Old 03-16-2018, 08:41 AM   #1
pepe44
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Default RME vs Antelope

Hi everyone, i´ve been using MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3 for a few years now. I used to have a mac, and using the interface with firewire, worked very stable, since i migrated to windows the Drivers provided by MOTU are very buggy. Many times need to reboot and reinstall the drivers. I tried old drivers and recent ones, all the same on Windows 10. tried different setups and no good at all.

I cant change to win 7 or Xp i use win 10 i want to keep it.

Been looking for a nice replacement converter, with some pre amps in the front and portable, for live and home use mainly. For Mixing

I know RME, the drivers are very good, the converters are nice, the sound is OK.
I just found the Antelope Discrete 4 , looks amazing, features are very good and same price range. I know antelope from some studios i´ve worked before, the clock is excellent and comes with a standard FPGA FX bundle that can be upgraded to premium at anytime. They sound great from what i ´ve heard, a couple of engineers i´ve worked they told me the plugins sound very good.

I Already have a UAD Satellite quad.

My question to you folks is, anyone using one of these Interfaces, any comparisons suggestions that you guys can do ?

Thanks
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:36 AM   #2
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RME has the best drivers, bar none. Antelope can't touch them, despite their clocking and FPGAs and whatnot.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:05 AM   #3
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I've used a number of MOTU interfaces over the years and they're rock solid stable. No exceptions at all. I run them at low latency for live sound work too and they're just perfectly stable. I've used a number of the 896 and 828 models and various aggregate combinations. I haven't used an Ultralite unfortunately. YMMV but the computer downgrade may be to blame here.

I've never heard anything bad about RME. I got more bang for the buck from the Apogee/MOTU combo but the RME products always looked attractive. The analog stages are supposed to be more like Apogee quality than MOTU. On the digital side the RME box usually has one or two really useful features over the similar MOTU model.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:23 AM   #4
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I can recommend the RME UFX.
Never had a problem and loving the TotalMix App (RME‘s routing software).
I added a Lynx Aurora 16 via ADAT for summing OTB and more Line Ins for my
external API Preamps.

The UFX Pres souund solid and very clear, but not so exciting.
Seems to fit what you ask for!
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:38 AM   #5
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I've used a number of MOTU interfaces over the years and they're rock solid stable. No exceptions at all. I run them at low latency for live sound work too and they're just perfectly stable. I've used a number of the 896 and 828 models and various aggregate combinations. I haven't used an Ultralite unfortunately. YMMV but the computer downgrade may be to blame here.

I've never heard anything bad about RME. I got more bang for the buck from the Apogee/MOTU combo but the RME products always looked attractive. The analog stages are supposed to be more like Apogee quality than MOTU. On the digital side the RME box usually has one or two really useful features over the similar MOTU model.
I really like the MOTU , the DSP is great and very functional for mixing..i think i had a bad luck with this unit, bought it in second hand a few years ago..got all my condenser mics blow by the 48+ glad they all cheap stuff..for home use only
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:47 AM   #6
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RME has the best drivers, bar none. Antelope can't touch them, despite their clocking and FPGAs and whatnot.
I agree, rock solid RME drivers! but..FPGA looks great for mix bus
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:53 AM   #7
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I wouldn't conflate FPGA, RME uses it to emulate the Firewire and/or USB chip and for their onboard FX. What makes that special is if a hardware compatibility problem arises they can just reprogram the FGPA via update and voila, no buying of new hardware - it's highly likely this is why their drivers are so stable and able to be updated a decade or more after purchase.

I think the part you care about is FX bundle regardless of the underlying technology.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #8
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I wouldn't conflate FPGA, RME uses it to emulate the Firewire and/or USB chip and for their onboard FX. What makes that special is if a hardware compatibility problem arises they can just reprogram the FGPA via update and voila, no buying of new hardware - it's highly likely this is why their drivers are so stable and able to be updated a decade or more after purchase.

I think the part you care about is FX bundle regardless of the underlying technology.
Yes, my mistake i was more into the FX then the array programing thing!
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:03 PM   #9
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I got a Zen+ recently, and the FPGA effects are really very good. Much better than I was expecting, and worth routing to them via ReaInsert. The ability to have latency-free tracking with effects, especially guitar, is very nice too, if you do a lot of DI recording.

Hopefully soon the plugin controller for the FPGA effects will be released for all Antelope interfaces. One bummer about the FPGA effects is that the latency is not reported at a sample-accurate level (usually around 5 samples off), so it is a pain for parallel processing.

I'm using it via thunderBolt on Mac, so I have the full 32 channels, that is reduced via USB and the latency isn't quite as good I think. Latency isn't so much of a factor though, because the FPGA effects are virtually latency-free (around 2 samples, I believe), but the latency is good anyway.

The routing control software takes a little while to wrap your head around, but gives you absolute control - you can literally route anything anywhere. You get 4 headphone mixers and 1 channel has a very nice reverb for vocal monitoring.

I don't doubt that the RME drivers are more solid, especially for PC, but you do get an awful lot for your money with the Antelope interfaces. The Zen+ has 12 preamps, 4 high impedance inputs, 2 reamp outputs, 2 headphone outputs (and can add more via other input options)...

One other bonus of the Antelope stuff: no breakout cables!

Do have a read of the Antelope threads on Gearslutz though; some people have had issues (no problems whatsoever with mine though).
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:07 PM   #10
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I wouldn't conflate FPGA, RME uses it to emulate the Firewire and/or USB chip and for their onboard FX. What makes that special is if a hardware compatibility problem arises they can just reprogram the FGPA via update and voila, no buying of new hardware - it's highly likely this is why their drivers are so stable and able to be updated a decade or more after purchase.

I think the part you care about is FX bundle regardless of the underlying technology.
Yes, but I believe it is the underlying technology that allows the Antelope FPGA effects to operate at a couple of samples' latency.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:15 PM   #11
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Yes, but I believe it is the underlying technology that allows the Antelope FPGA effects to operate at a couple of samples' latency.
Yep and it's the same reason RME driver latency is almost always less than most all garden variety devices. I wasn't comparing them just stating FPGA is bit of a conflated term. For those who are interested, its basically a blank slate of switches, AKA you can rewire an entirely different piece of hardware by how you program it, instead of physically building new hardware. I've been tempted to get into them (watched a few tutorials) but my DIY plate is farking full right now.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:41 PM   #12
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My RME Fireface 800 just blew up its power supply last Sunday .... After 14 years of use.

Got a new power supply in the mail at the postoffice. Expecting to make the replacement tomorrow.
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Old 03-16-2018, 12:46 PM   #13
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My RME Fireface 800 just blew up its power supply last Sunday .... After 14 years of use.

Got a new power supply in the mail at the postoffice. Expecting to make the replacement tomorrow.
That'll fix it, I repaired mine myself, it's just a replacement of the 10 or so capacitors in the PSU. Slight design flaw in that 3rd party PSU where heat over time kills them - electrolytic caps are prone to this by default. Mine only took about 5 years to die but is because it was in a tight rack and powered on 24/7. It works fantastic now and I replaced with industrial grade caps to be sure.
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:00 PM   #14
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One other bonus of the Antelope stuff: no breakout cables!
There are no breakouts on my UFX+ either. The old Babyface had a breakout, but the new one (Babyface Pro) doesn't.


One other bonus of RME stuff: they have PSUs built in, so no need for the fucking wallwart to power it!
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:41 PM   #15
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There are no breakouts on my UFX+ either. The old Babyface had a breakout, but the new one (Babyface Pro) doesn't.
Cool, I stand corrected

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One other bonus of RME stuff: they have PSUs built in, so no need for the fucking wallwart to power it!
Doesn't bother me, but a consideration if you're adverse to them I guess.

If I were on PC, I'd probably go for RME.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:24 PM   #16
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External PSU is traditionally better minus the walwart part tbh - though I do enjoy the convenience of not having them. Less shielding and hum rejection/interference/placement/design required with external aka both have various tradeoffs. As far as breakout, yea the original Babyface had them, of the three RMEs I own (BF Pro, FF800, UFX) none of those have breakouts.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:31 PM   #17
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External PSU is traditionally better minus the walwart part tbh - though I do enjoy the convenience of not having them. Less shielding and hum rejection/interference/placement/design required with external aka both have various tradeoffs. As far as breakout, yea the original Babyface had them, of the three RMEs I own (BF Pro, FF800, UFX) none of those have breakouts.
The further away from my computer I can get power stuff the better for me!

The Zen+ runs hot enough as it is. I think it would burst into flames if it had internal PSU
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Old 03-16-2018, 04:23 PM   #18
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External PSU is traditionally better minus the walwart part tbh - though I do enjoy the convenience of not having them. Less shielding and hum rejection/interference/placement/design required with external aka both have various tradeoffs.
...
One other big concern for me is grounding. How many wall warts do you have that are 3-wire? Chances are good that the answer is "none".

My FaderPort? 2
My Tascam US-16x08? 2
My M-Audio monitors? 2-wire plug
My office chair van de graaff static-generating carpet mat? no wires

Winter humidity in Flagstaff? 10% on a good day. I have to ground myself to the metal on my desk before I touch anything else.

Since I can't get RANE-quality device grounding (like their HC6S headphone amp), I just have to be more careful. I did a lot of work with CMOS back in the day, and I still deeply respect the damage that ESD can do.

Here's a good article on sound system interconnect from RANE.

http://www.rane.com/note110.html
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:00 PM   #19
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One other big concern for me is grounding. How many wall warts do you have that are 3-wire? Chances are good that the answer is "none".]
Unless the device carries audio, that dedicated ground is irrelevant aka faderport. Others are also isolated by design hence the lack of need no? I have wallwarts everywhere and no ground loops or issues at all. If you only mean static concerns, I only have that problem with one of my laptops - bad design, the top is polished aluminum alloy and every time I touch it on a dry day, it resets the USB buss and it's 3 prong. And of course, you don't need it on the side that spits out 5/9/12 VDC like you would on an amp running directly off the mains as far as bodily protection goes.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:57 AM   #20
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I was posting on facebook the other day about how weird the hype is surrounding a few of the devices lately, and antelope was one of them. Seemingly out of nowhere, all the usual pimps and suspects were screaming about how awesome the stuff is. I figure there really must have been some marketing blitz or something

They may or may not make cool interfeces, I dont know, but the fact that they're really pushing the audiophile psuedoscience nonsense with their audiophile nonsense priced clocks was pretty telling
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:54 AM   #21
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Thanks for all replies !
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Old 03-17-2018, 03:42 AM   #22
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I've used a number of MOTU interfaces over the years and they're rock solid stable. No exceptions at all. I run them at low latency for live sound work too and they're just perfectly stable. I've used a number of the 896 and 828 models and various aggregate combinations. I haven't used an Ultralite unfortunately. YMMV but the computer downgrade may be to blame here.

I've never heard anything bad about RME. I got more bang for the buck from the Apogee/MOTU combo but the RME products always looked attractive. The analog stages are supposed to be more like Apogee quality than MOTU. On the digital side the RME box usually has one or two really useful features over the similar MOTU model.
Are you using USB or Firewire connection ? Which version of windows , 10 ?
I might give it a last try , i need to buy a firewire pci card to test it..never tried that.
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:55 AM   #23
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I was posting on facebook the other day about how weird the hype is surrounding a few of the devices lately, and antelope was one of them. Seemingly out of nowhere, all the usual pimps and suspects were screaming about how awesome the stuff is. I figure there really must have been some marketing blitz or something

They may or may not make cool interfeces, I dont know, but the fact that they're really pushing the audiophile psuedoscience nonsense with their audiophile nonsense priced clocks was pretty telling
Hey, I love every one of those guys who dropped $8000 on an Antelope master clock.

Without them funding Antelope R&D I would never have got such good value for money in an interface!

On the other side of the fence you have Apogee, who charge much less for their external clocks but have overpriced and underpowered DSP dongles for sale...

I got the Antelope purely for the I/O and quality preamps, for which it is already good value, all marketing and celebrity endorsements aside.
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Old 03-17-2018, 12:03 PM   #24
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Pleased you wrote an affirmative Judders I have an Orpheus
and have never regretted the purchase next one may be an Antelope or another Prism.

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Old 03-17-2018, 01:09 PM   #25
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Are you using USB or Firewire connection ? Which version of windows , 10 ?
I might give it a last try , i need to buy a firewire pci card to test it..never tried that.
Firewire. Everything still works so no reason to consider upgrading to thunderbolt or USB3 or whatever. (Or the TB3/USB3 combo in the USB-C connector that's new and different from anything current.) And I'm still using computers with native firewire ports. I only use OSX at present.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:15 PM   #26
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Firewire. Everything still works so no reason to consider upgrading to thunderbolt or USB3 or whatever. (Or the TB3/USB3 combo in the USB-C connector that's new and different from anything current.) And I'm still using computers with native firewire ports. I only use OSX at present.
sounds like i need to try a firewire pci card!
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Old 03-17-2018, 02:13 PM   #27
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sounds like i need to try a firewire pci card!
I had recurring issues with a FW MR816 in W7. It was mostly okay, but every so often I would get random dropouts etc. (random in the sense that it didn't have anything to do with load or buffer settings), and sometimes Windows would stop seeing the device. I also had a hard time solving a code 10 error after a reinstallation, despite using a highly regarded TI PCIe FW card...

...I subsequently got an unbelievably good deal for a used RME HDSPe AIO card, and now use the MR816 as the breakout box via ADAT. The audio is absolutely pristine, and my experience only suggests that everything everyone says about RME drivers is true. I've never had any of the external RME products, but for low latency and stability, I 100% trust RME.
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:10 PM   #28
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I had recurring issues with a FW MR816 in W7. It was mostly okay, but every so often I would get random dropouts etc. (random in the sense that it didn't have anything to do with load or buffer settings), and sometimes Windows would stop seeing the device. I also had a hard time solving a code 10 error after a reinstallation, despite using a highly regarded TI PCIe FW card...

...I subsequently got an unbelievably good deal for a used RME HDSPe AIO card, and now use the MR816 as the breakout box via ADAT. The audio is absolutely pristine, and my experience only suggests that everything everyone says about RME drivers is true. I've never had any of the external RME products, but for low latency and stability, I 100% trust RME.
Thanks, good advice!
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Old 03-18-2018, 06:55 AM   #29
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That'll fix it, I repaired mine myself, it's just a replacement of the 10 or so capacitors in the PSU. Slight design flaw in that 3rd party PSU where heat over time kills them - electrolytic caps are prone to this by default. Mine only took about 5 years to die but is because it was in a tight rack and powered on 24/7. It works fantastic now and I replaced with industrial grade caps to be sure.
Had a defective 19" Acer x193w (Analog / Digital Input) Display. Watched a video on YouTube and learned how to replace defective power supply capacitors with ones ordered from China. Works great now. Learned capacitance must be the same, however, voltage can be more. Think that's right. A 2nd 19" Acer x193w monitor (analog input only) recently died, yet replacement capacitors didn't have clearance. What a surprise. Same brand. Different design inside. Bought a beautiful 27" Dell digital monitor. Hope my Prism Atlas doesn't go this route!! It's not on 24/7 and it's in a rackshelf (for easy removal) with an empty rackspace above and below for good air flow.

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Old 03-18-2018, 10:00 AM   #30
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Learned capacitance must be the same, however, voltage can be more. Think that's right.
It is right, best to have roughly twice the voltage as is expected to go through it - when they exceed their voltage rating they explode. That little cross or X engraving on top purposely weakens the top of the cap so if it does explode, it's a little more graceful and less debilitating.

Electro caps, simply go bad after time, even if just sitting there... so both time and heat shorten their lifespan. Knowing this, all those devices that mysteriously stop working at all or correctly can often be fixed (routers, switches, monitors, sound cards) by simply replacing the electrolytic caps in them.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:42 PM   #31
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sounds like i need to try a firewire pci card!
A PCIE FW card with Texas instruments chipset, I think. Your Mobo is a z170 so internal ports are PCIE.
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