear a short blip of the offending first note while for him it seems to be completely missing.

I always get it when
1) preference is set to send all notes off on stop/play
2) track is record armed and
3) track monitoring is set to input (not auto) and enabled
4) playback starts directly at or during a MIDI note

if one of those is not true I reliably won't have the issue.

Looking at the MIDI log taken when the first note fails:


that's the typical log I get out of this situation, mind the All Notes Off after the Note On of the first played note.


At some rare times I get an even stranger log out of the same situation:


there is an odd Note Off as the very first message. The All Notes Off is misplaced again.

Then at times it plays and looks alright, like in Eric's vid. The fail rate seems to depend on how many moons are full over Jupiter. Mostly fails.

There is no VSTi or FX in the project, other than ReaControlMIDI logging.
Attached Images
File Type: png removeme_AllnotesOff_Start_glitch.png (50.1 KB, 1519 views)
File Type: png removeme_AllnotesOff_Start_glitch2.png (8.9 KB, 1461 views)

Last edited by gofer; 12-19-2011 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:21 PM   #35
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Ah-ha! I think the actual culprit is a too small Media buffer size (Preferences -> Audio -> Buffering). For some reason I set both, the amount in ms and the percentage settings fairly low (way back then... and never realized problems with it beside this one). With the default settings it seems to always work for me.

What's a bit odd is that I have both options to disable media buffering checked. The track is selected and a MIDI editor is open, so both criteria are met to disable media buffering. Yet the setting has a clear and very real effect on this issue. Weird.

That too small a media buffer can have such a drastic effect on the MIDI stream (without VSTi involved) while audio works problem free strikes me as remarkable.

Last edited by gofer; 12-19-2011 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:15 PM   #36
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Default Can confirm, STILL broken

Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
I can't reproduce with "tiny fades" active. I would be worried if that setting would affect MIDI. I'd call that a bug, but as said here it doesn't. There must be something else to it.
I was having the issue as well. I just turned off tiny fades, and it works for me now too. This can't be considered anything other than a bug.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:12 PM   #37
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2020 and this annoying bug still here!
ouch!!!

devs?
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Old 01-31-2022, 07:36 AM   #38
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I've encounter the same issue, the first note is skipped, or just part of it is played.

I've tried all that was recommended in this thread, but it's still the same way
In this clip only half of the kick note is played on the first beat.

https://youtu.be/PI3azvBiYU4
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Old 02-01-2022, 02:35 AM   #39
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I had the same problem. I realized for me that it came when we created the new midi item. You have to create it with the snap to grid enabled if I remember correctly. Otherwise there is the problem of the first note that we do not hear.
edit : the first note shifts relative to the grid. I manage to reproduce the problem but only with the note that shifts to the right when you zoom in, so it's not a problem to hear it when you put the cursor on the grid to start playback. Before, the note shifted slightly to the left of the grid, so we couldn't hear it except by activating the "chase midi..." option, I think.

Last edited by tohubohu; 02-01-2022 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 02-01-2022, 03:37 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tohubohu View Post
I had the same problem. I realized for me that it came when we created the new midi item. You have to create it with the magnet activated if I remember correctly. Otherwise there is the problem of the first note that we do not hear.
edit : the first note shifts relative to the grid. I manage to reproduce the problem but only with the note that shifts to the right when you zoom in, so it's not a problem to hear it when you put the cursor on the grid to start playback. Before, the note shifted slightly to the left of the grid, so we couldn't hear it except by activating the "chase midi..." option, I think.
I don't exactly understand what you mean by magnet, you mean snap to grid?

The notes are dead on the beat, but it still plays only part of it. Could it be some setting that I switched in the preferrences?
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