Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER for Linux

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2021, 12:20 PM   #1
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
audiojunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Default It hurts my pride to admit it, but.....

Although I love Debian, when it comes to music creation apps, Debian is nothing without the KXStudio repository. I think Arch's AUR is a sufficiently-enough better solution when it comes to software availability, that I'm getting ready to move to Arch.

FalkTX is doing a fantastic job with the KXStudio repositories--he's beyond super-human! But how much can one man reliably and continuously do? All it takes is for FalkTX to get sick (or heaven forbid, die), and the entire Debian family of distros (including Ubuntu, MX & Mint) are essentially shot in the foot when it comes to music apps--unless Gmaq or someone else were to step up to make a repository available.

I've been researching long and hard to find the best distro for my long, long term usage--one that won't go away when a person or small group of persons leave the project, and yet isn't backed by corporate control--community driven. This led me to the Debian and Arch families.

I just went through, one by one each of the apps that I would be wanting in both the Debian repositories (as well as the added KXStudio repositories) VS the AUR, and in the end, the AUR wins out.

The kernels are available for both families out of the box. Both have advanced (Debian, Arch) and easy (Ubuntu, MX Linux, Mint or Manjaro or EndeavorOS) distros. Both can be as bleeding edge as the other. But, for someone who doesn't want to bother tracking down and compiling source for each and every app, Arch's AUR wins out. The AUR is not run and managed and kept up by a single person like KXStudio--it's distributed amongst many, many people, and it's all in one place.

Furthermore, I learned about the ArchInstall script, and I think that will make Arch installs very easy (compared to what it would be without the script). :-)

Manjaro is a great distro, don't get me wrong, as is UbuntuStudio, but I don't like corporate control--and there is no doubt that Manjaro has that. That's fine for most people, but not something I'm interested in.

So...... I think I'm going to have to swallow my pride about Debian being the ideal, and make my move to the Arch family. :-)
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 01:28 PM   #2
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,939
Default

Arch's repos are great. I was surprised you didn't notice it before when you were talking about Debian being your preference. And I think whether it's Debian or Arch, you're going to have to do a similar amount of work to make the distro the way you prefer. I'd just choose Arch in that case.

I'm sticking with Manjaro for now since the Manjaro team appears to be on the level, not trying to pull any nonsense like Canonical. If that changes, I'll use Arch.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 01:57 PM   #3
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
audiojunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Arch's repos are great. I was surprised you didn't notice it before when you were talking about Debian being your preference. And I think whether it's Debian or Arch, you're going to have to do a similar amount of work to make the distro the way you prefer. I'd just choose Arch in that case.

I'm sticking with Manjaro for now since the Manjaro team appears to be on the level, not trying to pull any nonsense like Canonical. If that changes, I'll use Arch.
Well..... One of the key things I wanted was multi-architecture support, which Debian has in spades. However, I discovered that there is an Arch for ARM distro (Arch Linux ARM), which pretty much covers what SBC stuff I would have been wanting to do in the first place...

It's all about constant learning. ;-)
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 06:23 PM   #4
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 650
Default

Having just one linux may be fine for Aunt Matilda e-mailing
the knitting group, but I recommend having one ubuntu studio,
one avlinux, one older Puppy linux (I like Bionic 64),
and one specialist setup, in your case, an Arch setup of some type?
This gives you old, new, and two pre-configured, debian setups from different coders/maintainers. It also gives you freedom to attempt some bleeding edge activities, while keeping three setups for recording if an experiment thuds the granite.

Puppy for portability/security, and a fully functioning older audacity

Ubuntu Studio for a working official nVidia graphics card support, for those
impressive high-end gui's, KX, and synaptic

AVLinux for preconfigured audio, and extra-configured filemanager utilities,
with wine and jackd ready to go, KX, and synaptic.

And a specialist setup like some Arch version, where 'new and improved' are often on the carton, and some serious package maintenance has proven to be
on-going and successful.

Fear not the hurtful byte, or drives that go 'thump' in dark of night.
Cheers
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2021, 07:54 PM   #5
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,939
Default

Everything you described is easily possible in a single distro on a single computer. Then keep backups if you want to do risky things such as use kernels in testing or making changes to packages contrary to the dependencies specified by the distro.

But, use whatever distro(s) you wish. I just wouldn't want to make people assume they "need" a particular distro for one thing or another, as though they couldn't have security in Arch for instance. Or that they couldn't use a newer Linux VST plugin in Ubuntu. And so on.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 12:45 AM   #6
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 650
Default

You're glossing over special defaults, capabilities, distro-specific configurations, and age related issues for certain apps and their dependencies no longer supported in the latest bestest...

I disagree that anyone could "easily" accomplish the capabilities of the
setups I mentioned in a single distro. You'd spend all your time reinventing wheels, have few creative juices left to record your own music, and be vulnerable to both hardware and software support issues of a homebrew jambalaya distro, that would never have come to life in the natural state of distinct linux versions.

You can accomplish great things with most any single distro, but there are
reasons that so many distros came into being, and that some are maintained even several years later.

A multi-distro setup doesn't cost a fortune, and it can be assembled over time. For example, a Puppy linux will offer to create an expandable encryptable savefile where you want it. Get a pair of external drives for avl and ubuntu, and put arch-xyz on an internal drive.

Especially for those new to linux, this gives opportunity to test the waters,
find what they like best, and without sinking the ship in a storm. Plenty of people tried linux and gave up because some storm had them starting over from scratch each time, and it was far more work than play.

If you see and promote things from the viewpoint of an expert, remember none of us started out that way, and some don't want or need to end up that way, and it's easy to forget how many hours and years passed by, and that new users are just entering the fray. Recommending well configured mature, and complete distros to those new to linux is common sense.

Considering the current mess between Reaper prefs text, and the newest wine releases, considering the invasion of pipewire while jack and pulse are barely maintaining a tenuous truce, considering the pure system vs system D,
considering which plugin wrapper to use, which daw(s) to use...all these and more can distract the new user from ever pressing the golden record button.
And recording our music in OUR choice of environments, is the bottom line.
What wonderful fortune to have so many great options to choose from.

All that said, any linux community would be far better off with a hundred people like James, who back up their talk with their walk, and are quick to offer quality help as the opportunities present themselves.
Cheers
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 09:24 AM   #7
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
audiojunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
Having just one linux may be fine for Aunt Matilda e-mailing
the knitting group, but I recommend having one ubuntu studio,
one avlinux, one older Puppy linux (I like Bionic 64),
and one specialist setup, in your case, an Arch setup of some type?
This gives you old, new, and two pre-configured, debian setups from different coders/maintainers. It also gives you freedom to attempt some bleeding edge activities, while keeping three setups for recording if an experiment thuds the granite.

Puppy for portability/security, and a fully functioning older audacity

Ubuntu Studio for a working official nVidia graphics card support, for those
impressive high-end gui's, KX, and synaptic

AVLinux for preconfigured audio, and extra-configured filemanager utilities,
with wine and jackd ready to go, KX, and synaptic.

And a specialist setup like some Arch version, where 'new and improved' are often on the carton, and some serious package maintenance has proven to be
on-going and successful.

Fear not the hurtful byte, or drives that go 'thump' in dark of night.
Cheers
Many of the distros you mention are one (or possibly 2 man) projects. It wouldn't take much for many of these distros to go under. For example, look at AV Linux--what would happen to the AV Linux distro if Gmaq became incapacitated?

One of my original goals, was to learn enough about Linux that I could stick with a single distro long term, and be independent enough that I wouldn't require a specialized audio distro. That meant that I had to learn how to configure a system properly for low latency and have the apps available.

Ubuntu Studio's standing was questionable for a few months, but I think it's sturdy now and has a good governance team, so I think it's safe. But, I don't want to do things the way they do. I want to do thigs my way (yes, I guess I'm a control freak). Ubuntu Studio's got everything, including the kitchen sink added to their distro, including (in my opinion) ancient, outdated, lower quality or irrelevant apps. I see JACK as being like ReWire--no longer necessary--an old technology that was useful until LV2 (and later VST) came along. I don't want all that ugly old crap on my machine! :-D

I want a solid community-driven distro that is free of corporate influence. A distro that is likely to last and grow, not fade away into irrelevance or die along with a single developer. I want multi-architecture support for my SBC hobby projects, and good hardware support. I want that distro to have the largest repository available to me that is not supported by a single developer, has the relevant apps I want, and is up-to-date. I want low latency kernels to be available for installation. I want to be able to choose what Desktop environment I want and what applications I want. I want to be able to get fixes fast when something breaks. I want all of this to be easy.

Arch is nearly as easy as any other distro, once it is installed. The truly hard part of Arch is installing it. And, now with the newly added ArchInstall script, even the installation has been made much easier. :-)

I don't expect others--Linux Newbies coming straight from Windows land to use what I use. I don't expect others to have to learn what I'm trying to learn and be able to do what I'm trying to learn to do. Ideally, I would like to see a distro that checks all of the boxes I mentioned above, while being simply plug and play. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist. Debian can currently do everything I would want it to do. However, everything hinges on the work of FalkTX and his KXStudio repositories. That isn't reassuring. Ubuntu is dead easy, but has a ton of bloat that I don't like, and is corporately controlled, and relies on KXStudio just like Debian. AV Linux is like KXStudio--the work of a single man, which isn't reassuring. Fedora has smaller repositories than even Debian, and Planet CCRMA hasn't been updated at all this year, so there is no low latency kernel. Arch, on the other hand, ticks every single box, except being "easy". Manjaro and EndeavorOS are close seconds.

One of the things I would like to do is have a single OS set-up that does everything well--similar to MacOS, rather than having to have four separate specialized single purpose distros. I think Ubuntu's idea of using a low-latency kernel over a RT kernel is the right way for me. The current proprietary NVIDIA, VirtualBox, VMware Workstation/Player and some other dkms modules builds (ie Wifi) do not officially support RT kernels. Plan on not having access to these things while using a RT kernel. I want to be able to use Virtual box for Android-related apps and distro testing. I want to be able to use dkms modules and NVIDIA drivers as I see fit without problems. Of course, I could simply choose different kernels at boot time. :-)

I guess the point of it all is this--I want to do things my way, and Arch seems to be the best for that--for me. :-)
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 09:50 AM   #8
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 6,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiojunkie View Post
Many of the distros you mention are one (or possibly 2 man) projects. It wouldn't take much for many of these distros to go under. For example, look at AV Linux--what would happen to the AV Linux distro if Gmaq became incapacitated?
That's exactly what happened to me with MythBuntu which was a ready to go version of Ubuntu with MythTV already setup and ready to go.

Around v16.04 they quit the MythBuntu project and recommended Xubuntu and install MythTV yourself, which I did and later switched six more machines in the house to Xubuntu. I switched my DAW machine to Manjaro a month or so back though.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 10:18 AM   #9
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
audiojunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
That's exactly what happened to me with MythBuntu which was a ready to go version of Ubuntu with MythTV already setup and ready to go.

Around v16.04 they quit the MythBuntu project and recommended Xubuntu and install MythTV yourself, which I did and later switched six more machines in the house to Xubuntu. I switched my DAW machine to Manjaro a month or so back though.
If you go far enough back, I'd be willing to be there have been over 20 distros that were once really well known for catering to musicians. Nearly every one of them has died over the years. It's not really an "IF", but rather a "WHEN". I don't want to be stuck in a situation like that. It's better that I learn how to set things up and configure things independently, and the document it so that I can repeat it when I need to reinstall, rather than relying on a one-man distro. That's my thinking at least. :-)
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 10:57 AM   #10
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 6,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiojunkie View Post
If you go far enough back, I'd be willing to be there have been over 20 distros that were once really well known for catering to musicians. Nearly every one of them has died over the years. It's not really an "IF", but rather a "WHEN". I don't want to be stuck in a situation like that. It's better that I learn how to set things up and configure things independently, and the document it so that I can repeat it when I need to reinstall, rather than relying on a one-man distro. That's my thinking at least. :-)
The very first Linux I ever installed was Mythbuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron back in 2008, so I got about 8 years out of Mythbuntu before they pulled the plug. That's for a dedicated HDTV server that's still running today, although it's MythTV running on Xubuntu, and on my previous DAW hardware now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythbuntu

Quote:
On 4 November 2016 the development team announced the end of Mythbuntu as a separate distribution, citing insufficient developers. The team will continue to maintain the Mythbuntu software repository; the announcement advised new users to install another Ubuntu distribution, then install MythTV from the repository.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 11:59 AM   #11
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 650
Default

The dead distros are still as usable as they were the day before their 'death'. I have many usb, cd and dvd versions, all quite capable, that will work as long as computer manufacturers or political edicts don't lock them out, so storing a few good used computers as bargains are discovered, might be prudent for the long run

The 'old' capabilities and potentials when put to actual use, transcend discussion and opinion. The record button is the key to producing sonic gold, and our musicianship, creativity and inspiration shape it. The first Ubuntu Studio I used had zynaddsubfx and hydrogen, two extremely powerful and versatile instruments both then and now.
Cheers
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 12:29 PM   #12
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 650
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiojunkie View Post
It's better that I learn how to set things up and configure things independently, and the document it so that I can repeat it when I need to reinstall... :-)
No worries, mate, none of the one-man or twenty-man distros is good enough to save you from the linux learning curve. I'm always copy/pasting from the generous folks sharing their knowledge, and sometimes can pass it along. I should paste all the snippets into a rambling e-book. Linux will always be moving target. So be ready to make a run for it!
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 12:52 PM   #13
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
The dead distros are still as usable as they were the day before their 'death'. ...

...The record button is the key to producing sonic gold,
Yeah but come on, you know what they're talking about. You can say that Windows 95 is as useful today as it was when it was first released too.

Anyway other than possibly one thing you mentioned about various distros, I don't see any difficulty doing what you're talking about in Manjaro. I'd avoid Pipewire for the moment because I'm not stubborn enough to deal with its current quirks and lack of GUI interface (I did try it though, and yeah I'll leave that well enough alone until it comes packaged in Manjaro). About an "expandable encryptable savefile": that's something I wouldn't know about, so if Puppy Linux is set up for that by default, I assume it would take some investigation at least before doing that in Manjaro.

And, not that I'm saying people should avoid any particular distro either. Once you get accustomed to using Linux on any distro, you have knowledge you can apply to running another distro. So even if a distro "dies" (drops support, doesn't update), you should be able to move on to another distro fairly easily. There will be some things to configure on the new distro, but otherwise it'll feel very similar overall.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2021, 04:13 AM   #14
Held
Human being with feelings
 
Held's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 326
Default

If you have a bit of experience, Arch is amazing. It only installs the absolute essentials by default which is awesome for audio production because no unnecessary background services get in the way.

I got tripped up the first time because it doesn't even install a DHCP client by default.

To make up for that, the wiki is super extensive and explains everything you need to get professional audio running.

There's no need to install other distributions if you understand what they are doing differently because you can recreate the functionality rather quickly in Arch.

Unless you need a stable system and only want security updates. Then something like Debian would be a better choice. But that's more for servers than desktop.
Held is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2021, 07:52 AM   #15
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
audiojunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 202
Default

I've been looking more into Endeavor OS. It is supposedly "community driven", and I read (but haven't yet confirmed) that it is so close to Arch that it can practically be considered Arch with a graphical installer. Supposedly, it even uses Arch's own repository! I'm not talking about the AUR (which it supports too), but Arch's actual base repository. I'm going to be doing more research on Endeavor OS. It may be exactly the "easy" Arch distro that I'm looking for. :-)

In the meantime, I'll continue learning Arch. It's quite a bit steeper learning curve over Debian. :-)
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 01:59 PM   #16
pax-eterna
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 430
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
Arch's repos are great. I was surprised you didn't notice it before when you were talking about Debian being your preference. And I think whether it's Debian or Arch, you're going to have to do a similar amount of work to make the distro the way you prefer. I'd just choose Arch in that case.

I'm sticking with Manjaro for now since the Manjaro team appears to be on the level, not trying to pull any nonsense like Canonical. If that changes, I'll use Arch.
Yep, ^^^^ this
pax-eterna is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 03:53 PM   #17
SmajjL
Human being with feelings
 
SmajjL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,432
Default

Yeah Manjaro, so be nice, stay good! we are watching you

*me hides*
__________________
:)
SmajjL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 04:34 PM   #18
Coachz
Human being with feelings
 
Coachz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC USA
Posts: 10,332
Default

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=256258
__________________
www.chucktownband.com
Coachz is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.